Re: Sants and Sikhi
Sikh Namdhari said:
Sat-Sri Akaal Vijaydeep Singhji
I must apologise in advance for any delays in responding to replys as I run a business and this debate is only something that I have got into in reluctant reaction to the many misconceptions that I read on the internet.
Yes I am aware of Neeldharis. But again Veerji, you have been mislead about their beliefs. They do hold Satguru Ram Singhji as the twelfth Master... but they don't believe in the Guruship of the Guardians of the Gurgaddhi in His absence, as we all believe in the return of Satguru Ram Singhji as fortold by Satguru Nanak Deviji and Satguru Gobind Singhji.
Sau Sakhi, if you have read any version would not be the true original, because when the true Khalsa started to preach it the British imprisoned them. They burned all the books that posed a threat to their Empire. But when the flow of the Satguru's influence could not be checked they hired traitor Sikhs like Sir Attar Singh Aluhallia to translate and then change the wordings of many a Granth, not just the Sau Sakhi to confuse the Sikhs as to what the true teachings were!
A very important point for all seekers of the truth: You compare Satguru Ram Singhji to ordinary men. I implore you: read the life story of Satguru Ram Singhji and compare it to the Sikhs you speak of and then tell me if He is not SATGURU. Don't read the writings about Satguruji by those who have been inspired by traitorous propoganda. 'Satgur Bilas' is a two volume Epic in the Namdhari Panth which records Sakhis from Satguru Ram Singhji's contemporaries. Real life accounts of how He gave Naam to thousands at a time, and changed their lives. How He breathed new life into an almost extinct Khalsa. This was at a time after the Khalsa army of Maharaja Ranjit Singh was annihilated by the British, and all ideas of a powerful Sikhi were trodden into the earth. Our Gurudhwaras were controlled by the British and their puppets so that no idea of resistance against their Empire could go unnoticed. This was a time when noone dared to speak against the Empire for fear of death. All of your ancestors were schooled by this governing force. So naturally, when the twelfth Master started to spread His Universal message, the British counterattacked by using the Gurdhwaras as centres for instigating hatred for the Living Guru. That hatred lives on today. You see it time and time again.
Your words that Satguru Gobind Singhji believed in the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib as Guru could not be further from the truth, my brother. If that were the case...:
What do you believe Satguru Gobind Singh to be?
Do you also compare Him to the ordinary mortals whose names you mention? Search your hearts brothers and have shame.
It is not your fault, it's the influence of Kalyug. One false theory is spawining hundreds and thousands more.
You speak of Living Satguru in Hindhu belief. Here is another lie that the British have instilled in your minds to confuse and divide the people. Hindhu and Sikh belief about God and Satguru is one and the same. I know you have been indoctrinated to believe otherwise, that is why your 'leaders' do not want you to read the writings of Satguru Gobind Singhji. Read Dasam Guru Granth Sahib O unfortunates and see what The Tenth Lords Ordains. Khalsa was formed to defend Hindhu Dharam! (Not it's degenerate rituals such as idol worship etc. - but the True values which had lost credence.)
Today we have become so full of our ego that we call ourselves GURU?
If each and everyone of us is Guru, then what becomes of our belief in Aadh Guru Granth Sahib as Guru? Is each one of us equal to it's Holy teachings?
The Satguru is COMPLETE. HE is SARB KALA SAMRATH.
In vain attempts to make their theories work they have had to divide the Satguru into three parts:
First false theory:
No Human Guru
Aadh Guru Granth Sahib is Guru-
But The Holy Scriptures are not capable of giving Gur-manthr.
(Gur-manthr is what a Guru is all about. It is also known within Gurmat as Gur-Sabad. The Satguru gives this Gur-Manthr in the ears of His Sikhs, which they then recite.
The propogators of these manmat theories use this word to justify the Shabad Guru theory by twisting its meaning.)
Hence the need to create a
Second false theory:
Khalsa is Guru
"When the 5 Pyarea give Amrit, they pass on the Gurmanthr by repeating Wahiguru -Ji - Ka- Khalsa, Sri Wahiguruji- Ki- Fateh."
