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Islam Creation In Islam

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japjisahib04

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Jan 22, 2005
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15 Teachings of the Quaran
15.1 What does Islam prescribe for Apostasy?

Q. Islam teaches that people who do not believe should be killed and tortured.

A. Is not IT VIOLENT AZIZ JI. In contradiction to this Gurmat teaches us univeral brotherhood. 'sabhai sanjhival sadhayan' BEING A GOOD MUSLIM HOW MANY SUCH MURDER ARE TAKEN BY YOU AZIZ JI?.

Q. 4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in
the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them
wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,”
(Sahih Bukhari 4.260).

A. Islam believes after Mohammad there will be no more messanger or apostle of God and there will be no more revelations and qoran is final book and no new faith will be born thus still chants kalmah (la elahaa eel lal lallah - Mohd.rasul allah') whereas our apostles are our gurus and eternal living guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib is a living testimony which contradicts above statement. A new faith sikhism is born and which is a REALITY. ANY DOUBT AZIZJI.

Q. Narrated Ikrima:
Ali burnt some people [hypocrites] and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' " Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:

A. WOW - 1984

Narrated 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Q. 8:60 And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to terrorize thereby the enemy of Allah...

A. Get voter list from Congress.

Q. 25:68 ”Those who invoke not, with Allah, any other god, nor slay such life as Allah has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. “(But) the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to him, and he will dwell therein in ignominy,-

A. SO THESE TYPE OF STATEMENT LEAD TO 9/11

Q. 48:29, Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other.
"Unbelievers are those who do no judge according to God's revelations. We decreed for them a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and a wound for a wound"

A. In contradiction to above, Guru Nanak Prays for all "Sarbat" all humanity inclusive there is no believer, no unbeliever no non {censored}. Gurmani tells us, ‘sBu ko aucw AwKIeY nIcu n dIsY koie] ieknY BWfy swijAY iek cwnxu iqhu loie] –Call everyone high, none appears to be low. Everyone has been molded from the same matter and everyone is from same light; Guru Granth ang.62.* In order to dismiss the justification of being believer on the basis of caste, religion Guru Nanak in Japji says the state of believer is so elevated that it cannot be explained that he sees God in each molecules of His creation so the question of discrimination does not arise. Guru Nanak sayeth Sabna Jian Ka Ik datta So Mein Wisar Na Jai – let me not forget that God is the only governor of whole humanity irrespective of any belief.’ Though Nineth Guru didn’t accept Janeu, Janju and tilak, but when it came for humanity, he sacrificed himself for protecting the Hindus, an unprecedented event ever happened in any other religion. Unlike as is the interpretation of other who propagate eye for eye, slave for slave, woman for the woman, Gurbani teaches forgiveness. Hymns of Bhagat Fareed stress, “PrIdw jo qY mwrin mukIAW iqn@w n mwry GuMim ] AwpnVY Gir jweIAY pYr iqn@w dy cuMim ] - do not turn around and strike those who strike you with their fists, instead utilize these same evils which evokes hate in better way so that you control these five evils and merge into God.” - Guru Granth ang.1378.5. Sikhism is the first religion to preach tolerance as a matter of constant virtue even when tolerance leads to personal misfortune. Was there a religion before Sikhism that rose up in arms to protect the religious beliefs of others in history? On the contrary it appears, quran surrah 4 tells Muslims have no unbelieving friends (non muslims). Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. Whereas SGGS does not preach to kill to rule but makes you brave to die for the protection of the poor weak. In modern construction of societies and countries the Sikhism is very valid as it is 100% spiritual and a path to commit to the truth and love of almighty. The spiritual way of living is the only purpose of the religions plus to give some humanitarian guidelines.

Amongs all the religious paighamber Guru Nanak is the only peerwhose living testimony ‘Dera Baba Nanak’, is sacred to all religions as three shrines of Guru Nanak exist in the form of an Islamic grave, a Hindu Samadh and the Sikhs? Angitha. Nowhere else in the world three shrines of a single person co-exist.


Q. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.
Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.

A. wow

Q. Sura 47:4: When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take ransom from them, until War shall lay down her

A. On the contrary we have bhai khannaiya who was applying bandage to the wounded irrespective of whether is from enemy camp and serve them water etc.
Q. 2:230, So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), He cannot, after that, re-marry her until after she has married another husband and He has divorced her.

A. Oh God does it permit women or her approval (with or without protection) whether she wants to become *****.

Q. 4:3, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.

A. Can a man deal justly with more than one woman? Atleast I am not capable off.

Regards Sahni Mohinder
 

Sherab

SPNer
Mar 26, 2007
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Copy & Paste merchants rarely indulge in any discussion. The only response u will get is more copying & pasting from anti-Islamic sites. I would like to stick to the subject of the thread as much as possible.

Some links were given e.g. on science & sikhism in which I asked a question but no one came back. U asked a quick question on Ramadhan, which I answered but u never came back with a response? Hence where is the DISCUSSION taking place? When people resort to copying & pasting which has nothing to do with the thread topic, I feel that they must agree with the subject of the thread and that is why they do what they do to distract and destroy the discussion. I'm not prepared to play that game.
Aziz-ji,

I asked about Ramadan not to DEBATE or discuss it, but out of my curiousity.

