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Caste System In Sikhism

singhbj

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Nov 4, 2007
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Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Richachhaba ji,

Your findings are very true but mere talk cannot solve these problems.
One must practice what one says !

Unless one set's an example, it is very hard to influence and change the mind set of others.

Guru Gobind Singh ji formed the Khalsa Panth an equal platform for Gursikhs (Singhs & Kaurs) One has to partake Amrit follow the Rehat and let go of their caste.

There has to be a common ground on which the marriage is based. Like religion, custom, financial or social standing, caste, love etc

It is upto the individual what is his / her priority !

One can choose to lead or follow others.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh


 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
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IN Sikhi/Gurmatt everything has a subtle message.
1. Everyone is EQUAL in the eyes of the GURU.
2. This is even carried to the Karah Parshad that is sanctified enough for the Gurus Darbar.

You see, when we make Gaffeh/Karrah at home..we can cut back or add on...more Sugar..less GHEE..more Atta accordign to OUR PERSONAL Taste/liking/health etc...
BUT the Karah Parshad to be made for the Gurus drabar is MANDATED to be TRIPHAVAL - EQUAL amounts of atta/khand/ghee/water. NO SHORTCHANGING..NO ADDING more of anything /ingredients. This is to show that even the Karah Parshad that is to be distributed in the Gurus Darbar to his Sangat has to be EQUAL !!!
Then This sanctified food is to be EQUALLY distributed to ALL..no discrimination..vitkara at all. Again Principle of EQUALITY is upheld.
The FAULT lies with US SIKHS..we have FAILED our GURU in understanding Him..following HIM..
Lets make an attempt at really understanding the LOFTY Principles Guur Ji brought for us...they will UPLIFT us from all this quagmires....
Its ALL in the MINDSET..as one poster wrote soem time back..YES..Mann Jeeteh Jagjeet !!!
Gyani jarnail Singh
 

dalsingh

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Jun 12, 2006
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For anyone claiming caste discrimination doesn't effect Sikhs today: I found this on another site. I think it is pertinent.


Casteism raises head, cremation stopped

FEROZEPUR: Many in the country face the evil of caste-based discrimination in their lives. But in case of a Dalit woman in Bholuwala village, it continued even after she died. The dominant Jat Sikhs of the village did not let Dalit families cremate the body of Gurdial Kaur, 75, at the common cremation ground on Tuesday. She had died on Monday.

Jat Sikhs of the village allegedly threw out the pyre wood from the cremation ground following which the situation got tense. District administration sent the local executive magistrate and SHO of Ghal Khurd police station to the spot to diffuse the tension and persuade the Dalits to cremate the body at a vacant land in the village late on Tuesday afternoon.

According to sources, some Jat Sikh families had filed a case some time back to prevent Dalits from using the common cremation ground of the village, but the court had issued a stay order in favour of the Dalits pending a final decision. However, Jat Sikhs of the village claimed they hadn't received any such orders from the court.

They said Dalits had been given a separate piece of land, measuring about one kanal, for use as cremation ground for the last many years. Jagtar Singh, a resident of the village belonging to the dominating caste said Dalits had unnecessarily raised this issue at the behest of some local politicians to create tension.

Some people said similar tension had gripped the village when a Dalit man Gurdial Singh had died. That issue was resolved peacefully. Caste-based discrimination has deep roots in the village, which actually has two separate gurdwaras for the two communities. Dalit residents of the village alleged that being a minority and a financially depressed community, they were being discriminated against by the influential Jat Sikhs of the village.