So, now we still need a Human form of Guru, this contradicts the first theory. Now you not only have one Dehdhari Guru, but -God help us -FIVE!
Third false theory:
Shabad is Guru
This theory was helplessly evolved to counter the practice of actually worshipping the Bindings of the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib. But you still see us Sikhs resorting to a form of Idol worship when we start attributing life to what is lifeless. What have we degenerated into?
(The Gurbani has Divine power only when we read it and understand it and then implement it's teachings into our lives and search out a True Guru to give us His Gurmanthr so that we can leave this world with our sins washed.)
So according to the history as recited by this school, Satguru Gobind Singhji passed on the Gurgaddhi at least three times in His lifetime?
What was His role when He was busy doing this, or after He had done this?
If you believe in the writings of the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib as eternal truth, then read the Vaars of Bhai Gurdasji(I) whose writings are renouned in the Panth as the KEY to understanding the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib:
Vaar 6 Pauri 16
Dhan, Dhan Satgur Purakh, Nirankar Akaar banaia...
To counter the false meanings of modern 'scholars' you have to remember that these Vaars were written at a time when Satguru Arjun Devji was the 5th Purakh (Human) Satguru that the WHOLE of the Sikh Panth believed in, despite the fact that the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib had been wriiten. If there is only ONE TRUTH, then that truth DOES NOT CHANGE!!! GOD CREATED HIS FORM INTO SATGUR AND APPEARED ON EARTH IN HUMAN FORM. The words: Nirankar Akaar banaia mean:
The Formless created Form..
and appeared on Earth as Satgur.
Bhai Gurdasji calls such a Satguru 'Dhan'- he goes on in the same Vaar to call those Sikhs Dhan, who place their forheads at the Charan(feet) of this Satgur. Please don't even go down the road of telling me that 'Charan' is a hypothetical concept.
No mere mortal can be Satguru unless the Satguru so chooses. Holy Scriptures and history catagorically prove that to be Satguru you have to be immersed in Naam and be capable of immersing others in Naam and changing the course of their Karam. Satgur is in His ONE form capable of ALL THINGS. He does not need to be divided.
Please read also the Dasam Guru Granth Sahib and try to understand what Satguru Gobind Singhji made us and what we are slowly evolving into!!!
Unfortunately these evil forces have succeeded in blaspheming against the very Gurbani that tells us of what the Khalsa Panth should be, and they even proclaim that it is not the writing of the Tenth Satguru.
I am not going to counter all of your misconceptions here and now, already I have spent too much time on this computer. But if Satguruji's will permits we will do Satsang again.
Once again, when one talks about what one believes in, the passion of belief can sometimes hurt feelings, especialy if they differ.
My intention is not to attack belief and if that is how I have come across I beg your Sadhs' forgiveness from the bottom of my heart. For you are Sadhs who seek God.
Gurfateh
Bro,
Das here refers to Pratap Singh Mehta version only which is Namdhari version.So he even writes own views about your Satiguru and rewrites him as Satiguru Ram Singh Ji.Das interpreted the orgional version and comapred it with explantions and they were biased.
Sau Charan Pahul,it was nowhere writtan should be givne from water of the corner of Rumala of Guru Granth Sahib Ji,where human Guru did not exist.It was simply writtan take it from water dipped in Rumala and He wrote in bracked ,where Guru did not exists.
Now we come to concept of Panj Piaras.Well das is happy to inform you that Amrit Sansakr and Gurmantar you say is not the one.We are told to carry out Namabhiyas or Nam Drih by Singh repesetning Panth Guru.
It is not Fateh but Gurmatar has mnay more thing and lots of practice or Abhyas attached to it.
Then yourself Said that Guru Granth Sahib Ji can not guide us.Are you sure.Say If Akal wants why can not a person get enlightement just by reading.Is our God binded by anything.
Coming to Sabad Guru,read Sidh Gost in Guru Granth Sahib Ji which yourself are respecting.That Guru Nanak called his own Guru.So it can ot be our Guru.
Yuor Mahapursh had a copy of Sarbloh Granth,which they have lost why?Neeldharis still have it and they do not behold Baba Ram Singh Ji as Satiguru but form of Satiguru,if if you attain the state of Khalsa,your self can get.
First Master did say that he was one with Akal,Vachitar Natak,He said his name will not come but name of Akal will come.And Akal can give Guruship as mnay times Akal wants to as many people.Fact is that True Guru is fromless as in all forms(32 forms of Gurus can be refered to in Dasham Granth).Guru Panth and Guru Granth Ji are mere manifestations.
Sarbloh Granth further says, In Me(Tenth Nanak),in them(Khalsa) and in That(Akal) behold no difreance.Clarly 12 forms or Dwadash roops are writtan over there of Guru which is formless apprantly ie Ten Masters,Guru Granth and Guru Panth.
Even if we belive that Baba Ajpal Singh stayed concelaed for about say 90 to hundred years.In that time there were Many Khalsa Nam Abhiyasis who did not meet him and got salvation while being alive just by follwing Five Beloved ones,they did not meet Tenth Master also.
So one who gave baptism two Tenth Master were not weak.In Dasham Granth it is writtan that by thier mercy only we are created else billions or poors like me are lying.
Anf when Guru himself says Khalsa Mera Satiguru Poora or Khalsa is my complete Satiguru(Sarbloh Granth).And as per Bhangu like Guru Angad became Guru and Guru Nanak bowed to him so did Guru Gobind Singh Ji bowed to Khalsa.He took Tankha from Khalsa even once.
Yet das does not think any doubt should be left.
Anyway Purukh doe snot mean human but may mean male in Punjabi.But in Gurmat we need to understand that Satiguru does not mean any Human Guru.Even we need to understand that term Nanak is for second person and not First person in Guru Granht Sahib Ji.
Term Purukh is from term Purush in holy Vedas(Purush Sutra).As per thaty defination Purush Evda Sarvada ie Purush ie Complete is one who is everywhere (in all time).
Purukh or Karta Purukh is not single entitiy wioth Mushriks(partners).Ie no one second other then Akal exisits.Till you know you are vedantic but when you realise that you are a Khalsa.
Das can not say that weather your presetn Satiguru Ji are making any one of his follower like that or not perhaps not becasue if they make any one just like him(if he himslef is Khalsa) then that person will stop following living Guru.
Das is repeating that we have Dehdhari Gurudevss in Sanatan Sikhs but that is simlar to the state of Sants of bibles in Holy Ghost ie Guru who is Akal overtaking the mind of Khalsa.
If you want das by mercy of his Guru Khalsa can let you come out of precived limitations in mind that without lving Guru ,there can nopt be salvations.It is posible by mercy of Akal.
Once Gulaba Khatri said that as Tenth Guru is no more he should be Guru,It was tested with his power and that of Five beloved one and he failed and we passed.So we are always ready to pas any Test as exminer is our Guru.
We as individual are not Guru but as a whole and when we have essance of Guru Granth Sahib Ji in our heart.
Coming to Hindu factor,Das was a Hindu and whole family is Hindu.Ugradanti you also read,has term ourself as Third Faith and let Hindu Dharma all mist run away when we roar.
We are Sanatan Dharmis.And our Guru is Sanatan.Das request you to read Sarbloh Granth.and Nanak was told,so kio simariye Nanaka Jame Te Mar Jai,Eko simariey Nanaka Jo Jal Thal Rahiya Samaye.And non of you Satiguru including initial Ten are worth to be rembered.
Ten Masters were great as instead of there letting us follow there persinality,we were told by them to follow thier God.
as far as our relation with Britshers is concerned and thier influence das recomends you to visit
www.sarbloh.info to understand that.
Baba Balak Singh did get some Brahm Vidya from Udaseen Sants,which was pased to Baba Ram Singh Ji and he became spritualy power ful.Say if das shows you a simlar Udasi Sadhu doing more better yogic things so will you call him your Satiguru?