Sorry for my lack of clarity on this topic.
 

japjisahib04

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Jan 22, 2005
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Aziz ji Sikhs are forbidden to believe that some days or months like Ramadan are auspicious.Gurbani clearly tells us, “Jab aapan aap aap ur dharai tau sagan apsagan kaha beecharai - When my beloved Divine Husband is immersed and has kept Himself, All-in-all, unto Your Own Heart, then how and who could consider omens to be auspicious or inauspicious ?- Guru Granth 291.13 When you love and remember God, Gurmat says, it is a good day for you, when you ignore Almighty it is a bad day.

Further I already detailed about fasting earlier. Guru Nanak says mission of mankind on Earth is to earn ‘Dharam’ by nurturing love, day and night from the core of heart while singing and contemplating on His virtues and chanting His Name. How can a devotee by fasting, torturing, sufferings or suppressing appetite concentrate or devote to utter His Naam. Gurbani tells us, ‘bhukhai bhagat na keejai yeh mala apni leejai – with empty stomach no one can perform devotional worship.” – Guru Granth ang. 656.13. Gurbani further confirms, all these actions are the cause of deviation, thus it is only a hypocrisy. In relation to fasting Gurbani declared it this way, “Chodaih aan karai pakhand na oh suhaghan na o rand ] - one who fasts and discards food during purnmashi, karva choith, naratai, ramadhan, is practicing hypocrisy. He is like a rolling - stone good for nothing and is neither a happy soul-bride, nor a widow.” - Guru Granth ang. 873.4. Besides it yields no bonus marks. It is not a mean to wash any sins, it is not a mean to fulfill any of your desires, and it is not a mean to please Akal Purakh or merge into Akal Purakh. We pose to abstain from food outwardly but from inside body suffers in pain and are disturbed with fire of desires. It is hypocrisy. On the other hand, if really eaten less, it stabilizes the agitation in mind. This is what Gurbani advises “Sleep little, and eat little; O learner Nanak, this is the essence of wisdom.” - Guru Granth ang.939.4. Thus Gursikhs are fasting everyday. The process described by gurbani does not overload the body and abuse the beautiful machinery/apparatus gifted to us FREE without any effort on our part.

Gurbani thus advises instead us to earn the fruitful rewards by observing the fast of knowing your own self with a pledge not to speak lies at least that day. Gurbani proclaims, “sach varat santokh keerat gian dhayan isnan, deaya devta kheema japmaal tai manas pradhan - the most excellent are those who have Truth as their fast, contentment as their sacred shrine of pilgrimage, spiritual wisdom and meditation as their cleansing bath, kindness as their deity, and forgiveness as their chanting beads.” – Guru Granth ang.1245.11.
Further your revelation, 'Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (between right and wrong).So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (should be made up) by days later.I simply wonder if anytthing is sent to us it is time of celebration or fasting or torturing ourselves.
Furthermore, your comments, 'It reminds us by hunger and thirst and other constraints, to learn god-consciousness (taqwa), from avoiding committing sins by any of our five senses and performing good deeds, learning patience, ability to bear sacrifices, control and discipline ourselves. It also serves to remind us of the hungry in the world, be thankful for what we have. Just come and check the consumption of mutton and other food is almost double during this month - a wastage.
Regards Sahni Mohinder
 

Vikram singh

SPNer
Feb 24, 2005
454
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azizrasul this the best Video, Please, open you eyes and brain, and join her ,or should I send her to U.K. for debate, but you guys will kill her,i think she is safe in USA,I want to meet her,and you should also. here is the video
watch


Enjoy the Islam
 

Vikram singh

SPNer
Feb 24, 2005
454
412
azizrasul, ji (no offence )
check right side all the video, they are around 24 video about ISLAM one by one, and what should i debate,with you, there is nothing in Islam to debate, I got one Muslim forum, it is very good, and Informative and you will like it, it tells about how many people are leaving Islam, in this world and going to different religions you can debate there, and protect Islam in that Forum, since this is Sikh Forum, nobody want to hear about Islam, and your Prophet, Yeah if you want to campare it you are welcome, but in real term
 

ProjectNaad

SPNer
Sep 4, 2007
30
1
Aziz wrote:
But Islam is about submitting ourselves to Allah the Creator. Science was created by Allah, hence it is important in this regard. Of course Islam is about other things as well, but the subject of the topic dealt with creation. U did ask about Ramadhan, but u didn't respond?
ProjectNaad response:
No doubt science was created by Allah but there is no special science in the Quaran
Aziz wrote:
And so on. An important point to consider is that there were many different theories about biology, astronomy, geology, etc. The fact is that Allah as the Creator knows about His creation and in the Qur’an gives only the correct science e.g. Big Bang theory was only known about in the last century. If the Qur’an had not been the work of our Creator, then surely there would have been verses that would have included scientific errors or incorrect science as well as correct science. The same early individuals that the article is based on also came up with incorrect science e.g. But u don’t tackle the science that IS there. Why not, is it because u have little to offer with the science that IS there so u go into science that is not there. There is enough science in the Qur’an to provide the Signs for a believer, that’s what is important. There are many unbelievers who have become believers with the science already contained.

ProjectNaad response:
Stationary Earth in the Quaran:
In Sura An-Naml (27:61) it is stated clearly:
Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode, and placed rivers in the folds
thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is
there any Allah beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not!
In the same vein, Sura Al-Rum (30:25), Sura Fatir (35:41), Sura Luqman (31:10), Sura Al-Baqara (2:22), Sura An-Nahl (16:15) exhorts the Allah’s decree that the earth is completely immovable.


Sun moves around the Earth according to the Quaran:
(18:86): “Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a
muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either
punish or show them kindness.”


