Bhagats Bhakt Ravidas Being Called SatGuru Ravidas

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Roop Ji,
You have not misunderstood..its my.."shortcoming"... when I wrote ENDORSED..it doesnt mean that the other Gurus are 'checking" on Guur nanak jis choice..what i meant is that whatever Guru Nanak JI CHOSE as GURBANI..Guru Arjun Ji sahib copied all that as it was without nay alterations/additions/removals etc in the AAD Granth (Pothi sahib). Then when GURU Gobind Singh Ji had to REWRITE the AAD Granth as SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI in order to complete it by adding the Gurbani of Guru Teg Bahadur Ji..then also Guru Gobind Singh Ji left everything coming earlier as it was. Guur Arjun Ji ahd the powers and perogrative to REMOVE or ADD nay banis..when He was havign the Aad Garnth beign written and bound..and so did Guru gobind Singh ji have the same powers as a GURU...BUT they didnt change anything.

2. SGGS and AAD GRANTH have this major difference that the Former has the Gurbani of Guru teg bahadur Ji included...but the wonderful thing is that Guru Teg bahadur Ji wrote GURBANI in ALL 31 Raags....and thus His Gurbani is NOT just at the "END" ( as the LAST GURU contributor as would normally be the case with an ordinary book)..but we find Mehalla nauvaan Gurbani spread out ALL OVER the SGGS...in every Raag and the last Jaijawnati Raag is only used by Guru teg bahadur Ji...so He not only used ALL the previous 30 Rags used by all the others in SGGS..Guru Teg bahadur Ji Uchared Gurbani in a Completely NEW Raag as well !!

3. THIS fact effectively means thta Guru Gobind Singh Ji went through the ENTIRE SGGS, carefully placing the relevant Gurbani in all the correct places follwoing the EXACT FORMULA that Guru Arjun ji used in the compilation. That is Gurbani by Mehalla Pehla..dooja, teeja chautha, panjvaan and nauvaan..then Bhagt bani of Shiromani Bhagt Kabir Ji..then the others...etc etc..EACH RAAG follows this METHODOLOGY exactly. Guur Gobind Singh ji followed the lead set by Guru Arjun Ji sahib. THUS there is no possibility that Guru Gobind Singh Ji wanted to incorporate His Gurbani (if any) into the SGGS...as He would have definitely followed the earlier NANAK CHHAAP and Mehalla Dasvaan methodology. Since NO SUCH Gurbani exists INSIDE SGGS, it logically follows that Guru Gobind Singh ji never wrote any GURBANI for SGGS. WHatever he may have or may not have written is OUTSIDE the GURU SGGS and is out of GURBANI SCOPE as the GURBANI of SGGS stands. Those who argue do it needlessly.

2. IF we read SGGS carefully we will not fail to notice one most important fact.
This is that GURU NANAK JI SAHIB is the FOUNDER GURU...the AAD GURU...and whatever He wrote..the Following GURU SAHIBAANS..expanded on, explained some more in detail..expounded.... Thus the use of the Nanak Chhaap...to show this in practical terms..ALL are same GURU NANAK JYOT. And the other contributors whose Banis were chosen also are in complete agreement with Guru Nanak ji....whatever was NOT IN SYNC..( even though written by Bhgat Kabir Ji or Bahgat ravidass Ji for example) was REJECTED and NOT INCLUDED IN SGGS. WE should abide by GURU NANAK JIS CHOICE. Others are free to do as they please...we follow our GURU ONLY. Period.

Hope this clarification helps jios..no offense intended or taken..we are all equal SIKHS.

 

[roopsidhu]

Ssa,
thanks giani ji,
possitive discussion are always constructive in nature and so are yours, i am sure will help spreading the message of gurbani further.
Thanks again
roopsidhu

 

[spnadmin]

So in conclusion - Sant Ravidaas is not SatGuru.