Yuo forget that what Namdhairs initaily use to say,it is variued version of Beej Mantra,Sat Akal Purakh.Turth is eternaly Complete.
we all are limits and are thnece incomplete.But Akal is eternal and complete as in all completely.
Das was told this by Guru of First Master(Sabad Guru as per Sidhg Gost) and Satiguru of Tenth Master Guru Panth Khalsa(Sarbloh Granth).
Das can help you anyway as so far you need to realise the truth.Yuo can ask your Satiguru for that and if he refuse you can come to das or you can come directly.
Ego can be for that who exsits but for Khalsa nothing else but Akal only exists.
Sikh Namdhari said:
Sat-Sri Akaal Vijaydeep Singhji
I must apologise in advance for any delays in responding to replys as I run a business and this debate is only something that I have got into in reluctant reaction to the many misconceptions that I read on the internet.
Yes I am aware of Neeldharis. But again Veerji, you have been mislead about their beliefs. They do hold Satguru Ram Singhji as the twelfth Master... but they don't believe in the Guruship of the Guardians of the Gurgaddhi in His absence, as we all believe in the return of Satguru Ram Singhji as fortold by Satguru Nanak Deviji and Satguru Gobind Singhji.
Sau Sakhi, if you have read any version would not be the true original, because when the true Khalsa started to preach it the British imprisoned them. They burned all the books that posed a threat to their Empire. But when the flow of the Satguru's influence could not be checked they hired traitor Sikhs like Sir Attar Singh Aluhallia to translate and then change the wordings of many a Granth, not just the Sau Sakhi to confuse the Sikhs as to what the true teachings were!
A very important point for all seekers of the truth: You compare Satguru Ram Singhji to ordinary men. I implore you: read the life story of Satguru Ram Singhji and compare it to the Sikhs you speak of and then tell me if He is not SATGURU. Don't read the writings about Satguruji by those who have been inspired by traitorous propoganda. 'Satgur Bilas' is a two volume Epic in the Namdhari Panth which records Sakhis from Satguru Ram Singhji's contemporaries. Real life accounts of how He gave Naam to thousands at a time, and changed their lives. How He breathed new life into an almost extinct Khalsa. This was at a time after the Khalsa army of Maharaja Ranjit Singh was annihilated by the British, and all ideas of a powerful Sikhi were trodden into the earth. Our Gurudhwaras were controlled by the British and their puppets so that no idea of resistance against their Empire could go unnoticed. This was a time when noone dared to speak against the Empire for fear of death. All of your ancestors were schooled by this governing force. So naturally, when the twelfth Master started to spread His Universal message, the British counterattacked by using the Gurdhwaras as centres for instigating hatred for the Living Guru. That hatred lives on today. You see it time and time again.
Your words that Satguru Gobind Singhji believed in the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib as Guru could not be further from the truth, my brother. If that were the case...:
What do you believe Satguru Gobind Singh to be?
Do you also compare Him to the ordinary mortals whose names you mention? Search your hearts brothers and have shame.
It is not your fault, it's the influence of Kalyug. One false theory is spawining hundreds and thousands more.
You speak of Living Satguru in Hindhu belief. Here is another lie that the British have instilled in your minds to confuse and divide the people. Hindhu and Sikh belief about God and Satguru is one and the same. I know you have been indoctrinated to believe otherwise, that is why your 'leaders' do not want you to read the writings of Satguru Gobind Singhji. Read Dasam Guru Granth Sahib O unfortunates and see what The Tenth Lords Ordains. Khalsa was formed to defend Hindhu Dharam! (Not it's degenerate rituals such as idol worship etc. - but the True values which had lost credence.)
Today we have become so full of our ego that we call ourselves GURU?
If each and everyone of us is Guru, then what becomes of our belief in Aadh Guru Granth Sahib as Guru? Is each one of us equal to it's Holy teachings?
The Satguru is COMPLETE. HE is SARB KALA SAMRATH.
In vain attempts to make their theories work they have had to divide the Satguru into three parts:
First false theory:
No Human Guru
Aadh Guru Granth Sahib is Guru-
But The Holy Scriptures are not capable of giving Gur-manthr.
