Paganism Give Me Your Honest Opinions

[spnadmin]

Lee ji

This is one person or a sangat that has to rethink its mission, probably won't, and so consider yourself redeemed because I said so.............

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Narayanjot ji and Lee ji,

Guru Fateh.

The reasons for holding both hands to accept Parshada- Roti are multifolds. We accept Karah Parshad with both hands. It is a tradition that one shows humility while receiving with both hands. It makes him/her look wanting and appreciating what he/she is receiving through Guru's grace.

In not too distant past, Langar was served without any plates of any kind in many Gurdwaras, especially during the celebration of the Gurpurabs when the sangat is much larger. So, parshada was served first and it used be much larger in circumference than it is today. Being a round big parshada, it was impractical to hold it in one hand. Daal and vegetables used be served on the parshada itself, hence both hands were necessary for that purpose. Normally 2 were served at the same time. The lower parshada was eaten first and the top one was used as a bowl.

Now, we have plates either of steel or of styrofoam on which Langar is served so the modus operandi has reversed because, sadly to say that Langar has become a banquet rather than something to fill the tummy up with basic things. Now we have salad, daal, vegetables/ sabzi, raita (yogurt with goodies) and may be something else,plus the dessert. So, all these things are served first. We normally lift our plates with both hands in order to avoid any spillage while receiving all these things. Parshada is the last thing that is served now rather than the first one. As the plate is almost full with the stuff, people do not lift their plates to receive a parshada or 2 because they want the roti to be dry so they themselves can mix and match with the things in the plate to eat it. So, people offer their both hands to get the roti as it is round and clumsy, it may fall if taken with one hand, and as mentioned above, receiving something with both hands shows one's desire,need and want to receive.

Regards
Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Tejwant ji

I appreciate your insight an information. However, we don't receive parshad at langar but during the gurdwara service, close to its ending. Yes parshad is received with both hands.

First we receive napkins and then we hold up the napkin with both hands and receive parshad on the napkin. That is one gurdwara.

At another one can receive parshad at any time during the day 24/7 because Sri Guru Granth Sahib is always in darshan. No napkins used. Yes here too parshad is received with both hands.

At both it is possible to have langar before, during or after a service. Most go following the service.

I did not realize that some gurdwaras serve the parshad at langar. So it would be appropriate to hold up both hands.

 

[max314]

Can anyone see the irony?
Today in Britain we have peoples from all over the world wanting to live here. All want and expect that their cultures be nurtured. Let any voice be raised by the indigenous population that they are uncomfortable with these foreign cultures and all hell breaks loose! The Asians are by far the most vocal in their demand that we accept their cultures. I find that these festivals that are celebrated are an anathema to me and yet my view is a poor second to the rights of my new fellow citizens! They only have to scream their civil liberties are being infringed and my view is now turned into me being accused of racism.

The report below is from Reuters Sunday 13 Feb 05

BHOPAL, India (Reuters) – Hard line Hindus have vowed to disrupt Saint Valentine's Day celebrations in India's central state of Madhya Pradesh, saying the Western love festival was a violation of India's traditional culture.
Saint Valentine's Day has become increasingly popular in India in recent years, led by retailers selling red balloons, velvet pillows and teddy bears to mark the festival.
But the growing popularity of the day in officially secular, but mainly Hindu, India has in recent years sparked countrywide protests which have sometimes turned violent.
"We will oppose it tooth and nail because the concept of Valentine's Day celebrations has come from the West and through it an attempt is being made to spoil Indian culture," said Devendra Rawat, a member of the Bajrang Dal, on Saturday.

Can anyone see the Irony here? Or is it just me?

John

Mainstream India is a fiercely conservative society. Valentine's Day is about open flirtation and fraternisation between young men and women, and this is seen as unacceptable by many. It's got nothing at all to do with St. Valentine. As I'm sure you're aware, there is a thriving Christian community in India that has been warmly encouraged by mainstream India.

So this is really a cultural issue. I assure you the people celebrating Valentine's Day won't be doing it for religious reasons.


As for your views on minorities in Britain, I have no doubt that you are a racist. One of those "I'm not racist, but..." type racists. Non-Whites are not responsible for the decline of indigenous British culture. I gather you enjoy blaming the visible 'others' but I'm afraid that if you value indigenous British culture (which I don't think you actually do - I think you're just reacting to seeing a bunch of darkies whose unfamiliar cultural habits frighten you) then the only people to blame are White Brits.

After all, you do make up 92% of the country's population. What the hell can minorities actually affect in the grand scheme of things?

So don't confuse a democratic country's duty to accommodate and protect its minority citizens with an imagined attack on so-called 'indigenous' British culture. Because you won't find the answer you're looking for if you do. Only hatred.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Tejwant ji

I appreciate your insight an information. However, we don't receive parshad at langar but during the gurdwara service, close to its ending. Yes parshad is received with both hands.

First we receive napkins and then we hold up the napkin with both hands and receive parshad on the napkin. That is one gurdwara.

