Vaho Vaho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar NA KOEEeeeeee..............Bani Guru Guru Hai Bani Vich Bani Amrit Saarey..............Pothee Parmesar ka thaanv..........
I have no problem with this. I concur.
AND DHAN DHAN SACHE PATSHAH DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU RAAM DAAS JI DE PAAVAN BACHAN NE:it is on Panna # 450, If God is not pleased by singing of Him by sound current of Naad- HOW CAN ONE EVEN THINK THAT only naad go forth.....AND DHAN DHAN SACHE PATSHAH DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU NANAK DEV JI DE PAAVAN BACHAN NE:
This is where lack of knowledge stems. Let us see what these verses mean:
koeI gwvY rwgI nwdI bydI bhu Bwiq kir nhI hir hir BIjY rwm rwjy ]
Let us analyse these lines:
Translation by Sant Singh Khalsa
Some sing of the Lord, through musical Ragas and the sound current of the Naad,
Translation by Bhai Manmohan Singh
Some sing Lord God through music, musical instruments and religions books in various ways, but, by these methods, Master, the King is not pleased.
Devine revelation by Bibi Surinder Kaur Cheema
If God is not pleased by singing of Him by sound current of Naad- HOW CAN ONE EVEN THINK THAT only naad go forth.....
Let us now look at the entire shabad
koeI gwvY rwgI nwdI bydI bhu Bwiq kir nhI hir hir BIjY rwm rwjy ]
ijnw AMqir kptu ivkwru hY iqnw roie ikAw kIjY ]
hir krqw sBu ikCu jwxdw isir rog hQu dIjY ]
ijnw nwnk gurmuiK ihrdw suDu hY hir Bgiq hir lIjY ]4]11]18]
Translation by Sant Singh Khalsa
Some sing of the Lord, through musical Ragas and the sound current of the Naad, through the Vedas, and in so many ways. But the Lord, Har, Har, is not pleased by these, O Lord King.Those who are filled with fraud and corruption within - what good does it do for them to cry out?The Creator Lord knows everything, although they may try to hide their sins and the causes of their diseases.O Nanak, those Gurmukhs whose hearts are pure, obtain the Lord, Har, Har, by devotional worship. ||4||11||18||
Bhai Manmohan Singh
Some sing Lord God through music, musical instruments and religions books in various ways, but, by these methods, Master, the King is not pleased. In whom are fraud and sin what good can bewailing do unto them? God, the Creator, knows everything, though man tries to hide his sin or source of disease. The pious persons, whose mind is pure, O Nanak, obtain Lord God's love-worship.
koeI gwvY rwgI nwdI bydI bhu Bwiq kir nhI hir hir BIjY rwm rwjy ]
Some sing the praise of God by Classical Improvisations, some by blowing into a conch, some by reciting Vedas and some by various other methods but that does not appease the all prevading.
ijnw AMqir kptu ivkwru hY iqnw roie ikAw kIjY ]
Those who are filled with fraud and corruption within - what good does it do for them to cry out?
hir krqw sBu ikCu jwxdw isir rog hQu dIjY ]
God, the Creator, knows everything, even if though one may try to hide their sin/source of disease by placing their hand upon it.
ijnw nwnk gurmuiK ihrdw suDu hY hir Bgiq hir lIjY ]4]11]18]
O Nanak, those Gurmukhs whose hearts are pure, worship Har(Lord), are the ones who in essence do the true worship. |
The essence of the Shabad is that when worship is done with an alterior motive/in pretence, our all knowing lord is aware of it and will not be pleased. One should worship with the right mindset, with love, Hirdey naal, Mann laga ke, with the right intentions and NOT WITH PRETENCE.
Now I invite Respected Santokh Singh ji to observe the translations and give his opinion as to whether the claim by Bibi Surinder Kaur Cheema is justified “If God is not pleased by singing of Him by sound current of Naad- HOW CAN ONE EVEN THINK THAT only naad go forth.....” as this being the translation of the tuk in anyway or this shabad in any way backs here claims.
At the same time I would like to invite our Mr Randip Singh to sniff out the same.
Now I will let you all decide who is manipulating Bani to serve their devious means. Is it right to pick isolated sentences out of Gurus Shabad to satisfy the means to their end.
