Islam Black Magic

[palaingtha]

Palaingtha ji,
I appreciate that your over 80 years of age and you have taken time to talk to some of us on here.
I'm sorry if you feel some kind of predjudice for your age due to to some of the comments (ageist!)

I admire your views and style of expression. With regards to this topic of ''black magic''- I know you just can't brush it off because it has nothing to do with sikhi.
That's not the point, the problem is that sikhism is above all that stuff IF you embrace it.
When you embrace sikhism you embrace the TRUTH
It's the truth that overpowers all this vodoo, curses, devil worship or whatever.

However, too many of us live in FEAR. Too many of us are taught when young not to accept candy or anything from strangers in case it is cursed.
Too many of us are told not to cross the road on through a cross junction...etc..

THIS IS ALL ABOUT ''FEAR''

A Gurmukh has NO FEAR. -that's what sikhi teaches and ensures us.
But show me a Gurmukh out of a crowd!!!

Sadly, these things exist because we let them. Until we don't conquer these fears they will continue to exist and be among us.
It is too easy and foolish to deny them in the world we have made.

The quality of your input into this forum has been very good and is desperately needed at times. I'm sure you understand how us young ones are washed with wrong attitudes of misguided elders when it is simply NOT true.

Wisdom comes with AGE, not just with learning. In this aspect, you are way ahead than us lowlifes here.
I apologise if you felt offended.

My reply:-
Lucky Singh ji,
Gurfateh,

From your posts it is apparent that you know this black magic exists. But you say that we can overcome these by discarding fear from our minds and that these things will disappear.
I have reservations to that. One upon whom black magic spells are directed do not know that somebody is trying to harm him. It is only realized when some harm has already been done and you find some such material in your home or office that puzzles it being there.
I want to relate another happening to which I was a witness. Here the person died: it could have been me but, a big BUT....
I will be short. I can vouch its truthfulness. It was 1945. Japanese forces were retreating from Burma. We lived in a town which was a target of Allied/British forces' Bombing and machine gunning indiscriminately. So we shifted to a village some 8 miles away.
One day I and and a boy named Kooja went on individual cycles to the town to buy some grocery that was not available in the village.
While returning we stopped by along the canal we were cycling. We both drank water from the canal. I took my cycle first and started to walk till the turn of the very narrow road.
I stopped suddenly and Kooja said " Kya yar...." and overtook me and reached ahead of me. I had suddenly stopped as I saw by the side of the road there was a banana leave on which there were seven heaps of cooked rice and on top of rice there were fish one on each. And believe me I saw seven skeleton bodied imps jumping around the banana leave with rice and fish with their hands shifting from one heap to another. I did not follow Kooja but I joined him from the other route away from the banana leave etc. We went to our respective homes.
After about 2 hours I learnt that Kooja has fallen sick and asking for rice and fish. I narrated the happening on way back to my father. He took me to Kooja's home. There I was asked to narrate what I said to my father. An LMP Dr. was attending on him and was not allowing rice and fish. I narrated fully skipping incident that I suddenly stopped. Kooja was lying senseless but at this he shouted at me asking why I was lying. Then I told the truth. Even then the Dr.advised not to give him any solid food save Veg. soup. Kooja died the same night.
As per Sikhism he had exhausted the quantity of breaths God had given him and was destined to shed his body.
The black magic or whatever it was , it was really powerful and really damaging.
We can't stop these things even we become bolder than boldness could be.

 

[Harry Haller]

I may not be a great Scholar of the Vedas and the SGGS like some (see I am getting the hang of this!), however, the last post intimates that belief in Creator and living in Hukam, living without fear, is not enough to overcome black magic.

As an uneducated fool, and the lowest of the low (hey, this is easy), perhaps someone more educated than myself could enlighten me as to what Sikhism says about powerful and damaging black magic that we cannot stop even though we are Sikhs.

A man cannot serve two masters, either we accept Creator as absolute, or we accept that in some instances this black magic cannot be stopped and is therefore as absolute.

I most humbly look forward to replies from my more educated brothers and sisters,

 

[Ishna]

However, too many of us live in FEAR. Too many of us are taught when young not to accept candy or anything from strangers in case it is cursed.
Too many of us are told not to cross the road on through a cross junction...etc..