Volume 6, Book 60, Number 326: Narrated Abu Dharr:
“Once I was with the Prophet in the mosque at the time of sunset. The Prophet said,
"O Abu Dharr! Do you know where the sun sets?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know
best." He said, "It goes and prostrates underneath (Allah's) Throne; and that is Allah's
Statement:--'And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (decreed). And that is the decree of All-Mighty, the All-Knowing....' (36.38)

Stars mistaken to be shooting Stars in the Quaran

Q. 37: 6/10
”We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars, (For beauty)
and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil spirits, (So) they should not strain
their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side,
Repulsed, for they are under a perpetual penalty, Except such as snatch away
something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.
And


Q. 67: 5
“And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have
made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for
them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.”


The universe as was envisioned by Muhammad had a flat Earth where the sun rises from one end and sets in the muddy waters on the other. In Arabic the word “sama” stands for both heaven and sky. He described the heaven (sky) made of seven layers and placed the stars in the lowest layer, lower than the Moon. He assumed
that the stars are just lamps to adorn the lower heaven that are also used as missiles
to shoot the intruding Jinns. The shooting stars, despite their names are not stars but meteorites that glow when enter the atmosphere of the Earth. But Muhammad, could not see the difference; to him the shooting stars were stars.


Aziz wrote:
I have been continually told that Sikhism and science don’t mix and here we r! Any particular page u want 2 highlight?

ProjectNaad response:
There is plenty of science in the Sikh scriptures. This is a taster.
Creation of the Universe
The currently accepted theory for the creation of the universe is the big bang theory which states that the universe has expanded into its current state from a primordial condition of enormous density and temperature.

The Guru Granth also supports the idea of a big bang and an expanding universe

“In so many ways, He has unfolded Himself. So many times, He has expanded His expansion. Forever and ever, He is the One, the One Universal Creator.” SGGSJ page 276

“God, who expanded His expanse, is within all; I learned this from the True Guru.” SGGSJ page 671

“By His Hukam, the Expanse of the Universe is expanded.” SGGSJ page 760

“The Gurmukh knows that the Lord has expanded the entire expanse” SGGSJ page 1054

Destruction of the Universe
The Guru Granth Sahib also supports the idea of a continuous cycle of creation and destruction of our universe and that our current universe is non-permanent.

“Creation and destruction happen through the Word of the Shabad. Through the Shabad, creation happens again.” SGGSJ page 117

“Nothing of the color and the form of the creation shall remain; the entire expanse is transitory.” SGGSJ page 999

“The entire creation came from God. As it pleases Him, He creates the expanse. As it pleases Him, He becomes the One and Only again.” SGGSJ page 294

The Origins of Life
Accepted theories of the origin of life are that the big band released large amounts of Hydrogen which combined to form Helium and other heavier gases. Water formed with oxygen combining with hydrogen and water led to the evolution of life.

The Guru Granth Sahib also teaches that the universe started with gases which eventually led to the formation of water in turn giving birth to life.

“From the True Lord came the air, and from the air came water. From water, He created the three worlds; in each and every heart He has infused His Light.” SGGSJ page 19

“Know that the creation was formed through air and water” SGGSJ page 1256

Planets, Solar Systems and Galaxies
Astronomy has led to the discovery of billions of galaxies in our universe each of which probably have planets and solar systems like our own.

The Sikh Holy scripture mentions that there are an uncountable amount of planets, solar systems and galaxies in our universe.

“The planets, solar systems and galaxies, created and arranged by Your Hand, sing.” SGGSJ page 6

“There are planets, solar systems and galaxies. If one speaks of them, there is no limit, no end. There are worlds upon worlds of His Creation. As He commands, so they exist.” SGGSJ page 8

“So many worlds beyond this world-so very many!” SGGSJ page 3

“He established the many worlds and skies.” SGGSJ page 184

“I have searched and searched, across so many worlds, but without the Name, there is no peace.” SGGSJ page 255

“Among all lights, I behold Your Form; all the worlds are Your Maya.” SGGSJ page 351

“Many millions are the fields of creation and the galaxies” SGGSJ page 276

“True are Your worlds, True are Your solar Systems.” SGGSJ page 463

Life on other planets
Science has not yet been able to either prove or disprove the existence of life on other planets. However, the Guru Granth Sahib teaches that there are an uncountable amount of planets with many forms of life on them including human forms of life who also worship the primal being.

“In the realm of karma, the Word is Power. No one else dwells there, except the warriors of great power, the spiritual heroes. They are totally fulfilled, imbued with the Lord's Essence. Myriads of Sitas are there, cool and calm in their majestic glory. Their beauty cannot be described. Neither death nor deception comes to those, within whose minds the Lord abides. The devotees of many worlds dwell there.” SGGSJ page 8

“There are beings and creatures in the water and on the land, in the worlds and universes, form upon form.” SGGSJ page 466

Temperature
People have intuitively known about temperature for a long time e.g. that fire is hot and snow is cold. Greater knowledge of temperature was gained as people attempted to work with metals through the bronze and iron ages. Galileo invented the first documented thermometer in about 1592 however this was not available in India.

Nevertheless the Guru Granth Sahib teaches that the boiling point of milk is higher than that of water.

“O mind, love the Lord, as the water loves the milk. The water, added to the milk, itself bears the heat, and prevents the milk from burning. God unites the separated ones with Himself again, and blesses them with true greatness.” SGGSJ page 60

“Just like water, which loves milk so much that it will not let it burn - O my mind, so love the Lord.” SGGSJ page 454

Quantum Field Theory – The Nature of Matter
Science has been used exhaustively to determine the nature and characteristics of matter i.e. whether matter is a wave or a particle. The famous double slit experiment used a set of single electrons (particles) fired one after the other through 2 slits. The result was an interference pattern which is characteristic of a wave and not a particle. This implied that each single electron would go through both slits; through no slits; through just the left slit and through just the right all at the same time!