 

[roopsidhu]

SSA,
Giani ji has quoted ( but the wonderful thing is that Guru Teg bahadur Ji wrote GURBANI in ALL 31 Raags)
What I have read about gurbani of Guru Teg Bahader JI, its in 15 ragas. Giani ji have written that its in 31 ragas. to update my information, can someone help me by providing data regarding this. As per my information Bani of Guru Teg Bahader ji is in raag, Gauri, aasa, devgandhari, bihagara , sorath, dhanasari, jaitsari, todi, tilang, bilawal, ramkali, maru, basant, sarang and jaijaiwanti only. If it is in 31 ragas then please give the supporting data to update/ correct my information.
I understand that this is off the track topic in this thread but the question has came up from the same thread discussions.
Sorry for any inconvenience.
Bhul chuk maaf
Roopsidhu

 

[roopsidhu]

Narayanjot kaur ji
ssa
raag basantand basant hindol comes under one raag only ( as per sggs ji )
slok is not a raag but a particular type of kaav roop ( shand)
hence guru teg bahader ji wrote gurbani in 15 raags.
Also giani were not refering to jyot of 9th master in all raags because he wrote that the raag jaijaiwanti has only 9th guru's bani. Still i appreciate your feelings for giani ji sahib while writing your views.
I am not writing this as an agrument but just to make sure about my knowlege of sggs ji.
Bhul chuk maaf
roop sidhu

 

[Admin]

Let us not speculate but wait for Gyani Ji to put some light on this... i am curious too...

 

[BhagatSingh]

SatSriAkal everyone
I was listening to the radio today and i heard that some gurudawaras and people were celebrating Bhakt Ravidas's birthday. Also the guy announcing on the radio called him SatGuru Ravidas. I also found out from a few people that many people are refereing to Bhakt Ravidas as SatGuru Ravidas. I just wanna know if anyone knows about this and what you think about this. I don't it's right to refer to him as SatGuru.

Interesting...
Do you think its right to refer to Guru Nanak as SATguru Nanak?

 

[eropa234]

Interesting...
Do you think its right to refer to Guru Nanak as SATguru Nanak?

Great Question. I will look for your response as well. I have answered this question.

Thanks

 

[spnadmin]

Let us not speculate but wait for Gyani Ji to put some light on this... i am curious too...

I recently posted direct links from searchgurbani.com to banee in Sri Guru Granth Sahib by Guru Teg Bahadur. I also indicated that Gyani ji most likely did not mean "31 raags" literally. Since this is causing some anxiety for some members, I have deleted both posts.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Guru Piayario Jios,
Apologies. What i really meant to say is that out of all the 31 Raags the Final One Raag Jaijawanti - meaning SPIRITUAL VICTORY is ONLY used by Guru Teg Bahadur Ji and no other Guru Sahibs.
Sorry for any confusion jios.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Great Question. I will look for your response as well. I have answered this question.

Thanks

None of the Guru sahibs referred to themsleves as Guru or bhagat or even sant.whatever Titles..NO NO NO. Just NUMBERS !! Mehalla Pehla dooja teeja etc. No body ever does this..in PRISON this is done to humiliate and break down the human spirit..and done forcibly. The ordinary human is not even satisfied with just the plain "name"..we add our Jaat..goth...degrees whatever to show our "superioirty..gretaness..achievements..etc etc thats HAUMAII and everyone has it..except the GURUS.
THe Bhagats also didnt have any haumaii...the title "bhagat" is chosen by Guru Ji to show that this particular bani is by this author. For themsleves they chose Mehalla pehla nd the common signature NANAK..but this rule couldnt be used for the other contributors..so we have bhagats, bhatts,, and sehikh Farid ji and others named as well. I have no hesitation to say that in my opinion Bhagat Kabir ji or ravidass ji wouldnt have insisted on being called Bhagat !! No way.
Guur Nanak ji is SATGURU to the successor Gurus as He is their Founder..aad guru..jyot manifested.

 

[Bmandur]

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh.

The Bhagat Ravidass whose Sacred bani is in the GURU GRANTH JI is a Bhagat to all Sikhs. ( One of the Main reasons Ravidass is famous today is also due to the fact that his Bani is preserved via inclusion in Guru Granth Ji Sahib )

However a few (in fact quite a lot) misguided people have sought to GLORIFY the CASTE of Bhagat Ji and build Gurdwaras after his Caste, and attempted to allevate him to GURU and SATGURU. This is totally wrong as our Guru Ji calls him BHAGAT..and thats what He is for us. These people have even coined a new word for their caste..RAVIDASSIAHS....( normally called chumaars - leather craftsmen and carriers of dead animals carcasses etc).
This si agian agaisnt Gurmatt as GURMATT of GURBANI bans all CASTES.