THIS IS ALL ABOUT ''FEAR''

1. Kids should have a healthy distrust of strangers. They shouldn't be tempted by candy lest they be led away, kidnapped, poisoned (Halloween in the States, only accept sealed candy, not the stuff with the razor blades hidden in it).

2. Don't cross at a junction, you might get hit by a car!

This isn't superstition or black magic, it's COMMON SENSE.

Telling a kid they'll get 'cursed' for it is a cop out on the parent's side that they can't take the time to explain the danger or a cop out on the kids side that they don't understand anything more complex than 'a curse' or maybe it's a bit of both.

But it's definately got nothing to do with the evil eye.

 

[Harry Haller]

Don't cross at a junction, you might get hit by a car!

Would it be magic if the car were a Hillman Imp?

 

[palaingtha]

I may not be a great Scholar of the Vedas and the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji like some (see I am getting the hang of this!), however, the last post intimates that belief in Creator and living in Hukam, living without fear, is not enough to overcome black magic.

As an uneducated fool, and the lowest of the low (hey, this is easy), perhaps someone more educated than myself could enlighten me as to what Sikhism says about powerful and damaging black magic that we cannot stop even though we are Sikhs.

A man cannot serve two masters, either we accept Creator as absolute, or we accept that in some instances this black magic cannot be stopped and is therefore as absolute.

I most humbly look forward to replies from my more educated brothers and sisters,

Reply:-

The black art of black magic exists and Gurbani accepts it.
Now we having full faith in God can we keep our house, shops unlocked? What do you say there are no thugs, thieves, robbers, murderers,kidnappers, since we believe in God. Can somebody say because he is God fearing and has faith in God he is immune from the dangers of the world one of which is black magic or witch craft?
It is advisable to all our SPN members that we present our views sincerely and not bull doze what one thinks to be correct. Using taunting language dose not make one very prudent. Honesty of purpose is required. We are not playing a game of who is cleverer but exchanging our views and experiences on a particular topic.

 

[palaingtha]

Would it be magic if the car were a Hillman Imp?

Reply:
On the road one can be hit by a speeding car as one can drown in a flowing river. Why don't you ask if one was hit by car and died "was it because of drowning?" Your question is ridiculous.
Give reference of Gurbani that there is no such thing as Black Magic or Witch craft. You say there is no such thing. Are we to accept what you say? Give reference of Bani that there is no witch craft/Black Magic. Limit your replies to the topic only and nothig else.

 

[Ishna]

The black art of black magic exists and Gurbani accepts it.

Please provide references.

 

[Harry Haller]

The black art of black magic exists and Gurbani accepts it.

I bow down before your expertise in Sikhi, you are the straw that has broken my camels back, as you can see, I am no longer Sikh! I have my own ideas about 'the way' learned through my own methods, I always thought they were in tandem with Sikhism, but I now realise that the way, as championed by people like Kala Afghana, is just not Sikhism. So, I ask you in your eternal wisdom to please supply the relevant quotes that support your argument.

Now we having full faith in God can we keep our house, shops unlocked? What do you say there are no thugs, thieves, robbers, murderers,kidnappers, since we believe in God

What this has to do with black magic is a mystery to me

Can somebody say because he is God fearing and has faith in God he is immune from the dangers of the world one of which is black magic or witch craft?

God fearing? Sorry, I am not God fearing, so I would not know, I love God, I do not fear God. However, I do believe a love of god makes one immune from black magic, or should I say, a love of God makes one immune from the fear of black magic. I say this from my own experience, the Sikh point may be different.

 

[Harry Haller]

Reply:
On the road one can be hit by a speeding car as one can drown in a flowing river. Why don't you ask if one was hit by car and died "was it because of drowning?" Your question is ridiculous.
Give reference of Gurbani that there is no such thing as Black Magic or Witch craft. You say there is no such thing. Are we to accept what you say? Give reference of Bani that there is no witch craft/Black Magic. Limit your replies to the topic only and nothig else.

<sigh> ok, you have no sense of humour, the Hillman Imp is a british car made by the Hillman car company in the 1970's. It was in reference to the imps you mentioned in your story.

As for references, utterly pointless, one can pick and choose references in badly translated english all day to prove anything, therefore I am refusing to play the reference game any more.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

The BHOOTs and PRETS in Gurbani Context are the Very same as the Kartoot passu ki manas Jaat types of HUMANS...Humans who are DEVILS in Behaviour...Humans who are DEVTAS in behaviour...BOTH looka nd behave as HUMANS..you wont see any "horns" on one and a Chakra of light on the other...

I was just watching a Utube vidoe of the Wadbhag dera of Pakhand...it was showing a young girl supposedly having a BHOOT inside of her..the baba took her under a flowing waterfall..and the "BHOOT" that finally emerged..was Exactly the same horned evil pictured Daint i see so often in Mahabharta..Ramayan etc shown on TV serials... History tells us these so called Bhoots/daints/demons were actually the DRAVIDIANS who oppsoed and fought the Aryans when the later conquered India...How COME EACH DEVIL looks the SAME !!! Why are there NO Chinese devils, Mexican devils. african devils etc ??? Humans are so many RACES languages etc..but all BHOOTS are the same..ha ha

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Watch the BHOOT emerge towards the end of the video...all a laod of Bull CRAP ( Bovine excreta)

baba vadbagh singh ji - YouTube

 

[Luckysingh]

I'm not sure what direction this is going, but most of us are talking rubbish!!

There are many people that know or are certain that evil magic and powers do exist.
There are some who think they may be untouchable because they are sikh and they don't believe in such existence.

I'm not to argue if it exists or not.
It may just be all in the head!!
Try telling that to someone who has lost a dear one and they blame nothing else but the dark occult powers.

The point is, we are wasting our times like fools again with trying to determine if it exists or not.
Evil people and therefore evil -exists...FULL STOP.
Guru Nanak didn't tell kauda raksh that it's all in your head mate, it's all hukam that you commit these monstrous acts.. did he ??
This kauda was evil and that was that. He was lucky he got a chance to do a 180.

So like fools arguing about meat, we are bigger fools arguing if black and voodoo exist or not!!!!!!

As a sikh, I couldn't give a monkeys if it exists or not.
But what I do give a monkeys about, is that if it does exist then I should make myself untouchable and far away from this threat.

How do I do that ? - easy, live by the bani.
Remember, live by the sword, die by the sword.
Live by fear, then die by fear
In the same way Live by the Bani, and die by the Bani.

So whether I die from a heart attack, getting hit by a bus or by some ones curse and voodoo doll that they have stabbing, --It REALLY does NOT matter to me, because if I was living by the bani, then I will die by the bani- FULL STOP.and NOT someone's voodoo doll.

As sikhs, this is what we should understand.
Sikhism and bani is to come before and utmost to everything else.
But sikhism and bani is NOT everything else, however it can overpower everything else.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Thank you Lucky Singh ji!

There is no point in arguing the existence because the two arguing sides have very different paradigms, models of the world. It is extremely difficult to escape your particular model of the world, to see it from the outside. Believe me both models have their pros and cons.

Instead we should try and figure out what these people are talking about when they refer to black magic or occult powers and deal with it. We should ask ourselves: What was the experience like for the person who experienced black magic, and what resources can we draw from SGGS to tackle this problem?

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Lucky Singh Ji..we could start arguing about whether Baba Sri Chand...and Bhagwaan Krishan Ji before him..are REALLY "BLUE" or like all of us wheat coloured/fair etc ?? Some may ahve seen a BLUE HUMAN..others may swear NO WAY...but argue we can..and BOTH sides as Bhagat Ji said.."have MERIT..Pro and Cons.." yes of course...

As YOu have correctly said..Lets LIVE BANI..because Thats 100% what GURBANI is all about...we have to....we MUST LIVE GURBANI. PERIOD. GURBANI BANNEAH is GURBANI...End of story....

 

[namjiwankaur]

PSSST --- Have you remembered Waheguru lately?

Let's call a truce and make a little time for God.

Just sayin'

Nam Jiwan

 

[namjiwankaur]

_/|\_ Sat Nam

WaheGuru VaheGuru Simran - GurMantar - Relaxing Soothing Chill Out Meditation Mantra

http://youtu.be/Q8rN4VYfY4g


:redturban:

 

[palaingtha]

Re: Black.,.,.,.,.,.,.,magic

err, but sorcery, goblins, pixies, black magic, do not exist.....

Reply:
Sorcery exists.
Read the attacks by witches of King Kamrup, a translation is available on Website:-
www.rajkaregakhalsa.net
serf the site and go to ,Sikh Religion
Guru Tegh Bahadur page 144,
Read the subject material appearing on page 149.

Regarding Birth, death and rebirth refer page No 176 of Guru Granth Sahib, Gauri Mehla 5. It starts with KEYI JANAM BHAE KEET PATHANGA.

In Sukhmani Sahib(pp 278 of GGS) reading AAPAS KO KARAMWANT KAHAVE, JANAM MAREH BHAU JOAN BHARMAVE.

GURU Amar Das Ji says Shabad Nah Jane, Se ANHE BOLAY, SO KIT AAYE SANSARAA,HAR RAS NAH PAYIAA,BHIRTHA JANAM GAWAYA, MARH JHANE BARO BARA.

 

[palaingtha]

Re: Black.,.,.,.,.,.,.,magic

err, but sorcery, goblins, pixies, black magic, do not exist.....

Reply:
Sorcery exists.
Read the attacks by witches of King Kamrup, a translation is available on Website:-
www.rajkaregakhalsa.net
serf the site and go to ,Sikh Religion
Guru Tegh Bahadur page 144,
Read the subject material appearing on page 149.

Regarding Birth, death and rebirth refer page No 176 of Guru Granth Sahib, Gauri Mehla 5. It starts with KEYI JANAM BHAE KEET PATHANGA.

In Sukhmani Sahib(pp 278 of GGS) reading AAPAS KO KARAMWANT KAHAVE, JANAM MAREH BHAU JOAN BHARMAVE.

GURU Amar Das Ji says Shabad Nah Jane, Se ANHE BOLAY, SO KIT AAYE SANSARAA,HAR RAS NAH PAYIAA,BHIRTHA JANAM GAWAYA, MARH JHANME BARO BARA.

 

[Harry Haller]

Re: Black.,.,.,.,.,.,.,magic

Reply:
Sorcery exists.
Read the attacks by witches of King Kamrup, a translation is available on Website:-
www.rajkaregakhalsa.net
serf the site and go to ,Sikh Religion
Guru Tegh Bahadur page 144,
Read the subject material appearing on page 149.

Regarding Birth, death and rebirth refer page No 176 of Guru Granth Sahib, Gauri Mehla 5. It starts with KEYI JANAM BHAE KEET PATHANGA.

In Sukhmani Sahib(pp 278 of GGS) reading AAPAS KO KARAMWANT KAHAVE, JANAM MAREH BHAU JOAN BHARMAVE.

GURU Amar Das Ji says Shabad Nah Jane, Se ANHE BOLAY, SO KIT AAYE SANSARAA,HAR RAS NAH PAYIAA,BHIRTHA JANAM GAWAYA, MARH JHANME BARO BARA.

Firstly, I do believe you were done with this subject, yet you keep peddling your distorted views

Secondly, you have quoted me and replied, but you seem to be forgetting something, by the rules that you hold so dear, should we not be in communication?

and Thirdly, this website is full of misleading Sakhis that do nothing to show the Gurus in the light of what they preached. I have come across it before and it failed the litmust test with some conviction.

My belief, as a non Sikh, is that the Sikh Gurus were normal men with no magical powers, no miracle abilities, no people coming back from the dead, no women begging for sons, etc etc. They found God, and found enlightenment, now I am sure they were incredibly wise, clever and perceptive, which possibly gave people reason to think they were magical, but I would like to think Sikhism stands on its own without the need for cheap magic tricks to convince people to follow it.

 

[Harry Haller]

Sorcery exists.
Read the attacks by witches of King Kamrup, a translation is available on Website:-

Your proof that sorcery exists is a Sakhi???