Do Sikhs Fear God?
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To ignore and forget God's punishments is to be careless and foolish in our actions - (its easier to drink alcohol or gamble when a non punishing God rules!) So in that sense I think it's healthy for the soul to fear Gods punishment. I'm quite sure Fear is not the central rule of any Abrahamic religion, I;ve been told its Love. but i think thts another topic
Yes okay, but many "God fearing" Muslims, for instance, have raped women and partaken in slave trading whilst they have claimed to be "God fearing", as the tenants of their faith is a bit lax in this area, offering them the opportunity to do this with minimal penalty in their minds. Christians too have been engaged in such actions on a large scale.
The examples you gave (gambling and alcohol) give a clear demonstration of how certain things are prohibited by certain religions, whilst other vile things are excused. That is what happens when you follow religion like a brainless lemming and not a reflecting conscious being.
A central concept of Sikhis is inner reflection and attunement with God's righteousness. This guides.
Hey man, I don't really see myself as an exempler Sikh so it's cool. I'm just trying to understand and discover myself. Then apply, which is the hardest bit.
I'm glad you got your answers. And on reflection I'm glad you asked some of the questions you did because thinking about them made me aware of certain things that I had never thought of.
Something I learnt is that fear of God alone doesn't lead to a righteous life. I know many fundamentalists are driven by the fear of a punishing God and damnation. So you can clearly say they fear God. Despite this, their actions can sometimes become twisted and cruel, bordering on the extremes of inhumanity. This is because their faith (or at least how they interpret it), explicitly dictates what is permissable and what not, and this is often influenced by the cultural mileu within which the faith emerged. Hence the keeping of harems and slaves (for example) is acceptable in Islam and a man can do this and still be considered a virtuous Muslim.
The point can be made that we do not really fear God, but fear the retribution that may be dispensed on transgressing specific actions considered acceptable. These vary from religion to religion. When certain adherants of particular religions view others they may well be highly sensitive to the behaviours/conventions of the "other" that are in stark contrast to thir own codes. The final point is that religions that lay down rigid specific, inflexible codes may be in danger of not possessing a degree of dynamism that make them flexible enough to deal with a rapidly changing world and cause them to conflict and resist changes, sometimes for understandable reasons, sometimes not.
That being said, there is much to the fact that Guru Nanak Ji describes God as nirvair or without hate in the first page of the Sikh holy book.
I'm glad you got your answers. And on reflection I'm glad you asked some of the questions you did because thinking about them made me aware of certain things that I had never thought of.
Something I learnt is that fear of God alone doesn't lead to a righteous life. I know many fundamentalists are driven by the fear of a punishing God and damnation. So you can clearly say they fear God. Despite this, their actions can sometimes become twisted and cruel, bordering on the extremes of inhumanity. This is because their faith (or at least how they interpret it), explicitly dictates what is permissable and what not, and this is often influenced by the cultural mileu within which the faith emerged. Hence the keeping of harems and slaves (for example) is acceptable in Islam and a man can do this and still be considered a virtuous Muslim.
The point can be made that we do not really fear God, but fear the retribution that may be dispensed on transgressing specific actions considered acceptable. These vary from religion to religion. When certain adherants of particular religions view others they may well be highly sensitive to the behaviours/conventions of the "other" that are in stark contrast to thir own codes. The final point is that religions that lay down rigid specific, inflexible codes may be in danger of not possessing a degree of dynamism that make them flexible enough to deal with a rapidly changing world and cause them to conflict and resist changes, sometimes for understandable reasons, sometimes not.
That being said, there is much to the fact that Guru Nanak Ji describes God as nirvair or without hate in the first page of the Sikh holy book.
Well Benjamin
I think I've said all I can on the subject from my end.
For the record, here is a definition of transgression, you seem to have misunderstood the meaning.
transgression
the action of going beyond or overstepping some boundary or limit
My point was that some people fear this because of the punishment arising from this, as opposed to God per se. So they rigidly stick to rules in a book and do not use the internal moral compass. So whilst they may follow their rules rigidly and technically, their actions can still be immoral.
Hope you enjoyed. Even though I think you are having difficulties following the trains of ideas in the thread. In the end, the answer to your question of Sikhs fearing God is that in practice many Sikhs do not "fear" God as in being in terror at the thought of some retribution.
Also thanks for highlighting the importance of understanding Gurbani holistically. Now for you (and me!) to balance what we have learnt about fearing God can I suggest you do another search on Gurbani but this time using love. This will help you understand better.
I know the forum rules are to post complete shabads, but I will break with protocol just to give you an idea of what you will encounter: (sorry fellow admins)
Page 32, Line 17
ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਰਤਾ ਰੰਗ ਸਿਉ ਹਉਮੈ ਤਜਿ ਵਿਕਾਰ ॥
मनु तनु रता रंग सिउ हउमै तजि विकार ॥
Man ṯan raṯā rang si▫o ha▫umai ṯaj vikār.
One whose mind and body are imbued with the Lord's Love gives up egotism and corruption.
Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
Page 33, Line 6
ਨਾਨਕ ਸਹਜੇ ਹੀ ਰੰਗਿ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਪਾਵੈ ਸੋਇ ॥੪॥੧੭॥੫੦॥
नानक सहजे ही रंगि वरतदा हरि गुण पावै सोइ ॥४॥१७॥५०॥
Nānak sėhje hī rang varaṯḏā har guṇ pāvai so▫e. ||4||17||50||
O Nanak, one who lives in intuitive peace and poise, imbued with the Lord's Love, obtains the Glorious Praises of the Lord. ||4||17||50||
Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
Page 2, Line 3
ਸਾਚਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਾਚੁ ਨਾਇ ਭਾਖਿਆ ਭਾਉ ਅਪਾਰੁ ॥
साचा साहिबु साचु नाइ भाखिआ भाउ अपारु ॥
Sācẖā sāhib sācẖ nā▫e bẖākẖi▫ā bẖā▫o apār.
True is the Master, True is His Name-speak it with infinite love.
Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
Page 2, Line 8
ਗਾਵੀਐ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਮਨਿ ਰਖੀਐ ਭਾਉ ॥
गावीऐ सुणीऐ मनि रखीऐ भाउ ॥
Gāvī▫ai suṇī▫ai man rakẖī▫ai bẖā▫o.
Sing, and listen, and let your mind be filled with love.
Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
I think I've said all I can on the subject from my end.
For the record, here is a definition of transgression, you seem to have misunderstood the meaning.
transgression
the action of going beyond or overstepping some boundary or limit
My point was that some people fear this because of the punishment arising from this, as opposed to God per se. So they rigidly stick to rules in a book and do not use the internal moral compass. So whilst they may follow their rules rigidly and technically, their actions can still be immoral.
Hope you enjoyed. Even though I think you are having difficulties following the trains of ideas in the thread. In the end, the answer to your question of Sikhs fearing God is that in practice many Sikhs do not "fear" God as in being in terror at the thought of some retribution.
Also thanks for highlighting the importance of understanding Gurbani holistically. Now for you (and me!) to balance what we have learnt about fearing God can I suggest you do another search on Gurbani but this time using love. This will help you understand better.
I know the forum rules are to post complete shabads, but I will break with protocol just to give you an idea of what you will encounter: (sorry fellow admins)
Page 32, Line 17
ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਰਤਾ ਰੰਗ ਸਿਉ ਹਉਮੈ ਤਜਿ ਵਿਕਾਰ ॥
मनु तनु रता रंग सिउ हउमै तजि विकार ॥
Man ṯan raṯā rang si▫o ha▫umai ṯaj vikār.
One whose mind and body are imbued with the Lord's Love gives up egotism and corruption.
Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
Page 33, Line 6
ਨਾਨਕ ਸਹਜੇ ਹੀ ਰੰਗਿ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਪਾਵੈ ਸੋਇ ॥੪॥੧੭॥੫੦॥
नानक सहजे ही रंगि वरतदा हरि गुण पावै सोइ ॥४॥१७॥५०॥
Nānak sėhje hī rang varaṯḏā har guṇ pāvai so▫e. ||4||17||50||
O Nanak, one who lives in intuitive peace and poise, imbued with the Lord's Love, obtains the Glorious Praises of the Lord. ||4||17||50||
Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
Page 2, Line 3
ਸਾਚਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਾਚੁ ਨਾਇ ਭਾਖਿਆ ਭਾਉ ਅਪਾਰੁ ॥
साचा साहिबु साचु नाइ भाखिआ भाउ अपारु ॥
Sācẖā sāhib sācẖ nā▫e bẖākẖi▫ā bẖā▫o apār.
True is the Master, True is His Name-speak it with infinite love.
Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
Page 2, Line 8
ਗਾਵੀਐ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਮਨਿ ਰਖੀਐ ਭਾਉ ॥
गावीऐ सुणीऐ मनि रखीऐ भाउ ॥
Gāvī▫ai suṇī▫ai man rakẖī▫ai bẖā▫o.
Sing, and listen, and let your mind be filled with love.
Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
Last edited by a moderator:
This I think sums it up, for both of us:
ਤੀਰਥੁ ਤਪੁ ਦਇਆ ਦਤੁ ਦਾਨੁ ॥
तीरथु तपु दइआ दतु दानु ॥
Ŧirath ṯap ḏa▫i▫ā ḏaṯ ḏān.
Pilgrimages, austere discipline, compassion and charity -
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਪਾਵੈ ਤਿਲ ਕਾ ਮਾਨੁ ॥
जे को पावै तिल का मानु ॥
Je ko pāvai ṯil kā mān.
these, by themselves, bring only an iota of merit.
ਸੁਣਿਆ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਮਨਿ ਕੀਤਾ ਭਾਉ ॥
सुणिआ मंनिआ मनि कीता भाउ ॥
Suṇi▫ā mani▫ā man kīṯā bẖā▫o.
Listening and believing with love and humility in your mind,
ਅੰਤਰਗਤਿ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਮਲਿ ਨਾਉ ॥
अंतरगति तीरथि मलि नाउ ॥
Anṯargaṯ ṯirath mal nā▫o.
cleanse yourself with the Name, at the sacred shrine deep within.
ਸਭਿ ਗੁਣ ਤੇਰੇ ਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥
सभि गुण तेरे मै नाही कोइ ॥
Sabẖ guṇ ṯere mai nāhī ko▫e.
All virtues are Yours, Lord, I have none at all.
ਵਿਣੁ ਗੁਣ ਕੀਤੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
विणु गुण कीते भगति न होइ ॥
viṇ guṇ kīṯe bẖagaṯ na ho▫e.
Without virtue, there is no devotional worship.
ਸੁਅਸਤਿ ਆਥਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਬਰਮਾਉ ॥
सुअसति आथि बाणी बरमाउ ॥
Su▫asaṯ āth baṇī barmā▫o.
I bow to the Lord of the World, to His Word, to Brahma the Creator.
ਸਤਿ ਸੁਹਾਣੁ ਸਦਾ ਮਨਿ ਚਾਉ ॥
सति सुहाणु सदा मनि चाउ ॥
Saṯ suhāṇ saḏā man cẖā▫o.
He is Beautiful, True and Eternally Joyful.
ਕਵਣੁ ਸੁ ਵੇਲਾ ਵਖਤੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਕਵਣ ਥਿਤਿ ਕਵਣੁ ਵਾਰੁ ॥
कवणु सु वेला वखतु कवणु कवण थिति कवणु वारु ॥
Kavaṇ so velā vakẖaṯ kavaṇ kavaṇ thiṯ kavaṇ vār.
What was that time, and what was that moment? What was that day, and what was that date?
ਕਵਣਿ ਸਿ ਰੁਤੀ ਮਾਹੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਹੋਆ ਆਕਾਰੁ ॥
कवणि सि रुती माहु कवणु जितु होआ आकारु ॥
Kavaṇ sė ruṯī māhu kavaṇ jiṯ ho▫ā ākār.
What was that season, and what was that month, when the Universe was created?
ਵੇਲ ਨ ਪਾਈਆ ਪੰਡਤੀ ਜਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਲੇਖੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
वेल न पाईआ पंडती जि होवै लेखु पुराणु ॥
vel na pā▫ī▫ā pandṯī jė hovai lekẖ purāṇ.
The Pandits, the religious scholars, cannot find that time, even if it is written in the Puraanas.
ਵਖਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਕਾਦੀਆ ਜਿ ਲਿਖਨਿ ਲੇਖੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
वखतु न पाइओ कादीआ जि लिखनि लेखु कुराणु ॥
vakẖaṯ na pā▫i▫o kāḏī▫ā jė likẖan lekẖ kurāṇ.
That time is not known to the Qazis, who study the Koran.
ਥਿਤਿ ਵਾਰੁ ਨਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਜਾਣੈ ਰੁਤਿ ਮਾਹੁ ਨਾ ਕੋਈ ॥
थिति वारु ना जोगी जाणै रुति माहु ना कोई ॥
Thiṯ vār nā jogī jāṇai ruṯ māhu nā ko▫ī.
The day and the date are not known to the Yogis, nor is the month or the season.
ਜਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਿਰਠੀ ਕਉ ਸਾਜੇ ਆਪੇ ਜਾਣੈ ਸੋਈ ॥
जा करता सिरठी कउ साजे आपे जाणै सोई ॥
Jā karṯā sirṯẖī ka▫o sāje āpe jāṇai so▫ī.
The Creator who created this creation-only He Himself knows.
ਕਿਵ ਕਰਿ ਆਖਾ ਕਿਵ ਸਾਲਾਹੀ ਕਿਉ ਵਰਨੀ ਕਿਵ ਜਾਣਾ ॥
किव करि आखा किव सालाही किउ वरनी किव जाणा ॥
Kiv kar ākẖā kiv sālāhī ki▫o varnī kiv jāṇā.
How can we speak of Him? How can we praise Him? How can we describe Him? How can we know Him?
ਨਾਨਕ ਆਖਣਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਇਕ ਦੂ ਇਕੁ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥
नानक आखणि सभु को आखै इक दू इकु सिआणा ॥
Nānak ākẖaṇ sabẖ ko ākẖai ik ḏū ik si▫āṇā.
O Nanak, everyone speaks of Him, each one wiser than the rest.
ਵਡਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਵਡੀ ਨਾਈ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਹੋਵੈ ॥
वडा साहिबु वडी नाई कीता जा का होवै ॥
vadā sāhib vadī nā▫ī kīṯā jā kā hovai.
Great is the Master, Great is His Name. Whatever happens is according to His Will.
ਨਾਨਕ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਪੌ ਜਾਣੈ ਅਗੈ ਗਇਆ ਨ ਸੋਹੈ ॥੨੧॥
नानक जे को आपौ जाणै अगै गइआ न सोहै ॥२१॥
Nānak je ko āpou jāṇai agai ga▫i▫ā na sohai. ||21||
O Nanak, one who claims to know everything shall not be decorated in the world hereafter. ||21||
ਤੀਰਥੁ ਤਪੁ ਦਇਆ ਦਤੁ ਦਾਨੁ ॥
तीरथु तपु दइआ दतु दानु ॥
Ŧirath ṯap ḏa▫i▫ā ḏaṯ ḏān.
Pilgrimages, austere discipline, compassion and charity -
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਪਾਵੈ ਤਿਲ ਕਾ ਮਾਨੁ ॥
जे को पावै तिल का मानु ॥
Je ko pāvai ṯil kā mān.
these, by themselves, bring only an iota of merit.
ਸੁਣਿਆ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਮਨਿ ਕੀਤਾ ਭਾਉ ॥
सुणिआ मंनिआ मनि कीता भाउ ॥
Suṇi▫ā mani▫ā man kīṯā bẖā▫o.
Listening and believing with love and humility in your mind,
ਅੰਤਰਗਤਿ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਮਲਿ ਨਾਉ ॥
अंतरगति तीरथि मलि नाउ ॥
Anṯargaṯ ṯirath mal nā▫o.
cleanse yourself with the Name, at the sacred shrine deep within.
ਸਭਿ ਗੁਣ ਤੇਰੇ ਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥
सभि गुण तेरे मै नाही कोइ ॥
Sabẖ guṇ ṯere mai nāhī ko▫e.
All virtues are Yours, Lord, I have none at all.
ਵਿਣੁ ਗੁਣ ਕੀਤੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
विणु गुण कीते भगति न होइ ॥
viṇ guṇ kīṯe bẖagaṯ na ho▫e.
Without virtue, there is no devotional worship.
ਸੁਅਸਤਿ ਆਥਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਬਰਮਾਉ ॥
सुअसति आथि बाणी बरमाउ ॥
Su▫asaṯ āth baṇī barmā▫o.
I bow to the Lord of the World, to His Word, to Brahma the Creator.
ਸਤਿ ਸੁਹਾਣੁ ਸਦਾ ਮਨਿ ਚਾਉ ॥
सति सुहाणु सदा मनि चाउ ॥
Saṯ suhāṇ saḏā man cẖā▫o.
He is Beautiful, True and Eternally Joyful.
ਕਵਣੁ ਸੁ ਵੇਲਾ ਵਖਤੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਕਵਣ ਥਿਤਿ ਕਵਣੁ ਵਾਰੁ ॥
कवणु सु वेला वखतु कवणु कवण थिति कवणु वारु ॥
Kavaṇ so velā vakẖaṯ kavaṇ kavaṇ thiṯ kavaṇ vār.
What was that time, and what was that moment? What was that day, and what was that date?
ਕਵਣਿ ਸਿ ਰੁਤੀ ਮਾਹੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਹੋਆ ਆਕਾਰੁ ॥
कवणि सि रुती माहु कवणु जितु होआ आकारु ॥
Kavaṇ sė ruṯī māhu kavaṇ jiṯ ho▫ā ākār.
What was that season, and what was that month, when the Universe was created?
ਵੇਲ ਨ ਪਾਈਆ ਪੰਡਤੀ ਜਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਲੇਖੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
वेल न पाईआ पंडती जि होवै लेखु पुराणु ॥
vel na pā▫ī▫ā pandṯī jė hovai lekẖ purāṇ.
The Pandits, the religious scholars, cannot find that time, even if it is written in the Puraanas.
ਵਖਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਕਾਦੀਆ ਜਿ ਲਿਖਨਿ ਲੇਖੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
वखतु न पाइओ कादीआ जि लिखनि लेखु कुराणु ॥
vakẖaṯ na pā▫i▫o kāḏī▫ā jė likẖan lekẖ kurāṇ.
That time is not known to the Qazis, who study the Koran.
ਥਿਤਿ ਵਾਰੁ ਨਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਜਾਣੈ ਰੁਤਿ ਮਾਹੁ ਨਾ ਕੋਈ ॥
थिति वारु ना जोगी जाणै रुति माहु ना कोई ॥
Thiṯ vār nā jogī jāṇai ruṯ māhu nā ko▫ī.
The day and the date are not known to the Yogis, nor is the month or the season.
ਜਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਿਰਠੀ ਕਉ ਸਾਜੇ ਆਪੇ ਜਾਣੈ ਸੋਈ ॥
जा करता सिरठी कउ साजे आपे जाणै सोई ॥
Jā karṯā sirṯẖī ka▫o sāje āpe jāṇai so▫ī.
The Creator who created this creation-only He Himself knows.
ਕਿਵ ਕਰਿ ਆਖਾ ਕਿਵ ਸਾਲਾਹੀ ਕਿਉ ਵਰਨੀ ਕਿਵ ਜਾਣਾ ॥
किव करि आखा किव सालाही किउ वरनी किव जाणा ॥
Kiv kar ākẖā kiv sālāhī ki▫o varnī kiv jāṇā.
How can we speak of Him? How can we praise Him? How can we describe Him? How can we know Him?
ਨਾਨਕ ਆਖਣਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਇਕ ਦੂ ਇਕੁ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥
नानक आखणि सभु को आखै इक दू इकु सिआणा ॥
Nānak ākẖaṇ sabẖ ko ākẖai ik ḏū ik si▫āṇā.
O Nanak, everyone speaks of Him, each one wiser than the rest.
ਵਡਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਵਡੀ ਨਾਈ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਹੋਵੈ ॥
वडा साहिबु वडी नाई कीता जा का होवै ॥
vadā sāhib vadī nā▫ī kīṯā jā kā hovai.
Great is the Master, Great is His Name. Whatever happens is according to His Will.
ਨਾਨਕ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਪੌ ਜਾਣੈ ਅਗੈ ਗਇਆ ਨ ਸੋਹੈ ॥੨੧॥
नानक जे को आपौ जाणै अगै गइआ न सोहै ॥२१॥
Nānak je ko āpou jāṇai agai ga▫i▫ā na sohai. ||21||
O Nanak, one who claims to know everything shall not be decorated in the world hereafter. ||21||
Look Benjamin
I'm not here to give English lessons but........<groan>
we do not really fear God, but fear the retribution that may be dispensed on transgressing specific actions
When I used "we" in the quoted context I was referring to the general habits of people, not Sikhs.
I notice you really like to applaud your own genius in your posts. So thought I'd give you this in recognition of your 'intellectual prowess'....enjoy Ben!
Seriously, I can't even be bothered to make the effort to respond to your juvenille attempts to show us all just what a smart boy you are and how dumb the rest of us are! Enjoy the peanuts and please go and share your wisdom with some of the Abrahamic faith websites on the Internet as it would be a sin for us at SPN to keep such a delightful person as you, all to ourselves.
I'm not here to give English lessons but........<groan>
we do not really fear God, but fear the retribution that may be dispensed on transgressing specific actions
When I used "we" in the quoted context I was referring to the general habits of people, not Sikhs.
I notice you really like to applaud your own genius in your posts. So thought I'd give you this in recognition of your 'intellectual prowess'....enjoy Ben!
Seriously, I can't even be bothered to make the effort to respond to your juvenille attempts to show us all just what a smart boy you are and how dumb the rest of us are! Enjoy the peanuts and please go and share your wisdom with some of the Abrahamic faith websites on the Internet as it would be a sin for us at SPN to keep such a delightful person as you, all to ourselves.
BHAEIH in Sikhi/Gurmatt has MORE to do with HUKM..DISCIPLINE...LAWS..of the CREATOR...than with "fear of punishment" etc etc.
WE Follow the HUKM..the Laws..the Discipline....HUKM RAZAEE CHALLNNA is Paramount in Gurmatt.
We dont cringe in fear.....and hide our faces...because the Creator as per Gurmatt is NOT like that.We take ONE STEP.and HE takes a MILLION STEPS FORWARD to EMBRACE US..in LOVE !! HE FORGIVES in an instant...blink of the eye...all we got to do is ASK....:welcome::welcome:
WE Follow the HUKM..the Laws..the Discipline....HUKM RAZAEE CHALLNNA is Paramount in Gurmatt.
We dont cringe in fear.....and hide our faces...because the Creator as per Gurmatt is NOT like that.We take ONE STEP.and HE takes a MILLION STEPS FORWARD to EMBRACE US..in LOVE !! HE FORGIVES in an instant...blink of the eye...all we got to do is ASK....:welcome::welcome:
I think that you should ask yourself whether you fear God.
Do you fear God. Perhaps you do and for that reason you follow a religion and the precepts as laid down by the religion. There is the fear of not belonging to something greater. The fear of being alone, the fear of not being, the fear of death. And in this fear, one decides to follow a religion, because he is afraid of the unknown and therefore has to bring everything in to the remit of his limitef understanding and his intellect. Death is the unknown, and therefore to become comfortable with it, just as a mother by console the child if he is afraid and tell him all will be OK; in the same vain we accept a religion, as this tells us that everything will be OK. One therefore takes a religion and a way of life in which to guide his or her life, as this is easier than finding out for yourself.
As far as I understand, coming from a Sikh heritage, Sikhs do not fear God, in that they submit for the fear of repercussions. Once one is a Sikh there is the belief that the repitition of the name will endear you to Waheguru and hence there is no reason to fear. Some do fear God and perhaps become neurotic endless preachers, however most are content with praising God, and have not fear, but more so a reverance, sentimental and romantic notions of their idea of love for this God.
Gurbani seems to make great mention of fear, or words that we have translated as fear. However, I am uncertain as to whether these are the most appropriate translation in every sense. And that where there is a translation as fear, one should delve in further and look to the context in which things are written, in order to gain a greater appreciation of its aesthetic value.
However, to accept fear is a most ungracious thing. A God that induces fear, is a God that should be rejected and not at all patronised. Any action out of fear leads to horrendous consequences. All people that appear to follow and submit to the ostensible so called 'will of God' out of fear of God act most unkindly to others, their actions having been apparently sanctioned by God - killing others in the name of God, repradation and pillaging.
In the human there should be no place for fear. If humans were not always so fearful, they may just lead their lives with greater vitality, rather than the daily torment of sorrow and misery that it has become.
Charanjit
Do you fear God. Perhaps you do and for that reason you follow a religion and the precepts as laid down by the religion. There is the fear of not belonging to something greater. The fear of being alone, the fear of not being, the fear of death. And in this fear, one decides to follow a religion, because he is afraid of the unknown and therefore has to bring everything in to the remit of his limitef understanding and his intellect. Death is the unknown, and therefore to become comfortable with it, just as a mother by console the child if he is afraid and tell him all will be OK; in the same vain we accept a religion, as this tells us that everything will be OK. One therefore takes a religion and a way of life in which to guide his or her life, as this is easier than finding out for yourself.
As far as I understand, coming from a Sikh heritage, Sikhs do not fear God, in that they submit for the fear of repercussions. Once one is a Sikh there is the belief that the repitition of the name will endear you to Waheguru and hence there is no reason to fear. Some do fear God and perhaps become neurotic endless preachers, however most are content with praising God, and have not fear, but more so a reverance, sentimental and romantic notions of their idea of love for this God.
Gurbani seems to make great mention of fear, or words that we have translated as fear. However, I am uncertain as to whether these are the most appropriate translation in every sense. And that where there is a translation as fear, one should delve in further and look to the context in which things are written, in order to gain a greater appreciation of its aesthetic value.
However, to accept fear is a most ungracious thing. A God that induces fear, is a God that should be rejected and not at all patronised. Any action out of fear leads to horrendous consequences. All people that appear to follow and submit to the ostensible so called 'will of God' out of fear of God act most unkindly to others, their actions having been apparently sanctioned by God - killing others in the name of God, repradation and pillaging.
In the human there should be no place for fear. If humans were not always so fearful, they may just lead their lives with greater vitality, rather than the daily torment of sorrow and misery that it has become.
Charanjit
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Page 34, Line 17
ਭੈ ਭਾਇ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਵੇਖੈ ਸਦਾ ਹਦੂਰਿ ॥
भै भाइ भगति करहि दिनु राती हरि जीउ वेखै सदा हदूरि ॥
Bẖai bẖā▫e bẖagaṯ karahi ḏin rāṯī har jī▫o vekẖai saḏā haḏūr.
One who fears, loves, and is devoted to the Dear Lord day and night, sees Him always close at hand.
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
ਭੈ ਭਾਇ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਵੇਖੈ ਸਦਾ ਹਦੂਰਿ ॥
भै भाइ भगति करहि दिनु राती हरि जीउ वेखै सदा हदूरि ॥
Bẖai bẖā▫e bẖagaṯ karahi ḏin rāṯī har jī▫o vekẖai saḏā haḏūr.
One who fears, loves, and is devoted to the Dear Lord day and night, sees Him always close at hand.
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
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