Dasam Granth Ji - Its History By Daljeet Singh

[Astroboy]

Dear Inder Singh Ji, Pk70 Ji and All,

I don't see any reconciliation of both your views yet so it is pointless to continue this discussion. However, since we are on the Dasam Granth topic, how would you comment on this video by Sadasat Simran Singh :

Sri Dasam Granth and Guru Gobind Singh at MrSikhNet

 

[Inder singh]

Please watch videos of damdama sahib enclave.

Panthic Weekly: Gurmat Samvaad Videos

 

[Inder singh]

video below is helpul
Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Seminar - Dr Harbhajan Singh - AOL Video

 

[singh is king]

Hi Guys please listen carefully Dr Harpal Singh's (Phd) views in following video.

SriDasam Granth Sahib

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

First of all nobody disputes Guruship of SGGS.A mischief oriented mind will repaeat the same to digress from the main subject.Not only you we are all believers in SGGS ji's Guruship.

It is good to know that you are amritdhari.When we take amrit , panj piaras direct us what banis to read.Three banis are from Dasam Granth.Do not you read those?

Vah. These words are true. And that ends the discussion. The rest is propaganda against the edict of Akal Takht.

On November, 26, 2006 Sri Akal Takht Sahib issued a directive that labeled those criticizing Sri Dasam Granth as "ਸ਼ਰਾਰਤੀ ਅਨਸਰ" (mischievous) and their message as "ਕੂੜ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰ" (trash talk) ; it also requested Panthic scholars to give fitting reply to these detractors (ਢੁਕਵਾਂ ਉੱਤਰ ਦੇਣ).

http://www.panthic.org/news/123/ARTICLE/3913/2008-02-21.html

Committee Constituted on Dasam Granth Issue
Wednesday 27th of December 2006
International Human Rights Organisation


Ludhiana, Punjab - The Panthik meet assembled on the 23rd of December constituted a 7-member Prosecution Committee comprising of Harnam Singh, (Damdami Taksal), Principal Gurmukh Singh (Akhand Kirtani Jatha), Gurmat College, Patiala, Giani Sher Singh Nihang (Buddha Dal), Gurdwara Manji Sahib, Ambala, Baba Avtar Singh Nihang, Sursinghwale (Tarna Dal), Dr Jodh Singh Pbi Uni PTA, Gurcharanjit Singh Lamba, Editor Sant Sipahi and D S Gill Chiarperson IHRO. D S Gill will act as coordinator of the committee.
The committee will prosecute all those opponents, who criticize Dasam Granth, in Courts through books, newspapers and other media and in the courts of law.


The Sikh Meet, comprising of Sikh groups, institutions and scholars on 'Sri Dasam Granth and its spiritual and historical aspects', organised by the International Human Rights Organisation (IHRO) at Sri Guru Singh Sabha Gurdwara, Sarabha Nagar, Ludhiana, on December 23, 2006, after discussion, resolved as under:

1. That Sri Guru Granth Sahib is Guru of the Sikh Panth, as has been ordained by Guru Gobind Singh and Tenth Master's Bani- Sri Dasam Granth is sacred Bani and it has bee accepted so by the Sarbat Sangat worldwide.

2. That all those who doubt or create misunderstanding about Sri Dasam Granth, the Bani of Guru, are enemies of the Sikhs and are stooges of Brahminicals (Biparwadis) who are bent upon to rundown the Khalsa from its ideology by creating confusion about the (Dasam) Granth of the Khalsa.

3. That the antagonists of Sri Dasam Granth, while gratifying the Biparwadis, are playing in hands of intelligence agencies which are entrusted with the task of taking Sikhs away from their political issues and Panthak goals by involving them in unnecessary controversies (in the Panth) relating to Dasam Granth, Raag Mala, etc.

4. That the Sikhs have only Dasam Granth, besides Sri Guru Granth Sahib, as scripture that manifests the wondrous Khalsa. Dasam Granth is the only inspiration and source of Khalse di Rehat, Khalse de Udesh, Khalse de Kakaars, Khalse da Khanda, Banis of Nit Nam- 'Jaap Sahib', 'Chaupayee Sahib' and 'Tuve-Prasaad Sawayeeae', etc, Ardas of the Khalsa, Khalsa Mehma, Concept of Dharam Yudh, Khalsa de Jakare- Deg Teg Fateh, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh, the character of the Khalsa and the concept of Charhdikala of the Khalsa. "Therefore, we are of the view and strongly believe that Dasam Granth is Granth of the Khalsa, without which Khalsa is meek and docile (tameable), and only he or she can correctly comprehend Dasam Granth who has full faith in the ideology of the Gurus.

5. That Sri Guru Granth Sahib is the only Scripture of the Sikhs, which has been conferred, with the status of the Guru by the Tenth Master. This status cannot be accorded to any other Sikh scripture. We also caution those who are wittingly or unwittingly trying to create confusion (doubts) on this count.

6. That these days, the adversaries are trying to condemn Dasam Bani quoting it as Triya Charitar. Not only that, they even do not hesitate to give a bad name to the Tenth Master of the Sikhs. "We want to clarify that the Triya Charitar's full connotation is 'Charitropakhyan' (a Sanskrit word) which literally means tale, true or lift up. And Bhai Mani Singh in Bhagat Mala has said, "Charitar have been there so that Singhs do not get indulged or trapped in women's intrigues and machinations."

7. That the so-called controversy about the Dasam Granth was finally resolved in 1931 when the entire issue was reviewed under the aegis of The Darbar Sahib Committee of the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC) which vindicated the earlier conclusions that the Dasam Granth was entirely the work (Bani) of Guru Gobind Singh. Thus, no individual has any right to create doubts or confusions about the Dasam Bani but after the Bhasauris, new Bhasauri types include Gurtej Singh (former IAS), Harbhajan Singh (Missionary), Gurbax Singh Kala Afgana, Joginder Singh (Spokesman), Rajinder Singh Khurana (Khalsa Panchayat) and Mohinder Singh Josh who have contributed nothing on Sikh thought, Sikh philosophy and spiritualism.

"We, therefore, caution the Sikh Sangat to beware of such persons and to ignore them outrightly, calling upon them to stick to their Panthak, national goals and religio-political issues. We also warn the opponents and them to stop criticising the Dasam Bani."

Other persons who participated in the meet included:
Dr Harpal Singh Panuu, Prof Anurag Singh, Bhai Manjit Singh Taksal (Mehta Chowk), Principal Ram Singh (Study Circle), Bhai Hardip Singh, Taksal, Bhindran, Manjit Singh Clacutta, besides IHRO activists M S Grewal, Avtar Singh Gill, Sukhdev Singh Ramgarh Sibian, Tejwant Singh Grewal, Anmol Singh Grewal. 31 representatives attended the meet.

(D S Gill)
Chairperson

 

[Archived_Member1]

Its name was vidhya sagar in the beginning, then Dasam Granth, now some dare to call it 'Guru dasam Granth". What is going on. For Sikhs, there is only ONE Guru, Guru Granth Sahib ji Period. Dasmesh ji certified it, mentality of mahant or brahmin wouldnt be able to change this fact ever. Nirankari, Radha swami and other Baba Sant, came and will go, forever will be Guru Granth Sahib ji !!

just to clear up a common misconception. when someone says Guru Dasam Granth, it doesn't mean it is Guru. it means the Granth was written by the Dasam (10th) Guru. please refrain from spreading false allegations that anyone considers Dasam Granth to be Guru or in any way equal to SGGS. because NO ONE does that.

 

[Archived_Member1]

Secondly, at amrit ceremoney a sikh is not asked to recite those obscene verses as you just said. Why even have you mentioned it. Discussion needs a reasonable mind not a judgemental mind.

this statement is somewhat confusing.

which obscene verses are you speaking of? Inder veerji spoke of Jaap Sahib, Sawyai, and Chaupai Sahib. these three are part of the five banis read at EVERY amrit ceremony. and yes, we ARE instructed to recite these banis as part of our nitnem.

in what way are they obscene? what banis do you recite daily? what did your panj piyare tell you to recite?

i'm sorry to ask to many questions, but i simply do not understand how one could call the amrit banis obscene.

 

[pk70]

just to clear up a common misconception. when someone says Guru Dasam Granth, it doesn't mean it is Guru. it means the Granth was written by the Dasam (10th) Guru. please refrain from spreading false allegations that anyone considers Dasam Granth to be Guru or in any way equal to SGGS. because NO ONE does that.

In the early times, it was known as Vidhya sagar, and then it was named “Dasam Granth”, then “Guru Dasam Granth”. Guys who love it in its totality call it “Guru Dasam Granth” You can add your lovely new statement why it is called “NOW” “Guru Dasam Granth” It can be helpful to those who may also start worshipping it as Guru Granth Sahib ji For me it is all immaterial because so far supporter of a view that whole Dasam Granth is authored by Dasmesh ji, never have come with any historical and logical point of view to support their stand. When confronted they affiliated the questioners to Kala Afgana and other opportunists. It is very sad.

On this site, I have very bad experience of facing accusations especially by those who cannot tolerate disagreement. To continue debate with such people, I feel it is useless. We boast about our love for Gurbani and show almost little tolerance for people in disagreement. They have the right to have opinion as I have. They want to worship Dasam Granth, so it be; for me all of it, is not authored by Glorious Guru Gobind Singh. Above all, Dasam Patshah himself didn’t give his compositions a status of Gurbani , why would I disobey him?”
If you have a fair mind you should not think I am spreading something. Sikhs are student of Divinity and they refrain from accusations!

ਮੰਦਾ ਕਿਸੈ ਨ ਆਖਿ ਝਗੜਾ ਪਾਵਣਾ (GGS JI 566)
( In essence: Do not cause a quarrel by calling anyone bad. (GGS Ji 566)

 

[pk70]

this statement is somewhat confusing.

which obscene verses are you speaking of? Inder veerji spoke of Jaap Sahib, Sawyai, and Chaupai Sahib. these three are part of the five banis read at EVERY amrit ceremony. and yes, we ARE instructed to recite these banis as part of our nitnem.

in what way are they obscene? what banis do you recite daily? what did your panj piyare tell you to recite?

i'm sorry to ask to many questions, but i simply do not understand how one could call the amrit banis obscene.

I was saying we are asked to recite those banis at amrit ceremony but we are not asked to recite the obscene ones which are source of all controversy.

 

[spnadmin]

pk70 ji

SGPC has moments of profound wisdom. Asking the panth not to stir up controversy over Guru Dasam Granth was one of those moments -- bitterness always stands in the way of logic and sensible use of historical evidence. So I don't make my own views public on this matter. Speaking as a moderator, who wants discussion to continue, the questions you raise about tolerance in the face of disagreement are serious and should be taken seriously.

Two themes prevail:

1. 'I don't see any reconciliation of both your views yet so it is pointless to continue this discussion." (post 42)

Why should a discussion terminate because parties continue to disagree? Why should views be reconciled? What is there to discuss if everyone is in 100 percent agreement.

2. "On this site, I have very bad experience of facing accusations especially by those who cannot tolerate disagreement...They have the right to have opinion as I have."(post 49)

Yes, you do and Yes, they do! I regret that you have had this experience. Nothing dampens the desire for discussion more.

"Above all, Dasam Patshah himself didn’t give his compositions a status of Gurbani , why would I disobey him?” (post 49)

This is generally taken to be historically factual.

Any individual should feel free to disagree in an unprejudiced discussion.

 

[pk70]

aad0002 ji

I am short of words to thank you.
May WAHEGURU bless !

 

[Archived_Member1]

In the early times, it was known as Vidhya sagar, and then it was named “Dasam Granth”, then “Guru Dasam Granth”. Guys who love it in its totality call it “Guru Dasam Granth” You can add your lovely new statement why it is called “NOW” “Guru Dasam Granth” It can be helpful to those who may also start worshipping it as Guru Granth Sahib ji For me it is all immaterial because so far supporter of a view that whole Dasam Granth is authored by Dasmesh ji, never have come with any historical and logical point of view to support their stand. When confronted they affiliated the questioners to Kala Afgana and other opportunists. It is very sad.

On this site, I have very bad experience of facing accusations especially by those who cannot tolerate disagreement. To continue debate with such people, I feel it is useless. We boast about our love for Gurbani and show almost little tolerance for people in disagreement. They have the right to have opinion as I have. They want to worship Dasam Granth, so it be; for me all of it, is not authored by Glorious Guru Gobind Singh. Above all, Dasam Patshah himself didn’t give his compositions a status of Gurbani , why would I disobey him?”
If you have a fair mind you should not think I am spreading something. Sikhs are student of Divinity and they refrain from accusations!

ਮੰਦਾ ਕਿਸੈ ਨ ਆਖਿ ਝਗੜਾ ਪਾਵਣਾ (GGS JI 566)
( In essence: Do not cause a quarrel by calling anyone bad. (GGS Ji 566)

i think you missed the part where i said no one worships dasam granth as guru. and i certainly didn't call you or anyone else "bad".

i'm sorry to cause such a misunderstanding.

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

just to clear up a common misconception. when someone says Guru Dasam Granth, it doesn't mean it is Guru. it means the Granth was written by the Dasam (10th) Guru. please refrain from spreading false allegations that anyone considers Dasam Granth to be Guru or in any way equal to SGGS. because NO ONE does that.

Jasleen Kaur Ji,

Nihung Panth of Buddha Dal take Prakash of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, Sri Guru Granth Sahib and Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib as if all are Guru. I have seen photo of darbar with all 3 at once. Also historically Sikh Gurdwaras had darbar of both Siri Guru Granth Sahib and Sri Dasam Granth Sahib. So this is not a new debate by any means.

However it is important that Panth has made a distinction recognizing Sri Dasam Granth has been Panthically accepted as bani but not as Guru.

"In fact, the vast majority of Sikhs have not even heard of this text let alone laid eyes on Sarbloh Guru Durbar Ji. Even ancient Sikh and non-Sikh texts are silent on the subject of Sarbloh Guru Durbar. Whereas the Adi Guru Durbar and Dasam Guru Durbar could be publicly seen at Sikh Temples, Sarbloh Guru Durbar was always kept within the Akali Nihang Dals as a secret text... Didar Singh Khjal in his teacher, Baba Thakur Singh, wrote a sanctioned book that speaks of Akali Nihang Baba Gurbakhsh Singh’s handwritten copy of Sarbloh Guru Granth:​

‘Baba Gurbakhsh Singh Ji like Baba Deep Singh Ji Shahid made hand written copies of Sikh scriptures and small liturgy booklets and sent them to appropriate places. His handwritten copy of Siri Sarbloh Granth Sahib is also mentioned before 1920 it was at the Gurdwara Shahid Ganj at the place of martyrdom of Baba Gurbakhsh Singh but then during Akali agitation [1920-1925] it was lost by the old lady who served there.’ ​

(‘Etehas Dam Dmi Taksal Sankhep', Pa.54) A Gateway to Sikhism | Sarab Loh Granth*-*A Gateway to Sikhism​

Interestingly even the secret text of Sarbloh Granth has not been entirely silent as some might think. Sarbloh Bibek, some rehitnamay and traditions still exist within Damdami Taksal and AKJ which are corroborated by what Budha Dal has made public, including Khalsa Mero which is from Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib. When you engage in debates with people, and they always say, "Where did you get this idea? That's not in SGGS Ji! As if, it is not authentically Gursikh tradition. I would stipulate most of the Khalsa traditions were hidden. So much of Gurmat Gursikhi is explained in secondary corroborative sources which most peple never heard of. For example, it's Rehitnama of Bhai Chupa Singh Ji where it gives keski as kakkar. Sau Sakhi Rehatnama says that a keski should be worn irrespective of sex. Liberal historians look at modern manuscripts and conclude everything is inauthentic because it doesn't gibe with what has been taught as Sikhism for the past 100 years.

In 1920's during Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji's time, there were a lot of reforms going on, and the old Gursikhs like Bhai Sahib Ji were in a position to evaluate a lot of old traditions which had been lost to the Panth as well as Hinduization which had steadily been occuring. That is why AKJ is so strict on Gurmat. Points of dispute from SGPC Maryada have come from AKJ accepting rehitnamas which the Panth in general did not recognize. It was Bhai Sahib who pioneered the Gurdwara Reform movement, without which, Gurdwaras would still be in hands of mahants. Bhai Sahib was honored by all 5 Takhts. About Bhai Sahib it's said, "In his various books on Sikh theology he quotes very appropriate verses from the Gurbani freely and with apparent ease. He had a deep insight and scholarly expertise in Punjabi, Brij Bhasha of Sri Dasam Granth, Persian, Urdu and English. He even distinguished himself as an Urdu and Punjabi poet during his college days."

It is also known that eminent scholars assembled at the Akal Takht from 1892 to 1897, to study the various printed Dasam Granths and prepare the authoritative version. In this process, they determined that the Dasam Granth is entirely the work of Guru Gobind Singh.​

Again in 1931, the Darbar Sahib Committee SGPC proclaimed the same and published a book to this effect. Dr. Gopal Singh in his book 'Thus Spake the Tenth Master', writes "While depicting the goodness of God, the Guru also identifies Him with the ravisher of beauty, the drunkard, creator of doom." The Akal Takht hukamnamah dated 5th July 1977 was issued to excommunicate Bhag Singh of Ambala, who had written a book, which included blasphemous comments against the Dasam Granth. The hukamnamah categorically stated, "Bhag Singh had committed a sin by writing this book and criticising the Sikh religious Scripture." Hence this controversy was put to rest even in 1977.​

Bhai Randhir Singh, the research scholar, writes in his article "Dasven Patshah de Granth da Itihaas", in the Itihasak Patra printed by SGPC in June 1962, that a bir of the Dasam Granth was found in the archives of Patna Sahib, which contains the signatures of Guru Gobind Singh. The writing of the Guru has been verified by his other writing in the Sangroor Bir and another very antique bir. In a very detailed article Bhai Sahib has explicitly proved with substantial proofs that the whole of Dasam Granth is the penmanship of the tenth Master Guru Gobind Singh Ji.Because of the complexity of the article I cannot go deeply into it, but it is an excellent work of impartial research.​

dasam granth​

Many things are debatable. But Akal Takht has closed the debate on Sri Dasam Granth Sahib as being authentic bani. End of story.

Khalsa mero roop hai khaas.
The Khalsa is my complete image​

Khalse maih hau karo nivaas.
I dwell in the khalsa​

Khalsa mero mukh hai ang-aa.
Khalsa is my chief organ​

Khalse ke hau sadh sadh sang-aa.
I am always with the khalsa​

Khalsa mero mitr sakhaa-ee
Khalsa is my closest friend​

Khalsa maat pitaa sukhdaa-ee
Khalsa is my mother, father & source of all comforts.​

Khalsa meri jaat ar pat.
Khalsa is my caste & creed.​

Khalsa sau maa kau utapat.
My creation is through the khalsa​

Khalsa mero bhavan bhand-aa-raa.
I dwell in the khalsa who is a storehouse of all my requirements.​

Khalse kar mero satk-aa-raa.
I am honoured because of the khalsa.​

Khalsa mero pind par-aan.
Khalsa is my body & breath.​

Khalsa meri jaan ki jaan.
Khalsa is my life & soul​

Khalsa mera satgur poor-aa
Khalsa is my full-fledged Guru.
~Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji​

~Bhul chak maaf

 

[Astroboy]

YouTube - Sikhs Deserve Freedom

 

[Archived_Member1]

Jasleen Kaur Ji,

Nihung Panth of Buddha Dal take Prakash of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, Sri Guru Granth Sahib and Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib as if all are Guru. I have seen photo of darbar with all 3 at once. Also historically Sikh Gurdwaras had darbar of both Siri Guru Granth Sahib and Sri Dasam Granth Sahib. So this is not a new debate by any means.

However it is important that Panth has made a distinction recognizing Sri Dasam Granth has been Panthically accepted as bani but not as Guru.

per my understanding, they do prakash (i think they do it at Hazoor Sahib too) of DGS and Sarbloh Granth on palki of a much lower level than SGGS, to show that SGGS is the True Guru, but also to show that they still respect the Dasam bani as Guru's Word.

i could be confused though.

regardless, if you look at basic punjabi grammar, Guru Dasam Granth simply means Granth of the Dasam Guru. or at least that's what scholars say. perhaps they're all wrong and only kala afghana cult knows what people really mean when they say something. :}:

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

per my understanding, they do prakash (i think they do it at Hazoor Sahib too) of DGS and Sarbloh Granth on palki of a much lower level than SGGS, to show that SGGS is the True Guru, but also to show that they still respect the Dasam bani as Guru's Word.

Nihung's do prakash at same level as is seen in these pictures (see 2 links). But Nihung does a lot of things most people in the Panth don't agree with.

Sanatan Sikhi - Sanatan Sikh Gurus
Sarbloh Granth Translation - The Voice of Sikh Youth

regardless, if you look at basic punjabi grammar, Guru Dasam Granth simply means Granth of the Dasam Guru. or at least that's what scholars say. perhaps they're all wrong and only kala afghana cult knows what people really mean when they say something.

I am simply informing that Sri Dasam Granth bani is not distinguished as separate from Sir Guru Granth Sahib Ji by Nihung Jatha. But the concerns of Kala Afghana are entirely something of another nature. He is attacking the very foundations of Sikh religion.

The Akalis (later known as Nihangs) believed in asceticism and celibacy. They also believed in the use of bhang (hashish) also called Sukha or Sukh Nidhan (treasure of bliss) for meditative purposes. They believe in three Granths: The Adi Granth (Primal/First Book), the Dasam Granth (Book of the Tenth Guru) and the Sarob Loh Granth (Book of the All-Steel). They believe that all have equal status and supplement each other; in the Akali/Nihang perspective it is not possible to fully comprehend the Adi Granth without the other two Granths.

Akalis/Nihangs

 

[Inder singh]

Vidya sagar Granth was a different one.that was the work of court poets and was lost in Sirsa river while Guru ji was leaving Anandpur sahib.

This Granth was known as Bachitra Natak Granth.Then more compositions were added then it was called Dasma padshah Da Granth.Finally in 1897 it was called
Dasam granth.

It hardly matters so far contents are same.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
At Hajur Sahib and Patna Sahib copy of Dasham Granth Sahib Ji is kept in smaller Palki(planquine) and at lower leval then Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

While in us (Budhadal) all three texts are at same lelve yet Adi Guru Darbar is at centre so it is only to be bowed while Dasham Gurudarbar is on right and Sarbloh Guru Darbar on left.

 

[mkm]

All jio

Lets assume Dasmgranth was written by Guru ji, most of the supporters and anti Dasmgranth are not practicing life as per Gurbani, if Guru Granth Sahib Jee cannot change them, will Dasmgranth will change them? Only if Sikhs strictly follow Guru Granth Sahib Jee they can turn into saint like people.