Do I Have A Duty To Correct The Sins Of My Fathers?

[Harry Haller]

Muskeveer ji ,You have a duty to yourself ,so correct your own and leave your fathers to correct theirs.

Gurfatehji

This is either one of the most misunderstood threads I have ever started, or my understanding is incorrect on this,.

The title is 'do I have a duty to correct the sins of my fathers'

Allow me to explain from the only angle I can, a personal one, My family, like all families contain genetic traits that have been refined through centuries. Not only genetic, but also traits that have been passed through the generations through habits and ritual. The sikh practices that have been passed down through the generations are also personal to our family, the understanding, the interpretation, the meaning of life, all passed down, refined, misquotes, misunderstandings, etc.

I have spoken to my father at length about his own personal fight with demons, and he maintains that there was no fight, he married my mother, he loved her dearly, he had kids, he got a job, he worked day and night, he kept up with all the family responsibilities, he attended births and deaths, marriages, and now in his sixties is completely at peace with himself. I am not fortunate enough to have the chemical soup my father has, and neither was my brother, to be honest, dad did not deserve either of us, I know we caused him much sadness along the way, however, when I look back into my family, there are personalities and even physical similarities that mirror mine.

This is not a thread about beating myself up about acts done long ago, it is about refining myself so that my contribution to the next generation brings knowledge, understanding, information. If I can talk to young people about the pure essence of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji without the ritual, without the facets that make us all here so dismayed, then maybe all that effort, to make sure sikhism is not misunderstood will filter through to someone, anyone, but that effort is by my own actions, so the point is, if we all behave in a manner that befits sikhism, and I am not talking here about maintaining a physical presence, but a spiritual one, if we all follow the tenants as laid out in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to the best of our abilities, not for us, not for the Creator, but so that our input into life changes the negatives into positives, changes misunderstanding into understanding, changes hate into love, if we can deal with every situation that arrives on our doorstep in the spirit of sikhi, then surely, we can make the world a better place, through action and thought.

I do sincerely believe that the more people act and think in a way that encourages unity, peace, love, not only for ourselves, for our fellow species, for the environment, this will balance the molecules of hate and anger that so freely penetrate us as a society.

Do we have a duty to behave like this? Yes I believe we do, a duty to ourselves and a duty to the Creator

Note, although I have mentioned spiritual presence over physical presence, my belief is that we carry ourselves spiritually for the Creator, our physical presence is irrelevant, in the sense that once one is doing the Creators work, all the physical facets of sikhism will present themselves as our way of showing gratitude and respect to the Creator and Creation, in the same way that if you eat carrots all the time, you cannot stop your skin pigment taking on an orange hue, thus, if you think and act within Gurbani, your hair will flow

 

[Harry Haller]

Joginder Singh Foley ji thanks indeed you are very correct.

It is commonly understood that worst kind of insult that you can give anyone is to "Ignore them". So by interacting, sharing, enabling one only proves the key qualities in life of empathy, compassion and togetherness.

Sat Sri Akal.

You only have to look at the news and the media to see how young children growing up, would not take the route of 'ignore them' certainly in international politics, they are shown that the right way has nothing to do with empathy, compassion and togetherness, If the events of 84 had been dealt with in a transparent and fair manner, would that not have affected and changed the lives and attitudes of many, if Gadaffi had been treated with some dignity and put on trial and even eventually executed, would this not have sent a message out, that attitudes are changing, we are not animals, we are humans , we can be fair, rather than mob rule works?

I agree completely that the worst thing you can do to someone that is looking for a reaction is to react, the more people behave like this, the more chance this concept has of becoming the norm

 

[Ambarsaria]

Gurfatehji

This is either one of the most misunderstood threads I have ever started, or my understanding is incorrect on this,.

The title is 'do I have a duty to correct the sins of my fathers'

Allow me to explain from the only angle I can, a personal one, My family, like all families contain genetic traits that have been refined through centuries. Not only genetic, but also traits that have been passed through the generations through habits and ritual. The sikh practices that have been passed down through the generations are also personal to our family, the understanding, the interpretation, the meaning of life, all passed down, refined, misquotes, misunderstandings, etc.

I have spoken to my father at length about his own personal fight with demons, and he maintains that there was no fight, he married my mother, he loved her dearly, he had kids, he got a job, he worked day and night, he kept up with all the family responsibilities, he attended births and deaths, marriages, and now in his sixties is completely at peace with himself. I am not fortunate enough to have the chemical soup my father has, and neither was my brother, to be honest, dad did not deserve either of us, I know we caused him much sadness along the way, however, when I look back into my family, there are personalities and even physical similarities that mirror mine.

This is not a thread about beating myself up about acts done long ago, it is about refining myself so that my contribution to the next generation brings knowledge, understanding, information. If I can talk to young people about the pure essence of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji without the ritual, without the facets that make us all here so dismayed, then maybe all that effort, to make sure sikhism is not misunderstood will filter through to someone, anyone, but that effort is by my own actions, so the point is, if we all behave in a manner that befits sikhism, and I am not talking here about maintaining a physical presence, but a spiritual one, if we all follow the tenants as laid out in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to the best of our abilities, not for us, not for the Creator, but so that our input into life changes the negatives into positives, changes misunderstanding into understanding, changes hate into love, if we can deal with every situation that arrives on our doorstep in the spirit of sikhi, then surely, we can make the world a better place, through action and thought.

I do sincerely believe that the more people act and think in a way that encourages unity, peace, love, not only for ourselves, for our fellow species, for the environment, this will balance the molecules of hate and anger that so freely penetrate us as a society.

Do we have a duty to behave like this? Yes I believe we do, a duty to ourselves and a duty to the Creator

Note, although I have mentioned spiritual presence over physical presence, my belief is that we carry ourselves spiritually for the Creator, our physical presence is irrelevant, in the sense that once one is doing the Creators work, all the physical facets of sikhism will present themselves as our way of showing gratitude and respect to the Creator and Creation, in the same way that if you eat carrots all the time, you cannot stop your skin pigment taking on an orange hue, thus, if you think and act within Gurbani, your hair will flow

Harry veer ji there is absolutely nothing to contest in the above. Most of my writing at spn is directed at this. That is also why I get angry at times when I see counter productive posts with the central tenet of evading, putting-down, discouraging, etc., versus helping, sharing, explaining, encouraging, etc.

Unfortunately the thread title does encourage people to go on a tangent. May be spnadmin ji can fine tune it.

Keep up the great work. You are blessed my brother. I am sure your father will be more than proud and happy about who you turned out to be who cares when you turn out to be so peacesign
Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Harry Haller]

Ambersariaji,

I always know when you do not agree with my postings as you tend to refer to me as Harry Haller, not plain Harry 0

I am glad we cleared that misunderstanding up as although Veer SPji refers to you as chief muskateer, you are more like Uncle Bulgaria from the Wombles to me.

I can now see the how the title could suggest cleansing rituals for sins long done, maybe if Adminji could change it to 'Can my actions make the world a better place'

To be honest, I only started this thread to deviate away from another that Spadesji had raised some points, and I used the terminology that was present in that post, looking back, it of course gave the impression that it was a personal viewpoint, I also did not take enough care to ensure lack of ambiguity, apologiespeacesignkaur

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

The short answer is NO, you have no duty to correct the sins of anyone, if only because that would be impossible. The past is gone and cannot be corrected.

Your duty is to make this world a better place, cleaner, more just, less harsh, more conducive to truthful living irregardless of who might have screwed things up. Sikhi is results-oriented, not blame-oriented.

As for correcting "sins," I think we need to discuss the concept, or rather lack of concept, of sin in Sikhi. I mean, Sikhi does not regard sin as an offense against God, as I understand the Abrahamic religions do, since Waheguru cannot be offended. Perhaps you mean something like "wrong actions" or "counterproductive actions"?

I am confusing myself, so perhaps I had better let some of the more learned members respond.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Your duty is to make this world a better place, cleaner, more just, less harsh, more conducive to truthful living

InderjeetKaur ji I'm not a more learned member but while we wait for them let me just say this:

Your duty is to make this [Self] a better place, cleaner, more just, less harsh, more conducive to truthful living.
If we change our Self ,the world changes by consequence.The wrong actions are counterproductive and a sin against our Self.

 

[Harry Haller]

The short answer is NO, you have no duty to correct the sins of anyone, if only because that would be impossible. The past is gone and cannot be corrected.

Your duty is to make this world a better place, cleaner, more just, less harsh, more conducive to truthful living irregardless of who might have screwed things up. Sikhi is results-oriented, not blame-oriented.

As for correcting "sins," I think we need to discuss the concept, or rather lack of concept, of sin in Sikhi. I mean, Sikhi does not regard sin as an offense against God, as I understand the Abrahamic religions do, since Waheguru cannot be offended. Perhaps you mean something like "wrong actions" or "counterproductive actions"?

I am confusing myself, so perhaps I had better let some of the more learned members respond.

I should apologise, the title is badly worded, I suppose I am talking more about attitudes and thinking, rather than physically beating yourself up about things that happened generations ago,

you are absolutely correct, and SPji could have answered this, but the phrase 'learned members' does not apply to either of us!

However, as it was my thread, there is no sin in sikhism, I am talking not even about wrong actions, I am talking about the way our minds work, the way they process information, the way our bodies desire sensory pleasure, each generation can either make a better way of thinking, or a worse one, ie one that is more in consonance with creation or less, hope that helps,

Spadesji, next time I will let you start your own threadslol