Sikh News FINAL RIFT: Ravidassia Shrines Shift Out Guru Granth Sahib Saroops

[kds1980]

Sikhs had never given equal status to Ravdasis anyway. Why ? Because of caste problem.
Although Sikhism does not believe in castes but from past behavior patterns, the 'lower caste' people
have been observed to be lacking in general cleanliness, as a result, many Gurdwaras have had their cups and plates
separated out and labeled unhealthy for general use.

This has been ingrained in upper caste society from time immemorial.
Although this fact is far from the truth today, but the psychological rift has been created in the minds long ago.
So my question is how can this misunderstanding be cleared. We need to get down to the bottom of this matter.
They are not our enemies, they are not very far from Sikhi. The problem mainly lies in our attitude towards them.

Its true that that upper caste sikhs had never given equal status to ravidasi's but it does not justify Ravidasi's distancing themselves from sikhism.

Please tell me one religion where there are no caste/cultural/ethnic conflicts.Despite concept of strong islamic brotherhood Arab muslims consider themself as superior.There are hardly any case of arranged marriage of Arab muslim girl with Indian or **** muslims.Despite all these differences I have yet to hear muslims leaving islam.If any Ravidasi or lower caste sikh leave sikhism just because he was not treated equally then it clearly show that his faith in sikh guru's and guru granth sahib is too weak.

 

[roab1]

ravidasis have had their seperate places of worship since decades. so why did they set up seperate places of worship in which they placed guru granth sahib and now suddenly they need to move guru granth sahib out? they should have complained of discrimination when they went to same gurdwaras that sikhs went to , to look genuine. how do sikhs discriminate against them when ravidasi have their seperate places of worship? is it that sikhs go to ravidasi mandirs and then discriminate against them? when they have their own gurus, their own granth their own mandir, then how can sikhs discriminate agianst them? where does this occurs and since when? Deleted: Please observe forum rule prohibiting sect bashing ... what does ravidasi granth say about equality of all humans, does it bars it or promotes chamaars vis a vis non-chamaars? Deleted: Please observe forum rule prohibiting sect bashing: Narayanjot Kaur

 

[spnadmin]

Value our right to debate. But also respect the facts of history.

When was the Ravidassi sect established? Guru (We call him Sant not Guru) Ravidas founded a spiritual movement in the fourteenth century in India (i.e. 1300's). He was born ([SIZE=+2]1398-1448)[/SIZE] in a downtrodden community known as Chamars, who were considered "untouchable". According to the inhumane practice of caste, the lowest strata were particularly attracted and initiated into the Ravidasi path. These people were recognised and named "Ad-Dharm" meaning the Primal Spiritual Way, and were a unique community, not adhering, collaborating, cohering and attributing to any other community i.e Hindu, Muslims or Christians of that time

In other words, the sect/faith was formed in the 14th Century in a period that pre-dates Guru Nanak (born 1469) and Sikhism. Though the dates of the life and death of Ravidas are disputed, the adherents of the Ravidasi faith were not Sikhs, and did not consider themselves Sikhs. The untouchable levels of society were attracted and initiated into the Ravidasi faith but they were not the only early members nor was the sect founded for the untouchable castes alone.

When did the Ravidasi sect/faith become so closely identified with Sikhs of the Chamar caste? The Ravidasi movement gained an extra impetus in the 1920s in Punjab, due to Sikh members of the Chamar caste rebelling against continued caste oppression aimed at them. This group split from the Sikh community and joined the Ravidasi faith en-masse. Today, former Chamars from the Punjab are the largest visible ethnic group in the Ravidasi community. Punjabi Ravidasis have a number of Gurdeheras in the United Kingdom, especially in the Midlands.

In other words, Sikhism and the Ravidasi sect did not become so closely identified one with the other, until the 20th Century. It happened as a result of large numbers of chamars within the Sikh community in Punjab rebelling against caste oppression, and joining the Ravidasi sect as an act of protest. This suggests that Sikhs joined the Ravidasi movement; not that Ravidasis joined Sikhism.

Ravidasis apparently chose in the earliest chapters of their history to integrate Sri Guru Granth Sabhib into their religious practices, not as Sikhs but as Ravidasis. So now they are saying they are abandoning that practice and are giving back the Guru Granth. They are a "distinct" path. To be fair, criticism of Ravidasis even if ustified cannot regard them as renegade, heretic or apostate Sikhs. They were never Sikhs and never have been a sect of Sikhism.

Source: Ravidasi - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

 

[Randip Singh]

No problem to us in Sikhism from this act. A day will come and they will relise the mistake they had made. It was due to our reverened Gurus that Bhagats got their fair place with due respect in the religious history of India. The respect to Bani of Bhagat Ravidass jee, which it had recieved from our Gurus donot have any parallels. god bless them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe all the Sant Mat/Bhai groups will follow suit. I know Namdhari's carry out this practice too.

