Dancing To Shabads

[Parma]

Tajwant ji,

Sir your an elder by performance I do not understand what is meant. As in regards to people attending service and seva that is another issue altogether. I don't understand weird systems or understandings. I don't perform I am who I am, I am Parma Nagra. What performance? I never got paid! Sorry but when explaining something to me you have to be blunt Sir I speak plainly.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

They aren't the only ones, check out these precious gems

Neeldharis?? I see the blue turbans and blue cumberbunds...

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Tajwant ji,

Sir your an elder by performance I do not understand what is meant. As in regards to people attending service and seva that is another issue altogether. Also I have learnt that certain performances are attributes to the failure of 3 abrahamic churches as a sign of female domination finance. I'm not here to sell or transfer orders just a human being living my life and hopefully one day the right female partner comes along to fulfill my wishes for an honest everlasting relationship. I

Parma ji,

Guru Fateh.

By 'Performace' I mean, after a heart/mind touching Keertan or Katha

 

[ActsOfGod]

Neeldharis?? I see the blue turbans and blue cumberbunds...

Yep, complete with their own rehat too. Ain't it just grand?

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Neeldhari_Panth#Rehat

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Yep, complete with their own rehat too. Ain't it just grand?

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Neeldhari_Panth#Rehat

It is a cult in the guise of Sikhi. Simply put. Otherwise they will call themselves Sikhs only.

 

[ActsOfGod]

It is a cult in the guise of Sikhi. Simply put. Otherwise they will call themselves Sikhs only.

Tejwant ji, all these various groups and factions and internal and external enemies of the Panth have so successfully splintered the Quom and bamboozled and brainwashed the people, so that we, today, are sad witness to such pakhand and beadbi of our beloved Guru Sahib, on the very same earth that they walked not so long ago.

Some folks will blame the people for following the baba's, etc. But that is only part of the issue. When there is such an organized, concerted, and pervasive effort to destroy a people and their history, it's no wonder that things are in such a sorry state as they are.

I know none of this is news to you or anyone else. But it breaks one's heart to see it, nonetheless.

Guru Sahib Kirpa karan, that we may all come to our senses, before things go beyond the pale (or perhaps they have already).

[AoG]

 

[Harry Haller]

Tejwant ji, all these various groups and factions and internal and external enemies of the Panth have so successfully splintered the Quom and bamboozled and brainwashed the people, so that we, today, are sad witness to such pakhand and beadbi of our beloved Guru Sahib, on the very same earth that they walked not so long ago.

Your absolutely right, its all these groups fault, and they are all our enemies, how they must look at the way we run our own houses and Gurdwaras with envy!

It is easy to blame everyone else, to blame our enemies, but at the end of the day we are talking about interpretation, we ourselves commit the biggest sin by not living the SGGSji, it is worshiped, read, mumbled, it is paid to be read and mumbled, but few seem interested in living it. I refuse to condemn others practices until our own are perfect.

 

[Parma]

Parma ji,

Guru Fateh.

By 'Performace' I mean, after a heart/mind touching Keertan or Katha.

Tajwant ji, I was wondering every time I share a YouTube music video are these rap artists trying to claim it as keertan or Katha. They got too much time on there hands. It ain't happening. Snap them out of that bubble straight away. It's good to go hunting lol. Nobody touching Sikhism like that. Idiots. They're trying to control the price of sound waves impossible. Oi idiot rap artists bring the beef to me directly I'm ready!

 

[chazSingh]

Guru Fateh to All.

A question to the Scholars.

Does anyone know who started and why the following is forbidden in the Gurdwaras?

1. No Applause
2. No Dancing

When a Sikh is at a forum outside the Gurdwara along with other religions and if he/she quotes from Gurbani with the right message, people do applaud.

The good Raagis Dance with their hands while sitting cross legged .

According to SGGS, our only Guru, Ik Ong Kaar is omnipresent, hence no walls between Ik Ong Kaar and anything/one else. We are reminded of his/hers/its omnipresence daily when we recite/understand and practice Nitnem in our daily lives- the life of Miri-Piri. Our Piri side is only manifested through our Miri.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

well said

religion is made to look so strict, so full of rules....for control purposes...this puts people off. its not cool to be religious or spiritual...people think you're boring.
religion is serious stuff...very important to connect to Waheguru. it should be seen as serious, but also joyous, loving, full of smiles and laughter...dance, rythm, tears of joy, tears of longing...

 

[Ambarsaria]

Philosophically it is dangerous when we have expectations of others and we hate when someone expects anything of us. We see I am a free man and I do what I believe is right.

In terms of dancing, my heart dances when a shabad rendition catches a rhythm of my mind. Your hands may twitch, your big toe may jerk and your back may sway a bit. Had you closed your eyes when you were in a room where people were dancing, you probably will experience the same as people dancing.

I certainly don't like exploitation and the pressure to be like the other one that many may be put under per the videos in this thread. But if you want to limber up and do it as your heart directs you, I don't see a major issue. It might help remove some of the obesity in our sangat. Have I danced, would I dance! The answer is no.

Any way the following is not from SGGSJ but from one of Kabir ji's writings and I was kind of swaying a bit when listening to it on my computer,

There are lot of shabads in SGGSJ which if someone wants to, they could do renditions the same way. Would these be consistent with the Raags and musical attributes of the shabads, probably not.

SGGSJ is not only a reflective and serious teacher but it is also provides a joyful, energetic and enjoyable company.

Sat Sri Akal

 

[Jasdeep118]

At about 2min 22sec into the video, he starts singing "Soora So Pechhaniye", is that a song too?

[AoG]

Er, whoops.

 

[ActsOfGod]

Your absolutely right, its all these groups fault, and they are all our enemies, how they must look at the way we run our own houses and Gurdwaras with envy!

It's not that at all. There have been (and still are) forces at work that are hell-bent on destroying Sikhi. Much in the same way that Buddhism was pushed out of India, it appears that if Sikhi does not fall into the folds of Brahmanism, it too will endure a similar fate.

It is easy to blame everyone else, to blame our enemies, but at the end of the day we are talking about interpretation, we ourselves commit the biggest sin by not living the SGGSji, it is worshiped, read, mumbled, it is paid to be read and mumbled, but few seem interested in living it. I refuse to condemn others practices until our own are perfect.

That is part of the problem, yes, and self-criticism is warranted. However, I was highlighting that it is an extreme situation which the everyday man is facing. He isn't just backsliding because of his laziness or because he is not trying enough. When there are forces actively engaged in your destruction, then it's very, very difficult to make any progress. In spite of it all, yes I agree that if people started living Sikhi, then things would change. And more and more people are in fact starting to do that, which is a positive sign. But which also results in increased efforts to distort history and the teachings of the Gurus, and to confuse people and eradicate their way of life.

[AoG]

 

[ActsOfGod]

Philosophically it is dangerous when we have expectations of others and we hate when someone expects anything of us. We see I am a free man and I do what I believe is right.

In terms of dancing, my heart dances when a shabad rendition catches a rhythm of my mind. Your hands may twitch, your big toe may jerk and your back may sway a bit. Had you closed your eyes when you were in a room where people were dancing, you probably will experience the same as people dancing.

I certainly don't like exploitation and the pressure to be like the other one that many may be put under per the videos in this thread. But if you want to limber up and do it as your heart directs you, I don't see a major issue. It might help remove some of the obesity in our sangat. Have I danced, would I dance! The answer is no.

Ambarsaria Ji, no doubt the heart and soul are elated when you hear Gurbani. And yes, you are free, as is everyone.

However, this is about standards. If one were visiting the Queen of England, do you think it would be acceptable for someone to bang out some bhangra or dance a jig just because their heart felt so happy on their visit? If it's not seen as proper decorum when paying a visit to the Queen, why does everyone seem to think it's just fine in Guru's Darbar? And to say that it is restrictive and putting pressure on people when being asked to observe a convention or standard that in other situations people would gladly observe.

Guru's Darbar is a royal court, and when one enters a royal court, they observe certain standards and conventions. Those have been eroded today, and everyone seems to be more than willing to come up with a multitude of arguments to make it "ok" to do so.

Students of martial arts know that once they step onto the mat, they are to observe strict protocol in behavior and posture, etc. They don't speak or do idle chit chat, they pay attention to and obey the sensei, follow his or her commands, etc. There are conventions and standards for a purpose. It doesn't mean the students are being exploited etc. For any student to tell a joke to his friend or call his friend on the phone or listen to his ipod or etc. would constitute disrespect and result in him being kicked out of the class. And yet it seems to be perfectly acceptable to do what essentially amounts to the equivalent in Guru's Darbar.

The really sad thing is that noone bats an eye.

[AoG]

 

[ActsOfGod]

well said

religion is made to look so strict, so full of rules....for control purposes...this puts people off. its not cool to be religious or spiritual...people think you're boring.
religion is serious stuff...very important to connect to Waheguru. it should be seen as serious, but also joyous, loving, full of smiles and laughter...dance, rythm, tears of joy, tears of longing...

Sikhi is a way of life, a way of living, rather than a religion.

The "rules" in this case have to do with Gurus Darbar. It is a matter of holding ourselves to the standard. Seems like we can't even do the basics anymore. No self-discipline, no coherence. We all want to do our own thing willy-nilly and we come up with a million excuses why.

Remember that Guru Sahib is our spiritual as well as temporal leader.

What happens when the president walks into a room? Everyone stands up. Do you see people sitting around saying "Oh that's such a strict rule that I have to stand up for Mister President, I should be free to just sit."

Ultimately, of course it's up to you whatever you want to do. I just hope that people remember when they go to Guru's Darbar, in whose presence they are. It seems that everyone has forgotten, and nobody cares.

We even have people arguing about doing matha tek, saying that it is a ritual, and that they don't want to participate.

[AoG]

 

[Ambarsaria]

ActsOfGod ji thanks for your post.

So that my views are clearly expressed, I do not condone any of the actions in videos you posted. I would be embarrassed if not fuming if I was part of any congregations where such things took place.

The underlying and fundamental aspect is that the organized religions around the world are exploited by opportunists. I cannot think of a religion that does not have exploitation of this type in one form another. Why it continues or even grows in strength is a question we should ask ourselves? Are they meeting a need. Are they connecting to the people the way some of them want to be connected to? Are they providing an experience of satisfaction to the needs of their congregation? Looking from outside in, probably the answer to all these questions will be big NO.

So the fundamental issue becomes that in the big NO answer, what are we saying. Are we saying that we understand that it is wrong or we are refusing to admit, may be we don't understand or know. I hold that we do not fully understand or know. Let me cite a personal example. I was detesting the Babey and dehra phenomenon with a loved one. I felt there was a clear black and white answer to it and the answer was that it is all wrong. The person in all seriousness and honesty stated that some people have a need for such personal touch, such personal expressions, etc. I had a wow moment! Could I ever think and be like these people! These are all people like you and me and linked to the same one source that we all are. My perspective changed a bit for such people but not necessarily towards the acts with which they may be fleeced. At least that is how I would characterize some of such situations.

We must reason, we must express in love and compassion, we must make an effort if something we think could be bettered. Putting down or throwing a stone is not an effort as I am concerned. Mind you I have done lot of put downs and thrown stones in my life, so I am not putting a blame on you or anyone else who does not like what they see. Just trying to stay awake in my own conscience in order to reduce or control my possible aggravating tendencies.

Let us keep the high place and take it to even higher heights. I appreciate your efforts.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[chazSingh]

Sikhi is a way of life, a way of living, rather than a religion.

The "rules" in this case have to do with Gurus Darbar. It is a matter of holding ourselves to the standard. Seems like we can't even do the basics anymore. No self-discipline, no coherence. We all want to do our own thing willy-nilly and we come up with a million excuses why.

Remember that Guru Sahib is our spiritual as well as temporal leader.

What happens when the president walks into a room? Everyone stands up. Do you see people sitting around saying "Oh that's such a strict rule that I have to stand up for Mister President, I should be free to just sit."

Ultimately, of course it's up to you whatever you want to do. I just hope that people remember when they go to Guru's Darbar, in whose presence they are. It seems that everyone has forgotten, and nobody cares.

We even have people arguing about doing matha tek, saying that it is a ritual, and that they don't want to participate.

[AoG]

AoG have i somehow given you the impression i hold no respect for Guru Ji Darbar?

what in my reply has given you this impression?

everything done with the right intention of love, respect, joy for waheguru, longing for waheguru is ok in my eyes...acting withing boundaries and rules is amazing if you know why those things are important...

e.g. drinking alcohol....some people just stop drinking because they think 'its against our religion'

whereas now i know if i drink...i can't function properly...i'll find it hard doing anything to the best of my ability....i won't be able to sit and focus during simran...i wont be able to control my 5 thieves because the drinking makes them worse...

theres a reason why drinking is not recommended rather than it just being some kind of religious no no...or you go to hell kinda thing.

i spend many years going to the gurdwara, and doing what was expected of me...sit quietly, listen for as long as i could...matha tek...then leave and be at the pub in the evening, trying to pull girls at a nightclub...for one reason only...

only when i started living what i was listening to...did my life start to change...if we can do both...we'll be on to a winner..

 

[Harry Haller]

I'm confused, Is the Guru's darbar some sort of special place that is unlike any other place on this earth?

The protocol that is demanded in Guru's darbar, is that different to protocol demanded else where?

If this is the case, then the story of Guru Nanak visiting Mecca could not possibly be true, because he seemed to be in favour of the very opposite of your point, ie, god is everywhere, to behave in a certain way within a specific location is pointless and shows no real understanding of god, how do you reconcile your opinion with that?

Are you all suggesting I show the utmost respect in front of the SGGSji, but do as I wish once I am out of range? Could someone specify the range? is it within sight of SGGSji? In the same physical building? the same street? the same town?

I do so want to be a good Sikh, so please help me out on this

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Harry Haller writes:

Are you all suggesting I show the utmost respect in front of the SGGSji, but do as I wish once I am out of range? Could someone specify the range? is it within sight of SGGSji? In the same physical building? the same street? the same town?

Harry ji,

Guru Fateh,

These were the same questions I asked when the honchos forbade Anand Karajs in the Hotels because of the Bar/s, hence SGGS is not allowed to be taken there for the occasion which seems to me making SGGS our Idol to be worshiped rather than its teachings practiced in our daily lives.

 

[swarn bains]

Followers or I say those who control the faith in every religion make their own rules for their benefit. Sikhs object to take SGGS to a hotel because they lose money. the same thing slowly slowly becomes the flaw in the faith which gives rise to another faith by finding faults with the previous one. In spite of the fact that SGGS is a divine book, we make every effort to hide in gurdwara or in public so that it remains their domain. Even on this site the administrators press hard to put the page number on every statement the audience makes. that is how the audience lose interest. Let anyone tell me how the page number creates respect for SGGS.
For your information i have been reading SGGS for the last 45 years. i have gone through it hundreds of time but I never found so much emphasis anywhere. that is the technique administrators use to stay on top everywhere

 

[Parma]

Personally I think when it comes to the Guru Granth Sahibs darbar it should be placed at a specified location like a Gurdwara regardless of the insensitivity of issue for some people simply for this matter only. The home of the Guru is a specialist place of worship in a field dedicated to God. A hotel is a home for all types of systems a Gurdwara or any type of other faith built building is totally unaffected with the rules and regulations that a faith based society may hold sacred. So unless you are going to implement a change to the hotel and the rest of the people behind you believe in your faiths vision its pointless as that not only ceases to be a hotel and loses revenue it also at the same moment becomes a temple. A building is always an empty structure depending upon how you interact and utilise it. Depending on how you intend to invest depends on the type of dividends you get to receive they wanna talk business lol. I think you need a new angle view of what you require. Below the belt. What can I say but I guess we all beg God so that makes everyone a TRAMP in the house of God. We're all beggers in the house of nature's institutions of intuition you see. So which destination is considered ordained. A hotel full of TRAMPS OR FULL OF TRUMPS YOU DECIDE. Just to make you aware you cannot stop anyone from attending to serve the Guru's grace by whoever claims to be a Sikh. Dig deeper your too shallow.