I do agree with Gyani Jarnail Singh ji
We did Gurmat Crash course on Sikh Bhagats Part1 & Part 2. It is very important to remeber all our Bhagats from Guru Granth Sahib ji but when we see the Gurudwara names by Bhagat Ravidas ji they just..........
Gurfateh
Binder K Mandur

 

[roopsidhu]

Giyani ji quoted
2. Sri Guru Granth Sahib and AAD GRANTH have this major difference that the Former has the Gurbani of Guru teg bahadur Ji included...but the wonderful thing is that Guru Teg bahadur Ji wrote GURBANI in ALL 31 Raags....and thus His Gurbani is NOT just at the "END" (as the LAST GURU contributor as would normally be the case with an ordinary book).. and the last Jaijawnati Raag is only used by Guru teg bahadur Ji...so He not only used ALL the previous 30 Rags used by all the others in Sri Guru Granth Sahib..Guru Teg bahadur Ji Uchared Gurbani in a Completely NEW Raag as well !!
Guru Piayario Jios,
Apologies. What i really meant to say is that out of all the 31 Raags the Final One Raag Jaijawanti - meaning SPIRITUAL VICTORY is ONLY used by Guru Teg Bahadur Ji and no other Guru Sahibs

Respected giyani ji,
I always regard you as the best scholer of sikhism in these threads and that is due to your views about sikhism and your fantastic command over english language.
Your reply........
anyways thanks giyani ji, scholers like yourself are role models for many of us.
Roopsidhu

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Guru Piayario Jios,
I missed out a few words due to an interruption to the flow of thought.
Again a sincere apology for any misunderstanding caused.

1. The AAD GRANTH was compiled and bound under the personal direction of Guru Arjan Ji Sahib. Guru Arjan Ji USED 30 out of 31 Raags used in SGGS. Guru Arjan Ji is also the most prolific contributor of Gurbani...true to the Blessings of Guru amardass Ji given to Him as a crawling toddler..Bani Ka Bohitha..SHIP OF GURBANI !! Thus the AAD Granth had only 30 Raags while the SGGS has 31. The New additional Raag Jaijawnati is by Guru teg bahadur Ji, the Last contributor of Gurbani.

2. Technically it is Guru Teg Bahadur Ji that is the last contributor to Gurbani recorded in the SGGS. It was left to Guru Gobind Singh Ji to recompile and Bind the SGGS into the Damdami Bir so that Gurgadee could be passed on in 1708.

3. Concept of MIRI-PIRI..is Complete in SGGS as this is our COMPLETE GURU. Soora so pehchanniyeh is by Bhagat KABIR JI..who precedes even Guru nanak Ji and its Guru ji that chose this shabd for inclusion in SGGS as it is in perfect sync with girmatt that was to be propounded by the SIKH GURUS later on. Guur nanak stood up to be counted..rasied a very LOUD VOICE against tyranny, injustice, corruption...called the rajjeh sheehn lions and the justice offcials KUTTEH dogs !! Because the Kazis sold justice tot he highest bidder..the Pandits and mUllahs robbed their own beleivers. IT takes the STRENGTH...of MIRI and PIRI to stand up like this. Its a Fallacy to say only a "sword in hand" is proof of MIRI...the ASA DEE VAAR and sloks of Guru nanak ji are so much stronger and SHARPER than any SWORD. The Sword that cuts through falsehood like a hot knife through butter !! Guur Hargobind Ji who first raised the Twin swords of MIRI and PIRI in PHYSICAL FORM..also sat on the Throne of Akal, the Sacha Patshah, kept Hawks, wore a kalghi, rode horses, had weapons and fought battles to VICTORY, Guru har rai also kept an armed squad of 2000 horsemen !! THE SGGS has all elements needed for a Complete SANT SIPAHI. Guru Gobind Singh ji completed the mission of Guru Nanak Ji by formalsiing the REHIT of the KHALSA ordained by GURU NANAK JI.