Does Akaal Forgive?

[ActsOfGod]

Okay, point taken. I will refrain from using this term in future.

How about I just say, "the Sat". Does the Sat Forgive?

If this is not acceptable either, may the sangat kindly instruct me as to what the preferred term is for me to use to refer to That which is described by the Mool Mantar.

Thanks

The Sikh term is 'Akaal Purakh'

 

[Ishna]

The Sikh term is 'Akaal Purakh'

Akaal Moorat?

 

[Ishna]

So I was chatting with some Sikh friends online today, and asked them about this.

They said that they wouldn't use "Sahib" to describe "Akaal", because "sahib" isn't quite a strong enough word to go with Akaal. Purakh is, but not Sahib. Even though in Gurbani, "Sahib" is used to refer to "God", that is specific to the Gurbani. Most people reading "Akaal Sahib" would see the "Sahib" as more like a Punjabi word, and it doesn't really make sense.

So now that someone has taken the time to thoroughly explain it to me, I understand.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

So I was chatting with some Sikh friends online today, and asked them about this.

They said that they wouldn't use "Sahib" to describe "Akaal", because "sahib" isn't quite a strong enough word to go with Akaal. Purakh is, but not Sahib. Even though in Gurbani, "Sahib" is used to refer to "God", that is specific to the Gurbani. Most people reading "Akaal Sahib" would see the "Sahib" as more like a Punjabi word, and it doesn't really make sense.

So now that someone has taken the time to thoroughly explain it to me, I understand.

Admin Kaur ji,

Guru Fateh.

Well,whoever told you the above is incorrect. We call our Gurus, Guru Sahibs, when they did not even call themselves Gurus. In Jap we recite daily, Page 2 :

ਸਾਚਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਾਚੁ ਨਾਇ ਭਾਖਿਆ ਭਾਉ ਅਪਾਰੁ ॥

Sācẖā sāhib sācẖ nā▫e bẖākẖi▫ā bẖā▫o apār.

True is the Master, True is His Name-speak it with infinite love.

One can find many references like the above in the SGGS.

So describing the indescribable as Akaal Sahib is your personal quest and I think it is wonderful.

If someone has objections to it, please seek the help of SGGS, our only Guru and educate us through your Gurmat wisdom. After all we are all Sikhs, students,learners.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Harry Haller]

I would not worry about sis, I think the term Akaal Sahib suits more than 'god', as always it is those that would look not at the content, but at the dressing that have issues.

 

[swarn bains]

word sussa ਸ has been changed to shasha same way gurudwara has been changed to gurdwara sahib, akaal purkh changed to akal sahib. it is done by sikhs who migrated to west and are not very good in punjabi. theyhave changed sabad to shabad. in sggs there is no word as shabad and many more places ਸ ਨੂੰ ਸ਼ ਬਣਾਉਣ ਦਾ ਕਾਰਨ shortage of language knowledge or to emphases their importance
most of western sikh do not even know punjabi but internet has brought them in front of others who may know punjabi well and know sggs well but they are not good on internet. most of them do ot know how to type they do not have cell phones as well . so sikh society is taking a new turn. better or worse time will tell. watch it

 

[Harry Haller]

word sussa ਸ has been changed to shasha same way gurudwara has been changed to gurdwara sahib, akaal purkh changed to akal sahib. it is done by sikhs who migrated to west and are not very good in punjabi. theyhave changed sabad to shabad. in sggs there is no word as shabad and many more places ਸ ਨੂੰ ਸ਼ ਬਣਾਉਣ ਦਾ ਕਾਰਨ shortage of language knowledge or to emphases their importance
most of western sikh do not even know punjabi but internet has brought them in front of others who may know punjabi well and know sggs well but they are not good on internet. most of them do ot know how to type they do not have cell phones as well . so sikh society is taking a new turn. better or worse time will tell. watch it

I would not say Sikh society has excelled itself by keeping things inward, if anything, Sikh society is defined by the Punjab and Punjab society, so let us indeed see how a universal attitude affects our definition of Sikhs, better or worse, time will indeed tell, .

 

[Astroboy]

Are we getting too technical here on meanings of words. IMHO Does Akaal Forgive? The question is too wide and not specific enough.

On the other hand, I was attending Asa Di Waar with the Gurdwara Priest when he kept emphasising on one tuk,"Kiss Nu Kahiye Nanaka, Sabh kich Apey aap." This the is in the 24th Salok of the bani.
It has stuck with me ever since.

 

[Harry Haller]

Are we getting too technical here on meanings of words.

yes, I think we are, maybe its time we started instead of trusting social and political meanings

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Are we getting too technical here on meanings of words. IMHO Does Akaal Forgive? The question is too wide and not specific enough.

On the other hand, I was attending Asa Di Waar with the Gurdwara Priest when he kept emphasising on one tuk,"Kiss Nu Kahiye Nanaka, Sabh kich Apey aap." This the is in the 24th Salok of the bani.
It has stuck with me ever since.

Guru Fateh Namjap ji,

Nice to see you after a long time. Welcome back because we need your wisdom,your quest and your love to understand Gurbani here in the forum. And yes, the omnipresence of The Source is in all that there is.

This is off subject.

I wanted to start a private conversation among some members including yourself on the following subject but some how could not, hence I am doing it here.

A few years ago, you started a group regarding Bhagat Bani, in this case Bhagat Kabir and many of us participated in it. It was a great interaction. We all learned a lot from it.

Sadly, I could not find it on SPN. Would you be kind enough to find that out?

Thanks.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Tejwant Singh]

word sussa ਸ has been changed to shasha same way gurudwara has been changed to gurdwara sahib, akaal purkh changed to akal sahib. it is done by sikhs who migrated to west and are not very good in punjabi. theyhave changed sabad to shabad. in sggs there is no word as shabad and many more places ਸ ਨੂੰ ਸ਼ ਬਣਾਉਣ ਦਾ ਕਾਰਨ shortage of language knowledge or to emphases their importance
most of western sikh do not even know punjabi but internet has brought them in front of others who may know punjabi well and know sggs well but they are not good on internet. most of them do ot know how to type they do not have cell phones as well . so sikh society is taking a new turn. better or worse time will tell. watch it

Swan Bains ji,

Guru Fateh

Would you be kind enough to show where "word sussa ਸ has been changed to shasha"? And also please elaborate what you mean so we can learn from your wide experience and love for Gurbani

How can one change the name of the nameless? Gurbani is filled with words and yes, as admitted by our Gurus, no words are enough to describe Ik Ong Kaar.

It is difficult to translate Punjabi words into English because of some sounds that we, who are from the Indic languages' background enunciate differently.

The best example is V and W. We(Ve) invert them. This is the reason we say Waheguru rather than Vaheguru and the latter is correct because the letter in Gurmukhi is ਵ. However, we say Ouvictory rather than V(ਵ) Victory. Here we are pronouncing the word with W. Btw, the Germans do the same thing.

Lastly for the same reason, my name is written in English as Tejwant Singh rather than Tejvant Singh the way we pronounce and write in Gurmukhi with V(ਵ).

Your input is very useful in this forum and I personally thank you for that.

Tejw(v)ant Singh

 

[Ambarsaria]

Okay, point taken. I will refrain from using this term in future.

How about I just say, "the Sat". Does the Sat Forgive?

If this is not acceptable either, may the sangat kindly instruct me as to what the preferred term is for me to use to refer to That which is described by the Mool Mantar.

Thanks

In my humble opinion this is very wrong approach. Mool Mantar by itself is not deserving of any descriptive name as though it is a description of the creator in SGGSJ.

Mool Mantar is simply an example of a very small subset of infinite attributes of the creator. I would never ask for such or propose any. It will be a great disservice to the message in SGGSJ, at least in my way of thinking.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Ishna]

In my humble opinion this is very wrong approach. Mool Mantar by itself is not deserving of any descriptive name as though it is a description of the creator in SGGSJ.

Mool Mantar is simply an example of a very small subset of infinite attributes of the creator. I would never ask for such or propose any. It will be a great disservice to the message in SGGSJ, at least in my way of thinking.

Sat Sri Akal.

Is "the creator" just as inappropriate as saying "the Sat" with reference to "the thing that is sung about in the Gurbani"? Actually, it's even less appropriate IMHO, because it is even more prescriptive than "the Sat".

*throws hands in the air*

I give up! In future, I will just say *mumble* in place of any noun to refer to *mumble*.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Is "the creator" just as inappropriate as saying "the Sat" with reference to "the thing that is sung about in the Gurbani"? Actually, it's even less appropriate IMHO, because it is even more prescriptive than "the Sat".

*throws hands in the air*

I give up! In future, I will just say *mumble* in place of any noun to refer to *mumble*.

Admin Kaur ji "sat" or eternal "truth" that is essence of all indeed is a better way to understand or state. Is it sexy enough for common day usage! I do not know! Is there a need to put a name? I do not know! Can one give any name as a way to remember, of course you can. The issue is when you or I share the name with others where others may not have the same understanding why such a name in the first place. So any name you give at a personal level is as good as any other as long as it is linked to the guidance, the essence of what is and how is. SGGSJ helps us understand what is and how is!

Waheguru/Vaheguru is as good too. Which without trying to define simply states "I am in awe the Gur/Guru/creator" which indeed should be a state of mind for oneself that may help in understanding and continuously discovering more and understanding more.

Sat Sri Akal

 

[Ishna]

There is nothing I can say.

 

[swarn bains]

ਸਬਦ ਨੂੰ ਸ਼ਬਦ, ਸੁਕਰ ਸ਼ੁਕਰ, ਸਾਹ ਸ਼ਾਹ ਹੋਰ ਬਹੁਤ ਹਨ.
Please do not use word akaal sahib, make ti Akaal purakh or God if you are English type only

 

[Ishna]

LOL, we are familiar with the trouble that saying "God" will get us in, right?

Safer if we all talk about meat and kesh.

Meanwhile, someone better do something about all these pesky "Sahib" references in the Gurbani.

 

[swarn bains]

nice to be mad

 

[Sherdil]

Okay, point taken. I will refrain from using this term in future.

How about I just say, "the Sat". Does the Sat Forgive?

If this is not acceptable either, may the sangat kindly instruct me as to what the preferred term is for me to use to refer to That which is described by the Mool Mantar.

Thanks

Akaal Sahib isn't technically wrong, but it sounds a bit odd personally. It's akin to saying "Mr. God". I thought you were being playful when I originally read the title of the thread.

Simply Akaal should suffice. However, it is your perogative if you want to continue using the term. It's all semantics, but if you are engaged in a discussion with someone, it's probably best to use terminology that is familiar.

When in doubt stick with Ik Onkar.

Also, don't say "the Sat". Simply "Sat". It is an all encompassing term. Does existence forgive? The answer is reflected by the peculiarity of the question.

 

[Harry Haller]

I would be interested to know by which authority one has the right to say which is the right or wrong way to address god?

The SGGS is full of different names for god, it also references many many gods from Hindu mythology that some use as a reference to god, that does not seem to be a problem, but I wonder why the use of Akaal Sahib has brought so many reactions, once again, the content, even of this thread, which is supposed to be about forgiveness, is deemed less important than the label.

Someone, with a lot of love, has deemed Akaal Sahib a term of reference for god, instead of admiring and sharing in this love, we queue up to pick holes in it. Is it insecurity? do we fear a white persons understanding of Sikhism will be better than our own home grown understanding? Maybe we know in our hearts that our own understanding, that we learned on the knees of our parents, does not quite add up, we are told Sikhi is without rituals, without superstitions, without sexism, racism, casteism, without pride, ego, yet we look around us, and see Sikhi is actually full of such, and actually getting worse, so, I feel we should welcome all input from everyone, and actually see that a point of view devoid of the Punjabi culture has as much merit, if not more than one with.

 

[Sherdil]

It's all semantics, like I said. You can refer to the One as "Jell-O Pudding Sahib" if it suits your fancy, but be prepared to have people look at you as if you have two heads.

I wasn't initially inclined to nitpick at the issue, nor is that my intention now. However seeing that the discussion has veered in this direction, and it has caused Admin Kaur to ask for guidance on the matter, I felt compelled to offer assistance.

Unfortunately, she has also changed the title of the thread. I hope she hasn't taken the criticism by various members to heart, although it should have been more constructive in my opinion.