General Conversation With God

[pk70]

We would be like ants to god… now aside from namjap ji, im assuming nobody here takes the time to talk to ants D) …. So why would god take time to speak to us? Are we not ants?
Well Snister Ji I talked about ants, though in favor of them! Are you ignoring it? I thought you will like it. Well wrong guess, Live long the ANTS !!!!

 

[spnadmin]

Sinister ji

God does look favorably on chill-out sessions. It is called meditation. As for ants, Guruji tells us that an ant can eat a mountain. Something is going on between God and ants as evidence from Guruji tells us.

ਐਸੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਕੀ ਕੀਟਿ ਹਸਤੀ ਜੀਤਾ ॥
aisee bhagath govindh kee keett hasathee jeethaa ||
Such is devotional worship of the Lord of the Universe, that the ant can overpower the elephant.


ਜੋ ਜੋ ਕੀਨੋ ਆਪਨੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਅਭੈ ਦਾਨੁ ਦੀਤਾ ॥੨॥
jo jo keeno aapano this abhai dhaan dheethaa ||2||
Whoever the Lord makes His own, is blessed with the gift of fearlessness. ||2||


ਸਿੰਘੁ ਬਿਲਾਈ ਹੋਇ ਗਇਓ ਤ੍ਰਿਣੁ ਮੇਰੁ ਦਿਖੀਤਾ ॥
singh bilaaee hoe gaeiou thrin maer dhikheethaa ||
The lion becomes a cat, and the mountain looks like a blade of grass.



I think NamJap is building up karma credits with all those lumps of sugar.

 

[Astroboy]

We would be like ants to god… now aside from namjap ji, im assuming nobody here takes the time to talk to ants D) ….

:inca:

So why would god take time to speak to us? Are we not ants?

:yes:

We should make His Will our own. Ants live by His grace, so if we were to adjust our perspective about ants or other dangerous creatures, we will be engaged in martial arts, not chemical warfare. :crazy:

 

[Sinister]

:inca:



:yes:

We should make His Will our own. Ants live by His grace, so if we were to adjust our perspective about ants or other dangerous creatures, we will be engaged in martial arts, not chemical warfare. :crazy:
[/size][/font]

Apologies namjap ji, i will have to pull your leg a little more!

His 'will', will never be ours!

interesting, in your last quote... "Ants live by His grace"
You also talked about "adjusting perspectives"

let me adjust perspectives from this end of the line :}{}{}:

Cancer cells live by 'his grace' as do viruses and bacteria...are you still adamantely opposed to chemical warfare?

or how would you like to pay $100 for a bushell of wheat because a potent WSMvirus knocked out half the wheat crop around the globe?
are you still adamantely opposed to chemical warfare?

are you the type that lets mosquito's feed off your arm?

this is WAR! win by any means possible (support the species)! the sanctity of life argument is nonsense in this world (100% egotistical man-made refuse). Save a life here and kill 3 in the process (for every grain of sugar you fed the ant 3 ants probably died from an insecticide in the sugar-cane feild). Feeding the ant colonies is just another arrogant attempt in the interference of reality or its done for your own entertainment and amusement (then its ok...and i support your efforts 100%)... disturbing the balance for the claim of moral superiority (i dont support). (there is no difference between you and I...your poison (sugar) is slow acting mine is instantaneous :crazy

kill or be killed (your body is killing plenty of lifeforms as we speak)..consciously and subconciously...chemically...not through martial arts.

Keep those Karma points COMING!
(i can go on, but i stop here :shutup


cheers

 

[Sinister]

Sinister ji

God does look favorably on chill-out sessions. It is called meditation. As for ants, Guruji tells us that an ant can eat a mountain. Something is going on between God and ants as evidence from Guruji tells us.

I think NamJap is building up karma credits with all those lumps of sugar.

Add Ji

:happy:

where and when can i cash in my credits?
i have to buy a few things before my chillout session with god :{;o:

cheers

 

[pk70]

(quote sinister)
let me adjust perspectives from this end of the line
Cancer cells live by 'his grace' as do viruses and bacteria...are you still adamantely opposed to chemical warfare?
or how would you like to pay $100 for a bushell of wheat because a potent WSMvirus knocked out half the wheat crop around the globe?
are you still adamantely opposed to chemical warfare?

this is WAR! win by any means possible! the sanctity of life argument is nonsense in this world. Save a life here and kill 3 in the process. Feeding the ant colonies is just another arrogant attempt in the interference of reality... disturbing the balance for the claim of moral superiority. (there is no difference between you and I...your poison (sugar) is slow acting mine is instantaneous

kill or be killed (your body is killing plenty of lifeforms as we speak)..consciously and subconciously...chemically...not through martial arts.
(i can go on, but i stop here

cheer

You are teaching Gurbani , that is what I feel, by questioning the knowledge of Hukm. Namjap ji can come up with better answer; however, let me just share with you what I see in your questions..” Hukme undr sabh ko bahir hukm n koe. Nanak Hukme je bujhe ta haome kahe ne koe..Japji( all are under His Ordinance, none is above that. If that Ordinance is understood, speaking in ego ceases.)”
We, with crowd mentality, understand one aspect of Hukm while resist the others, that is the riddle, you are there to solve it with all your forceful double edged questions. I enjoy them really, it is not buttering ( as no body trusts no nobody these days, I request you to trust at least my positive comments in this context). Now, coming back to understand His Hukm with the aid of your superior questions. I doubt namjap ji is a promoter of ants in contrast of your views. Innocent word cannot be indicted with wrong sense; however, inflicts are inevitable if other part of His ordinance is not understood. Add to it, conflicts become necessary in pursuit of safety. Survival is the basic law of nature, what ants do is also sheer of survival. From “Sant” to Sapahee” is the journey towards existence to survival while remaining obedient to His Hukm. Guru Gobind Singh completes that journey by re reinforcing that instinct in saints like individuals otherwise “ Ahinsa” remains a “dream” word. In a Shabad, Guru Nanak advocates it by pointing at lack of that instinct (SGGS 360) that resulted in disaster. Bowing to His Hukm doesn’t mean turning back to survival instinct with what He armed the living beings. All your questions make complete sense to understand His ordinance. If they are not considered in positive way, some thing a part of His Hukm is left out due to superficial understanding of His Ordinance. There is no evil but actions are followed with reactions and witnesses declare it an evil in ignorance. So I agree with [/FONT] you hundred percent “ kill or be killed” then don’t blame HIM saying because of His Hukm we let others kill us, actually we disobeyed His Law of nature.

 

[Astroboy]

Cancer cells live by 'his grace' as do viruses and bacteria...are you still adamantely opposed to chemical warfare?

OK, just to debate this issue, I have taken the role of defendant and will do my best to defend this statement. How do I start ????

Here goes....

There is nothing without His Will. If you've got cancer and are fighting it, that's because the doctor recommends it. Guru Nanak was not feeling well and his dad called the doctor. What did Guru Nanak say ?

Tell me, let's say you live for a hundred years. What next ? Do you still want to live on for another 100 ?

If you've lived for 40 years and you've got cancer and the doctors are doing their best to add more life to you. But don't you know reality ? We take birth according to his will. So this life does not belong to you. You are not a different entity from the creator. We are part of the creator so are the cancer cells. Make His will your own and all will become clear. What is life ? An illusion. Why ? Because it is temporal in nature. There is no absolute reality to physical life. We are Soul. That's reality. That part of 'us' which never dies. How do you identify yourself ?


So what are you doing fighting His Will. What difference would it make if your physical life span was a 100 or 40 years ???
Guru Nanak taught us to be householders while living truthful lives.
What would you say Today, if you were to die Tomorrow ?

 

[drkhalsa]

Dear Nam jap ji

Are you defending your statement or sinisters statement ???

I am confused after reading your response.

 

[Astroboy]

I am playing 'defendant' only. So this is a drama in a drama. But I can defend Sinister's statement if it is the truth. So I defend the truth. No confusion. :happy:

 

[Archived_Member_19]

sab dramebaaz..eko lekhakaar

 

[Sinister]

O MY GOD! I was just trying to promote chemical warfare. you guyz made this into a discourse on metaphysics and Objective Morality.

But then again, to be fair, Namjap ji was just talking about feeding ants… before it came to chemical warfare. (such is the volatility of conversations on fiber optic networks)

The root of my post lies in the disbelief that someone can actually practice ahimsa (like you said Pk70). Also to show everyone, that doing something cannot be viewed positive just because it was done with good intention. Stuff being done unconsciously or for entertainment usually has many negative repercussions…so the line between good and bad actions exists but it depends on how you look at it (to what degree are you a utilitarian). (It was just a response to the Karma thingy). (this is our convergeance point pk70, you stated; ‘There is no evil but actions are followed with reactions and witnesses declare it an evil in ignorance’…however it is not through ignorance that something is labeled evil...it’s through emotion).
[/FONT]
I always try to post to maintain “truthiness” (the way I see it).[/FONT]
[/FONT]
A secondary goal of this diatribe was a promotion of chemical warfare (which Namjap ji seems to be slightly anti)…and all the cultural and physical benefits that chemicals bring to our lives. (respect be upon them…especially ethanol) [/FONT]
The objectives of this post were clear, and judging from the replies…A large degree of awareness has been achieved…with a little overkill (to much spray).[/FONT]

cheers

 

[Sinister]

Namjap ji,

It’s only a debate if you can make your thoughts coherent and Consistent. Otherwise it’s just another one of your stories and indeed, a drama.

“So what are you doing fighting His Will. What difference would it make if your physical life span was a 100 or 40 years ????”

You ask a question like that after stating; “There is nothing without His Will”?

It’s a self-contradictory question that cannot be asked if you hold the predicate “there is nothing without his will” to be true.

If the predicate is true then no one can fight his will. If everything is his will, then fighting his will is even part of his will (you are no longer fighting…just carrying out his will…right?)

So, in conclusion you do not believe in the predicate “there is nothing without his will”, or else you would not have asked the question "what are you doing fighting his will?"

What you just stated is complete nihilism and unhealthy for the mind! A psychological anomaly, a disorder (because we are both sane, neither you nor I believe it to be true).

Earlier you stated : “We should make His Will our own” (to which I refused)

We cannot accept the will of god nor make it our own…Why?
Because our will is dependant hence independent from the will of god.
(of co{censored} such a statement drips of ego…because a rift has been made between god and us…which is also not allowed in Sikh philosophy…oops…but it just sounds so right, doesn’t it?)

then you continue with the traditional skeptic defense;
“What is life ? An illusion. Why ? Because it is temporal in nature. There is no absolute reality to physical life. We are Soul. That's reality. That part of 'us' which never dies. How do you identify yourself ?”


If everything is an illusion why do you continue to put food in your mouth? or continue to have the illusion that you are putting food in your mouth? (let me guess: because god wills it? Or do you will it? Your soul wills it? Is your soul you? Is your soul God? Does that mean, you Are God? What is you? Why have God in the first place if its just one giant loop and we are back to square one?

This you do not believe in either (I know that for certain). Because what is point of all this? If everything is an illusion then the medium through which you learnt your Sikhi may also be an illusion. And a sikh, I have noted has little sympathy for the illusionist.

For the materialists; free will is limited by physics, biology, socio-circumstances and our ego…such is not case for theologists as they do not abide, by any measure, along the rules of Occam’s Razor, rational thought and reliabilism (it’s a circus of ideas).

What exactly are you practicing?
Now would be a good time to blame rationality and its incapacities to understand the realm of God…preferably from a quote from Gurbani (considering you are fairly familiar with it…Ironically, the guru that started this thought, in the first place, is the only person that can end it...maybe it is his will afterall...a disease and a antidote wrapped up into a neat package of cyclic pain and bliss)

Confused yet?

 

[Astroboy]

This you do not believe in either (I know that for certain). Because what is point of all this?
If everything is an illusion then the medium through which you learnt your Sikhi may also be an illusion.
And a Sikh, I have noted has little sympathy for the illusionist.

This you said it correctly and applies correctly according to the Laws of Nature.
Paper gets recycled by natural laws but man has started to re-cycle paper using chemicals
It is said, that anything used in excess becomes a bad thing. Only nature's processes are safe and healthy.
Nature provides you with a brain. Nature is real so long as you live in the physical body.
The average life span being 85 revolutions around the sun.

Ideas and information conveyed remains latent until someone starts using it. You can either use chemicals for
your benefit or for your destruction. You can use fire either to cook your food or cook a person.
But our brain tells us that there is a difference between the hazards of fire and the hazards of chemicals.

Let's get back to the point where you mentioned ants.
You were pulling my leg, so to speak.
Have you now realized that the drama in a drama is all in the mind ?

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਆਪਣਾ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਸਬਦਿ ਕਸਵਟੀ ਲਾਇ ॥
गुरमुखि आपणा मनु मारिआ सबदि कसवटी लाइ ॥
Gurmukẖ āpṇā man māri*ā sabaḏ kasvatī lā*ė.
The Gurmukh has conquered his own mind, by applying the Touchstone of the Shabad.
ਮਨ ਹੀ ਨਾਲਿ ਝਗੜਾ ਮਨ ਹੀ ਨਾਲਿ ਸਥ ਮਨ ਹੀ ਮੰਝਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥
मन ही नालि झगड़ा मन ही नालि सथ मन ही मंझि समाइ ॥
Man hī nāl jẖagṛā man hī nāl sath man hī manjẖ samā*ė.
He fights with his mind, he settles with his mind, and he is at peace with his mind.

So where is the reality to it ? Only in the mind. I'm not surprised that
you mentioned :

What you just stated is complete nihilism and unhealthy for the mind!
A psychological anomaly, a disorder (because we are both sane,
neither you nor I believe it to be true).

So it is part of illusion, you would agree.

 

[Sinister]

This you said it correctly and applies correctly according to the Laws of Nature.
Paper gets recycled by natural laws but man has started to re-cycle paper using chemicals
It is said, that anything used in excess becomes a bad thing. Only nature's processes are safe and healthy.
Nature provides you with a brain. Nature is real so long as you live in the physical body.
The average life span being 85 revolutions around the sun.

Ideas and information conveyed remains latent until someone starts using it. You can either use chemicals for
your benefit or for your destruction. You can use fire either to cook your food or cook a person.
But our brain tells us that there is a difference between the hazards of fire and the hazards of chemicals.

Let's get back to the point where you mentioned ants.
You were pulling my leg, so to speak.
Have you now realized that the drama in a drama is all in the mind ?

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਆਪਣਾ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਸਬਦਿ ਕਸਵਟੀ ਲਾਇ ॥
गुरमुखि आपणा मनु मारिआ सबदि कसवटी लाइ ॥
Gurmukẖ āpṇā man māri*ā sabaḏ kasvatī lā*ė.
The Gurmukh has conquered his own mind, by applying the Touchstone of the Shabad.
ਮਨ ਹੀ ਨਾਲਿ ਝਗੜਾ ਮਨ ਹੀ ਨਾਲਿ ਸਥ ਮਨ ਹੀ ਮੰਝਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥
मन ही नालि झगड़ा मन ही नालि सथ मन ही मंझि समाइ ॥
Man hī nāl jẖagṛā man hī nāl sath man hī manjẖ samā*ė.
He fights with his mind, he settles with his mind, and he is at peace with his mind.

So where is the reality to it ? Only in the mind. I'm not surprised that
you mentioned :

What you just stated is complete nihilism and unhealthy for the mind!
A psychological anomaly, a disorder (because we are both sane,
neither you nor I believe it to be true).

So it is part of illusion, you would agree.

Add context to the list, when I previously spoke of coherency and consistency.

If everything is Hukm then there is no such thing as good and bad. Yet you continue to state

“You can either use chemicals for your benefit or for your destruction.”

If everything is his Hukm then nothing is done for your benefit nor for your destruction…everything is done for his will (nothing else).

So rationally, either you can stick to the statement “everything is his hukm” or you have to discard it like a w*hore in a back ally and bring it out at times of convenience.

Again, a rational human like you and I, do not and will not, ever believe in the predicate:
“There is nothing without his will” (you can fight it and debate it…but we are on the same page, on the same step in our sikhi…along with the rest of the members here)
The question spinning in my head is:
Does this new found equality between you and I, make you feel uncomfortable? :}:


Over here you continue with the contradictions. (Rational contradictions of co{censored}…considering there is no such thing as non-rational contradictions because all non-rational constructions are perfect):

“Only nature's processes are safe and healthy. Nature provides you with a brain. Nature is real so long as you live in the physical body. The average life span being 85 revolutions around the sun.”

So now you are off the skeptical argument? That means you must denounce all the perks and safety nets that come along with it (and you must have claim to knowledge).
You state:
“Nature is real so long as you live in the physical body.”

You also state “Only nature’s processes are safe and healthy”
If you believe this to be true, then consider:
are humans not a part of nature?
Humans, being a part of nature, entails that all of our processes are safe and healthy for “85 revolutions around the sun”.

Either way we have a display of ego or nihilism, once again. (I am very proud of you because these are all signs that you are human...just like myself)

“Have you now realized that the drama in a drama is all in the mind ?”

no it may not be so.
There may exist a drama outside the mind (note: this is a possibility not a certainty). Even if this drama is not of any use to us but it may very well be there. It can’t just be ruled out. (Hope, wonder and amusement plays a great deal in verifying its existence)…and finally we have hit the epistemological gridlock! (internalist vs externalist)

Logically this argument has fallen apart a while ago. Again you do not believe what you state so it impossible to discern what a debate is with you (because debates follow patterns of logic).
So this is not even a debate…never really was

Your original statement:
"OK, just to debate this issue, I have taken the role of defendant and will do my best to defend this statement. How do I start ????"


Is also false. You had no intention of debate nor of being a defendant.

There is something fundamentally wrong with your construction of reality.
But then again, to be fair, there is something wrong with everyone’s construction of reality.

Some more nihilism;
Another trait we share (stating nihilistic statements when we dont beleive in them ourselves)

An Arid Aqueduct
An Atmosphere without Air
An Analysis without An Analogy.

I made all my points and that’s about as far as I go before we run into more agreement and kill a perfectly good display of non-unity (the perfect dramatic ending).

Insincerely yours,
Sinister

 

[Astroboy]

I am very proud of you because these are all signs that you are human...just like myself..........I made all my points and that’s about as far as I go before we run into more agreement and kill a perfectly good display of non-unity (the perfect dramatic ending).

Take it easy, Sinister Ji.

I am happy to realize that we both are seekers of the truth and view things quite similarly no matter how we want to feel different. This conversation is not quite about 85 revolutions nor chemical warfare. But one which tells us how similar we are in our attitudes.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

guys

you spoiled the fun

:inca:

 

[Astroboy]

guys

you spoiled the fun

:inca:

Now that makes us three analytical philosophers, or shall I say, psychologists. :{;o:

 

[Archived_Member_19]

i am an android :inca:


u crazy human beings:inca: