Bhenji Surinder Kaur
It seems that no matter what I say you are going to continue with your attacks. I keep telling you that:
1) I am not a missionary. My aim is NOT to even try to convert. Satguruji do not preach convertions.
2)
Why do you keep ignoring the above statement?
The only people who seem to have a missionary agenda is yourselves!
I'm so pleased you have understood the meaning of my statement. This is the only meaning I intended to forward to you.
Who am I to 'make new history'? As I have been telling you, it is history which has been SUPPRESSED. Namdhari Sikhs aren't a 'modern cult'. Satguru Ram Singhji came at a time when Sikhi was almost extinct. Christianity was making new converts every day. What He did to resurrect Sikhi is a part of Sikh history. People who are against Namdhari Sikhs(for whatever reasons) have done their level best to keep this chapter in Sikh history hidden from the masses. Those who are intellectual and who can find it within themselves to research with an inbiased mind will and can see the truth.
If you want to believe that all of what happened after Guru Gobind Singhji in the fold of His Sikhs who are now known as Namdharis is 'made up history', then that is your freedom. But neither you nor your ancestors can be successful in eliminating this truth. It will keep rising. Saying it is 'new history' is ignorance.
Again, Bhenji, you are twisting my words to satisfy your own agenda.
'Namdhari' term means nothing different than what it means in the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib. Being a Naamdhari Sikh MEANS being a Sikh who recites that Naam, Gurmanther which Satguru Nanak Devji brought into this Earth.
We believe in our Guru as per Commands given WITHIN the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib.
By Amrit Sanchar, I presume you mean Khande - di - Pahul as administered by the 5 Pyarae to intiate a Sikh into the Khalsa Fold.
This is no different with Namdhari Sikhs. We are given Khande-da-Amrit, prepared by 5 Pyarae whilst reciting:
Japji Sahib
Jaap Sahib
Choupai
10 Sweyae
Anand Sahib
This is then administered to drink with 5 'Choolae', Sprinkled 5 times in the Kesh, 5 times in the eyes whilst repeating 'Wahiguru ji ka Khalsa, Sri Wahiguru ji ki Fathae' each time.
So where are the differences you keep harping on about?
If anything, Namdhari Sikhs are more rigorous in keeping these practices than our general bretheren.
Is Guru Nanak Devji not your Guru? Is Guru Gobind Singhji not your Guru?
If not. If only Sabad Guru is your Guru, then I admit defeat.
Say Guru Nanak Devji to Guru Gobind Singhji are not your Gurus and I will accept that we are indeed different.
For they are my Gurus.
Veer Ji,
please, i am not attacking you.
i am simply trying to analyze your statements.
let us take one point at a time-
now you say-
Sikh Naamdhari said:I am not a missionary. My aim is NOT to even try to convert. Satguruji do not preach convertions.
Sikh Naamdhari said:I am not a missionary. I have no objection to what anyone believes.
and you said in a former post-
Sikh Naamdhari said:My original post still stands and I stand by every word I have written.
in your original post-
Sikh Naamdhari said:I have yet to understand where in the vastness of Sikh history the first 10 Satgurus ordained their followers to stop regarding Them as Satguru and follow the 'Shabad Guru'.
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WHEN DID THE HOLY VERSES OF THE GURBANI (WHICH IS ETERNAL TRUTH) BECOME WRONG AND THE MODERN CONCEPT OF GURU BECOME TRUE?
All of you on these sites who profess to be followers of that wonderous Gurudom of Guru Nanakdevji: give up your bigotries, give up Sikhism and embrase SIKHI. Set yourselves on a path of learning rather than teaching, for we are the students, the SIKHS of our great Master: The SATGURU.
THIS IS NOT A MODERN CONCEPT. WE ARE STILL OBEYING DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GOBIND SINGH JI'S ORDERS. And this eternal.
and FYI your Guru formed a new sect named NAMDHARI with his own school of thought about Guruship by denying Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji's orders. He might had his own reasons, i have no interest in disscussing that..
now you say-
Sikh Naamdhari said:By Amrit Sanchar, I presume you mean Khande - di - Pahul as administered by the 5 Pyarae to intiate a Sikh into the Khalsa Fold.
This is no different with Namdhari Sikhs. We are given Khande-da-Amrit, prepared by 5 Pyarae whilst reciting:
Japji Sahib
Jaap Sahib
Choupai
10 Sweyae
Anand Sahib
This is then administered to drink with 5 'Choolae', Sprinkled 5 times in the Kesh, 5 times in the eyes whilst repeating 'Wahiguru ji ka Khalsa, Sri Wahiguru ji ki Fathae' each time.
in your original post-
Sikh Naamdhari said:IF YOU RECIEVE NAAM FROM SOMEONE WHO WEARS THE 5 SHASTER DURING AN AMRIT SANCHAR BUT HAS NO CONNECTION WITH HIS CREATOR OUTSIDE OF THE GURDWARA; WHO WILL TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR SOUL AFTER YOUR DEMISE, HOW CAN YOUR RECITATION OF THAT NAAM BRING YOU SALVATION?
ONLY BY RECEIVING NAAM FROM, OR THROUGH THE ORDER OF, ONE WHO IS IMMERSED IN NAAM HIMSELF 24 HOURS A DAY WITH EACH BREATH, WHO LEADS BY EXAMPLE HOW TO LIVE A LIFE THAT IS COLOURED BY NAAM CAN WE HOPE TO ACHIEVE SALVATION FROM THE CYCLE OF 360,000.
so what you did for the years 1708-1812/1857 ???
my dear brother you have been contradicting your own thoughts over and over again, we can go on and on, but it is useless.
i did ask you to answer a few questions before too, you ignored all that-
here is another one-
Gurbani says-
bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ]
baanee guroo guroo hai baanee vich baanee anmrith saarae
The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained.
guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry ]5]
gur baanee kehai saevuk jun maanai puruthakh guroo nisuthaarae
If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him.
i know you are not going to believe this either, but anyways i had to bring it up.
Here Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Raam Das Sachey Paatshah Ji says- Bani Guru Hai, Guru Bani Hai and whosoever humbly believes Bani, Bani(GURU) saves that person.
There is no difference in Guru or Guru's Bani. Guru is unlimited. Guru is already mearged with SuperSelf- that's why His words contain AMBROSIAL NECTAAR-AMRIT. AND AMRIT KADI BEHA NAHI HUNDAA....
where are you lost my veer, do you have any clue what you talking about????
it seems to me that you are a confused person, only trying to use your time on some wasteful task.
a person engrossed in Naam(as you claim yourself to be) does productive work, he/she does not waste any single minute .......
Dhan Dhan Siri Guru arjan Dev Ji De Bachan-
pRwnpiq dieAwl purK pRB sKy ]
grB join kil kwl jwl duK ibnwsnu hir rKy ]1] rhwau ]
nwm DwrI srin qyrI ]
pRB dieAwl tyk myrI ]1]
AnwQ dIn AwsvMq ]
nwmu suAwmI mnih mMq ]2]
quJ ibnw pRB ikCU n jwnU ]
srb jug mih qum pCwnU ]3]
hir min bsy inis bwsro ]
goibMd nwnk Awsro ]4]
hir kw nwmu irdY inq iDAweI ]
sMgI swQI sgl qrWeI ]1]
guru myrY sMig sdw hY nwly ]
ismir ismir iqsu sdw sm@wly ]1] rhwau ]
qyrw kIAw mITw lwgY ]
hir nwmu pdwrQu nwnku mWgY ]2]
AMimRq bwxI hir hir qyrI ]
suix suix hovY prm giq myrI ]
jlin buJI sIqlu hoie mnUAw siqgur kw drsnu pwey jIau ]1]
sUKu BieAw duKu dUir prwnw ]
sMq rsn hir nwmu vKwnw ]
jl Ql nIir Bry sr suBr ibrQw koie n jwey jIau ]2]
dieAw DwrI iqin isrjnhwry ]
jIA jMq sgly pRiqpwry ]
imhrvwn ikrpwl dieAwlw sgly iqRpiq AGwey jIau ]3]
vxu iqRxu iqRBvxu kIqonu hirAw ]
krxhwir iKn BIqir kirAw ]
gurmuiK nwnk iqsY ArwDy mn kI Aws pujwey jIau ]4]
Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Amar Das Ji De Bachan
gur sBw eyv n pweIAY nw nyVY nw dUir ]
nwnk siqguru qW imlY jw mnu rhY hdUir ]2]
jy vylw vKqu vIcwrIAY qw ikqu vylw Bgiq hoie ]
Anidnu nwmy riqAw scy scI soie ]
ieku iqlu ipAwrw ivsrY Bgiq iknyhI hoie ]
mnu qnu sIqlu swc isau swsu n ibrQw koie ]1]
myry mn hir kw nwmu iDAwie ]
swcI Bgiq qw QIAY jw hir vsY min Awie ]1] rhwau ]
shjy KyqI rwhIAY scu nwmu bIju pwie ]
KyqI jMmI AglI mnUAw rjw shij suBwie ]
gur kw sbdu AMimRqu hY ijqu pIqY iqK jwie ]
iehu mnu swcw sic rqw scy rihAw smwie ]2]
AwKxu vyKxu bolxw sbdy rihAw smwie ]
bwxI vjI chu jugI sco scu suxwie ]
haumY myrw rih gieAw scY lieAw imlwie ]
iqn kau mhlu hdUir hY jo sic rhy ilv lwie ]3]
ndrI nwmu iDAweIAY ivxu krmw pwieAw n jwie ]
pUrY Bwig sqsMgiq lhY sqguru BytY ijsu Awie ]
Anidnu nwmy riqAw duKu ibiKAw ivchu jwie ]
nwnk sbid imlwvVw nwmy nwim smwie ]4]
forgive me please