The next shabad Bibi Surinder Kaur Cheema ji puts forward is as follows:
swrMg kI vwr mhlw 4 rwie mhmy hsny kI Duin <> siqgur pRswid ]
slok mhlw 2 ] guru kuMjI pwhU invlu mnu koTw qnu Ciq ] nwnk gur ibnu mn kw qwku n
auGVY Avr n kuMjI hiQ ]1]
mhlw 1 ]
n BIjY rwgI nwdI byid ] n BIjY surqI igAwnI joig ] n BIjY sogI kIqY roij ] n BIjY rUpˆØI mwlˆØI rMig ] n BIjY qIriQ BivAY nµig ] n BIjY dwqˆØI kIqY puMin ] n BIjY bwhir bYiTAw suMin ] n BIjY ByiV mrih iBiV sUr ] n BIjY kyqy hovih DUV ] lyKw ilKIAY mn kY Bwie ] nwnk BIjY swcY nwie ]2] {page 1237}
Translation by Sant Singh Khalsa
The key of the Guru opens the lock of attachment, in the house of the mind, under the roof of the body. O Nanak, without the Guru, the door of the mind cannot be opened. No one else holds the key in hand. ||1||
First Mehl: He is not won over by music, songs or the Vedas. He is not won over by intuitive wisdom, meditation or Yoga. He is not won over by feeling sad and depressed forever. He is not won over by beauty, wealth and pleasures. He is not won over by wandering naked at sacred shrines. He is not won over by giving donations in charity. He is not won over by living alone in the wilderness. He is not won over by fighting and dying as a warrior in battle. He is not won over by becoming the dust of the masses. The account is written of the loves of the mind. O Nanak, the Lord is won over only by His Name. ||2||
Translation by Bhai Manmohan Singh
The body-roofed mind's house is locked with the lock of mammonic attachment and it s key is with the Guru. Nanak, without the Guru, the mind's door is opened not, since the key is in no one else's hand.
1st Guru. The Lord is pleased not by making music, tuning musical instrument and reading the Vedas. Through wisdom, knowledge and Yoga, He is pleased not. The Lord is pleased not by ever felling sorrow. He is pleased not with beauty, wealth and revelments. He is pleased not by wandering naked at the places of pilgrimage. By giving gifts and alms, the Lord is softened not. Sitting outside alone in wilderness, He is softened not. Fighting to death as a warrior in a battle, the Lord is melted not. Becoming the dust of the feet of many, He is melted not. The account of hearty love alone is writ there. O Nanak, if one utters the True Name, the Lord is supremely pleased.
lyKw ilKIAY mn kY Bwie ]
Our account is written based on our real intention. If the worship of the lord is done with pretence, He will not be pleased. To keep doing DHAN DHAN does not mean you will get more browny points from the Guru or will make you more religious. It may only get you praise from the like minded in the forum.
It is again clear that the verses put forward have nothing to do with Naad Dhun. But BIBI SURINDER KAUR CHEEMA thinks so. And she wants us to believe her too.
Jis Sach Nu Tusi Rijha Nahi Sakde Jis Naad Naal Kis Tarah Uh Naad Tuhanu Agge Le Ke Jayaga or will be able to go forth itself......WAHEGURU RAKHA EKMUSAFIR JI, TUSI BANI TO ITNE AJNABI HO...... Maaf Karna
The Sangat can decide for themselves as to who is ajnabi to what Bani Says?
myself, Neechan to vee Neech Haan par jad koi Guru Sahib Di Beadbee kare te sevkaa nu awaaj chuknee paindee hai, ohi koshish hai,
That is my precisely why I challenge some people on this site. I have done that several times to you in the past. But do you learn? No. You keep doing beadbi. You put forward Manmati translations. Translations that have no relevance to the topic in hand. But in your mind it does. Calling youself neech is GHOR PAKHAND. The very Pakhand that Guru ji is referring to in the above Shabad. So very very sad.
only making the issue clear for those who BELIEVE IN GURU JI and trying to understand the truth
Only that mind can think of such a statement " Bani will stay behind Only Naad will go forth." who limits DHAN DHAN GURBANI to mere poetry in some worldly language, Bani is INFINITE mere veer: THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Dhur Kee Bani/Sachi Bani is THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH how can the absolute truth stay behind: GIVE ME ONE EXAMPLE FROM DHAN DHAN GURBANI, PLEASE.
First understand this for yourself. Bani is a stepping ladder to the become SAT (Sachiara) remember your Japji Sahib. When you reach Sat, you merge into SAT, you do not then need the ladder. Bani has solved its purpose in conditioning you, in awakening you and given you the realisation that you are the very SAT. The Lord Himself.
Japji Sahib – Kiv Sachiara hoyea, Kiv koorey tuthey pal. This is the stage of Sachiara one needs to reach that Guru ji is referring to. Once you achieve this, Bani becomes redundant for that individual.
