Do All Religions Lead To God?

[selvi]

I am going to point out where the proselytizing occurs in this post as questions have come up about this in the past. The general rule I use -- to state a Christian belief without also modifying it by saying " As a Christian I believe'" and instead stating a Christian belief as if others should believe it. This can be offensive to others who do not share Christian beliefs. So look at where I have entered notes to see where the modifications should go

Well now think about the logic of this. Can I go into a phone booth and dial any phone number and get home? No, there's only one number that'll get me home. I could be sincere, but I could be sincerely wrong. The truth is, all roads don't lead to Rome and all roads and all religions don't lead to God.
You see, it all depends on which direction you take. Jesus said this, "I am the way and the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me." I'm betting my life on the fact that He was right because I figured Jesus knows more about it than I did.
The Christian Bible tells us that on the road to heaven, there are only two directions, toward Christ or away from Him. Note that there is a difference between the Christian Bible and the Hebrew Bible that does not subscribe to the idea of Christ as sAvior. You can accept it or you can reject it, according to Christians, that's your choice. You can make Jesus the Lord of your life, that means the manager, the ceo, the person in charge of your life, or you can call Him a liar, but that's what the Bible declares.
You know a lot of people sincerely believe that even though they've broken God's rules that they can earn God's forgiveness by doing good works, by observing the Five Pillars of Islam or the Buddhist Eightfold Path or the Hindu Doctrine of Karma, for example. But as a Christian I don't get it. (See if you don't indicate that you as a Christian are disagreeing, the statement can be very offensive to members of dharmic religions -- sounds almost like a sharp criticism of them) How will doing some good works that we should have done all our lives, make up for all the countless times we failed? You see, those who believe in heaven think that heaven is a perfect place and that means only perfect people get to go there. If not-perfect people were allowed in, it wouldn't be perfect anymore. Well I don't know about you, but I stopped being perfect a long time ago. Christians also believe that ...God came up with plan b. He came to earth in human form, Jesus Christ, and He lived a perfect life and now He offers to let us go to heaven on His ticket. Christians pray, And I pray that you will trust Jesus Christ and stop trying to bat a thousand because you ended up not doing that a long time ago (And this section is pure proselytizing) and accept God's free ticket through Jesus Christ.

These thoughts apply to everyone else too, not just Christians. Do not state beliefs that are true for your religion as if they should be true for everyone else. And/Or continue to state that if others do not accept these truths then they are living lives of error. Now because we are in inter-faith dialogs the compare and contrast of different religions is acceptable. In other forums at SPN, the notion that the only way to salvation is the Christian way, or the Muslim way, or they xxx way, is Possibly Offensive to Sikhs or adherents of other faiths. The post would either be deleted or moved as a new thread to Interfaith dialogs. I hope this helps explain things. Thank you, Narayanjot Kaur

 

[Admin]

I am going to point out where the proselytizing occurs in this post as questions have come up about this in the past. The general rule I use -- to state a Christian belief without also modifying it by saying " As a Christian I believe'" and instead stating a Christian belief as if others should believe it. This can be offensive to others who do not share Christian beliefs. So look at where I have entered notes to see where the modifications should go

Well now think about the logic of this. Can I go into a phone booth and dial any phone number and get home? No, there's only one number that'll get me home. I could be sincere, but I could be sincerely wrong. The truth is, all roads don't lead to Rome and all roads and all religions don't lead to God.
You see, it all depends on which direction you take. Jesus said this, "I am the way and the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me." I'm betting my life on the fact that He was right because I figured Jesus knows more about it than I did.
The Christian Bible tells us that on the road to heaven, there are only two directions, toward Christ or away from Him. Note that there is a difference between the Christian Bible and the Hebrew Bible that does not subscribe to the idea of Christ as sAvior. You can accept it or you can reject it, according to Christians, that's your choice. You can make Jesus the Lord of your life, that means the manager, the ceo, the person in charge of your life, or you can call Him a liar, but that's what the Bible declares.
You know a lot of people sincerely believe that even though they've broken God's rules that they can earn God's forgiveness by doing good works, by observing the Five Pillars of Islam or the Buddhist Eightfold Path or the Hindu Doctrine of Karma, for example. But as a Christian I don't get it. (See if you don't indicate that you as a Christian are disagreeing, the statement can be very offensive to members of dharmic religions -- sounds almost like a sharp criticism of them) How will doing some good works that we should have done all our lives, make up for all the countless times we failed? You see, those who believe in heaven think that heaven is a perfect place and that means only perfect people get to go there. If not-perfect people were allowed in, it wouldn't be perfect anymore. Well I don't know about you, but I stopped being perfect a long time ago. Christians also believe that ...God came up with plan b. He came to earth in human form, Jesus Christ, and He lived a perfect life and now He offers to let us go to heaven on His ticket. Christians pray, And I pray that you will trust Jesus Christ and stop trying to bat a thousand because you ended up not doing that a long time ago (And this section is pure proselytizing) and accept God's free ticket through Jesus Christ.

These thoughts apply to everyone else too, not just Christians. Do not state beliefs that are true for your religion as if they should be true for everyone else. And/Or continue to state that if others do not accept these truths then they are living lives of error. Now because we are in inter-faith dialogs the compare and contrast of different religions is acceptable. In other forums at SPN, the notion that the only way to salvation is the Christian way, or the Musim way, or they xxx way, is Possibly Offensive to Sikhs or adherents of other faiths. The post would either be deleted or moved as a new thread to Interfaith dialogs. I hope this helps explain things. Thank you, Narayanjot Kaur

This is just to reiterate Narayanjot Kaur's point in blue print. :yes:

 

[lalihayer]

Sinister Ji:
Christian existentialism? I have read some some existentialists' books but I think they were either Jews or atheists. So I'll have to get back to you on that so I know a little of what I am talking about. I really have to be on my toes here. LOL
My favorite Lincoln quote goes like this "If I were two faced would I go around wearing this one"
Lincoln had a great wit and also loved to Indian wrestle.
Let me ask you this. When God kicks off a new universe, I like the Big Bang theory, do you believe it is known what will happen from beginning to end as I do. Therefore there can be no divine intervention because that would mean God made an error he had to correct which of course is impossible. We must remember that like pulling a thread on a great rug altering an event would change time and events for ever, of course there a theory that an alternative universe starts immediately, anyway if you believe this isn't free will an illusion and predestination driven by Karma the rule? I have asked this of Christian friends and most can't grasp the concept.
Anyway I will have to get back to you my friend.

Pray for peace
Satyaban

Lord is ਪੂਰਨ ਬਿਧਾਤਾ, perfect architect of destiny. The moment first event occurred for creation of universe, last was known to Him.

Lord is ਅਕਾਲ, beyond time. Universe, His creation is bound in time. Lord created time and space. Looking at His creation from outside this timeline, He does not need to wait for any particular moment to change course.

 

[Satyaban]

Namaste Selvi Ji:
What in the hell are you talking about.(I don't believe in your hell so it doesn't mean much to me so I use it) "I'm betting my life on the fact that He was right because I figured Jesus knows more about it than I did." You are not betting even a dime. You see it is a Pascal's wager. Whether you have made the best choice possible or not you are still on a spiritual journey and perhaps this was a part of your journey anyway all a part of your spiritual evolution and maturation. You see I don't believe their is a wrong bet or choice. Our paths twist and turn sometimes walking together, sometimes crisscrossing and sometimes the path is straight. Our only job is to stay on that path with diligence, elan, and stead fastness. If we get lost or off the track we get guidance from God and get back on it asap. God will not take you the wrong way how can he he made it just for you.

"You know a lot of people sincerely believe that even though they've broken God's rules that they can earn God's forgiveness by doing good works, by observing the Five Pillars of Islam or the Buddhist Eightfold Path or the Hindu Doctrine of Karma, for example. But as a Christian I don't get it. (See if you don't indicate that you as a Christian are disagreeing, the statement can be very offensive to members of dharmic religions -- sounds almost like a sharp criticism of them) How will doing some good works that we should have done all our lives, make up for all the countless times we failed? You see, those who believe in heaven think that heaven is a perfect place and that means only perfect people get to go there."

You are full of misinformation. I think there is only one thing that universally bugs us about Christians and that is their shameless proselytizing of the poor and underprivileged with their prosperity theology in places like my spiritual motherland India and also Africa and South America. Another Issue with me personally are those TV preachers begging for money with their mega churches and also people like Benny Hinn( A Palestinian I find that interesting) and others of his ilk.

I hope you will open you mind and think about these things.

Pray for peace
Satyaban

 

[vsgrewal48895]

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥


Aasaa, First Mehl:​

ਕਾਇਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਮਨੁ ਹੈ ਧੋਤੀ ॥ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਜਨੇਊ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕੁਸਪਾਤੀ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾ ਜਸੁ ਜਾਚਉ ਨਾਉ ॥ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਿ ਸਮਾਉ ॥੧॥ਪਾਂਡੇ ਐਸਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ਨਾਮੇ ਸੁਚਿ ਨਾਮੋ ਪੜਉ ਨਾਮੇ ਚਜੁ ਆਚਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਜਨੇਊ ਜਿਚਰੁ ਜੋਤਿ ਹੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ਧੋਤੀ ਟਿਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥ ਐਥੈ ਓਥੈ ਨਿਬਹੀ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਹੋਰਿ ਕਰਮ ਨ ਭਾਲਿ ॥੨॥ ਪੂਜਾ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਮਾਇਆ ਪਰਜਾਲਿ ॥ ਏਕੋ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਭਾਲਿ ॥ ਚੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਤਤੁ ਗਗਨ ਦਸ ਦੁਆਰ ॥ਹਰਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਠ ਪੜੈ ਬੀਚਾਰ ॥੩॥ਭੋਜਨੁ ਭਾਉ ਭਰਮੁ ਭਉ ਭਾਗੈ ॥ਪਾਹਰੂਅਰਾ ਛਬਿ ਚੋਰੁ ਨ ਲਾਗੈ ॥ਤਿਲਕੁ ਲਿਲਾਟਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਏਕੁ ॥ਬੂਝੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਿਬੇਕੁ ॥੪॥ਆਚਾਰੀ ਨਹੀ ਜੀਤਿਆ ਜਾਇ ॥ਪਾਠ ਪੜੈ ਨਹੀ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਪਾਇ ॥ਅਸਟ ਦਸੀ ਚਹੁ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ॥੫॥੨੦॥

Kā▫i▫ā barahmā man hai ḏẖoṯī Gi▫ān jane▫ū ḏẖi▫ān kuspāṯī. Gur parsādī barahm samā▫o. ||1|| Pāʼnde aisā barahm bīcẖār Nāme sucẖ nāmo paṛa▫o nāme cẖaj ācẖār. ||1|| rahā▫o. Bāhar jane▫ū jicẖar joṯ hai nāl. Ḏẖoṯī tikā nām samāl. Aithai othai nibhī nāl. viṇ nāvai hor karam na bẖāl. ||2|| Pūjā parem mā▫i▫ā parjāl. Ėko vekẖhu avar na bẖāl. Cẖīnĥai ṯaṯ gagan ḏas ḏu▫ār. Bẖojan bẖā▫o bẖaram bẖa▫o bẖāgai. Pāhrū▫arā cẖẖab cẖor na lāgai. Ŧilak lilāt jāṇai parabẖ ek. Būjẖai barahm anṯar bibek. ||4|| Ācẖārī nahī jīṯi▫ā jā▫e. Pāṯẖ paṛai nahī kīmaṯ pā▫e. Asat ḏasī cẖahu bẖeḏ na pā▫i▫ā. Nānak saṯgur barahm ḏikẖā▫i▫ā. ||5||20||

Let the body be the Brahmin, and let the mind be the loin-cloth; let spiritual wisdom be the sacred thread, and meditation the ceremonial ring. I seek the Name of the Akal Purkh and Its Praise as my cleansing bath. By Guru's Grace, I am absorbed into God. ||1|| O, religious scholar, contemplate God in such a way that Its Name may sanctify you, be your study, wisdom, and way of life. ||1||Pause|| The outer sacred thread is worthwhile only as long as the Divine Light is within. So make the remembrance of the Name of the Akal Purkh, your loin-cloth and the ceremonial mark on your forehead. Here and hereafter, the Name alone shall stand by you. Do not seek any other actions, except the Name. ||2|| Worship the God in loving adoration, and burn your desire for Maya. Behold only the One Creator, and do not seek out any other. Become aware of reality, in the Sky of the Tenth Gate; read aloud It's Word, and contemplate it. ||3|| With the diet of Its Love, doubt and fear depart. With God as your night watchman, no thief will dare to break in. Let the knowledge of the One God be the ceremonial mark on your forehead. Let the realization that God is within you be your discrimination. ||4|| Through ritual actions, God cannot be won over; by reciting sacred scriptures, His value cannot be estimated. The eighteen Puraanas and the four Vedas do not know Its mystery. O Nanak, the True Guru has shown me the God. ||5||20|| -----Guru Nanak,,Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 355

Virinder

 

[Sinister]

Sinister Ji:

Christian existentialism? I have read some some existentialists' books but I think they were either Jews or atheists. So I'll have to get back to you on that so I know a little of what I am talking about. I really have to be on my toes here. LOL

I will wait patiently for an answer.

Satyaban ji,

Rationality of people like myself has its limits and cannot venture into the areas that you question without sounding flat and disappointing (thoughts become a can of worms…a toy that is enjoyable but hard to repack). I will do my best and explore the avenue’s of thought with your help and with your words.

Let me ask you this. When God kicks off a new universe,

If god kicks off a new universe and if the universe was kicked off to begin with (many have theorized the existence of an oscillating universe of continuous contraction and expansion)... Let us not revel in assumptive arrogance that we live with reliable explanations that can attest the timeline beginnings of the universe through and through. Or let us not conclude our beliefs that there are multiple universes, as the one we currently reside in seems endless to me. It is faith that leads a person to become uncertain and certain; in fact such feelings can only survive and retain meaning via a codependency or symbiotic relationship. Theoretically, absolute uncertainty is an unattainable state. Because in order to be absolutely uncertain one must be certain that they are uncertain; such a thought extrapolates to ad infinitum in a linguistic joyride.

I like the Big Bang theory, do you believe it is known what will happen from beginning to end as I do. Therefore there can be no divine intervention because that would mean God made an error he had to correct which of course is impossible.

In deeper thoughts the contradictions begin. Like you said before you do not know what is good or bad or you felt unmerited to divulge good from bad. So why do you assume that God would make an error by performing an intervention? If you do not believe in good and bad you also cannot believe in the word ‘error’ as this word in linguistics is paralleled by the word wrong and carries an undesirable connotation and direct relationship with the word bad. This lack of consistency and cognitive dissonance is present in us all as I explained in my earlier posts. You also cannot believe in the word “correct” in its entirety.

It is postulated that before the big bang everything existed in what is termed a point in geometry/or a singularity that can be represented theoretically in mathematical theorems (eg; Penrose-Hawking Singularity theorem) but whose physical properties are all but unknown to us. This indivisible, infinitesimally small, yet infinitesimally dense singularity held the universe and all its contents including the matter and energy that would become you, me, and my Teflon reinforced, non-stick, 106 inch, George Foreman Grill. What I find intriguing is that our origins are from the same point in this massive space-time continuum…and maybe that is where we all wish to return and in this is why we posit our notion of a mono/singular God as a destination. (while ignoring the journey)

Whether God cares to know or intervene is irrelevant to me as it should be to you.

We must remember that like pulling a thread on a great rug altering an event would change time and events for ever, of course there a theory that an alternative universe starts immediately, anyway if you believe this isn't free will an illusion and predestination driven by Karma the rule? I have asked this of Christian friends and most can't grasp the concept.

Most cannot grasp the concept because the concept is incomplete…it is that simple…a person must not feel bashful but more enthralled and enlightened because of it’s incompleteness. That is just the way the cookie of life crumbles; as we grow older ‘the more we learn the more we know how much we don’t know”…realization of this is enlightenment... and the expansion of exploring the ever expanding branches of the unknown…an act of wisdom?

keep it awesome
sinister

 

[Satyaban]

Sinister Ji:
Thank you for a great post filled with logic that can go a long way in science until we hit quantum physics and I am not sure how logic applies to God which is beyond our conception.

"Theoretically, absolute uncertainty is an unattainable state. Because in order to be absolutely uncertain one must be certain that they are uncertain; such a thought extrapolates to ad infinitum in a linguistic joyride."

A sort of mind experiment there. I don't know why but it reminds me of I think it was Schroedinger's cat, my library leaves me wanting, where it is not determined if the cat is dead or alive until it is observed. This of course is extended to the photon question of whether it is a particle or a wave and apparently it depends on what you are looking for. You look for wave behavior you get it, particle behavior you get it. Some like Richard Feynman suggested that maybe photon are wave until observed and then collapse into particles which would mean the moon would dissolve if not observed often enough and someone must be observing the observer and so on. So logic can be a problem in science. In my using the rug as an example and so forth I had the temeritry to look at it sort of from God's perspective. So my use of the word error and such was eentirely different as I said it was impossible for God to err.

"In deeper thoughts the contradictions begin. Like you said before you do not know what is good or bad or you felt unmerited to divulge good from bad. So why do you assume that God would make an error by performing an intervention? If you do not believe in good and bad you also cannot believe in the word ‘error’ as this word in linguistics is paralleled by the word wrong and carries an undesirable connotation and direct relationship with the word bad. This lack of consistency and cognitive dissonance is present in us all as I explained in my earlier posts. You also cannot believe in the word “correct” in its entirety."

I hope I have cleared this up.

I try very hard to separate science from religion, except where it is used to confirm or correct timelines it scripture, but it is not always easy especially when they seem to agree. I am a huge fan of Joseph Campbell and would strongly urge anyone who is seeking truth to read him to include "The Inner Reaches of Outer Space Myth and Metaphor as Religion" I have had many copies and give them away it can help explain alot about how we got to where we are from privitive cultures around the globe and into space.
I have a great deal of respect for Stephen Hawking and have a bit of a story about him. He was in Italy to address a symposium on theoretical physics of course and the day before he had and audience with Pope John I believe who cordially asked him to stop his work before he found God. The following day he gave his speech as planned on just that subject. I find it fascinating that the closer we get to for lack of a better term the edge of the universe the more we know about the beginning because where ever we stand we are in the middle.

"It is postulated that before the big bang everything existed in what is termed a point in geometry/or a singularity that can be represented theoretically in mathematical theorems (eg; Penrose-Hawking Singularity theorem) but whose physical properties are all but unknown to us. This indivisible, infinitesimally small, yet infinitesimally dense singularity held the universe and all its contents including the matter and energy that would become you, me, and my Teflon reinforced, non-stick, 106 inch, George Foreman Grill. What I find intriguing is that our origins are from the same point in this massive space-time continuum…and maybe that is where we all wish to return and in this is why we posit our notion of a mono/singular God as a destination. (while ignoring the journey)"

Yes indeed a singularity infiniely dense, infinitely small containing everything but God who I believe was sleeping who upon waking would create a new universe like the last one or maybe not. At the moment new laws of physics everything, maybe reversed polarities etc. I don't think it has anything to do with mono theism their was no consciousness at that time or for billions of years to come to leave even a vestige of a memory.
BTW how is that George Foreman grill working for you? I eat mostly grains myself.

"Most cannot grasp the concept because the concept is incomplete…it is that simple…a person must not feel bashful but more enthralled and enlightened because of it’s incompleteness. That is just the way the cookie of life crumbles; as we grow older ‘the more we learn the more we know how much we don’t know”…realization of this is enlightenment... and the expansion of exploring the ever expanding branches of the unknown…an act of wisdom?"

I am not sure if I understand you here. I understand the part about the more we know the more we learn we don't know or more simply put Ignorance is bliss.
All I have stated above is what I believe and how I understand it not how it is for the reader necessarily.

Peace to you and yours

 

[Satyaban]

vsgrewal48895

I have no rap for you.

Peace
Satyaban

 

[AusDesi]

As a Advaita/Vaishnavite and a Hindu I would say yes. Infact, in Bhagvad Gita Lord Krishna(Virat Roopa) himself says so.

"Even those who are the devotees of other gods and worship them with faithful reverence, even they O'Kauntelya, worship Me alone in essence, though not in accordance with the right approach."

Now please do note that in Bhagvat Gita, Lord Krishna is not speaking as a human being incarnation but as the supreme being.

So no matter what the name, if done with devotion all religions lead to god.

Alternatively, the shloka can also mean that there is no other god there is only one.

 

[vsgrewal48895]

DEVOTION/ਭਗਤੀ/ਸਾਧਨਾ​

ABSTRACT​

Devotion is a manifestation of deep affection or love. It can be an eager inclination, zeal or even an addiction. Such feelings toward God can be appropriately expressed by acts of worship; devoutness and commitment.

ਏਹਾ ਭਗਤਿ ਜਨੁ ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰੈ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਭਵਜਲੁ ਤਰੈ ॥

Ėhā bẖagaṯ jan jīvaṯ marai. Gur parsādī bẖavjal ṯarai.

True Devotion is to remain dead while yet alive. By Guru's Grace, one crosses over the terrible world-ocean.-----Guru Amardas, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 365-1

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Devotion as an ardent affection can be directed toward a person or a principle. It can be a pious dedication, or love of religious observance. One may bring eager feelings towards God and express them through acts of worship with devoutness. Devotion is one of the necessary perfections required in Sikhism for spiritual growth. It requires real dedication to Naam Simran and the Truth. It is characterized by Willingness. In daily life it is reflected in true humility from the core of one’s heart and in rigorous honesty one aims to attain God’s Grace. The Grace is required in controlling the mind to stay focused in devotion.

ਸਚੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਮਨੁ ਲਾਲੁ ਥੀਆ ਰਤਾ ਸਹਜਿ ਸੁਭਾਇ ॥ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਮਨੁ ਮੋਹਿਆ ਕਹਣਾ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

Sacẖī bẖagṯī man lāl thī¬ā raṯā sahj subẖā¬ė. Gur sabḏī man mohi¬ā kahṇā kacẖẖū na jā¬ė.

In true devotion, the mind is dyed in the deep crimson color of the Akal Purkh's Love. It brings intuitive peace and poise. The mind is fascinated by the Word of the Guru's Sabd, which cannot be described. -----Guru Amardas, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page, 36-13

What an individual is looking for in his life?

There is something inside telling us that there is more to life than meets the eye. We may sense that there are better ways to interact with our reality with deference. We want to open something inside but aren't sure what that something is. Each of us on this earth is at a different stage of spiritual journey. Others can preach to us, but they themselves may be unable to live according to what they profess.

ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਕਰੇ ਕਰਿ ਲੋਕ ਦਿ੍ੜਾਵੈ ॥ ਅਪਨਾ ਕਹਿਆ ਆਪਿ ਨ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥

Upḏės karė kar lok ḏariṛ¬āvai. Apnā kahi¬ā āp na kamāvai.

You preach to others to have faith, but you do not practice what you preach.-----Guru Arjan, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 887-18

The Spirit or Conscience is patiently waiting within each individual to be awakened. It can reach the highest level of awareness through one’s dedication and earnest devotion. One only has to follow the teachings of Sabd Guru:

ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਬਚਨੁ ਜਪਿ ਮੰਤੁ॥ ਏਹਾ ਭਗਤਿ ਸਾਰ ਤਤੁ ॥

Gur kā bacẖan jap manṯ. Ėhā bẖagaṯ sār ṯaṯ.

Chant the teaching of the Guru's Word. This is the essence of true devotional worship.-----Guru Arjan, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 895-8

Sikh Gurus have rejected rituals like the worshiping of stone sculptures as God. God could be unveiled in one’s self through devotion.

ਪਾਥਰੁ ਲੇ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਮੁਗਧ ਗਵਾਰ ॥ ਓਹਿ ਜਾ ਆਪਿ ਡੁਬੇ ਤੁਮ ਕਹਾ ਤਰਣਹਾਰ ॥

Pāthar lė pūjeh mugaḏẖ gavār. Ohi jā āp dubė ṯum kahā ṯaraṇhār.

The ignorant fools pick up stones and worship them. But when those stones themselves sink, who will carry you across? -----Guru Nanak, Raag Bihagra, AGGS, Page, 556-10

But Bhagat Dhanna got God out of the stone with Innocent devotion, given to him by a local Brahman.

ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਸੁਨਿ ਕੈ ਜਾਟਰੋ ਉਠਿ ਭਗਤੀ ਲਾਗਾ ॥ਮਿਲੇ ਪ੍ਰਤਖਿ ਗੁਸਾਈਆ ਧੰਨਾ ਵਡਭਾਗਾ ॥

Ih biḏẖ sun kai jātro uṯẖ bẖagṯī lāgā. Milė parṯakẖ gusā¬ī¬ā ḏẖannā vadbẖāgā.

Hearing this, Dhanna the Jaat applied himself to devotional worship. The Akal Purkh of the Universe met him personally; Dhanna was so very blessed. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 488-1

Although Dhanna began life as an idol worshipper, he eventually became devoted to the contemplation of Naam.

ਧੰਨੈ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਬਾਲ ਬੁਧਿ ॥

Ḏẖannai sėvi¬ā bāl buḏẖ.

Dhanna served the God, with the innocence of a child.-----Guru Arjan, Raag Basant, AGGS, Page, 1192-8

Love of God has nothing to do with what one is expecting to get. It is more about what you are expected to give -- which is everything. Devotion is the immortal flow of energy that nourishes, extends and preserves life. Its chief goal is to enhance the spiritual life.

ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਭਾਇ ਭਗਤੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਬੂਝ ਬੁਝਾਈ ॥

Prem Pareet Bhaey Bhagtee Paaee-ai Satgur Boojh Bujhaaee.

The True Guru has made me gain the understanding that the Akal Purkh is reached through affection and loving devotion.-----Guru Amardas, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 245-14

One’s daily life also benefits from spiritual growth. He may begin to find happiness in marriage, career, and other interests. Still intentions come easier than making actual, positive progress in spirituality. Active devotion can aid one both in spiritual and non-spiritual matters.
One can make time for any accomplishment, one chooses in life. However, modern man demands scientific proof of the validity of any practices, before he can be persuaded to accept them. They must serve the welfare of the individual or of society. This is true of values patronized in ancient spirituality as well. This is indeed a Herculean task, given the intellectual and scientific evolution the past millennium. There has been almost a simultaneous deterioration in religious and cultural life. The result is nearly a total neglect of spirituality and the emergence of blind faith. Misconceptions, prejudices and superstitions abound. Until and unless the principles of a faith are truly understood, there cannot be a true devotion to it. What are the prospects for an individual at the present in this regard?

ਪਾਖੰਡਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਬੋਲੁ ਖੁਆਰੁ ॥ ਸੋ ਜਨੁ ਰਲਾਇਆ ਨਾ ਰਲੈ ਜਿਸੁ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥

Pakhand Bhagat Na Hova-ee Dubidhaa Boal Khuaar, So Jan Ralaa-i-aa Naa Ralai Jis Antar Bibayk Beechaar.

Hypocrisy is not devotion. Words and thoughts of duality can only lead to misery. There are humble ones who filled with keen understanding and meditative contemplation intermingles with the others. Yet they remain distinct.-----Guru Amardas, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page, 28-17

Newer generation seems inclined to accept the New Leftist atheistic ideologies in the West. God and the religion tend to be regarded as phantom creations of the sick and fearful minds. Human body is seen merely as chemical combination of inert elements. The very existence of immortal consciousness is denied, A few in modern society also flirt with atheism like Dr.Dawkins, who claims God to be a mental delusion of the mortal. They view worship of God as futile because God did not respond to their selfish prayers and demands made in their distress. As a consequence, even a long held religiosity is discarded.

ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਪਰਤੀਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਗਾਵਿਆ ਥਾਇ ਪਵੈ ਸੋ ਪਾਵੈ ਦਰਗਹ ਮਾਨੁ ॥ਜੋ ਬਿਨੁ ਪਰਤੀਤੀ ਕਪਟੀ ਕੂੜੀ ਕੂੜੀ ਅਖੀ ਮੀਟਦੇ ਉਨ ਕਾ ਉਤਰਿ ਜਾਇਗਾ ਝੂਠੁ ਗੁਮਾਨੁ ॥

Jis No Parteet Hovai Tis Kaa Gaavi-aa Thaa-ay Pavai So Paavai Dargeh Maan, Jo Bin Parteetee Kapttee Koorhee Koorhee Akhee Meetday Oun Kaa Outar Jaaigaa Jhooth Gumaan.

One who has faith, his singing is approved. He is honored in the Court of the Akal Purkh. Those who lack faith may close their eyes, hypocritically pretending and faking devotion, but their false pretenses shall soon wear out.-----Guru Ramdas, Raag Suhi, AGGS, Page, 734-16

Our lives are not determined by what happens to us but by how we react to what happens to us. We are not enriched by what life brings to us, but by the attitude we bring to life. A positive attitude causes a chain reaction of positive thoughts, events, and outcomes. It is a catalyst, a spark that creates extraordinary results. Our purpose in life is, perhaps, to be useful, to be responsible, and to be compassionate while we lead a fuller life. This prospect is cancelled, however, once greed appears in the mind.

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਐਸਾ ਸੰਜਮੀ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਕਿ੍ਆ ਵਿਸੇਖ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰੇਇ ॥ ਔਤਰਿ ਲੋਭੁ ਮਨੁ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਮਾਹਿ ॥ ਓਇ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਪਾਹਿ ॥

Jay Ko Aisaa Sanjmee Hoey, Kirya Visaykh Poojaa Karaey, Antar Lobh Man Bikhiya Maa-eh, Oeay Niranjan Kaisay Paa-eh.

Someone practices self-discipline, compassion and devotional worship; but if he is filled with greed and if his mind is engrossed in corruption, how can he find the Immaculate Akal Purkh? -----Guru Amardas, Raag Basant, AGGS, Page, 1169-8

Activation of the subtle centers in the brain and the endocrine system can unleash the miraculous powers of the inner mind. It can reveal the extrasensory mental faculties in us. Sincere devotion in following the Sabd Guru makes this possible. Using these powers to produce miracles, however, is forbidden.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਕੀਜੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਆਪੈ ਆਪੁ ਮਿਲਾਏ ਬੂਝੈ ਤਾ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਕੋਇ ॥

Gurmukh Kirpaa Karay Bhagat Keejai Bin Gur Bhagat Na Hoay, Aapai Aap Milaa-ay Boojhai Taa Nirmal Hovai Ko-ay.

By God's Grace, the Gurmukh practices devotion. Without the Guru, devotional worship is not possible. One who merges his own self into Akal Purkh understands, and so becomes pure. -----Guru Amardas, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page, 64-15

ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਮੇਟੇ ਚਉਥੈ ਵਰਤੈ ਏਹਾ ਭਗਤਿ ਨਿਰਾਰੀ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜੋਗ ਸਬਦਿ ਆਤਮੁ ਚੀਨੈ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਏਕੁ ਮੁਰਾਰੀ ॥

Tarai Gun Maytay Cha-uthai Vartai Ayhaa Bhagat Niraaree, Gurmukh Jog Sabd Aatam Cheenai Hirdai Ayk Muraaree.

Eradicating the three qualities, dwell in the fourth state. This is the unparalleled devotional worship. This is the Yoga of the Guru willed: Through the Sabd, he understands his own conscience, and he enshrines within his heart the One Akal Purkh. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 908-3

Conclusion:

Spiritually enlightened mind is said to be a source of divine potentials. Hidden beneath the core of the conscious mind, there lie the prodigious powers of the unconscious mind. Devotion is the key to success in any project but more so in the life of the spirit. It is manifested in an ardent selfless affection, hope, faith and dedication. It is filled with God’s love. It gives a spiritual boost to the principle. In it one commits oneself in personal and private religious supplication to God and prays for understanding.

ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਆਨੰਦੁ ॥ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਪਾਏ ਪਰਮਾਨੰਦ ॥

Har Kee Bhagat Mukat Aanand, Gurmat Paa-ay Parmaanand.

Through devotional worship of the Akal Purkh, liberation and bliss are obtained. Through the Guru's Teachings, supreme ecstasy is obtained. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 154-15

ਏਹਾ ਭਗਤਿ ਚੂਕੈ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਿਐ ਹਯਵੈ ਪਰਵਾਨ ॥ ਜਿਨਿ ਆਸਾ ਕੀਤੀ ਤਿਸ ਨੋ ਜਾਨ ॥

Ayhaa Bhagat Chookai Abhimaan, Satgur Sayvi-ai Hovai Parvaan, Jin Aasaa Keetee Tis No Jaan.

By this devotional worship, egotism is eliminated. Serving the True Guru, one gains Its approval. So know the One, who created hope and desire.-----Guru Amardas, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 424-2

Virinder S. Grewal

 

[JimRinX]

AusDesi ji
You are Quite Right!
Though I call myself a Mahayana/Hinayana Buddhist (if only because The Great One - which is what I've come to call 'Om', 'God', 'Allah', the Duality Ahura Mazda/Angra Maynu - 'recommended' His Holiness, The Dali Lama, as someone whose teachings most closely mirrored what I was shown one wonderful day in 1991), when I entered the Bhakti - or Ananda - or 'I Transcended' - or 'I entered the Formless realm called the Bardo' - one fine day in 1991, and communed with The Great One, that is exactly what IT told me; then, so that I would believe when I awoke, it caused a white streak to appear in my hair, directly above and in-between my eyes.
The real question is; Can all of these 'Paths to God' cease to be 'Paths to Conflict', as well?
Can Sikhi forgive Hindu; The Hindu The Muslims; The Brahmin the Sikhi; The Jew the Catholic?!?
It Pains The Great One So, to see things the way they are.
Oh, and tell your Generals, Hindus, that 'W' didn't give you 3 Megaton Tech because he Loves You; he did so because he hopes you'll use it one one another!
He is a Racists - a White Supremacists; and if you Nuke yourselves into Oblivion - his type will send in the Robots to rape your Mutated Progeny of whatevers left.
Look Up - To The Moon, The Stars!

 

[JimRinX]

Sinister ji
The lack of any kind of 'Officially Endorsed' Christian Existentialism, is one of the main reasons I left the Catholic Church; though, if you look at, say, St John the Divines' writings through the eyes of a Dharma Practitioner, then you'll see that they let a few slip through the cracks.
The rest? Burned at the stake alive. The Church was, and to a lesser degree nowadays is, all about Control - not about seeking the Truth, let alone seeking it within.
The Borgias and Medici Popes saw to that; and, in the late 9th and early 10th Centuries of the 'Common Era', the 'Eccumenical Councils' eviscerated (from the Biblical Gospels) whatever was left of any kind of 'Pro-Gnosticism' content.
If you want to read about Christian Existentialism, read The Gnostic Gospels; which are based on some Scrolls (NOT the Dead Sea Scrolls) that some Bedouins found in a Jar in Egypt in the 1930s' (I think); they have many interesting, and by Catholic Standards Heretical (aka; They'd Burn You Alive for even reading them at one time), writings that - apparently - date to the 3rd and 4th C. CE.
There's even a Gospel of MARY! OMG - the very IDEA was once soooo UN-Clean!
I think Nestorius was the Last real Christian; but, true to form, the Eastern (Un)Holy Roman Pope had Him KILLED.
Addressing your, and Satyaban jis, Ideas about the Big Bang, etc. - through detailing my own Existential Experiences/Observations, and then reconciling them with QCM, String, and Brane/Bulk Theory would take several pages, and much time that I do not have right now.
If you go to my Introducing Myself and/or Bio Page, you'll see that I've had several blessed opportunities to get an answer (or, rather, part of one) to these issues right from OM's Own Mouth!
Keep Thinking! Some day we'll travel the Stars via our Minds as-of-yet untapped powers - just like in Dune!

 

[AusDesi]

The real question is; Can all of these 'Paths to God' cease to be 'Paths to Conflict', as well?

Ye they can be happy together but the problem is the orthdoxy in every religion. I like a quote from Kazi Nazrul Islam who was Indian bengali but later moved to Bangladesh.

‘’I can tolerate Hinduism and Muslims but I cannot tolerate the Tikism (Tiki is a tuft of never cut hair kept on the head by certain Hindus to maitain personal Holiness) and beardism. Tiki is not Hinduism. It may be the sign of the pundit. Similarly beards is not Islam, it may be the sign of the pundit. Similarly beard is not Islam, it may be the sign of the mollah. All the hair-pulling have originated from those two tufts of hair. Todays fighting is alos between the Pundit and the Mollah: It is not between the Hindus and the Muslims. No prophet has said, ‘’I have come for Hindus I have come for Muslims I have come for Christians.” They have said, “I have come for the humanity for everyone, like light’’. But the devotees of Krishna says, “Krishna is for Hindus”. The followers of Muhammad (Sm) says, “Muhammad (Sm) is for the Muslims”. The Disciple of Christ is for Christian”. Krishna-Muhammad-Christ have become national property. This property is the root of all trouble. Men do not quarrel for light but they quarrel over cattles.”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazrul_islam#cite_note-26

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazrul_islam#cite_note-26

 

[spnadmin]

No prophet has said, ‘’I have come for Hindus I have come for Muslims I have come for Christians.” They have said, “I have come for the humanity for everyone, like light’’. But the devotees of Krishna says, “Krishna is for Hindus”. The followers of Muhammad (Sm) says, “Muhammad (Sm) is for the Muslims”. The Disciple of Christ is for Christian”. Krishna-Muhammad-Christ have become national property. This property is the root of all trouble. Men do not quarrel for light but they quarrel over cattles.”

Aus Desi ji,

 

[AusDesi]

No prophet has said, ‘’I have come for Hindus I have come for Muslims I have come for Christians.” They have said, “I have come for the humanity for everyone, like light’’. But the devotees of Krishna says, “Krishna is for Hindus”. The followers of Muhammad (Sm) says, “Muhammad (Sm) is for the Muslims”. The Disciple of Christ is for Christian”. Krishna-Muhammad-Christ have become national property. This property is the root of all trouble. Men do not quarrel for light but they quarrel over cattles.”

Aus Desi ji,

I'm glad you liked it, Narayanjot Kaur ji.

 

[vsgrewal48895]

Dear Ausdesi Ji,

I concur with your deductions and agree with it. All prophets are for humanity not for a particular religion. Religions are formed by followers not by prophets. It is the followers who institutionalize these religions to control the other followers. Actually there is only one religion says Guru Nanak in Raag Basant;

ਏਕੋ ਧਰਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੈ ਸਚੁ ਕੋਈ ॥ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਪੂਰਾ ਜੁਗਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਸੋਈ ॥

Ayko Dharam Dirrhai Such Koyee, Gurmat Pooraa Jug Jug So-ee.

Let everyone grasp the truth that there is only one sole faith of righteousness. One guided by the Master, age after age stays perfect.
-----Guru Nanak, Raag Basant, AGGS, Page, 1188-15

Cordially,

Virinder

 

[AusDesi]

Dear Ausdesi Ji,

I concur with your deductions and agree with it. All prophets are for humanity not for a particular religion. Religions are formed by followers not by prophets. It is the followers who institutionalize these religions to control the other followers. Actually there is only one religion says Guru Nanak in Raag Basant;

ਏਕੋ ਧਰਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੈ ਸਚੁ ਕੋਈ ॥ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਪੂਰਾ ਜੁਗਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਸੋਈ ॥

Ayko Dharam Dirrhai Such Koyee, Gurmat Pooraa Jug Jug So-ee.

Let everyone grasp the truth that there is only one sole faith of righteousness. One guided by the Master, age after age stays perfect.
-----Guru Nanak, Raag Basant, AGGS, Page, 1188-15

Cordially,

Virinder

Virinder Saab,

The quote is not mine. It is of Kazi Nazrul Islam the Bengali poet. However, I do agree with the quote from AGGS.

 

[Satyaban]

AusDesi Ji:
Your opinions are a welcomed new voice to this site.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

As a Advaita/Vaishnavite and a Hindu I would say yes. Infact, in Bhagvad Gita Lord Krishna(Virat Roopa) himself says so.

"Even those who are the devotees of other gods and worship them with faithful reverence, even they O'Kauntelya, worship Me alone in essence, though not in accordance with the right approach."

Now please do note that in Bhagvat Gita, Lord Krishna is not speaking as a human being incarnation but as the supreme being.

So no matter what the name, if done with devotion all religions lead to god.

Alternatively, the shloka can also mean that there is no other god there is only one.

AusDesi ji,

Guru Fateh.

Your write:

Now please do note that in Bhagvat Gita, Lord Krishna is not speaking as a human being incarnation but as the supreme being.

What do you mean by" the supreme being"? Can you please elaborate that in lay man's terms?

Thanks.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Satyaban]

Sinister Ji:

I have not forgotten "Christian Existentialism" I was not aware what you were talking about until you mentioned gnostics and Nestorians. Let me tell you a little story.

My family lives in a compound of sorts the street bears my last name and my mother, one sister, two brothers, my two sons, and nephews all have their homes there. They are all fundamentalist Christians, my mother Southern Baptist, definitely the religious right. Anyhow for Christmas one year I gave my daughter in law a copy of "The Gospel of Saint Thomas" and my sister Shirley said I was a "most dangerous man". That was the last year I gave Christmas presents to my family.

So sure there is much I like about them as there is much I like about all religions. However their believing that the kingdom of God is here and God is to be found everywhere is something special in Christianity. Would it have been included in the Bible if available I think maybe not because it would be a threat to intercesion by priests, but perhaps St Thomas would have been a real heavy weight I don't know.

Peace
Satyaban