(Gur-manthr is what a Guru is all about. It is also known within Gurmat as Gur-Sabad. The Satguru gives this Gur-Manthr in the ears of His Sikhs, which they then recite.
The propogators of these manmat theories use this word to justify the Shabad Guru theory by twisting its meaning.)
Hence the need to create a
Second false theory:
Khalsa is Guru
"When the 5 Pyarea give Amrit, they pass on the Gurmanthr by repeating Wahiguru -Ji - Ka- Khalsa, Sri Wahiguruji- Ki- Fateh."
So, now we still need a Human form of Guru, this contradicts the first theory. Now you not only have one Dehdhari Guru, but -God help us -FIVE!
Third false theory:
Shabad is Guru
This theory was helplessly evolved to counter the practice of actually worshipping the Bindings of the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib. But you still see us Sikhs resorting to a form of Idol worship when we start attributing life to what is lifeless. What have we degenerated into?
(The Gurbani has Divine power only when we read it and understand it and then implement it's teachings into our lives and search out a True Guru to give us His Gurmanthr so that we can leave this world with our sins washed.)
So according to the history as recited by this school, Satguru Gobind Singhji passed on the Gurgaddhi at least three times in His lifetime?
What was His role when He was busy doing this, or after He had done this?
If you believe in the writings of the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib as eternal truth, then read the Vaars of Bhai Gurdasji(I) whose writings are renouned in the Panth as the KEY to understanding the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib:
Vaar 6 Pauri 16
Dhan, Dhan Satgur Purakh, Nirankar Akaar banaia...
To counter the false meanings of modern 'scholars' you have to remember that these Vaars were written at a time when Satguru Arjun Devji was the 5th Purakh (Human) Satguru that the WHOLE of the Sikh Panth believed in, despite the fact that the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib had been wriiten. If there is only ONE TRUTH, then that truth DOES NOT CHANGE!!! GOD CREATED HIS FORM INTO SATGUR AND APPEARED ON EARTH IN HUMAN FORM. The words: Nirankar Akaar banaia mean:
The Formless created Form..
and appeared on Earth as Satgur.
Bhai Gurdasji calls such a Satguru 'Dhan'- he goes on in the same Vaar to call those Sikhs Dhan, who place their forheads at the Charan(feet) of this Satgur. Please don't even go down the road of telling me that 'Charan' is a hypothetical concept.
No mere mortal can be Satguru unless the Satguru so chooses. Holy Scriptures and history catagorically prove that to be Satguru you have to be immersed in Naam and be capable of immersing others in Naam and changing the course of their Karam. Satgur is in His ONE form capable of ALL THINGS. He does not need to be divided.
Please read also the Dasam Guru Granth Sahib and try to understand what Satguru Gobind Singhji made us and what we are slowly evolving into!!!
Unfortunately these evil forces have succeeded in blaspheming against the very Gurbani that tells us of what the Khalsa Panth should be, and they even proclaim that it is not the writing of the Tenth Satguru.
I am not going to counter all of your misconceptions here and now, already I have spent too much time on this computer. But if Satguruji's will permits we will do Satsang again.
Once again, when one talks about what one believes in, the passion of belief can sometimes hurt feelings, especialy if they differ.
My intention is not to attack belief and if that is how I have come across I beg your Sadhs' forgiveness from the bottom of my heart. For you are Sadhs who seek God.
Sikh Namdhari said:
Sat-Sri Akaal Vijaydeep Singhji
I must apologise in advance for any delays in responding to replys as I run a business and this debate is only something that I have got into in reluctant reaction to the many misconceptions that I read on the internet.
Yes I am aware of Neeldharis. But again Veerji, you have been mislead about their beliefs. They do hold Satguru Ram Singhji as the twelfth Master... but they don't believe in the Guruship of the Guardians of the Gurgaddhi in His absence, as we all believe in the return of Satguru Ram Singhji as fortold by Satguru Nanak Deviji and Satguru Gobind Singhji.
