Girls Kicked Out Of Nagar Kirtan Parade In Toronto. For Being Girls

[Rajwinder]

I think the moment we will start giving importance to physical aspects of things in a religion .. it's doomed ..
way i think is our gurus did good work , probably they were highly intellectual personalities who thought out of box rather then following things without understanding why it is in this way and then they recorded their and other people who they meet and got good philosophy in guru granth sahib.

To me .. i totally get it , this is a male dominated society and to an extent in western world too and it will take time to change things .. many things changed already in last decades from women going to jobs , taking executive positions .. potentially president candidates etc.

In this case , i am really not that worried from the women rights prospective because what u can expect from these "sikh look alike" who :
- hardly help any body needy
- almost never stand for right thing
- spend minimal time on giving thought about society , our self and god so very less intellectual
not sure now a days these nagar kirtan is a show of what ???

It reminds of this quote :
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"

what i am more worried about is that in a foreign land where on one side we are pushing so much on allowing turban , wearing 5 things , going in specific type of jobs ....

these countries probably will think what so special about us that they need to do all these special things for us in their country ? what special thing we are doing as sikhs that they are not doing .. probably mostly now a days it is based on what sikhs did historically but frankly even our history seems to be frozen for a while now ..

 

[Dev singh]

Disgraceful and shameless act... what kind of mentality can do such a thing... so blatantly...

Can we have more details about what actually happened there, the video is clipped right when the girls were asked what has happened?

People are power hungry. And gender bases. Many men don't want female get ahead. It is not just for Sikhs, Look at the USA election.
Every where system is letting girls below. It will not be solved until Women take charge.

Dev

 

[Dev singh]

I feel like every religion after a while since its inception becomes corrupted.

When Guru Nanak Dev ji came on this earth, there was discrimination on basis of religion , caste and gender. And Guru ji addressed all of them

When Guru Nanak said "Neecha andar neech jaat , neechi hu att neech. Nanak tin ke sang saath , wadiye seo kya rees. Jithe neech samaaliye, {censored word, do not repeat.}he nadar teri bakshis"
(Those who are the lowest of low castes, the extremely low ones, Nanak prefers their company.
Why prefer company of so-called 'big' people, because where the lowly gets cared for, there god's mercy reigns )

Now I am not at all saying women are lowly. Women are equal in all respect in Sikhi .

And I have heard some people even justify women being denied sewa as panj pyaare, etc by saying that during the baisakhi of 1699 when Guru Gobind Singh ji asked for heads, no women got up.
However I think its totally wrong to say.

And all these incidences do prove atleast one point. Whats on the paper is always different to whats in the practice when it comes to religions .

Religion and community are two different things . The problem is that the community today would rather follow the burraaah , fukre-type punjabism than the original nirvair sikhi of 10 gurus.

Its not just the women, We have problem with gays, 'bhaiyyas', etc despite the fact that Guru Gobind singh ji were born in 'bhaiyya-land' (aka bihar)

Someone with the sikhi-like saroop can get mass following among hindus *cough *cough .. Nirankaris and radhasoamis I am talking about you ! It means sikhi saroop is definitely not a barrier to get people into sikhi

and we have done little for the parchar of sikhi among the low-caste of hindus in india. We would have easily had our numbers at 5% or more if there was a india-wide parchar among the untouchables. But thanks to our ignorance and jatt-superiority-complex and our 'bhaiyya-phobia' and our false sense of 'sardaar' ego among a host of other things, many in india don't even know they have a much better option of religion : Guru Nanak's sikhi

 

[Dev singh]

I think the moment we will start giving importance to physical aspects of things in a religion .. it's doomed ..
way i think is our gurus did good work , probably they were highly intellectual personalities who thought out of box rather then following things without understanding why it is in this way and then they recorded their and other people who they meet and got good philosophy in guru granth sahib.

To me .. i totally get it , this is a male dominated society and to an extent in western world too and it will take time to change things .. many things changed already in last decades from women going to jobs , taking executive positions .. potentially president candidates etc.

SSA,


How to get free from Religion?


I think the problem in the world is RELIGION. When I look around and see it every big war started with religion. It was needed then there was no law and order. Now most countries have civil laws that can protect the public. We don’t need religion.


Most religion is built on myth.

How can we get rid of religions? I don’t see any ways to control religion.

Every day there is religion is springing up.


What dose religions give us? HATE. Nothing more. Look at one self, he/her will condemn other religion.

Every one claim that his/her religion it best. If they are rich that is best religion.


We cannot get away from religions, but we can remove religion from our mind.

If we want to be free of religion we have to clean our mind and think new ways.


People are worship Idols when all religions creator said do not worship IDOLS .


I need some good suggestion from the intelligent people.


Good luck

 

[Harry Haller]

People are power hungry. And gender bases. Many men don't want female get ahead. It is not just for Sikhs, Look at the USA election.
Every where system is letting girls below. It will not be solved until Women take charge.

