- Jan 31, 2011
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Do You Ever Feel Completely Disconnected?
- Thread starter RD1
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Of course it was, acceptance of hukam is loving Him in everything and everyone, no matter what happens, we keep our heads on the ground and never lift them up. We are slaves at the feet of creation- He is all so why wouldn't a Gurmukh remain humble.
Everyone's at their own stage of learning. The Gurmukh understands and discovers that pain is pleasure. There are people who are heavily involved in Maya practice who also discover this. People are able to discover unconditional love for another human being, they have discovered the fundamental Truth of Gurbani but for a human.
This khel is a game to discover Truth, no matter how involved someone is in Maya, theyre always learning something. God teaches as He wills for people to learn. Cold weather causes one to go within, humans go to the gym and take care of their bodies, a mother forgives their child and a child humbly obeys their mother.
A friend of mine once said, that his relative was heavily blessed just by being a good, strong willed soul.
No Bhagat should be arrogant because the prerequisite of being a Bhagat is that you accept yourself as His Slave- and in the view of Him being One, a slave at the feet of the entire creation.
I'm with you on everything except the use of 'him, his and slave' it feels slightly abrahamic and problematic for me. Food for thought though!
Lets explore....
I agree, but what does one do with this gift.....
Nice post.
In what ways can we people learn to develop unconditional love for others?
- Jan 31, 2011
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I have come to the conclusion that it is not the perfect personality that evades people, as personality is dependent on circumstances, a good well balanced personality comes from a well balanced life, and a well balanced outlook to life, instead of asking 'who shall I be today or tomorrow', surely a better question is what circumstances can I bring forth so that I can be who I wish to be. Then one can move on to what makes one happy, what constitutes a pleasurable spending of time, be it with family, friends, a film, or whatever.
Knowing the truth, one is free.
Good morning Gang, [06:47 UK].
Let us take page 378 SGGSJ॥ ਭਈ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹੁਰੀਆ ॥ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੀ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥ ਅਵਰਿ ਕਾਜ ਤੇਰੈ ਕਿਤੈ ਨ ਕਾਮ ॥ ਮਿਲੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਭਜੁ ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮ ॥੧॥ ਸਰੰਜਾਮਿ ਲਾਗੁ ਭਵਜਲ ਤਰਨ ਕੈ ॥ ਜਨਮੁ ਬ੍ਰਿਥਾ ਜਾਤ ਰੰਗਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਨ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥ ਸੇਵਾ ਸਾਧ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇਆ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਮ ਨੀਚ ਕਰੰਮਾ ॥ ਸਰਣਿ ਪਰੇ ਕੀ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਸਰਮਾ ॥੨॥੨੯॥ [for relevance sake, I shall elobrate on the bold part of the shabad].
Transliteration
ਭਈ - brother or in the wider sense of the word, jo public
ਪਰਾਪਤਿ - received or a better word to what I want to say is, gift [thx H]
ਮਾਨੁਖ - human
ਦੇਹੁਰੀਆ - two syllables [1] ਦੇ, meaning, give and [2] ਹੁਰੀਆ, meaning, God
ਗੋਬਿੰਦ - one of many names for God
ਮਿਲਣ - meet
ਕੀ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਰੀਆ - this time around, or this birth
If you put that together, it should read something like this; 'brother, we received this human form from God as a vehicle for meeting with God.....'
Taken literally on theoretical reasoning it means there is a defined purpose for a Sikh and that is, "meeting with God" !
But why meeting with God is deemed a necessity rather than a choice and how does one meet up with God ?
Why
Because if the human doesn't meet its other half [spiritual, God] in this life, then at death it won't know where to go and will again return to the physical world.
Sikh ideology seek to address the spiritual supremacy [gurmukh] of the soul over the intellectual indulgence of the human mind [manmukh].
From an ideological perspective, human birth is a gift to meet with God for otherwise the cycle of 84 is never ending and the soul is forever imprisoned; it never gets to redeem her self and go to her true home, sachkhand. This theory arises because sizeable population in particular [Sikh] and human condition in general [jo public] were dissatisfied either with their lives or the world in which they lived. If a person is content with his/her lot and with the structure in which the world finds itself, he/she will not in general seek to change it, for what would be the point of trying to do so ? And, just as the theory of relativity has given us nuclear energy [produces electricity] and quantum mechanics, microelectronics [microwave] so too has Nanak's religious choreography provided humankind a safe passage for the salvation of the soul.
How
Nanak's theoretical reasoning is underpinned by practical steps [kr, vs, and nam jap] to ensure that the existential vacuum is filled and the "will" to meaning is given, for otherwise human life is no different from that of a dog - mere existence !
So going back to your original question about disconnecting, I'd say you disconnect from the human you, insofar, meaning n purpose and connect to the spiritual you because that is what Guru maharaja is saying - if you're a Sikh. All else will begin to organise itself around it beautifully [evolution, the perfect designer] and results will be beyond calculations. Intellectual summits could be reached through dialectical reasoning but meeting with God can only be had through "nam simran".
This is just the tip of Nanak's ideology, love n live on a day-to-day will pave way for spiritual excursions. Discussions could be had until the cows come home but the true Sikh accepts Guru's shabad and acts accordingly.
Have a good Sunday, I will !
Take care -
...yeah, let's just do that:
Let us take page 378 SGGSJ॥ ਭਈ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹੁਰੀਆ ॥ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੀ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥ ਅਵਰਿ ਕਾਜ ਤੇਰੈ ਕਿਤੈ ਨ ਕਾਮ ॥ ਮਿਲੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਭਜੁ ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮ ॥੧॥ ਸਰੰਜਾਮਿ ਲਾਗੁ ਭਵਜਲ ਤਰਨ ਕੈ ॥ ਜਨਮੁ ਬ੍ਰਿਥਾ ਜਾਤ ਰੰਗਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਨ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥ ਸੇਵਾ ਸਾਧ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇਆ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਮ ਨੀਚ ਕਰੰਮਾ ॥ ਸਰਣਿ ਪਰੇ ਕੀ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਸਰਮਾ ॥੨॥੨੯॥ [for relevance sake, I shall elobrate on the bold part of the shabad].
Transliteration
ਭਈ - brother or in the wider sense of the word, jo public
ਪਰਾਪਤਿ - received or a better word to what I want to say is, gift [thx H]
ਮਾਨੁਖ - human
ਦੇਹੁਰੀਆ - two syllables [1] ਦੇ, meaning, give and [2] ਹੁਰੀਆ, meaning, God
ਗੋਬਿੰਦ - one of many names for God
ਮਿਲਣ - meet
ਕੀ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਰੀਆ - this time around, or this birth
If you put that together, it should read something like this; 'brother, we received this human form from God as a vehicle for meeting with God.....'
Taken literally on theoretical reasoning it means there is a defined purpose for a Sikh and that is, "meeting with God" !
But why meeting with God is deemed a necessity rather than a choice and how does one meet up with God ?
Why
Because if the human doesn't meet its other half [spiritual, God] in this life, then at death it won't know where to go and will again return to the physical world.
Sikh ideology seek to address the spiritual supremacy [gurmukh] of the soul over the intellectual indulgence of the human mind [manmukh].
From an ideological perspective, human birth is a gift to meet with God for otherwise the cycle of 84 is never ending and the soul is forever imprisoned; it never gets to redeem her self and go to her true home, sachkhand. This theory arises because sizeable population in particular [Sikh] and human condition in general [jo public] were dissatisfied either with their lives or the world in which they lived. If a person is content with his/her lot and with the structure in which the world finds itself, he/she will not in general seek to change it, for what would be the point of trying to do so ? And, just as the theory of relativity has given us nuclear energy [produces electricity] and quantum mechanics, microelectronics [microwave] so too has Nanak's religious choreography provided humankind a safe passage for the salvation of the soul.
How
Nanak's theoretical reasoning is underpinned by practical steps [kr, vs, and nam jap] to ensure that the existential vacuum is filled and the "will" to meaning is given, for otherwise human life is no different from that of a dog - mere existence !
So going back to your original question about disconnecting, I'd say you disconnect from the human you, insofar, meaning n purpose and connect to the spiritual you because that is what Guru maharaja is saying - if you're a Sikh. All else will begin to organise itself around it beautifully [evolution, the perfect designer] and results will be beyond calculations. Intellectual summits could be reached through dialectical reasoning but meeting with God can only be had through "nam simran".
This is just the tip of Nanak's ideology, love n live on a day-to-day will pave way for spiritual excursions. Discussions could be had until the cows come home but the true Sikh accepts Guru's shabad and acts accordingly.
Have a good Sunday, I will !
Take care -
I really like your approach to your proposition.. However, as a group of individuals on a forum (one into which I am relatively new too, welcomed, encouraged, , inhibited) I sometimes we are lazy in our articulations. For instance, I struggle with the use of the God rather than 'god'. I struggle when I read a sentence or phrase that feels dogmatic or is expressed in a way that suggests the writer has experienced a epiphany that enlightens them to a truth unrevealed to others. I'm guilty of it myself I am sure,when I read back some of my posts I wince!
I can't think of a example in bani when guru shahibs use a phraseology that suggests they have or have a exclusive experience or knowledge over others. Rather they illuminate paradoxes where the truth becomes self evident, to the listener, reader, seekers. As a individual I accept 1 onkaar, I think mool mantar is the most succinct expression of the nature and truth of reality. I believe that I accept it, but am I enlightened? Nope, do I believe I a better person than a atheist, or brahmin, muslim? No. Is a khalsa who has taken amrit more enlightened or a 'better sikh' than me? Not necessarily . Can I read bani? No. Is someone who reads bani, or can read larivaar, necessarily closer to the truth ,?
Guru nanak dev ji wrote mool mantar which sits outside of or may be seen as a precursor to japji sahib.. Isn't it interesting that mool mantar is not signed off or 'self attributed' rather is the only expression in that is expressed as a universal self evident truth?
Thank you Sukh Singh Ji & a very good morning !
I quite enjoyed reading your post #28 and if I may by way of a declaration say as follows: that, where philosophy seeks "truth" [satnam] by reason and argument; both religion and mysticism do so by intuition n revelation. Sikhism therefore, is classified as a religion because "satnam" was revealed to Baba Nanak as a religious experience [Sultanpur Lodhi]. In addition, the mystical expositions [Anand Sahib] enshrined in SGGSJ further supports and corroborates the view that Sikh is a religion. That as a result, by convention makes Sikh a world religion.
The moral of it is, if Nanak's satnam was readily and easily accessible to everyone how come its neglected by everyone ? But because it aren't and it is so seldom discovered makes it noble a prize for the deserving few [orphans]. And, as all noble things are as difficult as they are rare the few that do claim to "experience" them should be hailed not wailed.
I quite enjoyed reading your post #28 and if I may by way of a declaration say as follows: that, where philosophy seeks "truth" [satnam] by reason and argument; both religion and mysticism do so by intuition n revelation. Sikhism therefore, is classified as a religion because "satnam" was revealed to Baba Nanak as a religious experience [Sultanpur Lodhi]. In addition, the mystical expositions [Anand Sahib] enshrined in SGGSJ further supports and corroborates the view that Sikh is a religion. That as a result, by convention makes Sikh a world religion.
..I'm a Gursikh, nothing in SGGSJ is a proposition but gospel [make room for Abrahamic language or else, I can converse in Punjabi if you like] for me.
..pass !
..I don't think that should pause a problem. The controversy over earth being flat or spherical hasn't gone away, but those who choose to believe it flat layout good gardens as a result. The word God encapsulates all that is otherwise inexpressible, I guess. Take "air" for example, it is a compound of oxygen, nitrogen n carbon dioxide, we call it air. Similarly, is God, within which we find ourselves.
..have an open mind, make use of all human knowledge as a vehicle transporting the soul to her final home.
..give the writer the benefit of the doubt on account theory of probability !
..come on Sukh, wake n smell costa coffee ! Take world population of 7 billion say, how many are Sikh, how many on SPN, how many actively engage in chin-wag on daily basis and how many in particular are reading this thread ? Not even a fraction of a fraction ! Those that do [the orphans] are far n few in between because "someone" [God] or "something" [truth] has grounded them so as to reveal. For look, they've abandoned wilfully the ordinary surroundings of life which otherwise are esteemed by jo public to be the highest good, namely, fame, fortune and sensual pleasures.
The moral of it is, if Nanak's satnam was readily and easily accessible to everyone how come its neglected by everyone ? But because it aren't and it is so seldom discovered makes it noble a prize for the deserving few [orphans]. And, as all noble things are as difficult as they are rare the few that do claim to "experience" them should be hailed not wailed.
..don't be because the door that squeaks the loudest gets oiled before others !
.....try this, "..paryian shabad gavan ayieen'ah" [SGGSJ, 917, 1st pauri of Anand Sahib Ji].
..you mean manmukh, and guru ji is saying become gurmukh; you see there lies facts n issues, remedy is "nam daan". There are those that talk Sikhi and there are those that practice Sikhi, which one is you ?
..as I said above, it really is about believing ! Those that believe the earth to be flat plan their garden using mathematics, thus, shape it beautifully; case in point being, carry on believing in 1 onkar and see if your life pans out as beautiful as another's garden.
..Nanak was an instrument through which God revealed its ontological existence. The bani is transcripted by the banikars as the "form" God of an ineffable being.
- Apr 8, 2012
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ਪਰੀਆ ਸਬਦ ਗਾਵਨ ਆਈਆ
it means came to sing with love (paria)
it means came to sing with love (paria)
This your interpretation and there
Your proposition. Unless one has a absolute 100% universally accepted translation, interpretation of bani. It is impossible to speak definitely. Rather khoj through exegesis is necessary. The word 'gurmukh' is also not exclusive to sikhi.
What are the requirements or characteristics of a 'gurmukh'. Must one be khalsa/amritdari or?
What are the requirements or characteristics of a 'gurmukh'. Must one be khalsa/amritdari or?
..no, it was a suggestion on my part for you to reflect on page 917, SGGSJ, verse 1 and tell me what Guru Amardas Ji is saying. Cross - reference that with your original assumption, 'I can't think of a example in bani when guru shahibs use a phraseology that suggests they have or have a exclusive experience or knowledge over others'.
..pls reread what I've said of propositions, post #31. Moreover, try and get a good translation of the following shabad, ॥ ਬਾਵਨ ਅਛਰ ਲੋਕ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਸਭੁ ਕਛੁ ਇਨ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ॥ ਏ ਅਖਰ ਖਿਰਿ ਜਾਹਿਗੇ ਓਇ ਅਖਰ ਇਨ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੧॥ SGGSJI, 340.
In short, what Bhagat Kabir is saying, no letters of alphabet can capture the unknown, the timeless, formless and ineffable Ekonkar.
If that'd be correct, how can letters that make up words, words that make sentences and sentences that are representations of propositions, can be had ?
..you don't talk Sikhi, you walk Sikhi [SGGSJ, 1412]. Besides, rational deliberations of the unknown, conclusions and intermediate steps of the unknown, how can the resulting consistency ever by any manner of means become knowledge ?
..I agree ! check out the finer distinction betwixt khoj n vichar. Gurbani points towards the latter, not to say, the former is obsolete - but a theoretical readjustment !
..who said it was ?
..to have "faith" in "guru" [SGGSJ] and to surrender to His Will !
..no !
Slave in this case just means Truth practitioner. It's one who respects the gyan of Gurbani enough to apply it to their life. Truth Is the master, you are Truth and I'm Truth, it's just being True to yourself.
With regards to a few of your other points- the perfection of the heart Is the aim of Gurbani. Nirboah and Nirvair keeps a Truth practitioner pure. Mool mantar is all thats needed- the entire gurbani is an extention of Mool Mantar.
The discoveries are endless but He is still One- just Nothing.
Nirboah and Nirvair- being all loving, for all is Him and being fearless in remembrance of the same. Thanks I'm a little busy but will contemplate the example you have provided. However my response ie. Proposition was to your assertion "guru ji is saying".
I think this phrase from the Christian Bible sums up what we are trying to say; it also dovetails beautifully with the miri-piri concept. "Be in the world, but not of the world." I have been a small-time social activist for over 50 years, and this is one lesson a very wise woman taught me about how to avoid burn-out when I was just starting out.
"If you want to last at this, you need to learn how to face everything, see everything, care about everything, without taking it into yourself. Like water off a duck's back." In other words, remain internally disconnected with the world of maya. Some people think me cold because of the lack of emotion I show over horrendous things. No. I'm not cold. I am surviving to fight again tomorrow.
"If you want to last at this, you need to learn how to face everything, see everything, care about everything, without taking it into yourself. Like water off a duck's back." In other words, remain internally disconnected with the world of maya. Some people think me cold because of the lack of emotion I show over horrendous things. No. I'm not cold. I am surviving to fight again tomorrow.
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