Sau Sakhi, if you have read any version would not be the true original, because when the true Khalsa started to preach it the British imprisoned them. They burned all the books that posed a threat to their Empire. But when the flow of the Satguru's influence could not be checked they hired traitor Sikhs like Sir Attar Singh Aluhallia to translate and then change the wordings of many a Granth, not just the Sau Sakhi to confuse the Sikhs as to what the true teachings were!
A very important point for all seekers of the truth: You compare Satguru Ram Singhji to ordinary men. I implore you: read the life story of Satguru Ram Singhji and compare it to the Sikhs you speak of and then tell me if He is not SATGURU. Don't read the writings about Satguruji by those who have been inspired by traitorous propoganda. 'Satgur Bilas' is a two volume Epic in the Namdhari Panth which records Sakhis from Satguru Ram Singhji's contemporaries. Real life accounts of how He gave Naam to thousands at a time, and changed their lives. How He breathed new life into an almost extinct Khalsa. This was at a time after the Khalsa army of Maharaja Ranjit Singh was annihilated by the British, and all ideas of a powerful Sikhi were trodden into the earth. Our Gurudhwaras were controlled by the British and their puppets so that no idea of resistance against their Empire could go unnoticed. This was a time when noone dared to speak against the Empire for fear of death. All of your ancestors were schooled by this governing force. So naturally, when the twelfth Master started to spread His Universal message, the British counterattacked by using the Gurdhwaras as centres for instigating hatred for the Living Guru. That hatred lives on today. You see it time and time again.
Your words that Satguru Gobind Singhji believed in the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib as Guru could not be further from the truth, my brother. If that were the case...:
What do you believe Satguru Gobind Singh to be?
Do you also compare Him to the ordinary mortals whose names you mention? Search your hearts brothers and have shame.
It is not your fault, it's the influence of Kalyug. One false theory is spawining hundreds and thousands more.
You speak of Living Satguru in Hindhu belief. Here is another lie that the British have instilled in your minds to confuse and divide the people. Hindhu and Sikh belief about God and Satguru is one and the same. I know you have been indoctrinated to believe otherwise, that is why your 'leaders' do not want you to read the writings of Satguru Gobind Singhji. Read Dasam Guru Granth Sahib O unfortunates and see what The Tenth Lords Ordains. Khalsa was formed to defend Hindhu Dharam! (Not it's degenerate rituals such as idol worship etc. - but the True values which had lost credence.)
Today we have become so full of our ego that we call ourselves GURU?
If each and everyone of us is Guru, then what becomes of our belief in Aadh Guru Granth Sahib as Guru? Is each one of us equal to it's Holy teachings?
The Satguru is COMPLETE. HE is SARB KALA SAMRATH.
In vain attempts to make their theories work they have had to divide the Satguru into three parts:
First false theory:
No Human Guru
Aadh Guru Granth Sahib is Guru-
But The Holy Scriptures are not capable of giving Gur-manthr.
(Gur-manthr is what a Guru is all about. It is also known within Gurmat as Gur-Sabad. The Satguru gives this Gur-Manthr in the ears of His Sikhs, which they then recite.
The propogators of these manmat theories use this word to justify the Shabad Guru theory by twisting its meaning.)
Hence the need to create a
Second false theory:
Khalsa is Guru
"When the 5 Pyarea give Amrit, they pass on the Gurmanthr by repeating Wahiguru -Ji - Ka- Khalsa, Sri Wahiguruji- Ki- Fateh."
So, now we still need a Human form of Guru, this contradicts the first theory. Now you not only have one Dehdhari Guru, but -God help us -FIVE!
Third false theory:
Shabad is Guru
This theory was helplessly evolved to counter the practice of actually worshipping the Bindings of the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib. But you still see us Sikhs resorting to a form of Idol worship when we start attributing life to what is lifeless. What have we degenerated into?
(The Gurbani has Divine power only when we read it and understand it and then implement it's teachings into our lives and search out a True Guru to give us His Gurmanthr so that we can leave this world with our sins washed.)
