• Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

'Begging' In Gurbani

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
Guru Amardas ji Ang 586/7

Does Gurbani encourage begging? Or does it encourage finding one's spiritual center within the hukam of one's own present circumstances?

I am seeking an answer to a work-related question. After 3 long distance phone calls to Washington, things turned confusing. An answering service for the wrong organization picked up my calls for the organization I was actually trying to reach just after 9 am. Then, I made 3 more calls, and the correct party answered but transferred me to voice mail. I am still waiting for 3 return answers. I made a final call to Pittsburgh where the advice I received was just as uncertain as my own thinking on the problem. It was time for a break.

I take hukamnama.

The pauree is the hukamnama I took this morning. Not for physical, emotional or spiritual pain. Not for spiritual or emotional confusion. I was feeling just fine, except for one thing. My brain was just not working.


ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੩ ॥
Salok mėhlā 3.
Shalok, Third Mehl:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਭੁਖ ਗਈ ਭੇਖੀ ਭੁਖ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
Saṯgur mili▫ai bẖukẖ ga▫ī bẖekẖī bẖukẖ na jā▫e.
Meeting with the True Guru, hunger departs; by wearing the robes of a beggar, hunger does not depart.

Gurbani does not encourage "begging."

ਦੁਖਿ ਲਗੈ ਘਰਿ ਘਰਿ ਫਿਰੈ ਅਗੈ ਦੂਣੀ ਮਿਲੈ ਸਜਾਇ ॥
Ḏukẖ lagai gẖar gẖar firai agai ḏūṇī milai sajā▫e.
Afflicted with pain, he wanders from house to house, and in the world hereafter, he receives double punishment.

That is me wandering from department to department and org to org becoming confused and frustrated. I was frustrated because a work-related problem needs an answer which has been hard to get. And was losing focus.

ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਹਜੁ ਨ ਆਇਓ ਸਹਜੇ ਹੀ ਲੈ ਖਾਇ ॥
Anḏar sahj na ā▫i▫o sėhje hī lai kẖā▫e.
Peace does not come to his heart - he is not content to eat what comes his way.

The shabad comes my way and settles my mind.

ਮਨਹਠਿ ਜਿਸ ਤੇ ਮੰਗਣਾ ਲੈਣਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਮਨਾਇ ॥
Manhaṯẖ jis ṯe mangṇā laiṇā ḏukẖ manā▫e.
With his stubborn mind, he begs, and grabs, and annoys those who give.

In this case, I am annoying myself more than anyone else.


ਇਸੁ ਭੇਖੈ ਥਾਵਹੁ ਗਿਰਹੋ ਭਲਾ ਜਿਥਹੁ ਕੋ ਵਰਸਾਇ ॥
Is bẖekẖai thāvhu girho bẖalā jithahu ko varsā▫e.
Instead of wearing these beggar's robes, it is better to be a householder, and give to others.

I have yet today to do this but will help anyone today whose brain is similarly spent.


ਸਬਦਿ ਰਤੇ ਤਿਨਾ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਈ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਇ ॥
Sabaḏ raṯe ṯinā sojẖī pa▫ī ḏūjai bẖaram bẖulā▫e.
Those who are attuned to the Word of the Shabad, acquire understanding; the others wander, deluded by doubt.

Never has the shabad failed me in problems large and looming or small. As of this moment I am not certain whether the problem at work will straighten itself out. Everything depends on regulations coming from a national organization that has not been helpful so far. At this moment I am content to wait.


ਪਇਐ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਕਮਾਵਣਾ ਕਹਣਾ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
Pa▫i▫ai kiraṯ kamāvaṇā kahṇā kacẖẖū na jā▫e.
They act according to their past actions; it is useless to talk to them.

It is useless for me to pound away at the problem. The confusion will continue or I can chose to be patient.


ਨਾਨਕ ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵਹਿ ਸੇ ਭਲੇ ਜਿਨ ਕੀ ਪਤਿ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਥਾਇ ॥੧॥
Nānak jo ṯis bẖāvėh se bẖale jin kī paṯ pāvahi thā▫e. ||1||
O Nanak, those who are pleasing unto the Lord are good; He upholds their honor. ||1||

Things are not the "end-of-the-world." This like all other work-related questions will solve itself the way such things are meant to be solved. This is out of my control. The Guru settles all affairs. No need for me to dishonor myself with frantic thinking or by making demands on others.


