Earrings Allowed?

[Ishna]

If one wants to follow the rules just for the sake of following the rules because that's what the rules say, that's fine, but it may not assist ones growth towards Divine realisation, which appears to be the purpose of ones precious human life.

The SRM is there to help us along the path. It isn't THE path, there is much more behind it than just the rules.

One needs to ask why pierced ears are forbidden. Understand the real reasons why, and the question of wearing clip-on or magnetic earrings becomes irrelevant.

 

[aristotle]

Yeah, no code-of-conduct in Sikhism is without reasons, or just for the sake of following; there's always a deeper meaning attached to it. But, what I asked was that, in some cases, there may be an adjustment problem with other members of the society, for example, in an office or a peer group. In that case, a thing as small as earrings may be the cause of mental tension for a Sikh. In that case, can the non piercing earrings be worn, without any possible confrontation with the tenets of Sikhism, because non piercing jewellery is not specifically prohibited in Sikhism???????

 

[Ishna]

Personally, I think to wear them to fit in might not be a very good idea because then we start to compromise other things for the same reason. Start tweazering eyebrows to fit in, men start shaving beard to fit in, no dastaars because they definately don't fit in. False earrings are a small challenge against these other ones.

I could start wearing revealing clothes to fit in with my peer group. I could eat anything presented to me without another thought because that would really help me fit in. Come summertime (winter in Oz ATM) I'll have to shave my legs etc to fit in... You see the slippery slope.

The slope goes the other way too-forsaking all jewelry. But that has already been discussed earlier in the thread.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

The SRM was framed by ordinary Lay men...and today we have a generation of LAW EXPERTS...people who cna naylyse each word to DEATH....what hope do the simple sentences of the SRM have of standing up to such microscopic scrutiny...by English Language experts....people whose First Langaueg si Englsih compared to the siksh who translated the Original Punjabi SRM to "Englsih" as best as they could...people born and bred and raised in the WEST...etc etc...
The SRM of necessity has a BACKGROUND..it WASNT constructed in a STERILE ENVIRONMENT....it was constructed by Punjabi Sikhs... mostly of Jatt background.. Sons of Sardars...landed families..sikh/punjabi/punjabiat culture influences...sikh history etc etc etc...so MUCH BAGGAGE....of which we have not an iota or slightest inkling at all...
IF the SRM were framed by those who framed the American Declaration of Rights...it would be different..IF the SIKHS who framed the SRM were asked to frame the Amercian declaration fo Rights..would it be the Exact SAME Document ?? Could the SRM framers write the exact Charter that set up the British democratic institutions..the MAGNA CARTA ?? Could the writers of the Magna carta write the same SRM we have before us today..??
THESE are the LIMITATIONS we often dont see...I am wearing the "spectacles" coloured by a WESTERN CAMBRIDGE EDUCATION SYSTEM....how can I see the same thing a sikh boy from a rural village who went through the Khalsa School education system ??? OR see eye to eye a SIKH who studied in KENYA...UGANDA...IRELAND ?? IRAN ?? ISRAELI EDUCATION SYSTEM ?? Can the POPE see exactly what the jathedar Akal takhat sees ?? IF tomorrow the POPE and JAT were to exchange posts..would they succeed in their new positions ?? Would the JAT be a BETTER or worse POPE ??

The SRM has different levels..the superficial..the secondary...the "unseen but MEANT" level...the "between the lines"...the "understood" level..the Common sense level..the ridiculous level...the DIRTY WATER ENTERS a FILTER..goes through the various different levels....stones..co{censored} sand..fine sand..finer snad..activated carbon..etc etc before it emerges CLEAN and CLEAR....same way to approach the SRM..our MIND must be tuned to enter....and EMERGE at the end clear and clean...fully in TUNE with what the SRM formulators intended..what the GURU intends..the ACTIVATED CARBON that removes all DOUBTS/DUALITY/ODOURS fo the MIND..is LOVE for teh GURU....its been said...NO MATTER HOW long we WALK on our FEET..we will NEVER finish the journey...NOT UNTIL we give up on FEET..and Begin walking ON OUR HEAD !!! MATHA TEK !!! and surrender to GURU.period.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Heres just one example about what i am trying to put across in my post jsut above this one.
IN Punjabi we have a Saying....Na Tinnah vich ate Na teraan vich - ( Not in 3 nor in 13 ) which stands for..Neither HERE nor THERE....where its being sued to descibe a Fence Sitter type who is neither "here" nor "there".

Now where di the 3 and 13 come from...?? 3 is for "HERE"....and 13 is for "THERE"....BUT how ??

Well the 13 comes from the Bible New testament. Jesus ahd 13 Disciples and IN the Final moments just before His Arrest, the Govt people asked Jesus..How Many Disciples do you have ? 13 He replied. OK in that case we will have to KILL the 13 Firts before we kill you. ON hearing this..ALL 13 DENIED JESUS and ran away. ( I am not vouching for the 100% truth or otherwise of this....its just a saying..based on popular folk wisdom...anyoen familiar with the New Testament may know better than me)

The 3 comes from Guru Teg bahadur Jis Final moments. Guur Teg bahadur Ji had 3 Disciples - SIKHS with him and the Govt kazi declared..we will KILL these 3 First. The kazi pointed to Bhai MATI DASS..OK step Forward..you are First. You will be sawn alive.I have only one request said Bhai mati dass Ji...TURN MY FACE TOWARDS MY GURU when SAWING ME ASUNDER. The saw was placed on his head and he was sawed asunder...facing Guru Ji until he breathed his last. OK youa re next the Kazi said to Bhai Dyala...you will be BOILED ALIVE. Thats OK..but please place the pot so I cna FACE my GURU while I die said Bhai Dyala. The saem thing happened to Bhai SATI DASS - younger brother of Bhai mati dass the one sawed alive earlier. Bhai sati dass Ji also FACED His GURU while he was wrapped in Cotton, soaked in oil and set ALIGHT to be burned alive.

SO There you are..TO BE Counted among the "3" means YOU are COUNTED and willing to STAND for your CONVICTION...You are HERE. To be among the "13" means one who ahs RUN AWAY....abdicated his responsibility....he is not "Here or THERE"....he is NO WHERE.

This si the type fo Cultural social linguistic etc etc types of EXPOSURE one ahs to have on BOTH languages one wishes to translate between !! When Manmohan Singh began the task of translating the SGGS..he was at this task for 18 hours a DAY for 25 years !!! He suffered a Heart ttack in between. What I mean to say is that manmohan Singh was translating a "Holy/religious text......so he laboured under the impression that the ENGLISH VOCABULARY he should use would ahev to be "religiously coloured"...and he ahd the Bible before him as an example...thats why just 50 years ago..manmohan singh laboured to use "obviously religious words like "THOU THEE THINE..when the Ordinary English speaker had been uisng YOU, YOURS, Your, etc etc for more than 500 years at least...Take a look at Manmohan Singh Ji's 8 Volume SGGS translation and see the Thous and Thees all over !! Its like a Christian translating the Bible into Punjabi using vocabulary of SGGS to translate Biblical stories..??? even though SGGS uses only 500 yaers ago langauge...while the Bible uses English much older than that...:happysingh::happysingh:

 

[aristotle]

That's right. What we mean by a 'translation' is a text which the common man can easily understand. The same would become almost irrelevant if the reader has to laboriously take the help of a dictionary to understand the translation. The KJV version of bible which uses archaic words like 'ere','thou','thine' etc. gave way to more 'literal' translations like the NKJV, ESV etc. The Quran translations like that by Maulawi Sher Ali (which I have read) present the message of scripture in a very easy and contemporary tone. I'm still waiting for a 'literal' English 'translation' of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
I may be wrong, but the thing I have noticed is that, the western scriptures are often translated by a 'team' of scholars(running into a large number, even morethan 50 in some cases, and that too from almost all races and ethnicities) comprising priests, language experts, psychologists etc. rather than a single person, but in our case it is frequently only a single or at the most two and not a team which carry the process of translation. Maybe constituting a team of experts may help to provide a breakthrough in the translation works.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

That's right. What we mean by a 'translation' is a text which the common man can easily understand. The same would become almost irrelevant if the reader has to laboriously take the help of a dictionary to understand the translation. The KJV version of bible which uses archaic words like 'ere','thou','thine' etc. gave way to more 'literal' translations like the NKJV, ESV etc. The Quran translations like that by Maulawi Sher Ali (which I have read) present the message of scripture in a very easy and contemporary tone. I'm still waiting for a 'literal' English 'translation' of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
I may be wrong, but the thing I have noticed is that, the western scriptures are often translated by a 'team' of scholars(running into a large number, even morethan 50 in some cases, and that too from almost all races and ethnicities) comprising priests, language experts, psychologists etc. rather than a single person, but in our case it is frequently only a single or at the most two and not a team which carry the process of translation. Maybe constituting a team of experts may help to provide a breakthrough in the translation works.

THATS WHERE the SIKHS were failed by the SGPC...etc. WE gave the SGPC Control fo vast amounts of GOLUCK..running into BILLIONS over 90 YEARS of CONTROL...absolutley NOTHING of such came out of this... Except one four volum shabarth...sanchees with meanings too short to be of much service..
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1. Manmohan Singh did his 8 volume translation ALL on his own money efort time and health...19 hours a day at it for 25 years with a year or two of sickness due to heart attack in between. I Beleive it was his fervent ARDASS to GURU JI to bless him with just enough time to FINISH the last remaining volueme..and this ardass was HEARD. Manmohan gave ALL RIGHTS to SGPC and SGPC is benefitting form the thousands of copies sold yearly without contributing a single cent...

2. Prof SAHIB SINGH also completed his magnificent SGGS Darpan all on hsi own head...

3. Veer Singh was doing hsi own translationa nd unfortuantely died half way...so his work is half done.

4. GS Talibs translation- all his own effort

5 Prof Hrabans singh doabias work..all his own..

So are a number of otehr works..all based on authors individual efforts.

Govt Universities have been concentrating on DG !!!

IN the olden days we were unfortunate to be waylaid by tyranny/ wars not of our making etc...and when we gained soem breathing space and got control fo the Gurdawras via SGPC/Akali dal..we were still not at peace as the new Independent GOI also took the path of confrontation...and the SGPC Akali dal came to be gobbled up by corruption/rss etc...putting us in a worse situation than even the late 18th century of persecution and terror..now its subtle subverison..sweet poison to kill SIKHI than SIKHS..

 

[jasbirkaleka]

And this Shabad talks of 'piercing' in first line which Guru likes:
http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=3146

I THINK GURU NANAK DEV JI IS REFERRING TO MEDIC ANTS OR FOLLOWERS OF GORAKH NATH, WHO PIERCED THIER EARS AND BEGGED FOR ALMS.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Ishna ji,
So it seems we are always on a slope. Perhaps, we need not travel anywhere, and just be where we are and rest.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Ive considered it, and I'm booking my wife in next week

I have seen Buffalo (Jhotey - male Buffalo) that pull carts in Punjab with noses pierced like,

We need to recognize that SRM creators were all men (I cannot prove that) so they had little first hand experience of what women like/want or do without being bad lol.

Jasbirkaleka and Gyani Jarnail Singh ji has covered this in other posts as to the origin of or possible reason for mention in SRM. The following was not that was flagged in intent as it sure is not evil looking,

The following crowd's associated such practices probably were intended,

By the way guys, this is common knowledge among Indian ladies that "Fiddies" (one's with flat broad nose) wear nose rings to compensate their nose being not as beautiful versus the pointed ones. icecreammunda

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[BhagatSingh]

We need to recognize that SRM creators were all men (I cannot prove that) so they had little first hand experience of what women like/want or do without being bad lol.

Hahaha!

True. Could we also say, they did not have first hand experience of what the people in that crowd like/want to do without being bad?

 

[Ambarsaria]

Hahaha!

True. Could we also say, they did not have first hand experience of what the people in that crowd like/want to do without being bad?

Bhagat Singh ji that is quite possible too. The list indicated some well meaning and learned men.

However, after all there is always a limitation inherent in any such effort based on collective or dominant wisdom. Sometimes dominant or collective wisdom can differ and either can be less than desirable.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Hmm... I think at a closer look any list indicates well meaning and learned men. Why any list then seems desirable or undesirable is beyond me... His command perhaps?

 

[Ambarsaria]

Hmm... I think at a closer look any list indicates well meaning and learned men.

Why any list then seems desirable or undesirable is beyond me

I meant in the context of the outcomes of such gatherings or collection in terms of the best that could have been achieved.

... His command perhaps?

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Yes. What did you think I meant?

 

[Ambarsaria]

Yes. What did you think I meant?

Me no mind reader mundahug, me guess sometimes and me guess right and me guess wrong.

We are going little off-topic me thinks. Let us give others a chance to participate.:sippingcoffeemunda:

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[spnadmin]

I THINK GURU NANAK DEV JI IS REFERRING TO MEDIC ANTS OR FOLLOWERS OF GORAKH NATH, WHO PIERCED THIER EARS AND BEGGED FOR ALMS.

Yes Guru Nanak is referring exactly to that. That point was covered very early in this thread ....by me... and I thank you for restating the point and putting it in CAPS so we don't get lost in extrapolations from then to now.

Yes the thread is going off topic.

 

[Ishna]

Spnadmin ji and Jasbir ji

I think the confusion / overthinking comes thusly:

1. many, many people have their ears pierced, including Sikh women
2. the SRM says "no piercing for wearing ornaments"
3. people thus pierced wonder why
4. they discover it was in relation to yogis/various other groups wearing them as part of their religion
5. the pierced people today think "well my piercings are just for looks / because I like them, they're not for religion, so why can't I keep them / get pierced in the first place?"

It is almost a case of the SRM having said no piercing, end of story.

Just like the DG prayers. That's what the SRM specifies for Sikhs, so accept it until it's changed.

So, to help justify in the mind of Sikhs who think their piercing has nothing to do with any other religion and can't possibly be anti-Sikh in that context, they reach out for other reasons to justify their action. Otherwise it's just blind following because the SRM says so, and I think THAT is more anti-gurmat (following blindly what the leaders say).

So if we can generate some more reasons why we shouldn't have our ears pierced, it gives more reason to follow the rules, gives people more confidence in their antisocial choice to not wear their earrings.

If I take them out now, and my colleagues say "Ishna, why have you taken your earrings out??" the conversation might go something like this:

"Why have you taken your earrings out, they looked good on you!"
"It's against my religion"
"Why?"
"Because I'm not supposed to look like a nath yogi"
"What's a nath yogi?"
And I'm left looking like a fool.

If I can find other reasons, the conversation might go like this:
"Why have you taken your earrings out, they looked good on you!"
"It's against my religion"
"Why?"
"Because they are a distraction to me, reminding me more about how my body looks to other people than how the divine in me looks to other people."

Just an example, probably a poor one.

But you've got to have strong conviction behind your actions, especially when it's against something as apparently benign and societal as dainty feminine ear piercings.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Ishna ji,
I admire your continuous effort to resolve such issues. I am probably not going to help your praiseworthy case with this post.

"Why have you taken your earrings out, they looked good on you!"
"It's against my religion"
"Why?"
"Because I'm not supposed to look like a nath yogi"
"What's a nath yogi?"

I LOLed at that. IMO the second line of reasoning works better.

When you see someone wear earrings, do you really think they look like a nath yogi?

Uh oh... they have turbans...

I think this earring debate is fairly modern. Old paintings of male Sikhs are shown with earrings.
Maharaja Ranjit Singh (young)

Hari Singh Nalwa

Fresco of Guru Ram Das ji getting Gurgaddi (fairly modern fresco, late 1800s I believe, but still) :

This painting is claimed to be a imagined meeting of Guru Gobind Singh ji and Guru Nanak Dev ji. Not sure about this the authenticity of this image but again Guru sahib is depicted with an earring.

Apparently ear-rings are worn by high status men. So not as "as dainty feminine ear piercings."

Source:Guru Gobind Singh meets Guru Nanak Dev | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Perhaps it's because of the onset of British raj that earrings became less of a male thing. High status British men would not have worn them and so...

I don't know. My well wishes to all women (and men) who choose not to wear earrings.

 

[spnadmin]

At some point we have to say to HELL with what other people think and go with our own decision, not for want of orderly direction from external sources (voices on the Internet), but because of deep personal deliberation for want of a better word, of the message of Gurbani. Explain your decision one time. If someone doesn't get it or prefers an argument, just move on.

Yes the SRM says we do not pierce our body. Yes, one can wear earrings without piercing. That of course does not address the matters of ego and "fitting in" with one's cultural norms, does it? This we know from personal experience.

Here is my point. Guru Nanak did not forbid piercing or the wearing of earrings. The SRM forbids piercing, as well as tattoos, and other things, but not jewelry. So where has this discourse been taking us here and on other forums as well? There are lessons about adorning our bodies that come directly from Guru Nanak. There are lessons that come from the SRM (which we understand better if we have the historical context). And then there are teachings that are coming from neither of these sources, but from one another, from our fellow Sikhs, more or less aligned with Guru Nanak, more or less aligned with the SRM, and definitely extensions of how individuals and subgroups within Sikhi interpret Guru Nanak and the SRM. Often I think this is just another version of a cultural skin. Take off the cultural femininity skin and don another one. Discuss it in terms of losing our egos, or ridding ourselves of social "vices," and then the full force of social monitoring takes over. Only this time it is Sikhs monitoring Sikhs and the fundamental message is lost.

This is just my opinion. We should wear our Sikhi like a suit of fine clothes. May it include our kaakkars. May it also include the life of simran, seva and honest work. May it fit well.