Caste Concerns in Cremation Grounds in Punjab - Totally Contrary to Sikh Teachings

OTTAWA(Canada): The World Sikh Organization (WSO) expresses shock and outrage at the caste-based discrimination disallowing cremation of Gurdial Kaur in the common cremation grounds in the village of Bholuwala, Punjab.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji strongly condemned the ugly caste system prevalent in India over 500 years ago. He advocated equality of all individuals. "Amongst Sikhs, there is no caste" said, Ram Raghbir Singh Chahal, International President of WSO. Guru instituted langar, a community kitchen where all people, regardless of caste, race, religion or gender, sit side by side to eat.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji, the 10th Guru, put his final seal on the concept of equality at the first initiation ceremony of the Khalsa. He offered sacred Amrit, to all people, regardless of caste, creed or gender. It is relevant to note that he declined to admit so-called upper caste Rajputs to the new order of Khalsa, as they desired a special initiation ceremony, separate from those, they believed to be, of lower castes. The Panj Piarey (the five beloved ones) came from different caste backgrounds. "It's shameful that hundreds of years later, we're still arguing about cast based cremation grounds in Punjab" said, Gurpreet Singh Bal, WSO Canada President.

"Clinging on to the discriminatory divisions like Jat, Ramgharia, Khatri or Dalit Sikh is contrary to Guru's teaching and reflects ignorance on part of some Sikhs. This incident highlights a pressing need for strong educational campaign among Sikhs to rid our society of the lingering effects of the caste system and other social evils like drugs, dowries and female infanticide", said Gian Singh Sandhu, WSO Senior Policy Advisor.

The WSO urges the Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC) to launch a community wide educational endeavour to understand and practise Sikhism as it was intended to be. We also urge public media in Punjab to accept these and other societal challenges and become agents of desirable and necessary changes.

More sad news.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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How can I remove myself from your list of members?

Did he expect to be told that YES Jatts are SUPERIOR ??

I am a supposed "Jatt" (Dhillon Clan whose ancestor/founder is said to have founded Delhi !!)..but as things stand now..i dont own any farmland..i TEACH for a Living and retired as aTEACHER......so how am i "superior" to my neighbour who is supposedly Chamaar but who retired as a HEADMASTER and earns more than me ??

When will we listen to our Gurus..REALLY LISTEN..not just pretend to do so. Waheguru is NOT interested in our diets, our colour, our superiroty/lowness, where we stay, what passport we hold...etc etc...all HE will see is our Naam kamaii..our DEEDS..whether we really LOVED His CREATION as He does...whether we see all as ONE..as He does....etc etc. How right someone has said..You DONT see GOD if you dont see His Creation..one cannot see ONE God if one doesnt see His People as One.

Gyani jarnail Singh
 
Aug 6, 2006
255
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SSA,
There is no room for caste system in sikhism. Many will say that they have experianced it in many sikhs then only things I will say that those who believe in caste system cannot be called sikhs. For real sikhs caste system does not exists
Roopsidhu
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
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Jun 17, 2004
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Bling ji, You are welcome to repost in English. Any comments written exclusively in Punjabi without some English summary are a violation of TOS. The official language of SPN is English. Therefore a post has been deleted. spnadmin
 

Bling

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Apr 26, 2011
1
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olrite bro :)

i'll report in english

anyhow thanks for d information

Please make sure it is English my good brother :) d = the :)
 

Harwinder

SPNer
Apr 4, 2011
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I agree 100% on this article for this needs to be read by many of our sikhs and mostly our elders who are stuck on the caste system and tend to teach it to there children.

"Go to youtube.com and see how this has become a big problems in gurudawars also"

{type in: sikhi tv- Caste System In sikhism. )
And watch how the guy explains why there are four doors in a gurudawara. (he is totally wrong..

In the golden temple (correct me if i am wrong) there are four doors north,south, east and west so all walks of life are welcome no matter color cast creed or religion.
 

findingmyway

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Kanwaljit ji,
I normally enjoy your posts very much. So it is with great regret that I delete your latest response on this thread. Forum rules require the full shabad to be posted in Gurmukhi with your understanding in English. Feel free to repost with the ENTIRE shabad. Single lines are often out of context and distort the meaning intended. Thanks for your co-operation.
 

Kanwaljit.Singh

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ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥

ਆਖਾ ਜੀਵਾ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਮਰਿ ਜਾਉ ॥
Chanting it, I live; forgetting it, I die.