<<<<<<<<<<<<EDITED >>>>>>>>>>>>
Refrain from personal attack on other forum members.
And ITS SUBLIMINAL EFFECT CANNOT BE IMAGINED IN ITS TOTALITY, unlimited time is needed to write that. Only that person can understand it to WHOM HE HIMSELF MAKE IT UNDERSTOOD (BUJHAAEE).
Need I reply to this to you as to who has been made to understand and who is not?
You must have read Dhan Dhan Guru Sahib De Bachan- GUN GAAVAN DEH BHUJHAAEE.......One who understands it with the Divine Bliss hear it in EVERY SOUND, see it in EVERY VISIBLE OR NON VISIBLE THING, feels it in ROM ROM and HAR KINKE CH...........................
So where is this sound/naad/shabad cropped up from that you have been objecting to. Is it confusion or hypocracy? Pakhand?
ALSO ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE ------Bin akhkhee dekhna, bin kanni sunnana............
Have you experienced this? I have.
Parmatma da Daas sadaa hi Parmatma Da Das hi rehnda hai, 'seeker or preacher' these identities are important to those who only 'talk' or 'strongly act to walk the path', a person who walks the true path has NO IDENTITY (CRISIS) ISSUES.
He/She always keeps his/her plate the lowest mere veer. Tusi thokar maro, khillee udavo, gal naal lavo, does that matter!!!! it will only effect the doer, not the subject.....
Gallin Yog na hoye!
EK TUHEE EK TUHEESEVAK NU HAR PAASE MALIK DA HI DIDAAR HUNDA HAI
Pretending to be knowledgeable and to be knowledgeable are two different issues.
You and Randip Singh have the correct making of initiating a new CULT.
A CULT founded on Pretence and Lies.
humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness
This is precisely what Gurus are condemning in the above Shabads. Parkhand.
When the world around you is going crazy, when there is sickness, accidents, sadness, unpredictable and painful events -- and you repeat, read, reflect on just a few lines of Gurbani-- you receive the gift of peace -- every time.
You spend what you earn. This is not the Moto of a Sikh. Sikhi is not based on you scratch my back and I yours. Just like your plea for forgiveness above. First throw up on somebody and then apologise. This is OK in Sikhism? I wonder.
EDITED BY NAMJAP
I have no problem with this. I concur.
AND DHAN DHAN SACHE PATSHAH DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU RAAM DAAS JI DE PAAVAN BACHAN NE:it is on Panna # 450, If God is not pleased by singing of Him by sound current of Naad- HOW CAN ONE EVEN THINK THAT only naad go forth.....AND DHAN DHAN SACHE PATSHAH DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU NANAK DEV JI DE PAAVAN BACHAN NE:
This is where lack of knowledge stems. Let us see what these verses mean:
koeI gwvY rwgI nwdI bydI bhu Bwiq kir nhI hir hir BIjY rwm rwjy ]
Let us analyse these lines:
Translation by Sant Singh Khalsa
Some sing of the Lord, through musical Ragas and the sound current of the Naad,
Translation by Bhai Manmohan Singh
Some sing Lord God through music, musical instruments and religions books in various ways, but, by these methods, Master, the King is not pleased.
Devine revelation by Bibi Surinder Kaur Cheema
If God is not pleased by singing of Him by sound current of Naad- HOW CAN ONE EVEN THINK THAT only naad go forth.....
Let us now look at the entire shabad
koeI gwvY rwgI nwdI bydI bhu Bwiq kir nhI hir hir BIjY rwm rwjy ]
ijnw AMqir kptu ivkwru hY iqnw roie ikAw kIjY ]
hir krqw sBu ikCu jwxdw isir rog hQu dIjY ]
ijnw nwnk gurmuiK ihrdw suDu hY hir Bgiq hir lIjY ]4]11]18]
Translation by Sant Singh Khalsa
Some sing of the Lord, through musical Ragas and the sound current of the Naad, through the Vedas, and in so many ways. But the Lord, Har, Har, is not pleased by these, O Lord King.Those who are filled with fraud and corruption within - what good does it do for them to cry out?The Creator Lord knows everything, although they may try to hide their sins and the causes of their diseases.O Nanak, those Gurmukhs whose hearts are pure, obtain the Lord, Har, Har, by devotional worship. ||4||11||18||
Bhai Manmohan Singh
Some sing Lord God through music, musical instruments and religions books in various ways, but, by these methods, Master, the King is not pleased. In whom are fraud and sin what good can bewailing do unto them? God, the Creator, knows everything, though man tries to hide his sin or source of disease. The pious persons, whose mind is pure, O Nanak, obtain Lord God's love-worship.
koeI gwvY rwgI nwdI bydI bhu Bwiq kir nhI hir hir BIjY rwm rwjy ]
Some sing the praise of God by Classical Improvisations, some by blowing into a conch, some by reciting Vedas and some by various other methods but that does not appease the all prevading.
ijnw AMqir kptu ivkwru hY iqnw roie ikAw kIjY ]
Those who are filled with fraud and corruption within - what good does it do for them to cry out?
hir krqw sBu ikCu jwxdw isir rog hQu dIjY ]
God, the Creator, knows everything, even if though one may try to hide their sin/source of disease by placing their hand upon it.
ijnw nwnk gurmuiK ihrdw suDu hY hir Bgiq hir lIjY ]4]11]18]
O Nanak, those Gurmukhs whose hearts are pure, worship Har(Lord), are the ones who in essence do the true worship. |
The essence of the Shabad is that when worship is done with an alterior motive/in pretence, our all knowing lord is aware of it and will not be pleased. One should worship with the right mindset, with love, Hirdey naal, Mann laga ke, with the right intentions and NOT WITH PRETENCE.
Now I invite Respected Santokh Singh ji to observe the translations and give his opinion as to whether the claim by Bibi Surinder Kaur Cheema is justified “If God is not pleased by singing of Him by sound current of Naad- HOW CAN ONE EVEN THINK THAT only naad go forth.....” as this being the translation of the tuk in anyway or this shabad in any way backs here claims.
At the same time I would like to invite our Mr Randip Singh to sniff out the same.
Now I will let you all decide who is manipulating Bani to serve their devious means. Is it right to pick isolated sentences out of Gurus Shabad to satisfy the means to their end.
The next shabad Bibi Surinder Kaur Cheema ji puts forward is as follows:
swrMg kI vwr mhlw 4 rwie mhmy hsny kI Duin <> siqgur pRswid ]
slok mhlw 2 ] guru kuMjI pwhU invlu mnu koTw qnu Ciq ] nwnk gur ibnu mn kw qwku n
auGVY Avr n kuMjI hiQ ]1]
mhlw 1 ]
n BIjY rwgI nwdI byid ] n BIjY surqI igAwnI joig ] n BIjY sogI kIqY roij ] n BIjY rUpˆØI mwlˆØI rMig ] n BIjY qIriQ BivAY nµig ] n BIjY dwqˆØI kIqY puMin ] n BIjY bwhir bYiTAw suMin ] n BIjY ByiV mrih iBiV sUr ] n BIjY kyqy hovih DUV ] lyKw ilKIAY mn kY Bwie ] nwnk BIjY swcY nwie ]2] {page 1237}
Translation by Sant Singh Khalsa
The key of the Guru opens the lock of attachment, in the house of the mind, under the roof of the body. O Nanak, without the Guru, the door of the mind cannot be opened. No one else holds the key in hand. ||1||
First Mehl: He is not won over by music, songs or the Vedas. He is not won over by intuitive wisdom, meditation or Yoga. He is not won over by feeling sad and depressed forever. He is not won over by beauty, wealth and pleasures. He is not won over by wandering naked at sacred shrines. He is not won over by giving donations in charity. He is not won over by living alone in the wilderness. He is not won over by fighting and dying as a warrior in battle. He is not won over by becoming the dust of the masses. The account is written of the loves of the mind. O Nanak, the Lord is won over only by His Name. ||2||
Translation by Bhai Manmohan Singh
The body-roofed mind's house is locked with the lock of mammonic attachment and it s key is with the Guru. Nanak, without the Guru, the mind's door is opened not, since the key is in no one else's hand.
1st Guru. The Lord is pleased not by making music, tuning musical instrument and reading the Vedas. Through wisdom, knowledge and Yoga, He is pleased not. The Lord is pleased not by ever felling sorrow. He is pleased not with beauty, wealth and revelments. He is pleased not by wandering naked at the places of pilgrimage. By giving gifts and alms, the Lord is softened not. Sitting outside alone in wilderness, He is softened not. Fighting to death as a warrior in a battle, the Lord is melted not. Becoming the dust of the feet of many, He is melted not. The account of hearty love alone is writ there. O Nanak, if one utters the True Name, the Lord is supremely pleased.
lyKw ilKIAY mn kY Bwie ]
Our account is written based on our real intention. If the worship of the lord is done with pretence, He will not be pleased. To keep doing DHAN DHAN does not mean you will get more browny points from the Guru or will make you more religious. It may only get you praise from the like minded in the forum.
It is again clear that the verses put forward have nothing to do with Naad Dhun. But BIBI SURINDER KAUR CHEEMA thinks so. And she wants us to believe her too.
Jis Sach Nu Tusi Rijha Nahi Sakde Jis Naad Naal Kis Tarah Uh Naad Tuhanu Agge Le Ke Jayaga or will be able to go forth itself......WAHEGURU RAKHA EKMUSAFIR JI, TUSI BANI TO ITNE AJNABI HO...... Maaf Karna
The Sangat can decide for themselves as to who is ajnabi to what Bani Says?
myself, Neechan to vee Neech Haan par jad koi Guru Sahib Di Beadbee kare te sevkaa nu awaaj chuknee paindee hai, ohi koshish hai,
That is my precisely why I challenge some people on this site. I have done that several times to you in the past. But do you learn? No. You keep doing beadbi. You put forward Manmati translations. Translations that have no relevance to the topic in hand. But in your mind it does. Calling youself neech is GHOR PAKHAND. The very Pakhand that Guru ji is referring to in the above Shabad. So very very sad.
only making the issue clear for those who BELIEVE IN GURU JI and trying to understand the truth
Only that mind can think of such a statement " Bani will stay behind Only Naad will go forth." who limits DHAN DHAN GURBANI to mere poetry in some worldly language, Bani is INFINITE mere veer: THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Dhur Kee Bani/Sachi Bani is THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH how can the absolute truth stay behind: GIVE ME ONE EXAMPLE FROM DHAN DHAN GURBANI, PLEASE.
First understand this for yourself. Bani is a stepping ladder to the become SAT (Sachiara) remember your Japji Sahib. When you reach Sat, you merge into SAT, you do not then need the ladder. Bani has solved its purpose in conditioning you, in awakening you and given you the realisation that you are the very SAT. The Lord Himself.
Japji Sahib – Kiv Sachiara hoyea, Kiv koorey tuthey pal. This is the stage of Sachiara one needs to reach that Guru ji is referring to. Once you achieve this, Bani becomes redundant for that individual.
<<<<<<<<<<<<EDITED >>>>>>>>>>>>
Refrain from personal attack on other forum members.
And ITS SUBLIMINAL EFFECT CANNOT BE IMAGINED IN ITS TOTALITY, unlimited time is needed to write that. Only that person can understand it to WHOM HE HIMSELF MAKE IT UNDERSTOOD (BUJHAAEE).
Need I reply to this to you as to who has been made to understand and who is not?
You must have read Dhan Dhan Guru Sahib De Bachan- GUN GAAVAN DEH BHUJHAAEE.......One who understands it with the Divine Bliss hear it in EVERY SOUND, see it in EVERY VISIBLE OR NON VISIBLE THING, feels it in ROM ROM and HAR KINKE CH...........................
So where is this sound/naad/shabad cropped up from that you have been objecting to. Is it confusion or hypocracy? Pakhand?
ALSO ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE ------Bin akhkhee dekhna, bin kanni sunnana............
Have you experienced this? I have.
Parmatma da Daas sadaa hi Parmatma Da Das hi rehnda hai, 'seeker or preacher' these identities are important to those who only 'talk' or 'strongly act to walk the path', a person who walks the true path has NO IDENTITY (CRISIS) ISSUES.
He/She always keeps his/her plate the lowest mere veer. Tusi thokar maro, khillee udavo, gal naal lavo, does that matter!!!! it will only effect the doer, not the subject.....
Gallin Yog na hoye!
EK TUHEE EK TUHEESEVAK NU HAR PAASE MALIK DA HI DIDAAR HUNDA HAI
Pretending to be knowledgeable and to be knowledgeable are two different issues.
You and Randip Singh have the correct making of initiating a new CULT.
A CULT founded on Pretence and Lies.
humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness
This is precisely what Gurus are condemning in the above Shabads. Parkhand.
When the world around you is going crazy, when there is sickness, accidents, sadness, unpredictable and painful events -- and you repeat, read, reflect on just a few lines of Gurbani-- you receive the gift of peace -- every time.
You spend what you earn. This is not the Moto of a Sikh. Sikhi is not based on you scratch my back and I yours. Just like your plea for forgiveness above. First throw up on somebody and then apologise. This is OK in Sikhism? I wonder.
EDITED BY NAMJAP
Last edited by a moderator:
