Interfaith Could Nanak Be The Krishna Of Dwaapar Yug?

[Astroboy]

Here's another translation source:

ਅਕਲਿ ਏਹ ਨ ਆਖੀਐ ਅਕਲਿ ਗਵਾਈਐ ਬਾਦਿ ॥
Do not call it Wisdom, that is wasted in wrangling.

ਅਕਲੀ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸੇਵੀਐ ਅਕਲੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਮਾਨੁ ॥
Wisdom is to meditate on the Naam of the Lord through this wisdom one obtains honour.

ਅਕਲੀ ਪੜ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਕੈ ਬੁਝੀਐ ਅਕਲੀ ਕੀਚੈ ਦਾਨੁ ॥
Wisdom is to seek out the intricacies in the Bani, that inspires one to be charitable

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਰਾਹੁ ਏਹੁ ਹੋਰਿ ਗਲਾਂ ਸੈਤਾਨੁ ॥੧॥
Says Nanak, this alone is the true path, all other utterances are devlish.

 

[rabjot_singh@yahoo.co.in]

Dear Sikh80ji,

I do believe that guru nanak never claimed to be an incarnate of vishnu but i don't agree with the view that he was not in favour of teachings of vedas.

Nanak do accept the teachings of vedas but he said that in Kalyuga the teachings of Vedas has been replaced by the words of Guru (Gurbani).

The Vedas also speak of the same lord and i think no where its written that nanak rejected the teachings of Vedas.

The corruption that has occured in hinduism is not because of vedas but because of false spiritual practices being followed by hindu people.

9th Guru says :

बेद पुरान पड़े को इह गुन सिमरे हरि को नामा ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
This is the blessing of studying the Vedas and the Puraanas, that you may meditate on the Name of the Lord. ||1||Pause||
Nanak Says :

घोखे सासत्र बेद सभ आन न कथतउ कोइ ॥
I have searched all the Shaastras and the Vedas, and they say nothing except this:
आदि जुगादी हुणि होवत नानक एकै सोइ ॥१॥
“In the beginning, throughout the ages, now and forevermore, O Nanak, the One Lord alone exists”. ||1||
बेद पुरान सिम्रिति बूझै मूल ॥
He understands the fundamental essence of the Vedas, the Puraanas and the Simritees.
Nanak says :

वेदा महि नामु उतमु सो सुणहि नाही फिरहि जिउ बेतालिआ ॥
In the Vedas, the ultimate objective is the Naam, the Name of the Lord; but they do not hear this, and they wander around like demons.
You will find the following verse also in granth sahib which clearly states that :
बेद कतेब कहहु मत झूठे झूठा जो न बिचारै ॥
Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.
Lord krishna is held in high respect in Granth sahib following verses show that :

[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]हरि आपे कान्हु उपाइदा मेरे गोविदा हरि आपे गोपी खोजी जीउ ॥[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]The Lord Himself created Krishna, O my Lord of the Universe; the Lord Himself is the milkmaids who seek Him.[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]लख चउरासीह जीअ जोनि महि भ्रमत नंदु बहु थाको रे ॥[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]Wandering through 8.4 million incarnations, Krishna's father Nand was totally exhausted.[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]भगति हेति अवतारु लीओ है भागु बडो बपुरा को रे ॥१॥[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]Because of his devotion, Krishna was incarnated in his home; how great was the good fortune of this poor man! ||1||[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]चरन बधिक जन तेऊ मुकति भए ॥[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]The hunter who shot Krishna in the foot - even he was liberated.[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]जुगु दुआपुरु आइआ भरमि भरमाइआ हरि गोपी कान्हु उपाइ जीउ ॥[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]The Brass Age of Dwaapar Yuga came, and people wandered in doubt. The Lord created the Gopis and Krishna. [/FONT][FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]The One Lord Krishna is the Divine Lord of all; He is the Divinity of the individual soul.[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]धनि धनि तू माता देवकी ॥[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]Blessed, blessed are you, O mother Dayvakee;[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]जिह ग्रिह रमईआ कवलापती ॥२॥[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]into your home the Lord (in the form of Krishna) was born. ||2||[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]धनि धनि बन खंड बिंद्राबना ॥[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]Blessed, blessed are the forests of Brindaaban;[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]जह खेलै स्री नाराइना ॥३॥[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]the Supreme Lord (in the garb of Krishna) plays there. ||3||[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]गुरमति क्रिसनि गोवरधन धारे ॥[/FONT] [FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]Through the Guru's Teachings (Here the guru refers to Almighty), Krishna lifted up the mountain of Govardhan[/FONT]

 

[Sikh80]

Dear Rabjot ji,

I am the wrong person with whom you should be discussing these things. I was in confusion sometime ago and preferred to refer to Rehat Maryada as prescribed now for the panth [by SGPC]

[SIZE=-1]THE CODE OF SIKH CONDUCT AND CONVENTIONS[/SIZE]​

Section Four ​

[SIZE=-1]CHAPTER X[/SIZE]​

[SIZE=-1] Living in Consonance with Guru's Tenets (Gurmat Rehni)

Article XVI [/SIZE]​

[SIZE=-1]

A Sikh's living, earning livelihood, thinking and conduct should accord with the Guru's tenets. The Guru's tenets are:

a. Worship should be rendered only to the One Timeless Being and to no god or goddess.

b. Regarding the ten Gurus, the Guru Granth Sahib and the ten Gurus' word alone as saviours and holy objects of veneration.

c. Regarding ten Gurus as the effulgence of one light and one single entity.

d. Not believing in caste or descent untouchabililty, Magic spells, incantation, omens, auspicious times, days and occasions, influence of stars, horoscopic dispositions, Shradh (ritual serving of food to priests for the salvation of ancestor on appointed days as per the lunar calendar), Ancestor worship, khiah (ritual serving of food to priests - Brahmins - on the lunar anniversaries of death of an ancestor) (Two words, shradh and khiah, occuring in this clause connote what appears to be the same thing - the ritual serving of food to the priests (Brahmins). The difference between the connotations of the two words is implicit in the dates on which the ritual is performed. The ritual of serving of food on the lunar anniversary of the death goes by the name khiah; whereas the ritual of serving food on the lunar date corresponding to the date of death during the period of the year designated shradhs is known as sharadh.) pind (offering of funeral barley cakes to the deceased's relatives), patal (ritual donating of food in the belief that that would satisfy the hunger of a departed soul), diva (the ceremony of keeping an oil lamp lit for 360 days after the death, in the belief that that lights the path of the deceased), ritual funeral acts. hom (lighting of ritual fire and pouring intermittently clarified butter, food grains etc. into it for propitiating gods for the fulfilment of a purpose), jag (religious ceremony involving presentation of oblations), tarpan (libation), sikha-sut (keeping a tuft of hair on the head and wearing thread), bhadan (shaving of head on the death of a parent), fasting on new or full moon or other days, wearing of frontal marks on forehead, wearing of thread, wearing of a necklace of the pieces of tulsi (A plant with medicinal properties, Bot, Ocimum sanctum.), stalk, veneration of any graves, of monuments erected to honour the memory of a deceased person or of cremation sites, idolatry and such like superstitious observances (Most, though not all, rituals and ritual or religious observances listed in this clause are hindu rituals and observances. The reason is that the old rituals and practices, continues to be observed by large numbers of Sikhs even after their conversion from their old to new faith and a large bulk of the Sikhs novices were Hindu converts. Another reason for this phenomenon was the strangle hold of the Brahmin priest on Hindus' secular and religious life which the Brahmin priests managed to maintain even on those leaving the Hindu religious fold, by the his astute mental dexterity and rare capacity for compromise. That the Sikh novitiates included a sizeable number of Muslims is shown by inclusion in this clause of the taboos as to the sanctity of graves, shirni etc.)

Not owning up or regarding as hallowed any place other than the Guru's place- such, for instance, as sacred sports or places of pilgrimage of other faiths.

Not believing in or according any authority to Muslim seers, Brahmins' holiness, soothsayers, clairvoyants, oracles, promise of an offering on the fulfillment of a wish, offering of sweet loaves or rice pudding at graves on fulfillment of wishes, the Vedas, the Shastras, the Gayatri,(Hindu scriptural prayer unto the sun) the Gita, the Quaran, the Bible, etc. However, the study of the books of other faiths for general self-education is admissible.

e. The Khalsa should maintain its distinctiveness among the professors of different religions of the world, but should not hurt the sentiments of any person professing another religion.

f. A Sikh should pray to God before launching off any task. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]g. Learning Gurmukhi (Punjabi in Gurmukhi script) is essential for a Sikh. He should pursue other studies also.

h. It is a Sikh's duty to get his children educated in Sikhism.

i. A Sikh should, in no way, harbour any antipathy to the hair of the head with which his child is born. He should not temper with the hair with which the child is born. He should add the suffix "Singh" to the name of his son & "Kaur" to the name of his daughter. A Sikh should keep the hair of his sons and daughters intact.

j. A Sikh must not take hemp (cannabis), opium, liquor, tobacco, in short, any intoxicant. His only routine intake should be food. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]k. Piercing of nose or ears for wearing ornaments is forbidden for Sikh men and women.

l. A Sikh should not kill his daughter; nor should he maintain any relationship with a killer of daughter.

m. The true Sikh of the Guru shall make an honest living by lawful work.
.
n. A Sikh shall regard a poor person's mouth as the Guru's cash offerings box.

o. A Sikh shall not steal, form dubious associations or engage in gambling.

p. He who regards another man's daughter as his own daughter, regards another man's wife as his mother, has coition with his own wife alone, he alone is a truly disciplined Sikh of the Guru. A Sikh woman shall likewise keep within the confines of conjugal rectitude.

q. A Sikh shall observe the Sikh rules of conduct and conventions from his birth right upto the end of his life.

r. A Sikh, when he meets another Sikh, should greet him with "Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh" (Rendered into English:The Khalsa is Waheguru's; victory too is His !). This is ordained for Sikh men and women both.

s. It is not proper for a Sikh woman to wear veil or keep her face hidden by veil or cover
.
t. For a Sikh, there is no restriction or requirement as to dress except that he must wear Kachhehra (A drawer type garment fastened by a fitted string round the waist, very often worn as an underwear.) and turban. A Sikh woman may or may not tie turban.[/SIZE]

One is free to hold the opinions and derive conclusions.

ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਜਾਦਵ ਵੰਸ ਕਰਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਅਉਧ ਘਟੈ ਆਚਾਰਾ ।
In Dvapar, Yadav-dynasty came to the forefront i.e. the incarnation of Krsna became known to the people; but because of the lack of good conduct, Age by Age, the life span(of man) went on decreasing. Line 3

[Vaar-1-Paudi-6-Line-3 In the above Krishna is stated to be part of dynasty only. I do not know much of the meaning of Vaaran, but it is a self derived meaning and conclusion that Krishna that is referred to above cannot be GOD .Kindly correct me if you have any other view.]

Kindly refer to the following and do not be surprised if you find as to how and why the thread was closed.

http://www.sikhism.us/interfaith-dialogues/22308-sikhism-an-offshoot-of-hinduism-15.html


Warm Regards !

 

[rabjot_singh@yahoo.co.in]

Dear Sikh80ji,

I do understand that this issue might be little controversial.

But what i know is that we have to accept the word of granth sahib as the word of guru and not Dasam granth (in which certain controversial things might be written against hindu demi gods infact that may be true as well)

Even in granth sahib also the demi gods like Brahman, Shiva are believed to have suffered at the hands of Maya. Consider following verses :

Kabeer Says

बेद पड़े पड़ि ब्रहमे जनमु गवाइआ ॥१॥
Brahma wasted his life away, continually reading the Vedas. ||1||
सरपनी ते ऊपरि नही बलीआ ॥
No one is more powerful than the she-serpent Maya,
जिनि ब्रहमा बिसनु महादेउ छलीआ ॥१॥
who deceived even Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. ||1||
मैला ब्रहमा मैला इंदु ॥
Brahma is polluted, and Indra is polluted.
Nanak Says
नाभि कमल ते ब्रहमा उपजे बेद पड़हि मुखि कंठि सवारि ॥
From the lotus of Vishnu's navel, Brahma was born; He chanted the Vedas with a melodious voice.
ता को अंतु न जाई लखणा आवत जात रहै गुबारि ॥१॥
He could not find the Lord's limits, and he remained in the darkness of coming and going. ||1||
ईसरु ब्रहमा सेवदे अंतु तिन्ही न लहीआ ॥
Those who serve Shiva and Brahma do not find the limits of the Lord
Third Nanak Says -

ब्रहमै बेद बाणी परगासी माइआ मोह पसारा ॥
Through Brahma, the hymns of the Vedas were revealed, but the love of Maya spread.
महादेउ गिआनी वरतै घरि आपणै तामसु बहुतु अहंकारा ॥२॥
The wise one, Shiva, remains absorbed in himself, but he is engrossed in dark passions and excessive egotism. ||2||
किसनु सदा अवतारी रूधा कितु लगि तरै संसारा ॥
Vishnu is always busy reincarnating himself - who will save the world?
ब्रहमा बिसनु महादेउ त्रै गुण भुले हउमै मोहु वधाइआ ॥
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva wander in the three qualities, while their egotism and desire increase.
ब्रहमा बिसनु महेसु त्रै मूरति त्रिगुणि भरमि भुलाई ॥१६॥
The three forms of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are trapped in the three qualities, lost in confusion. ||16||
Trilochan Says

अनिक पातिक हरता त्रिभवण नाथु री तीरथि तीरथि भ्रमता लहै न पारु री ॥
Shiva, the destroyer of countless sins, the Lord and Master of the three worlds, wandered from sacred shrine to sacred shrine; he never found an end to them.
करम करि कपालु मफीटसि री ॥३॥
And yet, he could not erase the karma of cutting off Brahma's head. ||3||
FOURTH NANAK SAYS -
ब्रहमा बिसनु महादेउ त्रै गुण रोगी विचि हउमै कार कमाई ॥
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva suffer from the disease of the three gunas - the three qualities; they do their deeds in egotism.
जिनि कीए तिसहि न चेतहि बपुड़े हरि गुरमुखि सोझी पाई ॥२॥
The poor fools do not remember the One who created them; this understanding of the Lord is only obtained by those who become Gurmukh
FIFTH NANAK SAYS -
बेद पड़े पड़ि ब्रहमे हारे इकु तिलु नही कीमति पाई ॥
Reading and reciting the Vedas, Brahma grew weary, but he did not find even a tiny bit of God's worth.
दस अउतार राजे होइ वरते महादेव अउधूता ॥
There were ten regal incarnations of Vishnu; and then there was Shiva, the renunciate.
तिन्ह भी अंतु न पाइओ तेरा लाइ थके बिभूता ॥३॥
He did not find Your limits either, although he grew weary of smearing his body with ashes. ||3||
But what is written about Krishna i have already mentioned. I am not saying that krishna is god (that can never be true , he was just a messenger like Nanak or kabir)

But his status might higher than Brahman and Shiva.

regarding sikhism being an offshoot of hindusim, what perhaps is more important to understand is why sikhism came into existence ?what was the need for it?
Why nanak had to start a religion that could take the middle path of hinduism and islam?

Nnanak showed his respect to other religions by incorporating the banis of people from different religions. Sikhism could well be the most secular religion ever.

if God is even beyond the reach of Nanak then how could god be krishna itself?
They were all messengers.

 

[rabjot_singh@yahoo.co.in]

Dear Sikh80ji,

I do understand that this issue might be little controversial.

But what i know is that we have to accept the word of granth sahib as the word of guru and not Dasam granth (in which certain controversial things might be written against hindu demi gods infact that may be true as well)

Even in granth sahib also the demi gods like Brahman, Shiva are believed to have suffered at the hands of Maya. Consider following verses :

Kabeer Says

बेद पड़े पड़ि ब्रहमे जनमु गवाइआ ॥१॥
Brahma wasted his life away, continually reading the Vedas. ||1||
सरपनी ते ऊपरि नही बलीआ ॥
No one is more powerful than the she-serpent Maya,
जिनि ब्रहमा बिसनु महादेउ छलीआ ॥१॥
who deceived even Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. ||1||
मैला ब्रहमा मैला इंदु ॥
Brahma is polluted, and Indra is polluted.
Nanak Says
नाभि कमल ते ब्रहमा उपजे बेद पड़हि मुखि कंठि सवारि ॥
From the lotus of Vishnu's navel, Brahma was born; He chanted the Vedas with a melodious voice.
ता को अंतु न जाई लखणा आवत जात रहै गुबारि ॥१॥
He could not find the Lord's limits, and he remained in the darkness of coming and going. ||1||
ईसरु ब्रहमा सेवदे अंतु तिन्ही न लहीआ ॥
Those who serve Shiva and Brahma do not find the limits of the Lord
Third Nanak Says -

ब्रहमै बेद बाणी परगासी माइआ मोह पसारा ॥
Through Brahma, the hymns of the Vedas were revealed, but the love of Maya spread.
महादेउ गिआनी वरतै घरि आपणै तामसु बहुतु अहंकारा ॥२॥
The wise one, Shiva, remains absorbed in himself, but he is engrossed in dark passions and excessive egotism. ||2||
किसनु सदा अवतारी रूधा कितु लगि तरै संसारा ॥
Vishnu is always busy reincarnating himself - who will save the world?
ब्रहमा बिसनु महादेउ त्रै गुण भुले हउमै मोहु वधाइआ ॥
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva wander in the three qualities, while their egotism and desire increase.
ब्रहमा बिसनु महेसु त्रै मूरति त्रिगुणि भरमि भुलाई ॥१६॥
The three forms of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are trapped in the three qualities, lost in confusion. ||16||
Trilochan Says

अनिक पातिक हरता त्रिभवण नाथु री तीरथि तीरथि भ्रमता लहै न पारु री ॥
Shiva, the destroyer of countless sins, the Lord and Master of the three worlds, wandered from sacred shrine to sacred shrine; he never found an end to them.
करम करि कपालु मफीटसि री ॥३॥
And yet, he could not erase the karma of cutting off Brahma's head. ||3||
FOURTH NANAK SAYS -
ब्रहमा बिसनु महादेउ त्रै गुण रोगी विचि हउमै कार कमाई ॥
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva suffer from the disease of the three gunas - the three qualities; they do their deeds in egotism.
जिनि कीए तिसहि न चेतहि बपुड़े हरि गुरमुखि सोझी पाई ॥२॥
The poor fools do not remember the One who created them; this understanding of the Lord is only obtained by those who become Gurmukh
FIFTH NANAK SAYS -
बेद पड़े पड़ि ब्रहमे हारे इकु तिलु नही कीमति पाई ॥
Reading and reciting the Vedas, Brahma grew weary, but he did not find even a tiny bit of God's worth.
दस अउतार राजे होइ वरते महादेव अउधूता ॥
There were ten regal incarnations of Vishnu; and then there was Shiva, the renunciate.
तिन्ह भी अंतु न पाइओ तेरा लाइ थके बिभूता ॥३॥
He did not find Your limits either, although he grew weary of smearing his body with ashes. ||3||
But what is written about Krishna i have already mentioned. I am not saying that krishna is god (that can never be true , he was just a messenger like Nanak or kabir)

But his status might higher than Brahman and Shiva.

regarding sikhism being an offshoot of hindusim, what perhaps is more important to understand is why sikhism came into existence ?what was the need for it?
Why nanak had to start a religion that could take the middle path of hinduism and islam?

Nnanak showed his respect to other religions by incorporating the banis of people from different religions. Sikhism could well be the most secular religion ever.

if God is even beyond the reach of Nanak then how could god be krishna itself?
They were all messengers.

 

[Sikh80]

Dear Rabjot ji,

Thanks for a detailed reply and coming back to the question posed/raised in the thread I beg to differ from that is proposed/posed by your good self and that is not amenable to change as well. Further I generally do not appreciate any comparison of Gurus with any Hindu Devas. [Apparently,It is my problem and not yours.]

Let someone else may also opine.
I contributed to the extent that I considered fit.

May be, I add on during the progression of the thread.

kyqy pvx pwxI vYsMqr kyqy kwn mhys ] (7-15, jpu, mÚ 1)
So many winds, waters and fires; so many Krishnas and Shivas.

If that be so, which Krishna is being talked about? If it is krishna of Gita, then the scripture should have been recommended by the panth. Since it is not so , it reinforces the belief that Krishna and Nanak cannot be the same. We are back to square one and It is immaterial if Krishna was superior to Shiva or Brahma. If Krishna's teachings were of the level of kabeer we would have found an inkling of His teachings in Bani. It is not so since the 'krishna of Geeta' proclaimed Himself to be the object of Meditation that we as sikhs are not used to as we meditate on the Supremus only.

Right now I give rest to any speculation from my side.


Best Of Regards.!

 

[rabjot_singh@yahoo.co.in]

Dear Sikh80ji,

Let me tell you that i am in no mood to prove whether nanak was krishna or not since its irrelevant & i am not comparing our gurus with any hindu gods and goddesses since even that is trivial thing to do.

The bani presented by you clearly indicates that almighty has created countless shivas, Krishnas , buddhas & nanaks. Even buddha said that there were many buddhas before me and there will be many after me.

Nanak could never have incorporated the teachings of Lord Krishna in Granth sahib when its already there in Gita. There seems no logic in doing it.

Regarding the level of Krishna or kabir as you have written in your message let me inform you sir that Granth sahib includes banis in praise of Krishna but not of great kabir moreover the second largest work within Dasam Granth covers 5297 verses (chaubis avtaar), it recounts the 24 greatest messengers of lord and it includes Krishna but not saint kabir. Although this information is trivial to me since i believe that saint kabir was not less than any great avtaar in any sense but just for your knowledge i have pasted it here.

its a general tendency amongst people to give the status of god to any god realized person. This happened with gautam buddha, with mahavir and infact Krishna. So its not the fault of those great souls.

Thats why so many times demi gods like shiva vishnu and mahesh are shown at the mercy of supreme in Granth sahib and dasam grath so that people will get to know the truth.

Just as nanak was guru to liberate people so was krishna in dwapar yuga. He said come to me & i will liberate you. Just like Granth sahib Gita has to be understood carefully to grasp its real meaning.

Moreover there are modifications in Gita. What we read today is not origina gita. In original it contained lesser verses.

 

[Archived_member7]

Gur Fateh Sangatji

well my feeling is ..the Vedas wered in Samskrit...the so called pundits..had created their own monopoly so that no other could read and understand samskrit and would need to come to them..so that their business would go on..going further these guys were twisting the Bani of the Vedas to their convinience ..

Guru Nanakdevji Maharaj proved their ignorance in this one incident when he asked the Pundit about the water being offered to the sun...

The Eternal Truth of Sanatan Dharam which could be followed in the Kalyug was given to the people by Dhan Guru Nanakdevji Maharaj..thus saving the people from listening to half baked truth

 

[pk70]

Sikhs should devote more time to understand Guru message about the Lord which infuses the Love of the Lord, talk of the town should not carry any importance because
ਨਾਮੇ ਸੁਚਿ ਨਾਮੋ ਪੜਉ ਨਾਮੇ ਚਜੁ ਆਚਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Nāme sucẖ nāmo paṛa▫o nāme cẖaj ācẖār. ||1|| rahā▫o.
that His Name may sanctify you, that His Name may be your study, and His Name your wisdom and way of life. ||1||Pause||
ਮਃ 1
Sikh is asked to listen to Guru
ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਜਿ ਦਿਤਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸੋ ਸੁਣਿਆ ਸਿਖੀ ਕੰਨੇ ॥
Upḏes jė ḏiṯā saṯgurū so suṇi▫ā sikẖī kanne.
The Sikhs listen to the Teachings imparted by the True Guru.
ਮਃ 4

What those incarnations of Vishnu did, Guru ji says quite differently, so sticking to Guru advice will shatter all other illusions. Gurbani also says that all other enlightened ones or not enlightened ones, were as per His Ordinance, we condemn none and we listen to none but Guru.

 

[Sikh80]

Dear Sikh80ji,



Nanak could never have incorporated the teachings of Lord Krishna in Granth sahib when its already there in Gita. There seems no logic in doing it.



Just like Granth sahib Gita has to be understood carefully to grasp its real meaning.

No one should challenge the wisdom of Guru nanak Dev ji. It seems a crime for a guru sikh.

Why should we read Geeta? Panth has rejected these books including Vedas.

Someone recommended me reading Hum Hindu Nahin, Gurmat Gauravta and Gurbani Diyan Laggan Maatran Di Vilakhantaa. These books should be helpful.It was also told that in Gurbani, doing naam simran and seva is the essence ;

And :

Quote "these things are like pandits reading vedas and puranas i.e. as nothing may be higher than reading vedas for brahmins there may be nothing higher than simran and seva for sikhs." Unquote

 

[BhagatSingh]

Nanak could never have incorporated the teachings of Lord Krishna in Granth sahib when its already there in Gita. There seems no logic in doing it.

Why not?

 

[InduBhushanDas]

I'm sorry, can I discuss on the subject here?
I consider myself a devotee of Lord Krishna, though, I was doing philosophy/religious studies, and am looking for common things in religions. So now I am intertested in common views on Vishnu and His avatars in sikhism and vaishnavism.

First, I have to say I am from Ukraine, and we have here a strong influence of Russia and its Christian Orthodox Church. So one man (sectologist) named Dvorkin wrote in his nook that "in sikhism Krishna is considered one of most scary demons. In mythology of jains and buddhists, Krishna is a negative figure. For buddhists Krishna is a head of black demons, enemies of Buddha"

So I am here to find out what is really oppinion of sikhs about Krishna.

As I know, sikhism is a link between abrahamic religions and hinduism, so it may share some christian views (through islam), though not completely, as it largely uses sanskrit words, Vedic names like Prahlad, Vishnu, Krishna, Rama, Nrisimha, Hari, Brahma, Shiva etc.

I made a little research, and found out that Bible starts with words "Elohim created earth and sky". Then, some people say, that Rigveda itself begins with words "Agnim Ile", which means "I worship Agni". Thus Ile has root IL which means "worship". And Elohim comes from sanskrit IL.

Yahweh of Judaism also has parallels with Vedas. In some vedic hymn, there is a prayer to Yahva, who is Agni. Thus Yahwa in translated by some as Lord (meaning Agni). Also Yahwa is addressing all devatas, gods of Vedic pantheon. So Yahweh of Judaism comes from Yahwa of sanskrit.

Now, I see that Ek Omkar is a name of Supreme God in sikhism. That's very good. I love mantra OM. Though, in Krishna consciousness movement, we would say that AUM means Krishna, Radharani and a soul.

So, ultimately OM means Krishna and His energies. This is a gaudiya-vaishnava philosophy of Lord Chaitanya, who is considered as avatara of Krishna by us.

I found more quotes from sikhism - Krishna - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

So I am puzzlede about what view on Krihsna is more acceptable in sikhism. Is he worshippable God for all (or at least most) sikhs? I found in sikh scriptures that Vishnu created all universes, and we agree with it. But Krishna expanded as Maha-Vishnu, then last as Vishnus, from whom Brahmas were created on lotuses. Then Brahma created 14 planetary systems which are known as 7 skies and 7 lands in abrahamic religions.

Bible says that on 3rd day grass or plants were created. This is same as creating Lotuses from navels of Vishnus. Then on 4th day, Elohim (IL) created planets, sun, stars, moon. That is creation of planets by Brahma from seeds which were in lotus.

Well, I can say a lot, I do compare Abrahamic religions with Hinduism, and I thin we can talk about some more common ideas in these religions. It is interesting to me.

 

[rabjot_singh@yahoo.co.in]

No. My interpretation was wrong. Krishna is not Nanak.

 

[sukhsingh]

This stuff annoys me.. Why do people find the need to deify guru sahibs.. Isn't the wonderment of bani special enough?