Are Sikhs Inclined To Bigamy?

[spnadmin]

Balbir ji

You quoted SGGS above as follows

ਕੀਓ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੈ ਤਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਲੀਓ ਸੁਹਾਗਨਿ ਥੂਕ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਈਆ ॥੭॥
कीओ सीगारु मिलण कै ताई प्रभु लीओ सुहागनि थूक मुखि पईआ ॥७॥
kee-o seegaaru milan kai taa-ee parabhu lee-o suhaagan thook mukhi pa-ee-aa. ||7|| SGGS 836-10
Did makeup for the meeting Prabhu accepted Suhaagan receiving Saliva through the mouth.

end quote

I have not found this wording in in any of the commonly used translations. This line also does not appear on Ang 836. In addition, the word "saliva" appears only 1 time in Dasam Granth, and not in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Please in your response do not make any wise cracks or sarcastic rejoinders.

 

[Archived_member2]

Post Deleted

Disrepectful response given. Please observe the forum rules. Rule 1. Respect: Treat all members with the kind of respect that you expect from them in return for yourself. Rule number 5. Karma: Always check your karma and its fruit from participating in this network.

aad0002

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Aad0002 Jee!

Perhaps moderating does not fit your nature.

True Sikhi is lost because of wrong moderators in the past three hundred years.
I do not know which other religion is lost so quickly as the true message of the reverend Gurus for all.

Your role is poor and not worth as it blocks true Satsangs.


Balbir Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Balbir ji

We will then continue to have differing views.

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Aad0002 Jee!

Quote "I have not found this wording in in any of the commonly used translations."
Some people know only translations.
The true Guru's experience is direct.

Quote "This line also does not appear on Ang 836."
Please provide the Ang number where this Vaak appears.

Quote "In addition, the word "saliva" appears only 1 time in Dasam Granth, and not in Sri Guru Granth Sahib."

The words ਥੁਕ (Thuk) or ਥੁਕਾ (Thukaa) occurs many times and the word ਥੂਕ (Thook) occurs two times in Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee.

Thuk and Thook are different. Thuk is that one spits out from the mouth. Thuk is sputum, expectorated matter.
A Naam less person spends life spitting around non sense and receives the same back.

Thook is mucus that protects. It generates protective secretion within and is important for healthy existing.
Thook is true Naam that one realizes in mouth first when God accepts one as Suhaagan.

This is their problem if translators and their followers have not understood Gurdev's Vaak.

Strange, some punjabi translators have ignored the word Thook explaining this Vaak from Gurdev completely.

Has someone gone through the Suhaagan's experience receiving Saliva into your mouth?

**************

Quote "We will then continue to have differing views."
I pray all come to know true Naam Simran. This is the same experience of Truth.


Balbir Singh

 

[Astroboy]

ਕੋਈ ਜਾਇ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਿਨ ਨਿੰਦਕਾ ਮੁਹ ਫਿਕੇ ਥੁਕ ਥੁਕ ਮੁਹਿ ਪਾਹੀ ॥
कोई जाइ मिलै तिन निंदका मुह फिके थुक थुक मुहि पाही ॥
Ko*ī jā*ė milai ṯin ninḏkā muh fikė thuk thuk muhi pāhī.
If someone goes to meet with those dull-faced slanderers, he will find their faces covered with spit.
Guru Ram Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


[/SIZE]ਓਇ ਮੰਗਦੇ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਸਭ ਜਗਤ ਮਹਿ ਕੋਈ ਮੁਹਿ ਥੁਕ ਨ ਤਿਨ ਕਉ ਪਾਹਿ ॥
ओइ मंगदे फिरहि सभ जगत महि कोई मुहि थुक न तिन कउ पाहि ॥
O*ė mangḏė fireh sabẖ jagaṯ meh ko*ī muhi thuk na ṯin ka*o pāhi.
They wander around begging all over the world, but no one even spits in their faces.
Guru Ram Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


[/SIZE]ਭਲਕੇ ਥੁਕ ਪਵੈ ਨਿਤ ਦਾੜੀ ॥
भलके थुक पवै नित दाड़ी ॥
Bẖalkė thuk pavai niṯ ḏāṛī.
The man's beard is spat upon daily.
Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

[/SIZE]ਨਾਨਕ ਏਵੈ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਤਿਤੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਥੁਕਾ ਪਾਹਿ ॥੧॥
नानक एवै जाणीऐ तितु मुखि थुका पाहि ॥१॥
Nānak ėvai jāṇī*ai ṯiṯ mukẖ thukā pāhi. ||1||
O Nanak, know this: such a mouth is to be spat upon. ||1||
Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

 

[drkhalsa]

Dear Balbir Singh ji

Sat Sri Akal!

Quote from Jatinder Singh Jee "May be one Seize to exist as seperate entity after becoming Suhagan of GOD."
Suhaagan is joining ONE.
It is not existing as one separate entity.

I understood your point and what I meant was that the illusion of being seperate goes away on becoming Suhagan

One first sign is that He puts saliva into the mouth of the accepted Suhaagan.
Please listen. Gurdev is singing.

ਕੀਓ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੈ ਤਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਲੀਓ ਸੁਹਾਗਨਿ ਥੂਕ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਈਆ ॥੭॥
कीओ सीगारु मिलण कै ताई प्रभु लीओ सुहागनि थूक मुखि पईआ ॥७॥
kee-o seegaaru milan kai taa-ee parabhu lee-o suhaagan thook mukhi pa-ee-aa. ||7|| SGGS 836-10
Did makeup for the meeting Prabhu accepted Suhaagan receiving Saliva through the mouth.

Has someone gone through the Suhaagan's experience receiving Saliva into your mouth?

I think I am still deviod of such an experience but what I know is that this also is the will of god

Quote "May be when one gets the wisdom of God and God himself it is called being Suhagan so at that stage may be their is no need of two spouses or duality to exist."
How many lives Jeevs have lived expecting? The true Gurus never used the words 'may be'.

God is ONENESS. Duality or numerality is the illusion.

I was using MAY BE because I dont have the xperience of being Suhagan so what I wrote was more of speculation or menatl excercise and not my personal experience


Thanks for your posts


Jatinder Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Bablir ji and other moderators,

I hope no one minds if continue with a non-response other than to thank NamJap for providing translations and Ang for each one.

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Namjap Jee!

Where are the Guru's Vaaks singing about ਥੂਕ (Thook)?


Balbir Singh

 

[Astroboy]

ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਰਸ ਕਸ ਦੁਖੁ ਖਾਵੈ ਮੁਖੁ ਫੀਕਾ ਥੁਕ ਥੂਕ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਈ ॥੩॥
नाम बिना रस कस दुखु खावै मुखु फीका थुक थूक मुखि पाई ॥३॥
Nām binā ras kas ḏukẖ kẖāvai mukẖ fīkā thuk thūk mukẖ pā*ī. ||3||
Without the Naam, the Name of the Lord, one obtains only suffering for his delicacies to eat. His mouth is insipid, and his face is spat upon, again and again. ||3||
ਮਃ 4 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

[/SIZE]ਕੀਓ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੈ ਤਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਲੀਓ ਸੁਹਾਗਨਿ ਥੂਕ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਈਆ ॥੭॥
कीओ सीगारु मिलण कै ताई प्रभु लीओ सुहागनि थूक मुखि पईआ ॥७॥
Kī*o sīgār milaṇ kai ṯā*ī parabẖ lī*o suhāgan thūk mukẖ pa*ī*ā. ||7||
She may adorn herself to meet her Husband Lord, but still, only the virtuous soul-bride meets God, and the other's face is spat upon. ||7||
ਮਃ 4 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

 

[spnadmin]

Here is Dr. Sant Singh's translation.

ਕੀਓ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੈ ਤਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਲੀਓ ਸੁਹਾਗਨਿ ਥੂਕ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਈਆ ॥੭॥
keeou seegaar milan kai thaaee prabh leeou suhaagan thhook mukh peeaa ||7||
She may adorn herself to meet her Husband Lord, but still, only the virtuous soul-bride meets God, and the other's face is spat upon. ||7||

This is Balbir ji's translation.

ਕੀਓ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੈ ਤਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਲੀਓ ਸੁਹਾਗਨਿ ਥੂਕ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਈਆ ॥੭॥
कीओ सीगारु मिलण कै ताई प्रभु लीओ सुहागनि थूक मुखि पईआ ॥७॥
kee-o seegaaru milan kai taa-ee parabhu lee-o suhaagan thook mukhi pa-ee-aa. ||7|| SGGS 836-10
Did makeup for the meeting Prabhu accepted Suhaagan receiving Saliva through the mouth

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Namjap Jee!