 

[kds1980]

Ravidasia Chamars

Sikh converts from the community working professionally in leather are usually referred to as Ravidasia Sikhs. The term Ravidasi is an adaptation from Ravidasias, as some Chamar castes came to be called.
Chamars, as untouchables, lay at the lowest level of the Hindu social order, only slightly higher than the chuhras (sweepers) by virtue of their being craftsmen. "ChuhraChamar" was, until recently, a common pejorative term referring to the two castes but the myth has now broken with growing awareness among the superstitious illiterate masses from other castes. The teachings of the Sikh gurus, with their rejection of the caste system and emphasis on ethnic equality of all human beings, appealed to them. Of special significance for them was the canonization of the hymns of Shri Guru Ravidas Ji in the Sikh Scripture. Consequently, many Chamars converted to Sikhism and were, as a class, given the respectable name of Ravidassia Chamars.
Conversion of Hindu Chamars to Sikhism accelerated towards the end of the nineteenth century. This was due to the rise of the Singh Sabha movement, launched in 1873 for the restoration and propagation of Sikh teachings, including the removal of caste distinctions. The number of Chamars who declared Sikhism as their religion increased from 100,014 in 1881 to 155,717 in 1931.
Meanwhile, the term Ravidasias was no longer confined to Sikh Chamars. During the census of 1931, many Hindu Chamars registered themselves as Ravidasias, and many who registered themselves as Ravidasias declared Adi Dharm ("the primal faith") as their religion. Nearly 52.8 percent of all Ravidasias declared themselves Sikhs.

source


Chamar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kds1980]

I think we should differentiate between Ravidasi sikhs who had faith in Guru granth sahib and other sikh guru's and other ravidasi who don't have any faith in sikh Guru's .So we should not try to say that all Ravidasi are same

 

[Hardip Singh]

Response to Kamlee Klesh:


YouTube - Reply to Kamlesh Klesh

Veer jeo,
Perfactly said. This is the true way of Sikhi to answer the malices put by the lady & her fellows. Thanks for the reply.
By the way, Indy jee, who is this Gursikh. Can I Know his name and address, if possible.
Hardip Singh

 

[Kuls1980]

People this is a very serous case. Sikhs are already a minority in India and the west and what we have done is made our selves even smaller. Many people have replied to this topic by suggesting that it does not matter for Ravidaases to leave the Sikh umbrella.
But in the political environment, we need the majority votes. If it wasn’t for these votes, everyone who is an amrithdhari will not be allowed to wear their kirpans. They surely will be banned with no thought of it. Sikh’s are very much to blame in what has happened and this is just the first wave.
If Sikhs do not change their way of thought, they will also become minority in the Punjab region. There is already discrimination against Sikhs with hair cuts and trimmed beards and are labeled as non Sikhs by many Political Sikh bodies. If this carries on, many Unorthodox Sikhs will leave the faith.
People we need to think deeply on what impact this will have on the future of the Sikh Dharma.

Guru fethay and God bless

 

[Hardip Singh]

People this is a very serous case. Sikhs are already a minority in India and the west and what we have done is made our selves even smaller. Many people have replied to this topic by suggesting that it does not matter for Ravidaases to leave the Sikh umbrella.
But in the political environment, we need the majority votes. If it wasn’t for these votes, everyone who is an amrithdhari will not be allowed to wear their kirpans. They surely will be banned with no thought of it. Sikh’s are very much to blame in what has happened and this is just the first wave.
If Sikhs do not change their way of thought, they will also become minority in the Punjab region. There is already discrimination against Sikhs with hair cuts and trimmed beards and are labeled as non Sikhs by many Political Sikh bodies. If this carries on, many Unorthodox Sikhs will leave the faith.
People we need to think deeply on what impact this will have on the future of the Sikh Dharma.

Guru fethay and God bless

Answer to your quarry has been their in SGGS. It says' Haanee Virlee Nahi Ghanne". 10th Guru Sahib has stressed much more on the quality (Rehat) and NOT on the quantity."Rehat piyaree mujhko Sikh piyaraa nahi". AKALPURAKH is definately going to pull us out of this mess. I am 100% sure. Have beleif in HIM.

 

[Kuls1980]

Hardip Singh Ji,

I fully understand about the spiritual aspect of Sri Guru Granth Sahib. I fully believe Sri Guru Granth Sahib is a great spiritual guide, but politically and on a worldly level it’s not the answer to the problem. Rehit is important for an individual to gain spiritual uplift and achieve self enlightenment, but we have an issue on a political base. We require the understanding on individual faiths under the Sikh umbrella and the understanding of acceptance.
Sikh dharma is an individual path for all but in the present environment we have no understanding of this. We continue to walk with no thought of others, my brother, this Rehit you are mentioning will be on the verge of extinction in the near future if following trend of attitudes continues.

God bless and Guru Fethay