Controversial Curse, Black Magic (aka Toona) And Evil Spirits

[Ishna]

Superstitions and black magic are only effective in the mind of the believer - total and utter psychology, there is nothing more or less magical about any of it, imho (says the former superstitious, magic-wielding neo-Pagan). If you look into the history of a lot of superstitions, they came about as logical warnings at first - 'don't walk under the ladder, you might bump it and the person on the ladder will fall down' - that is if you care about the person on the ladder, which most self-centred people don't... so switch it around to something they WILL care about 'don't walk under the ladder, you'll get bad luck', suddenly people won't walk under your freakin' ladder. Also there's the whole 'I might drop my hammer/paint can/window washer/gutter leaves on you' factor - that wouldn't be bad luck - that would be poor planning!

Black cat superstition comes from the plague - where there's cats there's rats, where there's rats there's plague, etcetcetc.

If superstitions had any tiny shred of truth in them they would be universal - but the Egyptians certainly had no problems with black cats, they loved them!

Things will happen to you because they just happen - in life you have to do the best with what you have in the situations that present themselves and leave the rest up to God.

Superstitions, magic, fortune-telling, all clearly anti-Gurmat and not worth a shred of your attention.

Maybe some of you have noticed that on some residential streets you find a pair of sneakers (trainers or athletic shoes) with shoelaces tied hanging on the phone or power lines!!

In my country, shoes on the powerlines is indicative of a drug dealer residing nearby!

 

[Luckysingh]

I totally agree with what you are saying, I firmly have the same view like the rest of us.
I was trying to point out and differentiate between these superstitions whichI think will remain unstoppable in some cases and the difference between black magic and using medium activities to try and contact the other side.

 

[Archived_member14]

Ambers ji,

Dear Confused Ji
I am happy to take up the question of karma and address your ideas above, but perhaps in a new thread based on your post, if you wish? I am not opposed to karma personally and we may find some common ground. Rather I acted on Harry Ji's post and the wiki page, which reads:

Link: http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Karma

That was enough for me to take a new approach in answering the OP, on the grounds that the original poster is a Sikh and my earlier post may not have been appropriate if the wiki is right. The advice might be wrong or fraught with metaphysical issues, but it was an attempt to help and can be easily discarded.

Best wishes.

Thank you for your clarification. I wondered what it was that Harry ji said that caused you to change your mind.
Harry ji said that it was just his personal opinion, and I think that this quote from Sikhiwiki should also be considered personal opinion of the author/s. I have yet to be convinced that the different references to karma and cycle of birth within the Sikh texts are only teaching tools and not meant to be taken literally. Besides it is a fact that there are more Sikhs who believe in the idea of karma (although not correctly understood) than those who do not. Some of these would even say, “Don't listen to those people. What is their basis for morality if they do not believe in karma?!”

My intent has been, if not to encourage a correct understanding about karma, to at least lead those who read in to question their own understandings. Of course there is not going to be any visible change, but I do believe that so long as my messages are still being read, this means that some effect must be taking place.

I do not therefore agree with your approach. You chose to leave out karma because you believe that the other person does not believe in it. You then tried to help by limiting your reference only to those principles which you think he believes in. Had you truly understood karma as a truth, you'd see that this is not only unhelpful, but actually perpetuates the problem, namely that of ignorance, attachment and wrong understanding. If karma is a truth and the person lacks knowledge / understanding of this, how then can leaving out Karma and going on to say that, “life is easier without karma” lead to any good? If it is not about the truth, then one ends up catering to ignorance and craving, is it not?

Yes Ambers ji, I am interested in discussing about Karma with you. So do go ahead and start a new thread.

 

[Ishna]

Confusedji

Yes, further discussion of karma in detail would be best conducted in another thread - personally I think you've made your point here.