Thanks for the wonderful Vaaks from Gurdev.

The translations are strange, in my view.
The translation of the first Vaak referred is "Without the Naam, the Name of the Lord, one obtains only suffering for his delicacies to eat. His mouth is insipid, and his face is spat upon, again and again."
Many are seeking true Naam. Ignorant are not in need of it even. Who is spitting on their face, again and again?
I have never seen somebody spitting on face of others because they were eating delicacies their mouth was insipid. Perhaps I have met persons who have received Naam.

The word ਮੁਖਿ (mukhi) occurs more than two hundred and fifty times in Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee. Every time it means through the mouth. I do not know why the author translates mukhi on the face.
Also, I do not understand why one, according to the translator, obtains delicacies to eat but his mouth is insipid.


Balbir Singh

 

[Astroboy]

Balbir Singh Jee,

So long as your motive is genuine, i.e., you want to understand the writings which point to the eternal bani, then you are a gurmukh because your mukh is faced towards the guru's wisdom.

See the guru vaak being sung in Sri Raag :

ਭਾਉ ਕਲਮ ਕਰਿ ਚਿਤੁ ਲੇਖਾਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਪੁਛਿ ਲਿਖੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
भाउ कलम करि चितु लेखारी गुर पुछि लिखु बीचारु ॥
Bẖā*o kalam kar cẖiṯ lėkẖārī gur pucẖẖ likẖ bīcẖār.
Make the love of the Lord your pen, and let your consciousness be the scribe. Then, seek the Guru's Instructions, and record these deliberations.
Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

 

[drkhalsa]

Here is Dr. Sant Singh's translation.

ਕੀਓ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੈ ਤਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਲੀਓ ਸੁਹਾਗਨਿ ਥੂਕ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਈਆ ॥੭॥
keeou seegaar milan kai thaaee prabh leeou suhaagan thhook mukh peeaa ||7||
She may adorn herself to meet her Husband Lord, but still, only the virtuous soul-bride meets God, and the other's face is spat upon. ||7||

As far as my understanding goes about punjabi, even if we leave the the spat upon thing aside this translation does not make sense to me .

The thing that make situation even worse is that The correct translation is also is beyond my reach so I was avioding to comment on it but could not resist saying iy

 

[spnadmin]

drkhalsa ji

The translation of the line

ਕੀਓ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੈ ਤਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਲੀਓ ਸੁਹਾਗਨਿ ਥੂਕ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਈਆ ॥੭॥
कीओ सीगारु मिलण कै ताई प्रभु लीओ सुहागनि थूक मुखि पईआ ॥७॥
kee-o seegaaru milan kai taa-ee parabhu lee-o suhaagan thook mukhi pa-ee-aa. ||7|| SGGS 836-10
Did makeup for the meeting Prabhu accepted Suhaagan receiving Saliva through the mouth


is very difficult. What makes it difficult are two things: the order of words and the subtlety of some of the verbs used.

The word order requires the translator to find the idea about the soul bride in the middle of the line, and the ideas about the impure spouse have to be connected using ideas from the beginning and end of the line. Thence the translator has to add some English words to the translation to make sense in English.

The verbs used have more than one meaning depending on context. So once again the translator has to make sense from the overall context of the entire shabad.

I am however 100 percent certain that receiving saliva through the mouth is not even close. And Dr. Singh's translation is pretty close, maybe as close as anyone is going to get.

 

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

ਕਹੈ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਕੀਜੈ ਸਭੁ ਬਾਦਿ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਫੋਕਟ ਫੋਕਟਈਆ ॥

ਕੀਓ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੈ ਤਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਲੀਓ ਸੁਹਾਗਨਿ ਥੂਕ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਈਆ ॥੭॥
Kahai parabẖ avar avar kicẖẖ kījai sabẖ bāḏ sīgār fokat fokta*ī*ā. Kī*o sīgār milaṇ kai ṯā*ī parabẖ lī*o suhāgan thūk mukẖ pa*ī*ā. ||7||