So according to the history as recited by this school, Satguru Gobind Singhji passed on the Gurgaddhi at least three times in His lifetime?
What was His role when He was busy doing this, or after He had done this?
If you believe in the writings of the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib as eternal truth, then read the Vaars of Bhai Gurdasji(I) whose writings are renouned in the Panth as the KEY to understanding the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib:
Vaar 6 Pauri 16
Dhan, Dhan Satgur Purakh, Nirankar Akaar banaia...
To counter the false meanings of modern 'scholars' you have to remember that these Vaars were written at a time when Satguru Arjun Devji was the 5th Purakh (Human) Satguru that the WHOLE of the Sikh Panth believed in, despite the fact that the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib had been wriiten. If there is only ONE TRUTH, then that truth DOES NOT CHANGE!!! GOD CREATED HIS FORM INTO SATGUR AND APPEARED ON EARTH IN HUMAN FORM. The words: Nirankar Akaar banaia mean:
The Formless created Form..
and appeared on Earth as Satgur.
Bhai Gurdasji calls such a Satguru 'Dhan'- he goes on in the same Vaar to call those Sikhs Dhan, who place their forheads at the Charan(feet) of this Satgur. Please don't even go down the road of telling me that 'Charan' is a hypothetical concept.
No mere mortal can be Satguru unless the Satguru so chooses. Holy Scriptures and history catagorically prove that to be Satguru you have to be immersed in Naam and be capable of immersing others in Naam and changing the course of their Karam. Satgur is in His ONE form capable of ALL THINGS. He does not need to be divided.
Please read also the Dasam Guru Granth Sahib and try to understand what Satguru Gobind Singhji made us and what we are slowly evolving into!!!
Unfortunately these evil forces have succeeded in blaspheming against the very Gurbani that tells us of what the Khalsa Panth should be, and they even proclaim that it is not the writing of the Tenth Satguru.
I am not going to counter all of your misconceptions here and now, already I have spent too much time on this computer. But if Satguruji's will permits we will do Satsang again.
Once again, when one talks about what one believes in, the passion of belief can sometimes hurt feelings, especialy if they differ.
My intention is not to attack belief and if that is how I have come across I beg your Sadhs' forgiveness from the bottom of my heart. For you are Sadhs who seek God.
Gurfateh
Bro,
Das here refers to Pratap Singh Mehta version only which is Namdhari version.So he even writes own views about your Satiguru and rewrites him as Satiguru Ram Singh Ji.Das interpreted the orgional version and comapred it with explantions and they were biased.
Sau Charan Pahul,it was nowhere writtan should be givne from water of the corner of Rumala of Guru Granth Sahib Ji,where human Guru did not exist.It was simply writtan take it from water dipped in Rumala and He wrote in bracked ,where Guru did not exists.
Now we come to concept of Panj Piaras.Well das is happy to inform you that Amrit Sansakr and Gurmantar you say is not the one.We are told to carry out Namabhiyas or Nam Drih by Singh repesetning Panth Guru.
It is not Fateh but Gurmatar has mnay more thing and lots of practice or Abhyas attached to it.
Then yourself Said that Guru Granth Sahib Ji can not guide us.Are you sure.Say If Akal wants why can not a person get enlightement just by reading.Is our God binded by anything.
Coming to Sabad Guru,read Sidh Gost in Guru Granth Sahib Ji which yourself are respecting.That Guru Nanak called his own Guru.So it can ot be our Guru.
Yuor Mahapursh had a copy of Sarbloh Granth,which they have lost why?Neeldharis still have it and they do not behold Baba Ram Singh Ji as Satiguru but form of Satiguru,if if you attain the state of Khalsa,your self can get.
First Master did say that he was one with Akal,Vachitar Natak,He said his name will not come but name of Akal will come.And Akal can give Guruship as mnay times Akal wants to as many people.Fact is that True Guru is fromless as in all forms(32 forms of Gurus can be refered to in Dasham Granth).Guru Panth and Guru Granth Ji are mere manifestations.
Sarbloh Granth further says, In Me(Tenth Nanak),in them(Khalsa) and in That(Akal) behold no difreance.Clarly 12 forms or Dwadash roops are writtan over there of Guru which is formless apprantly ie Ten Masters,Guru Granth and Guru Panth.
Even if we belive that Baba Ajpal Singh stayed concelaed for about say 90 to hundred years.In that time there were Many Khalsa Nam Abhiyasis who did not meet him and got salvation while being alive just by follwing Five Beloved ones,they did not meet Tenth Master also.
So one who gave baptism two Tenth Master were not weak.In Dasham Granth it is writtan that by thier mercy only we are created else billions or poors like me are lying.
Anf when Guru himself says Khalsa Mera Satiguru Poora or Khalsa is my complete Satiguru(Sarbloh Granth).And as per Bhangu like Guru Angad became Guru and Guru Nanak bowed to him so did Guru Gobind Singh Ji bowed to Khalsa.He took Tankha from Khalsa even once.
Yet das does not think any doubt should be left.
Anyway Purukh doe snot mean human but may mean male in Punjabi.But in Gurmat we need to understand that Satiguru does not mean any Human Guru.Even we need to understand that term Nanak is for second person and not First person in Guru Granht Sahib Ji.
Term Purukh is from term Purush in holy Vedas(Purush Sutra).As per thaty defination Purush Evda Sarvada ie Purush ie Complete is one who is everywhere (in all time).
Purukh or Karta Purukh is not single entitiy wioth Mushriks(partners).Ie no one second other then Akal exisits.Till you know you are vedantic but when you realise that you are a Khalsa.
Das can not say that weather your presetn Satiguru Ji are making any one of his follower like that or not perhaps not becasue if they make any one just like him(if he himslef is Khalsa) then that person will stop following living Guru.
Das is repeating that we have Dehdhari Gurudevss in Sanatan Sikhs but that is simlar to the state of Sants of bibles in Holy Ghost ie Guru who is Akal overtaking the mind of Khalsa.
If you want das by mercy of his Guru Khalsa can let you come out of precived limitations in mind that without lving Guru ,there can nopt be salvations.It is posible by mercy of Akal.
Once Gulaba Khatri said that as Tenth Guru is no more he should be Guru,It was tested with his power and that of Five beloved one and he failed and we passed.So we are always ready to pas any Test as exminer is our Guru.
We as individual are not Guru but as a whole and when we have essance of Guru Granth Sahib Ji in our heart.
Coming to Hindu factor,Das was a Hindu and whole family is Hindu.Ugradanti you also read,has term ourself as Third Faith and let Hindu Dharma all mist run away when we roar.
We are Sanatan Dharmis.And our Guru is Sanatan.Das request you to read Sarbloh Granth.and Nanak was told,so kio simariye Nanaka Jame Te Mar Jai,Eko simariey Nanaka Jo Jal Thal Rahiya Samaye.And non of you Satiguru including initial Ten are worth to be rembered.
Ten Masters were great as instead of there letting us follow there persinality,we were told by them to follow thier God.
as far as our relation with Britshers is concerned and thier influence das recomends you to visit
www.sarbloh.info to understand that.
Baba Balak Singh did get some Brahm Vidya from Udaseen Sants,which was pased to Baba Ram Singh Ji and he became spritualy power ful.Say if das shows you a simlar Udasi Sadhu doing more better yogic things so will you call him your Satiguru?
Yuo forget that what Namdhairs initaily use to say,it is variued version of Beej Mantra,Sat Akal Purakh.Turth is eternaly Complete.
we all are limits and are thnece incomplete.But Akal is eternal and complete as in all completely.
Das was told this by Guru of First Master(Sabad Guru as per Sidhg Gost) and Satiguru of Tenth Master Guru Panth Khalsa(Sarbloh Granth).
Das can help you anyway as so far you need to realise the truth.Yuo can ask your Satiguru for that and if he refuse you can come to das or you can come directly.
Ego can be for that who exsits but for Khalsa nothing else but Akal only exists.