ਆਖਣਿ ਅਉਖਾ ਸਾਚਾ ਨਾਉ ॥
It is so difficult to chant the True Name.


ਸਾਚੇ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਲਾਗੈ ਭੂਖ ॥
If someone feels hunger for the True Name,


ਉਤੁ ਭੂਖੈ ਖਾਇ ਚਲੀਅਹਿ ਦੂਖ ॥੧॥
That hunger shall consume his pain. ||1||


ਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਇ ॥
How can I forget Him, O my mother?


ਸਾਚਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਾਚੈ ਨਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
True is the Master, True is His Name. ||1||Pause||


ਸਾਚੇ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਤਿਲੁ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥
Trying to describe even an iota of the Greatness of the True Name,


ਆਖਿ ਥਕੇ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਈ ॥
People have grown weary, but they have not been able to evaluate it.


ਜੇ ਸਭਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਕੈ ਆਖਣ ਪਾਹਿ ॥
Even if everyone were to gather together and speak of Him,


ਵਡਾ ਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਘਾਟਿ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥੨॥
He would not become any greater or any lesser. ||2||


ਨਾ ਓਹੁ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੋਗੁ ॥
That Lord does not die; there is no reason to mourn.


ਦੇਦਾ ਰਹੈ ਨ ਚੂਕੈ ਭੋਗੁ ॥
He continues to give, and His Provisions never run short.


ਗੁਣੁ ਏਹੋ ਹੋਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥
This Virtue is His alone; there is no other like Him.


ਨਾ ਕੋ ਹੋਆ ਨਾ ਕੋ ਹੋਇ ॥੩॥
There never has been, and there never will be. ||3||


ਜੇਵਡੁ ਆਪਿ ਤੇਵਡ ਤੇਰੀ ਦਾਤਿ ॥
As Great as You Yourself are, O Lord, so Great are Your Gifts.


ਜਿਨਿ ਦਿਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਕੀਤੀ ਰਾਤਿ ॥
The One who created the day also created the night.


ਖਸਮੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਹਿ ਤੇ ਕਮਜਾਤਿ
Those who forget their Lord and Master are vile and despicable.


ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਵੈ ਬਾਝੁ ਸਨਾਤਿ ॥੪॥੩॥
O Nanak, without the Name, they are wretched outcasts. ||4||3||
 

findingmyway

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Thank you for reposting this shabad from ang 349. Your translation is the last 2 lines doesn't seem in keeping with the rest of the shabad. It is very harsh language and seems very judgemental. I do not believe the Guru would ever use such language to describe people.
ਖਸਮੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਹਿ ਤੇ ਕਮਜਾਤਿ ॥ refers to how people feel in themselves when they forget Oankar.
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਵੈ ਬਾਝੁ ਸਨਾਤਿ ॥੪॥੩॥ Nanak here is using this as a way of the person judging themself and not others. This is not portrayed in the translation. Sikhi is all about introspection and not judging others. This fits in better with the rest of the shabad.
 

Seeker9

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I HAVE NEVER SEEN A"JATT GURDWARA" BUT HAVE COME ACROSS "RAMGARHIA GURDWARA" WRITTEN ON SOME GURDWARAS.:interestedsingh:

I have never seen a written description to that effect for any caste in any Gurdwara. However, I have come across "Jatt" Gurdwaras. The discrimination occurs inside and not outside
 

Kanwaljit.Singh

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It is very harsh language and seems very judgemental

That seems highly possible. I believe Guru is saying that rather than placing a person up and down based on his wealth, wage or work.. place a person above or below based on his Devotion.

what action can be taken to stop this any ideas?

Just like place of worship (though Gurudwara is much more than that!), land, water and everything else under this sky has been divided based on caste, counrty etc. Guru Nanak tried to tell the world that all belongs to God. So the place where one was supposed to get over these ideas of ownership is being subjected to such division. Such is the irony of life. Is there a solution? I don't know if staying there and having conflict is OK? I would rather have in midst of ABC ka Gurudwara, XYZ ka Gurudwara a place called Guru Ka Gurudwara :| well Gurudwara was always belonging to Guru. But yes people forgot that.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
 

findingmyway

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That seems highly possible. I believe Guru is saying that rather than placing a person up and down based on his wealth, wage or work.. place a person above or below based on his Devotion.