Dev

I don't think the women want to take charge, I think they just want equality

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

I don't think the women want to take charge, I think they just want equality

Women who want equality in Sikhi do not want to usurp power wrongfully. We only want a chance to be voted into power same as the men... based on our own actions and merits rather than what's between our legs. We only want same chances to do seva as men, to do all of the religious duties, to not be seen as inferior or dirty because of a biological function that Waheguru created us with which is necessary to create life, we don't want to be seen as subject to male authority and expected to be submissive to men. We want ability to participate in a nagar kirtan alongside men as flagbearers without being kicked out for simply being born in a female body. We want ability to exercise full ability of a member of the Khalsa, including the ability to initiate new Khalsa as one of Panj Pyaras. What we can do in life and what we can achieve, should not be predetermined by what parts we have between our legs. Rather allow our merits to speak as to what we can accomplish.

Its obvious that many supposed Singhs want the comfort of traditional Punjabi cultural view where woman is basically an unpaid servant, bought through marriage, expected to be unquestioningly obedient to her 'boss' who she is to see and serve as a God over her and satisfy his ever needs. Her needs are secondary and only matter if her husband thinks they matter. She is not to be in any leadership role, and remain secondary in Sikhi while males are to hold all the leadership and decision making roles. Women's voice does not matter in decisions regarding religion etc. This is the status quo. This is what so many Singhs want to keep. And no wonder... look how awesome it is from the Singh point of view! I mean if women actually gained independence and a voice, they would stand to lose all the above!

Thanks goodness not every Sikh male thinks this way! And in fact MANY are starting to speak up and say they believe in equality taught by our Gurus!

 

[Harry Haller]

We only want a chance to be voted into power same as the men... based on our own actions and merits rather than what's between our legs

you've got this wrong, women are not made secondary because of what is between their legs, they are made secondary because what is between their ears, now, you see most men's brains ARE between their legs!

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

I don't think the women want to take charge, I think they just want equality

I think this is an individual thing. We do have a few Hillarys who want to run things. They should have the same opportunities as the men. It would be hard for the women to screw things up any worse than the men have.
Most of us don't want to run things, though. We have our lives to live, jobs to work at, children to help raise, problems to solve. We have neither the time nor inclination to "take over."
Myself as an example, I'm an adventurer, not a bureaucrat...

 

[Dev singh]

Women who want equality in Sikhi do not want to usurp power wrongfully. We only want a chance to be voted into power same as the men... based on our own actions and merits rather than what's between our legs. We only want same chances to do seva as men, to do all of the religious duties, to not be seen as inferior or dirty because of a biological function that Waheguru created us with which is necessary to create life, we don't want to be seen as subject to male authority and expected to be submissive to men. We want ability to participate in a nagar kirtan alongside men as flagbearers without being kicked out for simply being born in a female body. We want ability to exercise full ability of a member of the Khalsa, including the ability to initiate new Khalsa as one of Panj Pyaras. What we can do in life and what we can achieve, should not be predetermined by what parts we have between our legs. Rather allow our merits to speak as to what we can accomplish.

Its obvious that many supposed Singhs want the comfort of traditional Punjabi cultural view where woman is basically an unpaid servant, bought through marriage, expected to be unquestioningly obedient to her 'boss' who she is to see and serve as a God over her and satisfy his ever needs. Her needs are secondary and only matter if her husband thinks they matter. She is not to be in any leadership role, and remain secondary in Sikhi while males are to hold all the leadership and decision making roles. Women's voice does not matter in decisions regarding religion etc. This is the status quo. This is what so many Singhs want to keep. And no wonder... look how awesome it is from the Singh point of view! I mean if women actually gained independence and a voice, they would stand to lose all the above!

Thanks goodness not every Sikh male thinks this way! And in fact MANY are starting to speak up and say they believe in equality taught by our Gurus!

you've got this wrong, women are not made secondary because of what is between their legs, they are made secondary because what is between their ears, now, you see most men's brains ARE between their legs!

If we are calling that women are same as we are then there is no if and but. Women are same.

 

[Harry Haller]

If we are calling that women are same as we are then there is no if and but. Women are same.

I don't think they are the same, but you do not have to be the same to be equal

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

I don't think they are the same, but you do not have to be the same to be equal

We cannot really talk about being equal and here is why. No two people are equal. We are not talking about equality, we are talking about equal rights, which is possible and necessary.

Let me play mathematician for a moment (Please quit groaning. This isn't difficult.) Imagine you are in the USA and you have 5 dimes (a dime is worth ten cents.) and I have 2 quarters (a quarter is worth 25 cents.)

The coins we have are different in many ways: the size and markings are different, for example. Being different, they are not equal.
However, they are of equal value. Can you imagine a merchant refusing the two quarters and insisting that you pay with five dimes? No merchant who can stay in business could possibly be that idiotic.

This thing about men and women is the same. It's pretty ridiculous to call us equal in the sense of being the same. However, we are of equal value, and deserve, and must demand equal rights.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

We cannot really talk about being equal and here is why. No two people are equal. We are not talking about equality, we are talking about equal rights, which is possible and necessary.