I decided to take hukam because often the shabad will focus my attention and filter out scattered thoughts. Later then I am able to concentrate on things. So interesting that the pauree is related to this thread in spite of the fact I wasn't even thinking about this thread at the time! :) Cool~
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
sat sri akaal Admin ji ,


The Shabad you quoted above is totally unrelated to present discussion :geeksingh:.


Guru Nanak's blessings continued to the end of the day. Later because of a different problem at work, and one that is about 4 years standing, I finally realized its cause, and how it worsened over time. I discovered the meaning of the "narrative of the powerless." Because of this, I can now understand why splinter groups in the quom bicker amongst themselves and undermine one another in full view of an overbearing and powerful challenger that is very real. Now I understand why this has transpired since the partition. Call it maya; the narrative is nonetheless real and the pain is real. The narrative is the tale of those who feel powerless but do not know how to change their narrative except by consuming each other. This understanding changed my outlook in many ways. Something to think about.
 

Luckysingh

Writer
SPNer
Dec 3, 2011
1,634
2,758
Vancouver
ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਭੁਖ ਗਈ ਭੇਖੀ ਭੁਖ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
Saṯgur mili▫ai bẖukẖ ga▫ī bẖekẖī bẖukẖ na jā▫e.
Meeting with the True Guru, hunger departs; by wearing the robes of a beggar, hunger does not depart.
Gurbani does not encourage "begging."

Adminji, I'm afraid that i may disagree a little here.
Sorry !!..............:peacesign:.........It's just that i perceive the shabad a little differently.
I try and be careful to ''Not'' jump the mark and make assumptions too early, since i have made this mistake previously many times !!!!

I wouldn't jump to say that 'Gurbani does NOT encourage begging' too easily here.
I see that the 'wearing of the robes of beggar' is the key here. Since this tells me that ''One is dressed outwardly as beggar'' but inwardly they are not begging at all.
It seems to point more towards the ignorant display of begging that one may show, without the true intentions and focus of begging being there.

Begging is about total humility and dropping of your ego in order to get closer to the divine lord. Begging for worldly or maya influences is not the begging i have in mind, as this is itself the ''dressed' begging as in the shabad.

Waheguru
:winkingmunda:
 
Nov 14, 2008
283
419
ਇਸੁ ਭੇਖੈ ਥਾਵਹੁ ਗਿਰਹੋ ਭਲਾ ਜਿਥਹੁ ਕੋ ਵਰਸਾਇ ॥
Is bẖekẖai thāvhu girho bẖalā jithahu ko varsā▫e.

Instead of wearing these beggar's robes, it is better to be a householder, and give to others.
the Shabad above ,quoted by admin ji is abt person who left householders life and beggs alms for survival from others.


begging from Waheguru ji for spiritual wisdom is saperate issue and its encouraged on nearly every Ang of Guru Granth Sahib ji .
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
the Shabad above ,quoted by admin ji is abt person who left householders life and beggs alms for survival from others.


begging from Waheguru ji for spiritual wisdom is saperate issue and its encouraged on nearly every Ang of Guru Granth Sahib ji .

harmanpreet singh jio

You have not yet given us your vichaar of the shabad which I so graciously posted for you (see Shabad in green). Your one-liner was a violation of TOS, and I posted it for you even after you rudely commented on my lack of intelligence. You have not shown how the shabad shows Gurbani encourages begging. You have only made a declaration that it does.

It would be a good idea to go back and explain what the shabad is saying. Even here a comparison of shabads would be helpful. This is not a thread that flourishes under pendu style of written expression. There are other forums that would welcome that kind of talk. Thank you.
 
Last edited:

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
harmanpreet singh ji

I have deleted your last reply for a number of reasons. First, however, maybe you forgot that the shabad I asked you about was on the first page of this thread. I am now asking for the 3rd time. Here it is again with your comment.


Your comment

Quote:
Originally Posted by harmanpreet singh View Post
ya mangai means "to beg","to ask" . acc to my understanding of Gurmat its should be encouraged .

"Aaath pehar kar jor raho tau bhete har rai ri ".
Harmanprret singh ji

My comment

We need the entire shabad to understand your point - i.e., how Gurmat encourages begging. I am unable to locate the tuk given in transliteration, without an Ang number.