Who are we to judge devotion? Who are we to judge others? We can only judge ourselves. That is the point of equality and the argument against caste. Changing the goals from caste to devotion seems a bit foolish ;)

Those you call below, I would call more lost....
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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I have never seen a written description to that effect for any caste in any Gurdwara. However, I have come across "Jatt" Gurdwaras. The discrimination occurs inside and not outside

Ramgharriahs have always emphasised the word Ramgariah in all their Gurdwaras, Associations, Halls, Schools, Socities etc. A Simple Google will bring up hundreds of such all over the world esp in Africa - kenya, uganda etc and today in UK (mainly becasue the kenya/Uganda sikhs all elded up in the UK they brought their ramgariahness with them - i wish they ahd left it behind together with most of their wealth which was robbed by the likes of Idi Amin of Uganda ... The CHIEF rivalry is between the Ramgariahs and Jatts - and now extended to Ravidassis. BUT there is NOT a SINGLE "JATT" Gurdwwara/Association/Society/School etc....these are always Singh Sabha/Khalsa etc...never JATT.( just the name part)
Its true that Discrimination EXISTS..and its INSIDE the Gurdwara.
BUT the MAIN CULPRITS are the widespread Mushrooming of DERAS, SANTS, BABAS, Mahapurshs, Taksaals etc. THESE people are "BACKWARD COMPATIBLE" ( IT lingo !! used most often by Microsoft/IBM etc )...that is they are SANATAN/BRAHMINISED/VEDANTIST/HINDUS MORE than they are SRM SIKHS of Gurbani Base. IT is in the "Jatt" gurdwaras that these mentality people CONTROL that this jatt-neech caste DIVIDE becomes stronger by the day...and this SUITS soem vested Interests very well becasue the more DIVIDED SIKHS are..the weaker they become and easier to DOMINATE...DIVIDE AND RULE...its under this policy that the so called Jatt-Ravidassiah conflict is being kept alive and kicking..by random incidents here and there to keep the fires burning...Everytime the Foires are DOWSED..a new conflict at a new place REIGNITES !! In one Gurdwara..the Nishan Sahib was made the bone of contention. The Tradtional one was REMOVED and replaced by the Har one. OK. The two sides came to a compromise...Lets share the Nishan Sahib..one Vasakhi..Khanda..next vasakhi ..Har. It was well..then suddenly one group said NO WAY...we wnat our Nishan for ever. Compromise again..lets have TWO nishan then..one Khanda and beside it the Har one. Peace for a while..Then again one group says NO WAY..we want ONLY OUR Nishan Sahib to remain - the other must be demolished. Its very clear that some one will NOT let a compromise stay. IF thwarted in one village..they just move elsewhere ..and start the fires burning again..
SO SIKHS with the RIGHT Background ( GURBANI BACKGROUND) have to become proactive....and start the FIGHT form HOME..YOURSELF...the SIKHS have to say NO..to DOWRIES, FEMALE FOETUS MURDER, WIFE BEATINGS, ALCOHOL, DRUGS, CASTES, etc etc etc...each forward looking SIKH has to begin with HIMSELF/HERSELF.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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The word KAMJaat....has nothing to do with CASTE.....per se....Its a OPPOSITE.
like in Cold...Hot....Black..White...
Jaat - means one with honour..high..dignity..etc.. and Kamjaat is opposite of that..dishonourable..low sans-dignity ( BOTH Jaat and Kamjaat are MENTAL CONDITIONS ) a Jaat person woudl have self esteem high self vlaue..a kamjaat would have no self esteem or low self esteem, feelings of inferiority ...
Its a CONDITION of the person/self....decided by NAAM or absence of Naam.
 
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