Let me play mathematician for a moment (Please quit groaning. This isn't difficult.) Imagine you are in the USA and you have 5 dimes (a dime is worth ten cents.) and I have 2 quarters (a quarter is worth 25 cents.)

The coins we have are different in many ways: the size and markings are different, for example. Being different, they are not equal.
However, they are of equal value. Can you imagine a merchant refusing the two quarters and insisting that you pay with five dimes? No merchant who can stay in business could possibly be that idiotic.

This thing about men and women is the same. It's pretty ridiculous to call us equal in the sense of being the same. However, we are of equal value, and deserve, and must demand equal rights.

Except what many Singhs are trying to say is that a man > a woman. Meaning that they think only 5 men can be panj payras because there is something inherently lacking in us as females. At Darbar Sahib women can not follow nor even touch the Palki Sahib let alone seva to support it. The only explanation is if they think women are somehow a lesser level spiritually than men. As in we are not good enough (probably has to do with menstruation making us 'dirty' and impure. Actually I am sure this has A LOT to do with it as I remember someone quoting this is why women can't do seva there. We are considered dirty and impure, men are not.)

 

[Dev singh]

We cannot really talk about being equal and here is why. No two people are equal. We are not talking about equality, we are talking about equal rights, which is possible and necessary.

Let me play mathematician for a moment (Please quit groaning. This isn't difficult.) Imagine you are in the USA and you have 5 dimes (a dime is worth ten cents.) and I have 2 quarters (a quarter is worth 25 cents.)

Good point Inderjit kaur
Every one would have equal rights/
There are not equal right in any religion. Who was suppose to be protectors of rights. Even in Sikh religion don't have the equal rights.

The coins we have are different in many ways: the size and markings are different, for example. Being different, they are not equal.
However, they are of equal value. Can you imagine a merchant refusing the two quarters and insisting that you pay with five dimes? No merchant who can stay in business could possibly be that idiotic.

This thing about men and women is the same. It's pretty ridiculous to call us equal in the sense of being the same. However, we are of equal value, and deserve, and must demand equal rights.

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

Except what many Singhs are trying to say is that a man > a woman. Meaning that they think only 5 men can be panj payras because there is something inherently lacking in us as females. At Darbar Sahib women can not follow nor even touch the Palki Sahib let alone seva to support it. The only explanation is if they think women are somehow a lesser level spiritually than men. As in we are not good enough (probably has to do with menstruation making us 'dirty' and impure. Actually I am sure this has A LOT to do with it as I remember someone quoting this is why women can't do seva there. We are considered dirty and impure, men are not.)

These Singhs you refer to are following the antiquated, Punjabi Patriarchal social system that every Guru from the first to the last utterly rejected. I'll go out on a limb and anger many by suggesting that according to the definition of a Sikh in the SRM, they might not even be Sikhs because they don't believe in "the utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus."

Article I – Definition of Sikh
Any human being who faithfully believes in:
• One Immortal Being
•Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Dev to Guru Gobind Singh
•The Guru Granth Sahib
• The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus
• The baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who
does not owe allegiance to any
other religion, is a Sikh.

As for that old bugaboo about menstruation, I remind them that that is how Waheguru arranged for the perpetration of our species and without it there would be no one at all. To devalue menstruation in any way is to denigrate their own existence.

What I have written here is true - and that it is not recognized as true shows only that we are dealing with some people who honor neither truth nor truthful living. I haven't a clue what we can do about it, though.

 

[Rajwinder]

I think u can live without religion , so way i think about it is how u know about the religion of a certain individual :

- What type of worship place he/she goes
- Sometimes from the name
- What rituals u do when u get married or born or died
- What holy book u follow.
- What kind of attire u wear

Few things which are missing from above list and which you cannot use to judge the religion is what kind of thinking a person carries , do you work on your thinking process and discuss with others to get their opinion and if you think something is right and make sense do u stand for it ?

I think the problem is that people who we think started these so called religions .. did good work and left this world . what we are doing is worshiping them or their philosophies and their historical places and by doing that most of the people stay happy because they think that this will make these ancestors happy and eventually will make god happy.

So to me the first thing to solve this religion thing is to really stop thinking about it and think about what do "u" really want to do it's almost like if u are from sikh religion , then assume that u dont go to gurdwara , remove singh/kaur from your name , simple find the girl/boy u think u can spend your life with and go to court and sign the papers , dont read any holy book and be clean shaven.

Given all this what will be the first thing that u want to do ?

SSA,


How to get free from Religion?


I think the problem in the world is RELIGION. When I look around and see it every big war started with religion. It was needed then there was no law and order. Now most countries have civil laws that can protect the public. We don’t need religion.


Most religion is built on myth.

How can we get rid of religions? I don’t see any ways to control religion.

Every day there is religion is springing up.


What dose religions give us? HATE. Nothing more. Look at one self, he/her will condemn other religion.

Every one claim that his/her religion it best. If they are rich that is best religion.


We cannot get away from religions, but we can remove religion from our mind.

If we want to be free of religion we have to clean our mind and think new ways.


People are worship Idols when all religions creator said do not worship IDOLS .


I need some good suggestion from the intelligent people.


Good luck