Concept Of Manmukh/Gurmukh. Is There A Freewill In Sikhism?

[Tejwant Singh]

Respected Tejwant Singh

I strongly suggest you re-read what I've written, particularly the verb in the passive voice at the beginning of the sentence.This is where the object [cooperative pursuit] is acted upon by the subject [English definitions]. And was in fact, an invitation to treat the subject under discussion following the 'cooperative inquiry' guidelines, where the emphasis is on research and develop "with" sangat rather than "on" sangat. To talk about Original Ji and not about definitions, the dialectical framework within which cooperative inquiry is found, is not only derogated from, but destroyed. And, the irony is not in the ignorance but rather in the approval by the service provider [Admin Singh] of the potential violation of its constitutional terms of engagement, that is:

4. Prudence: Respond to the topic in hand, not the persons, who posted it.

As a result, I'm obliged to remind us all of the ethical considerations inherent in formal communication with which we must all accord and conform.

And also if I may add, the word COUSIN [noun] has no equivlent a noun in the Punjabi dialect, adjectives yes, but no noun which springs to mind. My reference in the post above was to show how Sanskrit can be very general and fluid to accommodate terms such as a Deity to mean a lot more than what is defined in English Dictionaries. And the cooperative inquiry was to that end to construct and develop a wider definition of Nanak's Creator Being [karta purakh], encapsulating as it were, the general from the particular. On that note I invite the honourable sangat to debate and discuss so that a wider definition is found with which there is general consensus.

Good day !

Originalji,

Guru Fateh.

I have read your post several times before responding to it.

You seem a bit upset for the reasons only known to you. What in my post made you upset? Please elaborate because I can not make head or tail of your post.

As far as cousin in Punjabi is concerned, I added more examples in Punjabi to compliment cousin. I have no idea what you mean by adjectives and in what context? Do we have plural and gender forms of adjectives in English as we have in Punjabi?

What do you find wrong in that? Please explain.

Lastly, how does one say Deity in Sanskrit as you have mentioned it in your post.

It seems when someone disagrees with you and thus challenges your stance on certain aspects of Sikhi and Sikhi values, you become defensive for some reason. Why is that?

4. Prudence: Respond to the topic in hand, not the persons, who posted it.

FYI, I did respond to the topic and as you have written the topic, it is my duty to disagree where I find it is appropriate and I have to address that person whom I disagree with.
What do you find wrong with that as well?

We are all here to learn from each other. Please let me know in details and with honesty, what in particular has bothered you in my post.

Thanks.

 

[Original]

Sir

Thank you for the communication !

I have read your post several times before responding to it.

Thank you ! I'm sorry you failed to cotton-on with what I went on to say.

You seem a bit upset for the reasons only known to you.

No comment !

What in my post made you upset?

No comment !

Please elaborate because I can not make head or tail of your post.

In my post above [#18], I've requested a cooperative approach to consider some of the key terms used in Sikh Theology. Common sense dictates that if we are to understand each other, then we have to mean the same by the words we use. We can’t just use words to mean whatever we choose them to mean. So with that in mind the idea of a joint enterprise [cooperative inquiry] seemed the right way forward.

As far as cousin in Punjabi is concerned, I added more examples in Punjabi to compliment cousin. I have no idea what you mean by adjectives and in what context? Do we have plural and gender forms of adjectives in English as we have in Punjabi?

..see post #20 !

What do you find wrong in that? Please explain.

No comment !

Lastly, how does one say Deity in Sanskrit as you have mentioned it in your post.

No comment !

It seems when someone disagrees with you and thus challenges your stance on certain aspects of Sikhi and Sikhi values, you become defensive for some reason. Why is that?

..so that curiosity can keep the ignorant at bay !

FYI, I did respond to the topic and as you have written the topic, it is my duty to disagree where I find it is appropriate and I have to address that person whom I disagree with.
What do you find wrong with that as well?

..on the subject matter yes, and not the subject [me]. Dialectic is the exercise of pure thought, a process of rational argument aimed at grasping the eternal truth [satnam]. It's not about Original, it is about Waheguru the God, the energy, the creator, the consonance. It is not about agreeing or disagreeing, it is about understanding. I understand you and admire your passion for Sikhi, but equally am I reminded that, that is you in part a Sikh and not the whole Sikh. Dialectic reasoning is to an objective grounding and not subjective, bearing in mind of course of some of the inherent difficulties in achieving the same.

We are all here to learn from each other.
No comment !

Please let me know in details and with honesty, what in particular has bothered you in my post.

..lol...jatts don't bother or get bothered [jovial characteristic], too busy lov'n and living. I love and respect you, but I'm not you. I understand that and so should you.

Take care !

 

[Harry Haller]

I love the both of you like my own brothers, there is much to be learned from the dialogue between you, much,

There was a time when a bit of pushing and shoving really livened up posts, however, where content is of an exceptional standard, dialogue must be clear and concise, let us all try and keep on topic without resorting to picking apart personalities.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

I love the both of you like my own brothers, there is much to be learned from the dialogue between you, much,

There was a time when a bit of pushing and shoving really livened up posts, however, where content is of an exceptional standard, dialogue must be clear and concise, let us all try and keep on topic without resorting to picking apart personalities.

Harry ji,

Guru Fateh.

I totally agree with you. It is no good feeling touchy about things for naught rather than learning from the interaction. We, as Sikhs have that duty. Eventually, some of us will get this into our head provided the veil of blind faith does not blind us again and again thus impeding us from savouring Guru Shabad.

 

[Original]

I love the both of you like my own brothers, there is much to be learned from the dialogue between you, much,

There was a time when a bit of pushing and shoving really livened up posts, however, where content is of an exceptional standard, dialogue must be clear and concise, let us all try and keep on topic without resorting to picking apart personalities.

Thank you ! I'm touched - from Harry the hound to Harry the lamb - true reflection of a beautiful soul !

Science has given us a great deal of understanding about the laws of nature and how they work. Take electricity for example, we don't need evidence of its existence, we can see the proof in the light bulb. Similarly, if there is life after death as Sikh Theology have us believe, do we need evidence ? I think not. What we need is understanding and experience for it to be held true. Why should we take the deepest questions of our existence on faith alone ? Isn't there a way to find out for ourselves ? Yes there is, said Nanak ! Are there means we can use to explore and understand ourselves and Waheguru so that we can have a direct understanding of its existence ? Yes, said Nanak ! Is it possible for this understanding to satisfy our rationality ? Yes, said Nanak !

Gurbani is alluding to this end, understanding of which is fundamental and requires word usage to mean the same for both the individual and the cooperative. With that in mind the origin of words may be a case in point to get underway what should be an exciting venture for all. And, since the pursuit is cooperative prejudices and bias ought not to effect outcomes because the grounding is to be objective.

I think the first word we can examine in some detail is, karta purakh, that, on the backdrop of you having accepted the existence of a Supreme Being. Even SB can be interrogated if the house so prefers ?

I have a busy schedule from hereinafter and may not be able to respond as I would've liked to, but suffice to say, you have enough bone to chew on.

Good day !