Quatum field theory explains this by stating that matter is neither a wave nor a particle. It is something more abstract and could be considered as a simultaneous co-existence of all possibilities. This leads to the idea of superposition i.e. all possibilities potentially existing at the same time.

The Sikh scripture mentions the idea of superposition as being an intrinsic part of creation and the creator.

“You have thousands of eyes, and yet You have no eyes. You have thousands of forms, and yet You do not have even one. You have thousands of Lotus Feet, and yet You do not have even one foot. You have no nose, but you have thousands of noses. This Play of Yours entrances me.” SGGSJ page 13

“He Himself is formless, and also formed; the One Lord is without attributes, and also with attributes” SGGSJ page 250

“At the same time, He is both hidden and revealed. For the Gurmukh, doubt and fear are dispelled.” SGGSJ page 1048

Another finding from the famous double slit experiment was that when scientists put cameras at each of the slits to observe the actual slit through which any given electron was passing through they discovered that the electrons behaved like particles and created only 2 bands on a screen instead of an interference pattern! So matter behaved differently when interacting with thoughts or the mind.

The Sikh scripture also goes further to mention that mind or consciousness and matter are interchangeable and that the spirit of God rests within both.

“You Yourself are conscious of Your Creation.” SGGSJ page 1076

“Wherever I look, I see the Lord pervading there, in the union of Shiva and Shakti, of consciousness and matter” SGGSJ page 21

“The distinction between Shiva and Shakti - mind and matter - has been destroyed, and the darkness has been dispelled.” SGGSJ page 163

“He Himself is mind, and He Himself is matter” SGGSJ page 1236

Unified Field Theory
When we move beyond Quantum field theory which is already abstract to try an understand the nature of a quantum field we arrive at something which is pure being, something which is beyond the human intellect, something purely abstract and pure existence. At this point quantum physics begins to sound more like dharma.

The Sikh scripture talks about God as being something intrinsic within the whole of creation, a characteristic of the whole of creation which is also beyond our human intellect and understanding.

“The Wisdom of the Undying Primal Being is beyond comprehension” SGGSJ page 212

“He is beyond calculation, beyond measure, uncountable and unfathomable.” SGGSJ page 292

“Even the great Yogis cannot describe Your Glorious Virtues; they are beyond words.” SGGSJ page 346

“He is heard to be one thing, but He is understood to be something else again; He is beyond description and explanation.” SGGSJ Page 498

“In an instant, You are one thing, and in another instant, You are another. Wondrous are Your ways! You are beautiful, mysterious, profound, unfathomable, lofty, inaccessible and infinite.” SGGSJ page 613

Entanglement
One of the most unusual truths of quantum physics is entanglement. Entanglement destroys the idea of separateness and space.

For example let us imagine that we create two electrons together and we send one electron to the other side of the universe. If we then do something to one of the electrons, the other will respond immediately which implies that both objects are still one.

Sikhism teaches that that everything came from the same point during the creation of our universe and that the creation is like beads bound together with the thread of God consciousness.

“As one thread holds hundreds and thousands of beads, He is woven into His creation. The waves of the water, the foam and bubbles, are not distinct from the water. This manifested world is the playful game of the Supreme Lord God; reflecting upon it, we find that it is not different from Him.” SGGSJ page 485

“He Himself is the thread, and He Himself is the many beads; through His Almighty Power, He has strung the worlds.” SGGSJ page 604

“the whole creation is strung on Your thread.” SGGSJ page 268

So space or maya is thus just a construct that gives the illusion that we are separate.

“Deep within the self is the Light of God; It radiates throughout the expanse of His creation.” SGGSJ page 126

“In the four sources of creation, and in all speech, You dwell. You are dear to the minds of all.” SGGSJ page 130

“He Himself instills the sense of separation within our hearts; He Himself created the Creation.” SGGSJ page 125

“All the creation is His Body, Through and through, He is blended with His creation” SGGSJ page 294

“Fareed, the Creator is in the Creation, and the Creation abides in God” SGGSJ page 1381

Sikhism also derives moral teaches from the idea of oneness or entanglement by teaching that as everything is interwoven and from the same source, we should not indulge in slander of anyone.

“Don't indulge in slander for any reason, for everything is the creation of the Lord and Master.” SGGSJ page 611

Home | Project Naad :: Infinity in Simplicity

 

azizrasul

SPNer
Aug 3, 2007
105
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I asked about Ramadan not to DEBATE or discuss it, but out of my curiousity.

Sorry for my lack of clarity on this topic.
Hmmm. Me thinks u only want 2 discuss things as and when it suits u. Seems strange to ask a question, have it answered, and then get absolutely no response from the questioner at all!!!!

I encourage you to sift through each bit of info and make comments as needed over a period of a few days.

I am not supporting him, but we DO need a discussion.
Do we?

144. (Allah) said: “O Moses! I have chosen thee above (other) men, by the mission I (have given thee) and the words I (have spoken to thee): take then the (revelation) which I give thee, and be of those who give thanks.”
145. And We ordained laws for him in the tablets in all matters, both commanding and explaining all things, (and said): “Take and hold these with firmness, and enjoin thy people to hold fast by the best in the precepts: soon shall I show you the homes of the wicked, - (How they lie desolate).”

146. Those who behave arrogantly on the earth in defiance of right - them will I turn away from My signs: Even if they see all the signs, they will not believe in them; and if they see the way of right conduct, they will not adopt it as the way; but if they see the way of error, that is the way they will adopt. For they have rejected our signs, and failed to take warning from them.
Qur’an - Surah al-A`raaf (The Heights) 7:144-6

And We reveal the Scripture unto thee as an exposition of all things, and a guidance and a mercy and good tidings for those who have surrendered (to Allah).
Qur’an – Surah an-Nahl (The Bee) 16:89

Those who reject our signs are deaf and dumb,- in the midst of darkness profound: whom Allah willeth, He leaveth to wander: whom He willeth, He placeth on the way that is straight.
Qur’an - Surah al-An`aam (The Cattle) 6:39

002.171 The likeness of those who disbelieve (in relation to the messenger) is as the
likeness of one who calleth unto that which heareth naught except a shout and cry.
Deaf, dumb, blind, therefore they have no sense.

002.006 As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is
all one for them; they believe not.

002.007 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a
covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.
 

ProjectNaad

SPNer
Sep 4, 2007
30
1
Hey brother Aziz,

I'm not sure where we are anymore with our discussion? Thanks for clarifying details about Ramadan.

I thought we were talking about the Science in the Quaran and Guru Granth Sahib Ji? Maybe I missed something. apologies i advance if I did.

But hopefully from the above you ae happy to accept that the Quaran has no real science especially when comared to the principles of Quantum Physics mentioned in the Guru Granth Sahib

For more info on Sikhism feel free to visit
Home | Project Naad :: Infinity in Simplicity
 

ProjectNaad

SPNer
Sep 4, 2007
30
1
Salam brother,

Aziz wrote:
To u ur deenm to me mine. Praise be to Allah, the Creator of everything.

ProjectNaad response:
I am perfectly happy for you to remain a good, God fearing and loving Muslim and Inshallah you will also have Allah's blessings so long as you don't preach hate and you learn to love all people unconditionally. This is the key message of Sikhism.

There have been some Muslims who did challenge Sikhism and Inshallah they got landed with the following rebuttals.

http://www.projectnaad.com/wp-content/uploads/leaflets/sikhism_islam_rebuttal.pdf

http://www.projectnaad.com/wp-content/uploads/leaflets/nirgun_sargun_rebuttle.pdf

http://www.projectnaad.com/wp-content/uploads/leaflets/the_mechanics_of_karma_and_transmigration.pdf

Blessings

ProjectNaad
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azizrasul

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Aug 3, 2007
105
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Preaching the TRUTH is always GOOD. Those who r on the RIGHTEOUS path of ISLAM will see favour from Allah, Most Forgiving, insha-allah. Those who r on the WRONG path or r consumed with HATE towards ISLAM and MUSLIMS r at loss and darkness and will suffer the consequences from Allah, Most Just.

The Quran and Science: A Logical Approach

The Qur'an Leads The Way To Science

Miracles of the Quran

However, even a thorough, painstaking search of the entire Qur’an does not show a single verse anywhere in it that supports the scientific reality of the rotation of earth.
The problem with copying & pasting blindly is that some people become easily impressed when they see all these words and they themselves may only skimp thru the post and say well dun. However those who SEEK the TRUTH can c thru all that. If you had written this yourself then u didn’t do a good job in your so called painstaking search. Here’s the verse, which I posted in the thread some time ago. You or wherever u copied & pasted it from quotes the reference of the verse. It’s a neat trick to give the reference and not show the verse. I wonder why? The word coils is significant here.


He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He coils (kawwara) the night upon the day and He coils (kawwara) the day upon the night." He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?
Qur’an – Surah az-Zumar (The Groups) 39:5

According to Allah, the earth is motionless, completely static. Period.
In Sura An-Naml (27:61) it is stated clearly:
Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode, and placed rivers in the folds
thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any Allah beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not!
In the same vein, Sura Al-Rum (30:25), Sura Fatir (35:41), Sura Luqman (31:10), Sura Al-Baqara (2:22), Sura An-Nahl (16:15) exhorts the Allah’s decree that the earth is completely immovable.
The Qur’anic verse 27:61 is referring to the Earth with respect to itself NOT as a planetary body. So u r using the verse out of context? This is a common trick. Nothing new here. 39:5 above shows that the Earth is not motionless as u suggested. I would suggest strongly u read what u copy & paste to save such embarrassment. No 1 will take u seriously.

There is not a single verse, in the Qur’an that states that the earth moves round the sun
So what? The Qur’an doesn’t tell us the number of planets in our solar system either and many other things. If Allah told us about everything, the book would be unreadable as it would take up so much space. You can’t base an argument on the validity of the Qur’an on what is NOT there but what IS there. It seems that such an argument merely shows that u r avoiding the TRUTH that is there but look at stuff that isn’t. That’s completely illogical. Another poster tried this before u and I was not impressed then either.


109. Say: "If the ocean were ink (wherewith to write out) the words of my Lord, sooner would the ocean be exhausted than would the words of my Lord, even if we added another ocean like it, for its aid."
110. Say: "I am but a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your Allah is one Allah: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner.
Qur’an - Surah al-Kahf (The Cave) 109-10

40. That this is verily the word of an honoured messenger;
41. It is not the word of a poet: little it is ye believe!
42. Nor is it the word of a soothsayer: little admonition it is ye receive.
43. (This is) a Message sent down from the Lord of the Worlds.
44. And if the messenger were to invent any sayings in Our name,
45. We should certainly seize him by his right hand,
46. And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart:
47. Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath).
48. But verily this is a Message for the Allah-fearing.
49. And We certainly know that there are amongst you those that reject (it).
50. But truly (Revelation) is a cause of sorrow for the Unbelievers.
51. But verily it is Truth of assured certainty.
52. So glorify the name of thy Lord Most High.
Qur’an - Surah al-Haqqa (The Sure Reality) 69:40-52

(18:86): “Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.”
With such unscientific ideas, it would be inappropriate to consider the Quaran a book
of science.
See this link.

Muhammad claimed that the sun ‘prostrates’ under the throne of Allah for the entire night and seeks His permission to go to its usual work in the morning! Let us read this hadis
Volume 6, Book 60, Number 326: Narrated Abu Dharr:
“Once I was with the Prophet in the mosque at the time of sunset. The Prophet said,
"O Abu Dharr! Do you know where the sun sets?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know best." He said, "It goes and prostrates underneath (Allah's) Throne; and that is Allah's Statement:--
I have read that this is either a weak or false hadith.

“And the earth have We spread out, and placed therein firm hills, and caused each seemly thing to grow therein…” (Sura Al-Hijr 15:19)
Again u r referring to the Earth with respect to itself NOT as a planetary body. So u r using the verse out of context? It’s like comparing apples and oranges and saying look the’re not the same. How silly. Similarly with the other verses quoted.


As I said before it’s easy to copy & paste stuff, but if u r not involved in any debate, there is no discussion. Hence just 2 look at 1 more point in your post before finishing: -

The earth did not even exist when the ‘Big-Bang’ took place—the earth
having been born billion years after the ‘Big-Bang’! The above verses are clearly

referring to earth and sky being "joined" (which doesn't even have a common sense or scientific meaning) together and then being split apart (again meaningless as per
science), and that is all.
Therefore, simply using a few jargons and playing with words in the above verse
(21:30), in no way expresses scientifically, the ‘Big-Bang’ incidence. We learn from
Quantum Physics that, just after the ‘Great’ explosion, the four forces of nature, the
strong nuclear force, the weak nuclear force, electro-magnetic force and the
gravitational force existed as a unified ‘super force.’ Where in the above verse one
can find this scientific truth?
Here u r taking the verse too literally. U can take the impression that the verse is talking about a physical heaven and earth, but u can also take it to mean with regard to the scientific knowledge discovered 80 years ago meaning the raw ingredients of the heavens and the earth, i.e. the ingredients which ultimately would constitute the development of the heavens and the Earth.

Verily We have revealed the Book to thee in Truth, for (instructing) mankind. He, then, that receives guidance benefits his own soul: but he that strays injures his own soul. Nor art thou set over them to dispose of their affairs.
Qur’an – Surah az-Zumar (The Groups) 39:41 See also 109:1-6.

He it is Who has sent down to thee (Muhammad) the Book (Qur’an). In it are verses that are entirely clear (muhkamat ayat); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical (mutashabihat ayat). But those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord (al-fitnah), and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:” and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
Qur’an - Surah al-`Imraan (The Family of `Imraan) 3:7

(Here is) a Book, which We have sent down unto thee, full of blessings, that they may mediate on its Signs, and that men of understanding may receive admonition.
Qur’an - Surah Sad (Sad – Abbreviated Letters) 38:29

A book (Qur’an), which we have revealed to you (Muhammad) so that you may lead the people from out of the darkness’s into the light by their Lord's leave to the path of the All-Mighty, the Praiseworthy.
Qur’an - Surah Ibrahim (Abraham) 14:1 See also 38:87 and 73:1-5.

This is the Book (Qur’an); in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;
Qur’an Surah al-Baqara (The Heifer) 2:2 See also 35:31.

This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that men of understanding may take heed.
Qur’an - Surah Ibrahim (Abraham) 14:52

1. These are verses of the Qur'an, a book that makes (things) clear;
2. A guide: and glad tidings for the believers, -
3. Those who establish regular prayers and give in regular charity, and also have (full) assurance of the hereafter.
4. As to those who believe not in the Hereafter, We have made their deeds pleasing in their eyes; and so they wander about in distraction.
5. Such are they for whom a grievous Penalty is (waiting); and in the Hereafter theirs will be the greatest loss.
6. As to thee, the Qur'an is bestowed upon thee from the presence of one who is wise and all-knowing.
Qur’an - Surah an-Naml (The Ant) 27:1-5

2. A perfect (scripture) to warn of severe retribution from Him, and to deliver good news to the believers who lead a righteous life, that they have earned a generous recompense.
3. Wherein they will abide for ever;
Qur’an - Surah al-Kahf (The Cave) 18:2-3

I am going to be away for 3 months working away from home so I will not be continuing with the thread. Hence those who wish to continue, I pray that u come out of darkness and into the light and obtain forgiveness and salvation.