However I can't help but make the observation that in the same way you say

I think that this quote from Sikhiwiki should also be considered personal opinion of the author/s.

it might be prudent to keep in mind that technically your understanding of karma is also your own personal opinion, and others are also entitled to their own opinions and to form their own understanding of Truth based on their own discernment and experiences. Espousing your own understanding as the only truth can make for a bit of a one-sided discussion, IMHO.

 

[Kamala]

These people are also part of those groups that PROMOTE all this Numerology/strology/astral travel etc etc etc....part and parcel fo Brain wahsing towards black and white Magic...

http://www.sikharchives.com/?p=14790

I know you may not believe in it (I don't believe in it either), but I don't see why you cannot do it just for "fun"?

 

[Archived_member14]

Ishna ji,

Yes, further discussion of karma in detail would be best conducted in another thread - personally I think you've made your point here.

However I can't help but make the observation that in the same way you say

Quote: I think that this quote from Sikhiwiki should also be considered personal opinion of the author/s.

it might be prudent to keep in mind that technically your understanding of karma is also your own personal opinion,

Technically? I don't see how you can compare the two.
When I suggested that what the sikhiwiki states is personal opinion, I also pointed out that there are Sikhs who do believe in karma and also that I have yet to be convinced that the reference to karma and cycle of existence in the Sikh texts are to be taken as teaching tools only. In any case, this is about drawing a conclusion from a set of teachings which therefore involves much study of the scholarly kind.

On the other hand, I in talking about karma am not only referring to a concept which all Buddhists accept, but more importantly, to that which can be understood by anyone regardless of what he or she is doing “now”. Had it been that I was talking about whether or not the Buddha taught karma, perhaps then you can be justified in making the comparison. Or is it that in suggesting that my understanding of karma is only my opinion, you are implying that you've heard interpretations by other Buddhists which appear equally if not more reasonable? If so, then you should bring it up for discussion. Until you do this however, your saying that mine is only a personal opinion is meaningless.

and others are also entitled to their own opinions and to form their own understanding of Truth based on their own discernment and experiences.

You see Ishna ji, it may be that the message has not gotten across to you. But as I said in my last post, if it was not the case that my perception with regard to karma and all other concepts that I bring up here, is that this is truth / reality, I would not be motivated to express myself in this or any other forum. If I thought with regard to my understanding about karma, that this is only opinion, what use would it be to tell anyone about it? It is because the perception is that it is “truth” and it is because I believe that only the truth is worth knowing and the cure for all problems, that I spend time in typing all these messages.

What you state above therefore means absolutely nothing to me. If you or anyone here are offended by my assertions, this is not because I am trying to take away any rights from anyone. The reason that you think that this is what is happening is perhaps because you believe that mine is only a personal opinion and that I should also perceive it as such. But I don't, and I think that it is because you do not know the truth. Therefore when you state, “form their own understanding of Truth based on their own discernment and experiences”, I perceive this as nonsense suggestion.

Espousing your own understanding as the only truth can make for a bit of a one-sided discussion, IMHO.

Well don't people here think that Sikhi teaches the Truth which no other religion teaches, and don't you see a huge difference to Buddhist teachings? And have I not been here long enough not to need to beat around the bush anymore? Actually I've often had the impression of talking with no one listening to me. ;-)

 

[Astroboy]

Watch Darren Brown's video clip

Scientology Brainwashing - Derren Brown - Something Wicked This Way Comes (Ending) - YouTube

 

[Harry Haller]

I know you may not believe in it (I don't believe in it either), but I don't see why you cannot do it just for "fun"?

Kamalaji

Is it fun when people are so scared they will give good money to a charlatan who promises them the world?
Is it fun when you are convinced of your back luck, and pay fortunes to have it reversed?
Is it fun to be in love with someone, and then have it dashed because some bearded fool in loon pants, believes the birthdays are mismatched?

Doing this for fun seems strange.. what else do you do for fun Bhenji?

