Can Sikhs Worship Bhagwan Sri Krishna?

[Harry Haller]

I have said it before, and I will say it again, We need people like this.

There are plenty clever people out there trying to change our religion, to distort our history, to confuse us, divide us, and they use very clever and devious ways to do this, their arguments are very good, very researched, and they have some success.

People like my dear Bhen have sucked all this up in an innocence, they stand as a beacon to all as to how not to practice Sikhism, and it is so obvious, so clear, it can only make people think twice. Arguing with someone like this is like shooting fish in a barrel, it is very unsporting, the more people like this exist, the more those that interact with them will start asking questions and looking for the real truth, as no one in their right mind would believe some of the child like concepts and explanations. These people are a gift from God!

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

So Krishang is another word for God? Still seems like the dialogue is about Krishna or the site wouldn't write that :a27:

WHY wouldnt the site or any other write or not write anything ?? Is mere writing itself proof of something ?? The Internet is full of all kinds of sites saying all sorts of things..only the GULLIBLE swallow every hook line and sinker with the dead worm.... Not meant as offensive but ask the friednly "Granthi/or the people you meet in gurdwara who say the things you wrote what the word "Kamala" means in Punjabi. I am sure You will be surprised but you wont AGREE that its meaning applies to you.

 

[linzer]

what the word "Kamala" means in Punjabi.

Gyani ji, you made my day!
I've read this persons posts and wondered are they trolling or what?
I think this confirms it.
By the way "Kamala" nice choice of user name.

 

[spnadmin]

There is not much more to add to the thread topic. Something there is to say about trollishness. Kamala posts on several forums, asking the same off-planet questions. That was the way a noose could be tossed. In fact yesterday morning I had wondered whether it was about time for Kamala to resurface as she (if it is a she) had not been around for a while. The troll's pattern is: cycles of off-planet posting and membership on many forums.

The troll will: ask a question that has been asked and answered many times; ask it after the dust seems to be settled for a while and the issue seems resolved; ask it so you can watch the forum snap to attention and watch members run to the fray. The troll will keep up a steady pattern of irrelevant banter to everything the debaters say. Several posters have to be involved in order to distract a troll from several directions.

The best strategy: Appear to take the troll seriously during a limited period of banter, much as one poster on this thread could be seen to "toy" with the troll. This almost always leads to the troll replying after every post, and that gets the troll out into the open. Once the troll treads fairly deeply into the mire he has created, that's when to pull him in. Play the ego and spring the trap. There can be some and trollish whining and bitter complaints, or the troll will laugh the night off. The non-troll - someone who is utterly sincere about his or her point of view - has a completely different way of responding.

Also trolls like SMS speak.

"All the time the hunter is hunted by his prey"​

mayB Mai ji knoz the R & R toon dis comz from bcuz I cant remembr. But dat's duh gig.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Tejwant Ji...Your LBB Little Black book must have been found by soemone...thats why BRAZIL is being hit by massive "unrest". You should have been more careful with your LBB...he he

LOL.

You must be right but also unfair why the good people of Brasil should pay for my black book of gopis.

That was a good one as usual.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[findingmyway]

I fail to understand what my avatar has to do with anything. I have seen images of Vedic dieties in many Gurudwaras that are in active worship.

I know what you are talking about holy waters, then again most Gurudwaras have sarovars where most Amritdhari Sikhs say "all your sins wash away" etc etc.

& about fasting, you are right about that

Sikhi should be understand as per the teachings of SGGS, not as per what people do. We are all flawed!

 

[Ambarsaria]

Fellow spners critical of Kamala ji I share some of your comments but I want to make some observations from what I have observed in previous interactions with Kamala ji.

I was direct/harsh at times till I was quite directly reminded by someone who knew about her a little more than me that she is a younger person. Being so she is very well articulated. Whether we like what she says or conjectures is a different matter. We need to encourage specific and clear responses to bring out the confusion in terms of what is posted and what we understand.