When Husband-Lord says one thing, and the soul-bride does (or has been doing) something else, then all her efforts are in vain, useless and false. When she adorns herself to meet her Husband Lord, he takes the virtuous soul-bride, and the other's “faces are spat upon” (will recieve no honour). ||7||




In the above verses Guru ji is telling us that when the mortal disregards the message - the “Hukam” of the Lord and engages in a Manmat exercises i.e. dwells in translations that have no relevance to the original verse (as is noted in this forum and the present thread) their effort and the path they take is fruitless. Those individuals dwelling in their imaginary belief of spiritual height, if they think they will be honoured by the union of the Lord, will be given no regard, only those that have fully understood and assimilated the Hukam will be taken/accepted as a virtuous bride. Just as the Gardener will only pluck the flower that is about the blossom.

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Namjap Jee!

Hearty thanks for referring the wonderful Vaak from Gurdev.

ਭਾਉ ਕਲਮ ਕਰਿ ਚਿਤੁ ਲੇਖਾਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਪੁਛਿ ਲਿਖੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
भाउ कलम करि चितु लेखारी गुर पुछि लिखु बीचारु ॥
Bhaao kalam kari chitu laykhaaree gur pucchi likhu beechaar.

Normally a worldly person knows writing on the paper with a pen guided by the mind.
Gurdev is singing that the consciousness scribe using the moral sense (inner sensation) pen consulting the Gur writes contemplations.

I wonder what some translators are trying to explain Gurbaanee. It seems they have never come to know the true Gur of Naam.

**************

Quote from drkhalsa Jee "The thing that make situation even worse is that The correct translation is also is beyond my reach so I was avioding to comment on it but could not resist saying iy."
Dear Jatinder Singh Jee, People long for God to fulfill their wishes effortlessly. That is why their cosmetic used to attract God is that of a prostitute.
The true seeker recognizes the Offer God and prepares to meet HIM. God recognizes the truthful Seegaar and accepts the Suhaagan. The Suhaagan receives and experiences Thook, The true Naam, in the mouth.

We give out or swallow all that comes up in the mouth again. This may be the breath, also the sound words.

The wisdom of Beej Mantra is already in everyone. With the true Gur it triggers up and rises into the mouth. This is the true Thook Gurdev is singing about.

**************

God marries one. She becomes Suhaagan for ever transcending all the lusts including the lust for bigamy.


Balbir Singh

 

[spnadmin]

kee-o seegaaru milan ka
When she adorns herself to meet her Husband Lord

taa-ee parabhu lee-o suhaagan
he takes the virtuous soul-bride,

thook mukhi pa-ee-aa
and the other's “faces are spat upon” (will recieve no honour). ||7||

Thanks!
We needed that.

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all!

Gurdev calls a bigamist Duhaagan.
Please listen. Gurdev is singing.
ਨਾਨਕ ਝੂਰਿ ਮਰਹਿ ਦੋਹਾਗਣੀ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਅਵਰੀ ਲਾਗਾ ਨੇਹੁ ॥੧॥
नानक झूरि मरहि दोहागणी जिन्ह अवरी लागा नेहु ॥१॥
naanak jhoori marahi duhaaganee jinH avree laagaa nayhu. SGGS Ang 1280-2

Strange is to watch a Sikh living like a Duhaagan. Perhaps he is not a true Sikh. They only dress him up like a Sikh, a bhays-dhaaree Sikh.


Balbir Singh

 

[Astroboy]

ਕਬੀਰ ਚੰਦਨ ਕਾ ਬਿਰਵਾ ਭਲਾ ਬੇੜ੍ਹ੍ਹਿਓ ਢਾਕ ਪਲਾਸ ॥
कबीर चंदन का बिरवा भला बेड़्हिओ ढाक पलास ॥
Kabīr cẖanḏan kā birvā bẖalā bėṛeha­o dẖāk palās.
Kabeer, the sandalwood tree is good, even though it is surrounded by weeds.
ਓਇ ਭੀ ਚੰਦਨੁ ਹੋਇ ਰਹੇ ਬਸੇ ਜੁ ਚੰਦਨ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੧੧॥
ओइ भी चंदनु होइ रहे बसे जु चंदन पासि ॥११॥
O­ė bẖī cẖanḏan ho­ė rahė basė jo cẖanḏan pās. ||11||
Those who dwell near the sandalwood tree, become just like the sandalwood tree. ||11||