 

[Ishna]

Confusedji

My comparison is not regarding your understanding of karma, it's regarding the presentation of your opinion as the only truth and fact. It is a Buddhist opinion and you seem to be telling everyone here that we're ignorant and that our beliefs are false because some of us may not agree with you.

You see Ishna ji, it may be that the message has not gotten across to you.

Ditto.

Well don't people here think that Sikhi teaches the Truth which no other religion teaches, and don't you see a huge difference to Buddhist teachings?

No, Sikhi teaches that Truth is universal - it can be perceived by anyone regardless of their religion.

And yep, there is a big difference between Sikh and Buddhist teachings and frankly I'm not interested in the Buddhist ones - that's why I'm here!

Actually I've often had the impression of talking with no one listening to me. ;-)

I for one prefer to have discussion rather than read pages of one person's understanding presented as infalliable fact.

I think I've made my point and will now be quiet.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

I like it when someone admits to belief IN.... a lot in FUN...devis, devtas, bhgwaans..witches, goblins, satan, blood sucking vampires..dracula harry potter.. becasue ALL THESE from A-Z are really the SAME THING...FUN and Entertainment..ONLY TRUTH is AKAL PURAKH...and that is a SERIOUS SUBJECT.

 

[Archived_member14]

Ishnaji,

My comparison is not regarding your understanding of karma, it's regarding the presentation of your opinion as the only truth and fact. It is a Buddhist opinion and you seem to be telling everyone here that we're ignorant and that our beliefs are false because some of us may not agree with you.

For you it is an opinion, this is understandable. It is because you do not understand what I understand, which is that karma is a truth, against which every objection, because these point to what I consider wrong view, is seen as wrong and coming from ignorance. It is not simply because you and others disagree with me. Given this, how can you expect me to consider what I think about karma as only my opinion?

Quote: Well don't people here think that Sikhi teaches the Truth which no other religion teaches, and don't you see a huge difference to Buddhist teachings?

No, Sikhi teaches that Truth is universal - it can be perceived by anyone regardless of their religion.

Well you are changing the issue. It is not about whether the truth is universal and applicable to all, but whether it was taught by anyone else.

And yep, there is a big difference between Sikh and Buddhist teachings and frankly I'm not interested in the Buddhist ones - that's why I'm here!

So, the universal truth is taught in Sikhi and not in Buddhism…?

Quote: Actually I've often had the impression of talking with no one listening to me. ;-)

I for one prefer to have discussion rather than read pages of one person's understanding presented as infalliable fact.

But still you read, and this is good enough for me. ;-)
If it is the Truth, then it must be infallible. But what is better, expressing the truth clearly and directly although this may put some people or even everyone off, or being indirect, hence opening the way for misinterpretation whereby the Truth is then understood wrongly and believed in?

 

[Ishna]

Confusedji

We are chasing our tails with this discussion. I disagree with your presentation of the 'facts' as you understand them and judgement of other people's understanding as false, end of story.

If you want to continue, we can do so in PM, but as I said previously, I've already made my point and won't post about this anymore.

 

[harcharanjitsinghdhillon]

when nothing was created yet, there was no karmas at all, only the lord was there in unmanifested form.. when the lord manifested, creation came into action, souls were created.. the expanse of the creation is very large.. souls were placed in maya, and were subjected to law of karmas..the universal mind is the one who had subjected the law of karmas to the souls.. but the good waheguru lord has placed his naam there, so it is only thru the naam the soul can earned an escape from maya- the 3 loks..

 

[Berton]

Sorry that I ressurect such an old thread, but it's very interesting and I want to say thanks for eveyrone who shared their thoughts. I learned many wise thoughts from here. There was a funny analogy with Lady Gaga. I can say that when I think about her, the first thought that comes to my mind is injustice towards the fact that she became so rich (just read this article about her incomes http://celebtopnetworth.com/singers/lady-gaga-net-worth) due to her outrageous look. Ok, I agree that she has a talent too, but not is the thing that most people like her for. However, I just accept this fact and realize that this is the way of the world, whether it's fair or not. I'm trying to live my own life and don't think about success or failure of other people.

 

[sikh Engineer]

Sat Sri Akal ji. Right now i am going through toughest time of my life. A life changing business opportunity gets cancelled for no reason , it happened 2-3 times. I rather never been to rock bottom like right now. I am not too much into superstitions but in last 3 days nearly 3 people suggested me to GET MYSELF ChECKED , AS ki kisi syanay nu dikha le.

So i really need a guidance. Is an ardas to akal purkh is nothing. What does guru ji or granth saheb said anything about it. I av earlier seen a lot babas gone to places and i had concluded dat tjere are certain tjings not normal but tjere is notging tjat wajeguru can jandle.

Or is getting into well of superstitions necessary to weed out lifes problems. I would like to know references of guru jis in this context i want to know opinions.

Brother Sajsikhji,
After reading your thread I just remember my problems in life which I was facing since 1993 and brother you know that time I was not having faith in my religion(sikhi). I went through a very rough phase of my life nothing was happening in my way. then around in 1999 one lady who is our neighbor took me to one BABA who hold my thumb and said that someone is after you he does not want you to settle down all problems you are facing is created by him ad since 1992 he is after you. so he told me I will help you in that then he called me again next week. when I came I met one gentlemen who is student of this BABA he told me brother go back and have faith in GOD I said your BABA ji have powers I saw many people getting cured here then he said many people come with their problems, some got cured within 1 day some within 4 day and some are coming since one year and BABA ji is not able to cure them. what you have to say about this if BABA ji have full powers then the guy coming since one year should got cured, I felt his point is valid and I though he is right in saying that if BABA ji is having powers then why he was not able to sort out the problems of that guy who is coming from one year, then he replied you know why BABA ji is not able to do that because he is not supreme only almighty GOD is supreme he got all the powers. again he told me that when time will come this guy who is coming since one year will be cured and that time is defined by GOD no other human being can do anything for him except GOD.He has to wait for that time to sort out his problem and if he wants he can come to BABA ji but he will get cured only when his time will come. so brother that was lesson for me I thought somewhere he is right and I personally saw whenever I got problems I use to go to so called BABA's but nothing came out positively, then a day come when I reject every BABA and submit myself to Waheguru.

I also want to clear look whatever problems we got we have to face them and it is up to us how we take it if we accept the hukam of Wahegur then these problems vanish easily and if we oppose it then we really feel it. So brother its my advised have faith in Waheguru do path remember Wahegur

 

[Manmukh sikh]

Sat Sri Akal ji. Right now i am going through toughest time of my life. A life changing business opportunity gets cancelled for no reason , it happened 2-3 times. I rather never been to rock bottom like right now. I am not too much into superstitions but in last 3 days nearly 3 people suggested me to GET MYSELF ChECKED , AS ki kisi syanay nu dikha le.

View attachment 19602

So i really need a guidance. Is an ardas to akal purkh is nothing. What does guru ji or granth saheb said anything about it. I av earlier seen a lot babas gone to places and i had concluded dat tjere are certain tjings not normal but tjere is notging tjat wajeguru can jandle.

Or is getting into well of superstitions necessary to weed out lifes problems. I would like to know references of guru jis in this context i want to know opinions.

Hi G
Have a khand paath ,and keep sukmani sahib running 24..7
Give what u can afford 2 charity WaheGuru will erase negativity from your life WGKWGF

 

[Ishna]

Hi G
Have a khand paath ,and keep sukmani sahib running 24..7
Give what u can afford 2 charity WaheGuru will erase negativity from your life WGKWGF

Ji, How does having paath running 24/7 help in this kind of situation, especially if no one is listening to it, or if they can't understand it?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Ji, How does having paath running 24/7 help in this kind of situation, especially if no one is listening to it, or if they can't understand it?

Good point!