Let us note some of the following specific to the poster,

• There were post(s) and even in adherence one time when Kamala ji indicated to be Hindu-Sikh
• There was a dialog that this may not be a validly so in detail, while superficially and in some aspects, there may be commonalities
  • Which parts of any religion have with every other religion whether it be beliefs, morality, conduct or even some practices
• In this thread perhaps we have all learnt something through posting
• From this thread perhaps others not members or just readers may have picked up something
  • The number of Sikhs who associate with Hinduism practices is very large
  • People partake in friends or neighbours who may be non-Sikh occasions and events
  • Perhaps this thread will encourage for some of these to keep the "devil in the detail" aspects of such participation in mind

The simplest answer in Sikhism to questions of God/creator is that one cannot be defined being infinite and us limited. So Krishna is not God nor is Guru Nanak Dev ji. Our Guru ji vehemently tried to ensure that they were not treated so but as like part of one just like everyone else.

One can actually even the most basic of descriptions for creator as a litmus test. That litmus test can come from mool mantar.

Let us review,

ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ArQ:- Akwl purK ie`k hY, ijs dw nwm 'hoNd vwlw' hY jo isRStI dw rcnhwr hY, jo sB ivc ivAwpk hY, BY qoN rihq hY, vYr-rihq hY, ijs dw srUp kwl qoN pry hY, (Bwv, ijs dw srIr nws-rihq hY), jo jUnW ivc nhIN AwauNdw, ijs dw pRkwS Awpxy Awp qoN hoieAw hY Aqy jo siqgurU dI ikrpw nwl imldw hY[

God/creator is one and is known as the eternal being, is the creator of all, present everywhere, without fear, without animosity, is timeless, is not guided by life cycles, is a self creation and is realized through its own (God/creator) blessing.

So for generally understood characteristics of Krishna against this test,

Basic God/creator above as in Sikhism vs Krishna

Krishna

• is one and is known as the eternal being,
  
  • NO
    
• is the creator of all
  • No
• present everywhere
  • NO
• without fear
  • NO
• without animosity
  • NO
• is timeless
  • NO
• is not guided by life cycles
  • NO
• is a self creation and is realized through its own blessing
  • NO

So for Kamala ji's original question, Krishna as understood commonly has little to do with Bhagwan/God/creator as in Sikhism and worship of such is totally irrelevant.

Separately in spirit of mutual learning, let us reflect if our responses would have the same tone had the poster asked,

Can Sikhs worship Bhagwan Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji?

Knowing more may start with someone worshiping Krishna but if they really are a learner (Sikh) they may move on beyond the starting point. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji read and understood in proper context would be of greatest benefit in such circumstances.

Just some observations and I always stand corrected.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: "Kamala" male gendered does mean someone as fool/mad/idiot.

But in the general use of the word as a very common Indian name for females, as in "Kamala ji", I believe it stands as if like the Lotus flower. Much purity, beauty, untainted by anything and so forth.

 

[Harry Haller]

Fellow spners critical of Kamala ji I share some of your comments but I want to make some observations from what I have observed in previous interactions with Kamala ji.

I was direct/harsh at times till I was quite directly reminded by someone who knew about her a little more than me that she is a younger person. Being so she is very well articulated. Whether we like what she says or conjectures is a different matter. We need to encourage specific and clear responses to bring out the confusion in terms of what is posted and what we understand.

Let us note some of the following specific to the poster,

• There were post(s) and even in adherence one time when Kamala ji indicated to be Hindu-Sikh
• There was a dialog that this may not be a validly so in detail, while superficially and in some aspects, there may be commonalities
  • Which parts of any religion have with every other religion whether it be beliefs, morality, conduct or even some practices
• In this thread perhaps we have all learnt something through posting
• From this thread perhaps others not members or just readers may have picked up something
  • The number of Sikhs who associate with Hinduism practices is very large
  • People partake in friends or neighbours who may be non-Sikh occasions and events
  • Perhaps this thread will encourage for some of these to keep the "devil in the detail" aspects of such participation in mind

The simplest answer in Sikhism to questions of God/creator is that one cannot be defined being infinite and us limited. So Krishna is not God nor is Guru Nanak Dev ji. Our Guru ji vehemently tried to ensure that they were not treated so but as like part of one just like everyone else.