Anyone who wishes to have a copy of my book (Islam – Pure and Simple), plz send me a private email thru this forum. Here's the Contents list: -

Introduction
The Creation of the Universe
The Creation of Angels, Jinn and Animals
The Creation of Humankind
The Story of Adam and Eve
The Creator - Allah
The House of God
The Children of Adam and Eve
Prophets
Noah (peace be upon him)
Abraham (peace be upon him)
Moses (peace be upon him)
Jesus (peace be upon him)
Muhammad (peace be upon him)
Other Prophets (peace be upon them)
The Scriptures
The Five Pillars of Islam
Shahadah – Declaration of Faith
Salah – Worship of Allah
Zakah - Charity
Saum - Fasting
Hajj - Pilgrimage
Jihad
Death and the Hereafter
The End of the Universe
Conclusions
Recommended Literature and Links
How to Perform the Prayer
Prophets of Allah, as Mentioned in the Qur’an
Frequency of Prophets names in the Qur’an
Family Tree of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
Lineage of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
The Attributes of God
 

Vikram singh

SPNer
Feb 24, 2005
454
412
AZIZ Rasul one more NEWS from Those who r on the RIGHTEOUS path of ISLAM will see favour from Allah

The Voice of the Martyrs - News



Enjoy your Religion
One Good Quote for You,

What is the difference between SMART and BRILLIANT

Smart is believing only half of what you hear,
Brilliant is Knowing which half to Believe



so you know what I mean
 

Vikram singh

SPNer
Feb 24, 2005
454
412
One more Good site of Islam, AZIZ Rasul

Many muslims leave Islam because realise what they were believing in and what it is all about. All muslims have a blind faith and they are taught not to question God or his prophet. They all have fear of trying to believe in different things or trying to explore other religions, also, most importantly, they are afraid of others.

Islam, when you closely explore the religion and its Quran, you will find a lot of hatred, injustice, discrimination and violence.
For verses and more info check Prophet of Doom - Islam's Terrorist Dogma in Muhammad's Own Words
Islamic Quotes.
 

ProjectNaad

SPNer
Sep 4, 2007
30
1
Aziz wrote:
Preaching the TRUTH is always GOOD. Those who r on the RIGHTEOUS path of ISLAM will see favour from Allah, Most Forgiving, insha-allah. Those who r on the WRONG path or r consumed with HATE towards ISLAM and MUSLIMS r at loss and darkness and will suffer the consequences from Allah, Most Just.

The Quran and Science: A Logical Approach

The Qur'an Leads The Way To Science

Miracles of the Quran

ProjectNaad response:
I have no hate towards you but in’shallah I pray that GuruJi guides the Muslim community from the haram they are currently doing at a global level on Mother Earth to their fellow human beings. Thanks for the links.

Aziz wrote:
Quote:
However, even a thorough, painstaking search of the entire Qur’an does not show a single verse anywhere in it that supports the scientific reality of the rotation of earth.
The problem with copying & pasting blindly is that some people become easily impressed when they see all these words and they themselves may only skimp thru the post and say well dun. However those who SEEK the TRUTH can c thru all that. If you had written this yourself then u didn’t do a good job in your so called painstaking search. Here’s the verse, which I posted in the thread some time ago. You or wherever u copied & pasted it from quotes the reference of the verse. It’s a neat trick to give the reference and not show the verse. I wonder why? The word coils is significant here.

He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He coils (kawwara) the night upon the day and He coils (kawwara) the day upon the night." He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?
Qur’an – Surah az-Zumar (The Groups) 39:5

ProjectNaad response:
Again our zealous Muslims are trying to show the Quaran having “extra” meanings which don’t exist. The above sura is simply stating that the day is followed by the night and the night is followed by the day. This is what 3 different Muslim scholars have translated this sura. Nothing about Earth movement here I’m afraid.
039.005
YUSUFALI: He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?
PICKTHAL: He hath created the heavens and the earth with truth. He maketh night to succeed day, and He maketh day to succeed night, and He constraineth the sun and the moon to give service, each running on for an appointed term. Is not He the Mighty, the Forgiver?
SHAKIR: He has created the heavens and the earth with the truth; He makes the night cover the day and makes the day overtake the night, and He has made the sun and the moon subservient; each one runs on to an assigned term; now surely He is the Mighty, the great Forgiver.
The word for rotation or movement in Arabic is “Falak” and the word for Earth is “Ard”. Show me one instance where both of these words appear together in the quaran.
Aziz wrote:
Quote:
According to Allah, the earth is motionless, completely static. Period.
Quote:

In Sura An-Naml (27:61) it is stated clearly:
Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode, and placed rivers in the folds
thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any Allah beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not!
In the same vein, Sura Al-Rum (30:25), Sura Fatir (35:41), Sura Luqman (31:10), Sura Al-Baqara (2:22), Sura An-Nahl (16:15) exhorts the Allah’s decree that the earth is completely immovable.
The Qur’anic verse 27:61 is referring to the Earth with respect to itself NOT as a planetary body. So u r using the verse out of context? This is a common trick. Nothing new here. 39:5 above shows that the Earth is not motionless as u suggested. I would suggest strongly u read what u copy & paste to save such embarrassment. No 1 will take u seriously.
ProjectNaad response:
I’m not playing tricks here my friend I’m just stating the truth as it is. Okay lets assume that I take your word for it and I believe that the Quaran in referring to the Earth as immovable. Have you heard of Earth Quakes? Does the Earth move relative to itself during an Earthquake? Have you heard of plate tectonics? The planets crust is moving all the time. So either way you look at this statement in the Quaran it is wrong.
Aziz wrote:
Quote:
There is not a single verse, in the Qur’an that states that the earth moves round the sun
So what? The Qur’an doesn’t tell us the number of planets in our solar system either and many other things. If Allah told us about everything, the book would be unreadable as it would take up so much space. You can’t base an argument on the validity of the Qur’an on what is NOT there but what IS there. It seems that such an argument merely shows that u r avoiding the TRUTH that is there but look at stuff that isn’t. That’s completely illogical. Another poster tried this before u and I was not impressed then either.

109. Say: "If the ocean were ink (wherewith to write out) the words of my Lord, sooner would the ocean be exhausted than would the words of my Lord, even if we added another ocean like it, for its aid."
110.
Say: "I am but a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your Allah is one Allah: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner.
Qur’an - Surah al-Kahf (The Cave) 109-10


ProjectNaad response:
Okay I’m sorry I didn’t impress you on this next point. I do agree that just because the Quaran doesn’t say that the Earth moves round the sun that it invalidates the Quaran. But the point I have made is that there is NO SCIENCE in the Quaran. So far your one point regarding Earth movement has been thrown out. Have you got any others?
Aziz wrote:
Quote:
(18:86): “Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.”
Quote:
With such unscientific ideas, it would be inappropriate to consider the Quaran a book
of science.
See this link.
ProjectNaad response:
That’s an interesting interesting explanation of that and I’m happy to accept it. It still doesn’t show science in the Quaran though.
Aziz wrote:
Quote:
Muhammad claimed that the sun ‘prostrates’ under the throne of Allah for the entire night and seeks His permission to go to its usual work in the morning! Let us read this hadis
Quote:

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 326: Narrated Abu Dharr:
“Once I was with the Prophet in the mosque at the time of sunset. The Prophet said,
"O Abu Dharr! Do you know where the sun sets?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know best." He said, "It goes and prostrates underneath (Allah's) Throne; and that is Allah's Statement:--
I have read that this is either a weak or false hadith.
ProjectNaad response:
Good at least you acknowledge that much!
Aziz wrote:
Quote:
“And the earth have We spread out, and placed therein firm hills, and caused each seemly thing to grow therein…” (Sura Al-Hijr 15:19)
Again u r referring to the Earth with respect to itself NOT as a planetary body. So u r using the verse out of context? It’s like comparing apples and oranges and saying look the’re not the same. How silly. Similarly with the other verses quoted.


ProjectNaad wrote:
When the Quaran was written people did not know that the Earth was round. They thought the Earth was flat and these 2 verses from the Quaran support a flat Earth model:

“And the earth have We spread out, and placed therein firm hills, and caused each seemly thing to grow therein…” (Sura Al-Hijr 15:19)

Who hath appointed the earth as a bed and hath threaded roads for you therein and hath sent down water from the sky and thereby We have brought forth divers kinds of vegetation,…” (Sura Ta Ha 20:53)

It doesn’t matter whether you consider the Earth with respect to itself or as a planetary body in this instance. Flat is Flat.

Aziz wrote:
As I said before it’s easy to copy & paste stuff, but if u r not involved in any debate, there is no discussion. Hence just 2 look at 1 more point in your post before finishing: -
Quote:
The earth did not even exist when the ‘Big-Bang’ took place—the earth
Quote:
having been born billion years after the ‘Big-Bang’! The above verses are clearly

referring to earth and sky being "joined" (which doesn't even have a common sense or scientific meaning) together and then being split apart (again meaningless as per
science), and that is all.
Therefore, simply using a few jargons and playing with words in the above verse
(21:30), in no way expresses scientifically, the ‘Big-Bang’ incidence. We learn from
Quantum Physics that, just after the ‘Great’ explosion, the four forces of nature, the
strong nuclear force, the weak nuclear force, electro-magnetic force and the
gravitational force existed as a unified ‘super force.’ Where in the above verse one
can find this scientific truth?
Here u r taking the verse too literally. U can take the impression that the verse is talking about a physical heaven and earth, but u can also take it to mean with regard to the scientific knowledge discovered 80 years ago meaning the raw ingredients of the heavens and the earth, i.e. the ingredients which ultimately would constitute the development of the heavens and the Earth.


ProjectNaad wrote:
Okay but it doesn’t say raw materials It says Heaven and Earth. You can imply whatever you like but again there is no miracle in the quaran here.

Aziz wrote:
He it is Who has sent down to thee (Muhammad) the Book (Qur’an). In it are verses that are entirely clear (muhkamat ayat); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical (mutashabihat ayat). But those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord (al-fitnah), and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:” and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
Qur’an - Surah al-`Imraan (The Family of `Imraan) 3:7


ProjectNaad wrote:
Read the laws regarding inheritance I posted. They are the most unclear laws on the planet.

Aziz wrote:
(Here is) a Book, which We have sent down unto thee, full of blessings, that they may mediate on its Signs, and that men of understanding may receive admonition.

Qur’an - Surah Sad (Sad – Abbreviated Letters) 38:29


ProjectNaad wrote:
What signs? If you claim there was science in the Quaran then show us where it is. Your above points have not shown any science.

Aziz wrote:
A book (Qur’an), which we have revealed to you (Muhammad) so that you may lead the people from out of the darkness’s into the light by their Lord's leave to the path of the All-Mighty, the Praiseworthy.

Qur’an - Surah Ibrahim (Abraham) 14:1 See also 38:87 and 73:1-5.


ProjectNaad wrote:
Ahh yes darkness. Have you read the posting regarding the not-so-nice teachings of the Quaran. How does that fit with this statement?

Aziz wrote:
This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that men of understanding may take heed.

Qur’an - Surah Ibrahim (Abraham) 14:52


ProjectNaad wrote:
Again maybe just have a quick read through the laws on inheritance.



To summarise:
1) The quaran has numerical errors in the rues of inheritance
2) The quaran has no science
3) The quaran teaches hate


www.ProectNaad.com
 
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