Thank you

Never mind I found it. But I do not see anything about begging. Ang 400


ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Āsā mėhlā 5.
Aasaa, Fifth Mehl:

ਸੰਤਾ ਕੀ ਹੋਇ ਦਾਸਰੀ ਏਹੁ ਅਚਾਰਾ ਸਿਖੁ ਰੀ ॥
Sanṯā kī ho▫e ḏāsrī ehu acẖārā sikẖ rī.
Become the servant of the Saints, and learn this way of life.

ਸਗਲ ਗੁਣਾ ਗੁਣ ਊਤਮੋ ਭਰਤਾ ਦੂਰਿ ਨ ਪਿਖੁ ਰੀ ॥੧॥
Sagal guṇā guṇ ūṯmo bẖarṯā ḏūr na pikẖ rī. ||1||
Of all virtues, the most sublime virtue is to see your Husband Lord near at hand. ||1||

ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਸੁੰਦਰਿ ਆਪਣਾ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਮਜੀਠੈ ਰੰਗਿ ਰੀ ॥
Ih man sunḏar āpṇā har nām majīṯẖai rang rī.
So, dye this mind of yours with the color of the Lord's Love.

ਤਿਆਗਿ ਸਿਆਣਪ ਚਾਤੁਰੀ ਤੂੰ ਜਾਣੁ ਗੁਪਾਲਹਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Ŧi▫āg si▫āṇap cẖāṯurī ṯūʼn jāṇ gupālėh sang rī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Renounce cleverness and cunning, and know that the Sustainer of the world is with you. ||1||Pause||

ਭਰਤਾ ਕਹੈ ਸੁ ਮਾਨੀਐ ਏਹੁ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਬਣਾਇ ਰੀ ॥
Bẖarṯā kahai so mānī▫ai ehu sīgār baṇā▫e rī.
Whatever your Husband Lord says, accept that, and make it your decoration.

ਦੂਜਾ ਭਾਉ ਵਿਸਾਰੀਐ ਏਹੁ ਤੰਬੋਲਾ ਖਾਇ ਰੀ ॥੨॥
Ḏūjā bẖā▫o visārī▫ai ehu ṯambolā kẖā▫e rī. ||2||
Forget the love of duality, and chew upon this betel leaf. ||2||

ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਰਿ ਦੀਪਕੋ ਇਹ ਸਤ ਕੀ ਸੇਜ ਬਿਛਾਇ ਰੀ ॥
Gur kā sabaḏ kar ḏīpko ih saṯ kī sej bicẖẖā▫e rī.
Make the Word of the Guru's Shabad your lamp, and let your bed be Truth.

ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਕਰ ਜੋੜਿ ਰਹੁ ਤਉ ਭੇਟੈ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇ ਰੀ ॥੩॥
Āṯẖ pahar kar joṛ rahu ṯa▫o bẖetai har rā▫e rī. ||3||
Twenty-four hours a day, stand with your palms pressed together, and the Lord, your King, shall meet you. ||3||

ਤਿਸ ਹੀ ਚਜੁ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਸਭੁ ਸਾਈ ਰੂਪਿ ਅਪਾਰਿ ਰੀ ॥
Ŧis hī cẖaj sīgār sabẖ sā▫ī rūp apār rī.
She alone is cultured and embellished, and she alone is of incomparable beauty.

ਸਾਈ ਸਹਾਗਣਿ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜੋ ਭਾਣੀ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ ਰੀ ॥੪॥੧੬॥੧੧੮॥
Sā▫ī sohagaṇ nānkā jo bẖāṇī karṯār rī. ||4||16||118||
She alone is the happy soul-bride, O Nanak, who is pleasing to the Creator Lord. ||4||16||118||


Please explain because you may be seeing something that I am missing, and that makes a difference in solving this puzzle.

Here you are changing your tune

the Shabad above ,quoted by admin ji is abt person who left householders life and beggs alms for survival from others.


begging from Waheguru ji for spiritual wisdom is saperate issue and its encouraged on nearly every Ang of Guru Granth Sahib ji .

Did you decide that you over-spoke in earlier comments?

To quote respected forum member Tejwant Singh ji, "We are all learners." "We are here to learn." So I am politely asking, please give us your vichaar of the shabad in green, now that I have re-posted it for you a second time. You were saying that particular shabad encouraged begging. How does it encourage begging?


Don't switch to a different shabad. It looks like a mind game. Learning depends on being honest with one another.

Please always post Gurmukhi with English so that all can check to make sure the translation is close to the Punjabi version.


More mind play; an infraction will follow as a first step.
 
Nov 14, 2008
283
419
Sat sri akaal Admin ji ,


As per my understanding of Gurbani , Gurbani encourages us to beg "NAAM" day and night from Waheguru ji . the very first Tuk that entered my mind on seeing this thread was

"Aaath pehar kar jor raho tau bhete har rai ri "
ie
ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਕਰ ਜੋੜਿ ਰਹੁ ਤਉ ਭੇਟੈ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇ ਰੀ ॥੩॥
Āṯẖ pahar kar joṛ rahu ṯa▫o bẖetai har rā▫e rī. ||3||
Twenty-four hours a day, stand with your palms pressed together, and the Lord, your King, shall meet you. ||3||




"palms pressed togather " in Gurbani is associated with begging , and several other Gurbani Shabads conveys the same meaning .

I have deleted content that veers from the question. Thank you for making a start. spnadmin
 

Luckysingh

Writer
SPNer
Dec 3, 2011
1,634
2,758
Vancouver
Harmanpreetji, I appreciate you reply and can see what you mean but may be you have realized or not, this is not about begging at all, unless you are looking at it very superficially.

The shabad in question makes me imagine the scenario of the soul-bride/wife at home waiting for husband lord.

I will start half way down with some of the keywords that strike me and will try and explain. I know this shabad isn't the core of the topic concerned, but i couldn't help notice some appealing gems in the tuks so I thought i would share.

ਭਰਤਾ ਕਹੈ ਸੁ ਮਾਨੀਐ ਏਹੁ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਬਣਾਇ ਰੀ ॥
Bẖarṯā kahai so mānī▫ai ehu sīgār baṇā▫e rī.
Whatever your Husband Lord says, accept that, and make it your decoration.

The decoration is to be accepting whatever husband says. If he says I want this to eat when i get home, I want extra blanket and pillows...blah ..blah, then when he comes home he will look at his wife and subconsciously see or wish for all these demands to be bursting from the sides like little cartoon bubbles !
Hence, she is decorated in his demands and wishes.

ਦੂਜਾ ਭਾਉ ਵਿਸਾਰੀਐ ਏਹੁ ਤੰਬੋਲਾ ਖਾਇ ਰੀ ॥੨॥
Ḏūjā bẖā▫o visārī▫ai ehu ṯambolā kẖā▫e rī. ||2||
Forget the love of duality, and chew upon this betel leaf. ||2||

Forget about any others or being in love with duality(maya), but chewing the betel leaf makes the womens lips attractive/sexy colour which she would do for her husband/lord. (Similar to nowadays evening fragrance of coco chanel!!)

ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਰਿ ਦੀਪਕੋ ਇਹ ਸਤ ਕੀ ਸੇਜ ਬਿਛਾਇ ਰੀ ॥
Gur kā sabaḏ kar ḏīpko ih saṯ kī sej bicẖẖā▫e rī.
Make the Word of the Guru's Shabad your lamp, and let your bed be Truth.

The wife would wait ready with a lamp to help light and guide the way to the bed that waits for husband. Shabad/word of guru is the lamp that leads to the bed of Truth.
I like this because it strongly says Guru shabad LEADS to the Truth and also that the LAMP will lead to enlightenment
since; Lighting up the mind = Enlightenment, quite simply !!

ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਕਰ ਜੋੜਿ ਰਹੁ ਤਉ ਭੇਟੈ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇ ਰੀ ॥੩॥l
Āṯẖ pahar kar joṛ rahu ṯa▫o bẖetai har rā▫e rī. ||3||
Twenty-four hours a day, stand with your palms pressed together, and the Lord, your King, shall meet you. ||3||
This line, the one in question is the soul-bride waiting with palms pressed together 24/7, which says that she waits ''beck and call'' like a servant to the master, ready to serve anything. Therefore, soul-bride is not begging, but prepared to provide whatever service husband lord may request.
You could say she is begging for attention, so that she can offer he undivided attention, or is begging for her husband to question or ask her, but this is not the same as 'manganar or mangai' begging.


ਤਿਸ ਹੀ ਚਜੁ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਸਭੁ ਸਾਈ ਰੂਪਿ ਅਪਾਰਿ ਰੀ ॥
Ŧis hī cẖaj sīgār sabẖ sā▫ī rūp apār rī.
She alone is cultured and embellished, and she alone is of incomparable beauty.

ਸਾਈ ਸਹਾਗਣਿ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜੋ ਭਾਣੀ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ ਰੀ ॥੪॥੧੬॥੧੧੮॥
Sā▫ī sohagaṇ nānkā jo bẖāṇī karṯār rī. ||4||16||118||
She alone is the happy soul-bride, O Nanak, who is pleasing to the Creator Lord. ||4||16||118||

Only that soul bride that has all the qualities and is decorated(remember the cartoon bubbles above!), is the one with unlimited beauty. And she alone is the one that is pleasing to the Lord with all the qualities that he may wish for.
 
Nov 14, 2008
283
419
Lucky ji

my posts here are generally edited or deleted ,for the reasons best known to moderators here .


ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਕਰ ਜੋੜਿ ਰਹੁ ਤਉ ਭੇਟੈ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇ ਰੀ ॥੩॥l
Āṯẖ pahar kar joṛ rahu ṯa▫o bẖetai har rā▫e rī. ||3||
Twenty-four hours a day, stand with your palms pressed together, and the Lord, your King, shall meet you. ||3||
This line, the one in question is the soul-bride waiting with palms pressed together 24/7, which says that she waits ''beck and call'' like a servant to the master, ready to serve anything. Therefore, soul-bride is not begging, but prepared to provide whatever service husband lord may request.
You could say she is begging for attention, so that she can offer he undivided attention, or is begging for her husband to question or ask her, but this is not the same as 'manganar or mangai' begging.
its normal to have different interpretation of Gurbani , to you "palm pressed to togather 24/7" mean waiting "beck and call " ,to me "begging for darshan" appears more suitable .
ie why i quoted another shabad (there are numerous ) that associated "palm pressed togather" with mangai or begging directly, that was deleted by moderators here its again

ਚਰਣ ਧੂੜਿ ਤੇਰੇ ਜਨ ਕੀ ਹੋਵਾ ਤੇਰੇ ਦਰਸਨ ਕਉ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਈ ॥
Cẖaraṇ ḏẖūṛ ṯere jan kī hovā ṯere ḏarsan ka▫o bal jā▫ī.
May I become the dust of the feet of Your humble servants. I am a sacrifice to the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan.
ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਚਨ ਰਿਦੈ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰੀ ਤਉ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਸੰਗੁ ਪਾਈ ॥੨॥
Amriṯ bacẖan riḏai ur ḏẖārī ṯa▫o kirpā ṯe sang pā▫ī. ||2||
I enshrine Your Ambrosial Word within my heart. By Your Grace, I have found the Company of the Holy. ||2||
ਅੰਤਰ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਤੁਧੁ ਪਹਿ ਸਾਰੀ ਤੁਧੁ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥
Anṯar kī gaṯ ṯuḏẖ pėh sārī ṯuḏẖ jevad avar na ko▫ī.
I place the state of my inner being before You; there is no other as great as You.
ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਲਾਇ ਲੈਹਿ ਸੋ ਲਾਗੈ ਭਗਤੁ ਤੁਹਾਰਾ ਸੋਈ ॥੩॥
Jis no lā▫e laihi so lāgai bẖagaṯ ṯuhārā so▫ī. ||3||
He alone is attached, whom You attach; he alone is Your devotee. ||3||
ਦੁਇ ਕਰ ਜੋੜਿ ਮਾਗਉ ਇਕੁ ਦਾਨਾ ਸਾਹਿਬਿ ਤੁਠੈ ਪਾਵਾ ॥
Ḏu▫e kar joṛ māga▫o ik ḏānā sāhib ṯuṯẖai pāvā.
With my palms pressed together, I beg for this one gift; O my Lord and Master, if it pleases You, I shall obtain it.
ਸਾਸਿ ਸਾਸਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਰਾਧੇ ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵਾ ॥੪॥੯॥੫੬॥
Sās sās Nānak ārāḏẖe āṯẖ pahar guṇ gāvā. ||4||9||56||
With each and every breath, Nanak adores You; twenty-four hours a day, I sing Your Glorious Praises. ||4||9||56||
 
📌 For all latest updates, follow the Official Sikh Philosophy Network Whatsapp Channel:

Latest Activity

Top