Let us reflect if our responses would have the same tone had the poster asked,


Knowing more may start with someone worshiping Krishna but if they really are a learner (Sikh) they may move on beyond the starting point. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji read and understood in proper context would be of greatest benefit in such circumstances.

Just some observations and I always stand corrected.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: "Kamala" male gendered does mean someone as mad/idiot.

But in the general use of the word as a very common Indian name for females, as in "Kamala ji", I believe it stands as if like the Lotus flower. Much purity, beauty, untainted by anything and so forth.

he's right you know.......

 

[spnadmin]

Ambasaria ji

I take your criticism as very sincere. And your compassion and kindliness is something that I wish to emulate. However, I am not questioning the validity of Hindu beliefs or the enthusiasm of a young person who is trying sincerely to reconcile Vedic thought with Sikh philosophy. Rather, I protest the absence of sincerity.

My reaction to the idea of Bhagwan Guru Nanak Dev? That is a deep question. It is not the question that was asked.

However, there are several issues that have pointed me in the direction I took. Not to repeat all of my comments throughout the thread. Young people have to access their beliefs and faith in personal and infinite ways. And we should be here to respect that and help them move forward. However, in the case of this thread there were too many examples of "playing around" with the impressions of SPN members. This was transparent. The first thing that caught my eye when I read the thread was the use of "Bhagwan" in the title. "Bhagwan" Sri Krishna. What is that about? Why the use of the word "Can" instead of "May." I preceived too much cleverness in the way the OP was constructed. The kind of cleverness that suggested a set-up. Again, I don't want to rehash my remarks. The more I probed the more certain I was that the desire to learn was not even an issue, but the desire to tangle posters up in their own dialog was. My reaction was mild compared to the reactions of others who believed the thread was and I quote "planned subterfuge." Kamala ji has been reading, posting and discussing here for more than a year on threads that examine the fallacy of injecting vedic thinking into the practice of Sikhi... plenty of opportunities to reflect. That is not to say that after reading and discussing a person can decide they will stick to a particular point of view. Anyone is free to do that. What is distressing? After many discussions and exchanges have taken place, a Hindu/Sikh subject is re-opened without any sign of reflection whatsoever. I was not around for almost a year when an avalanche of pseudo-Hindu rhetoric about Hindu/Sikhism hit this forum. It was not intelligent Hindu theory and philosophy, and as Sikh philosophy it was even worse. Asking about "Bhagwan" Sri Krishna is skimpy Hindu thinking. A person doesn't add "Bhagwan" without first describing the meaning he/she intends. Asking if Sikhs "Can" worship the "bhagwan" is worse. At some point people have to grow up and stop trying to stun us with their nimble minds. A misleading record has to be set straight, or the forum will be filled with junk.

 

[Harry Haller]

Ambasaria ji

I take your criticism as very sincere. And your compassion and kindliness is something that I wish to emulate. However, I am not questioning the validity of Hindu beliefs or the enthusiasm of a young person who is trying sincerely to reconcile Vedic thought with Sikh philosophy. Rather, I protest the absence of sincerity.

My reaction to the idea of Bhagwan Guru Nanak Dev? That is a deep question. It is not the question that was asked.

However, there are several issues that have pointed me in the direction I took. Not to repeat all of my comments throughout the thread. Young people have to access their beliefs and faith in personal and infinite ways. And we should be here to respect that and help them move forward. However, in the case of this thread there were too many examples of "playing around" with the impressions of SPN members. This was transparent. The first thing that caught my eye when I read the thread was the use of "Bhagwan" in the title. "Bhagwan" Sri Krishna. What is that about? Why the use of the word "Can" instead of "May." I preceived too much cleverness in the way the OP was constructed. The kind of cleverness that suggested a set-up. Again, I don't want to rehash my remarks. The more I probed the more certain I was that the desire to learn was not even an issue, but the desire to tangle posters up in their own dialog was. My reaction was mild compared to the reactions of others who believed the thread was and I quote "planned subterfuge." Kamala ji has been reading, posting and discussing here for more than a year on threads that examine the fallacy of injecting vedic thinking into the practice of Sikhi... plenty of opportunities to reflect. That is not to say that after reading and discussing a person can decide they will stick to a particular point of view. Anyone is free to do that. What is distressing? After many discussions and exchanges have taken place, a Hindu/Sikh subject is re-opened without any sign of reflection whatsoever. I was not around for almost a year when an avalanche of pseudo-Hindu rhetoric about Hindu/Sikhism hit this forum. It was not intelligent Hindu theory and philosophy, and as Sikh philosophy it was even worse. Asking about "Bhagwan" Sri Krishna is skimpy Hindu thinking. A person doesn't add "Bhagwan" without first describing the meaning he/she intends. Asking if Sikhs "Can" worship the "bhagwan" is worse. At some point people have to grow up and stop trying to stun us with their nimble minds. A misleading record has to be set straight, or the forum will be filled with junk.

She's right you know.....

What I really wish to know is just young are we talking about here, 8? 11? 24?

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

There is not much more to add to the thread topic. Something there is to say about trollishness. Kamala posts on several forums, asking the same off-planet questions. That was the way a noose could be tossed. In fact yesterday morning I had wondered whether it was about time for Kamala to resurface as she (if it is a she) had not been around for a while. The troll's pattern is: cycles of off-planet posting and membership on many forums.

The troll will: ask a question that has been asked and answered many times; ask it after the dust seems to be settled for a while and the issue seems resolved; ask it so you can watch the forum snap to attention and watch members run to the fray. The troll will keep up a steady pattern of irrelevant banter to everything the debaters say. Several posters have to be involved in order to distract a troll from several directions.

The best strategy: Appear to take the troll seriously during a limited period of banter, much as one poster on this thread could be seen to "toy" with the troll. This almost always leads to the troll replying after every post, and that gets the troll out into the open. Once the troll treads fairly deeply into the mire he has created, that's when to pull him in. Play the ego and spring the trap. There can be some and trollish whining and bitter complaints, or the troll will laugh the night off. The non-troll - someone who is utterly sincere about his or her point of view - has a completely different way of responding.

Also trolls like SMS speak.

"All the time the hunter is hunted by his prey"​

mayB Mai ji knoz the R & R toon dis comz from bcuz I cant remembr. But dat's duh gig.

lOL..SPNADMIN JI..WE MUST be thinking "alike"...I was wondering where Kamala was when the question about Bhagat singh's absence came up a few days ago.....and Lo and Behold up popped Kamala ji...right on cue !!
wow...

 

[Harry Haller]

So your saying that the Ghost at the funfair is really old man McGyver?

Yes! and I would have got away with it too if it hadnt been for you darn kids

 

[linzer]

I as well have been wondering lately when "Kamala" would pop up again . Now what is most telling is her/his absence .

 

[Amahajan]

This is what is written about Sri Krishna in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji:

Blessed blessed is the flute played by the Lord.
Blessed blessed is the sheep from whose wool is the blanket of Sri Krishna made.
Blessed blessed is the blanket worn by Sri Krishna.
Blessed blessed are you mother Devaki in whose home has descended the husband of goddess of fortune.
Blessed blessed are the forests of Vrindavan where the Supreme Lord plays.

Here is the next:

Know that through Krishna, the Lord Hari Hari, the dance of creation dances.
First of all, there was only the Primal Being.
From that Primal Being, Maya was produced.
All that is, is His.
In this Garden of the Lord Hari, we all dance, like water in the pots of the Persian wheel.
The gopis dance and men dance.
There is no other than the Lord.
Don't dispute this,
And don't doubt this.
Keshav says, ""This creation and I are one and the same.""

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji -: Ang : 693 -: ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ :- SearchGurbani.com
Next:

The one lord Krishna is the Lord of all and is the divinity of the soul of all.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji -: Ang : 469 -: ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ :- SearchGurbani.com
Next:

All around there are sweet basil plants ( aas paas ghan tulsi ka birwa), the Lord sings beautifully in the centre.
Seeing his form, the cowherd girl is enchanted and she says, dont leave me to come and go.
Your feet are attached to my mind, o archer of the universe. Only fortunate people get these.
You are the Lord of the universe. You are the archer of the universe.
My name is Kabeer.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji -: Ang : 338 -: ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ :- SearchGurbani.com
Next:

Achhuta Para Brahma Parmeshwar antaryami Madhusudana Damodar Swami rishikesh govardhan dhari murli manohar hari ranga mohan madhav krishn murari jagadishwar hari jio asur sanghare ….

You can read these here:
Ang 1082 of Guru Granth Sahib Ji - SikhiToTheMax
Dont focus on the translation there. It seems they have done it blindly.
Next:

Mann tann base rahe Gopal.
Deen bandhu bhagat vashshal sda sda kripal.

Here are more references:
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji -: Ang : 988 -: ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ :- SearchGurbani.com
These are just a fraction of the praises of the Lord of the Universe mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib.
This is also written in sggs about him.
Beware of false translations. Beware of those who will say that this is not the Krishna of Gokul. Any sane person and even a true devotee will also say that these are references to him. Now, they will say that Vaheguru or akal purakh is the one who is named so. This is what is said here. There is no conflict.
Vaheguru itself signifies:
Vishnu
Hari
Gobind
Ram
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji contains baani of Sri Jaidev ji, Sri Namdev ji, Sri Ravidas ji and many more Vaishnav saints who knew Lord Krishna to be Supreme.
Bhai Gurdas ji in his vaaran states that Sri Vyas Dev was satisfied after compiling Srimad Bhagvatam which contains biography of Sri Krishna. This is the beauty of Bhakti.
So no doubts.

But, do consult Sikh brothers as they know better!

Moreover the mool mantra matches with the description of Govind, Krishna given in the first Verse of Brahma Samhita!

So, it can be that Sri Krishna is ParaBrahma!
Vaheguru ji.
Hare Krishna.

 

[swarn bains]

Krishan jee was a prophet. So was guru Nanak. sikh religion worships the guru (power of guru) and God. Sikh religion does not worship any individual including Nanak or Krishan. They admire the performance and writing of prophets and saints and take lesson from the writing but do nto worship any individual

 

[Amahajan]

LOL.

You must be right but also unfair why the good people of Brasil should pay for my black book of gopis.

That was a good one as usual.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Here I have read people using " Black book of gopis". Grow up guys!
Guru ji refered to " Geeta Govinda" the composition of bhagat Jaidev ji. Guru Sahib said that Jaidev ji after throwing out his ego( or pride or so) was able to glorify govind the master of all. This composition is actually about the love between Srimati Radhika Rani and Sri Krishna.

But there is not at all your fault. People like you are filled with false ego. They try to attack others devotion. And in the process they are themselves offending their spiritual knowledge. This knowledge of love between gopis and Krishna is so confidential and now a days various cartoons and TV shows make them available to people like you! Instead of relishing the nectar, smeared with lust, these people try to degrade the lord of universes. But, Sri Krishna does not feel even a little about this. He has set the laws of nature which will surely give the fruit of your actions !
Vaheguru ji!
Hare Krishna.

Please explain a little more about this " Black book of gopis".

 

[jatinde5949]

The EK "KRISHANG" is The Supreme SPIRIT..the CREATOR..the Supreme ATMA which also pervades ALL the devas and devtas...
No way is this "Bhagwan Krishan" Its Distorting Gurbani to change KRISNANG to KRISHAN !!

Krishnang has no meaning, it's krisnan. And what about Basudevasya under it?

 

[swarn bains]

sikhs do not worship the dead, but praise them. sikhs praise Nanak same way they raise krishan. there are only spiritual prophets, krishan and Nanak, rest all are social prophets