At another one can receive parshad at any time during the day 24/7 because Sri Guru Granth Sahib is always in darshan. No napkins used. Yes here too parshad is received with both hands.

At both it is possible to have langar before, during or after a service. Most go following the service.

I did not realize that some gurdwaras serve the parshad at langar. So it would be appropriate to hold up both hands.

Narayanjot ji,

Guru Fateh.

I gave the example of Parshad in the manner of receiving in a wanting manner with both hands, nothing more. If I am not mistaken you are confused between Parshad and Parshada which is Roti. In many Gurdwaras people are waiting in the langar hall when the ardaas and then Hukumnaama take place. The Parshad is served to them in the langar hall where they are having langar. Many Gurdwaras discourage people to receive Parshad on a napkin. Napkin is there to clean one's hands after the Parshad has been received. There are no napkins given in any Gurdwaras in India. Many people take Parshad at home and then distribute it to their relatives who receive it in the same manner, with two hands.

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Tejwant ji

Yes i was confused. I did not know what you meant by receiving parshad at langar. It did not sound right.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Can anyone see the irony?
Today in Britain we have peoples from all over the world wanting to live here. All want and expect that their cultures be nurtured. Let any voice be raised by the indigenous population that they are uncomfortable with these foreign cultures and all hell breaks loose! The Asians are by far the most vocal in their demand that we accept their cultures. I find that these festivals that are celebrated are an anathema to me and yet my view is a poor second to the rights of my new fellow citizens! They only have to scream their civil liberties are being infringed and my view is now turned into me being accused of racism.

The report below is from Reuters Sunday 13 Feb 05

BHOPAL, India (Reuters) – Hard line Hindus have vowed to disrupt Saint Valentine's Day celebrations in India's central state of Madhya Pradesh, saying the Western love festival was a violation of India's traditional culture.
Saint Valentine's Day has become increasingly popular in India in recent years, led by retailers selling red balloons, velvet pillows and teddy bears to mark the festival.
But the growing popularity of the day in officially secular, but mainly Hindu, India has in recent years sparked countrywide protests which have sometimes turned violent.
"We will oppose it tooth and nail because the concept of Valentine's Day celebrations has come from the West and through it an attempt is being made to spoil Indian culture," said Devendra Rawat, a member of the Bajrang Dal, on Saturday.

Can anyone see the Irony here? Or is it just me?

John

John,

I am sorry to say but I do not understand what you are upset about and what is your true gripe? Is Valentine's day a religious affair and only in the UK?

What if some radical conservatives object to it in India?
Valentine has become a big business in India now despite the protests. It rakes millions of dollars. It is about time you updated yourself with the reality

What does the news from Reuters have to do with the Asians living in the UK?

Can you please show me the connection in an objective manner?

Why are you angry at the immigrants who have also pitched in the UK society with their hard work, blood sweat and tears?

Was it OK for you when the Brits invaded almost the whole world and looted at will?

I do not know whether you know this or not that The Kohinoor diamond that is in the Queen's Crown was looted from Maharaja Ranjit Singh, the Sikh King who was conned by the Brits. Your gripe shows you have very little understanding about the subject you are talking about.

When are you going to write to your Queen to hand that back to its rightful owners?

As I said in my other post, never be afraid to learn. Have the knowledge of things and then make your point otherwise it seems you are full of hatred and disdain of people from other cultures that live in the UK, which shows your own insecurity.

Tejwant Singh

 

[sachbol]

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Das agree to theecoopie that there are many persons from ethnic miniorities in UK,who take the libral system for a ride.

If they are not controled then they may spoil the British culture.But this must not be said in general sense that all are Bad.

Then coming to India.There in MP or Madhya Pradeh there are no Britishers who are been prevented from doing there regious functiun.Nor ever any(Native) Britisher who takes Indian citizen is ever descrimnatived upon.In Fact in Indian parilament's lower house there are one or two seats where minorities of Anglo Indian are nominated if otherwise they are not elected by public.

Indians respect Britishers,He have Ruskin Bond,Mark Tully and many such persons some are Indian citizens other are just like visitors.Other Americans like Tom Alter or Bob Cristo also are respected.

Then what is so fuss about St. vlentine days.So sir,In India there is an uneducated/Semi educated neo rich class. They have not leanrt the good things of western culture.In this case Thau shalt not commit adultary from holy Bible but have rather taken the notion of free sex.

On Valentine days this sort of thing without the knowledge of condoms etc. is done.We call such class of persons wh o want to copy west only for there matterialitics consumer oriented life and not the cultural value of those nations as 'Kawa Chala hans Ke Chaal Apni Bhool Gaya'.when Crow(Raven) tried to copy the ways of swan it forgot its own ways.

So in India there is no problem with western value or culture but when that is insted misused by foolish people thats is the main toruble.BBC therefore is trying fast to educate at grass root level the various persons about sex and AIDS related education.Else it will take an epidemic proportion in Here,Unlike you UK here there are so many people that state can not take care of all.

Then there are thugs in sub urban regions,which let young one enter into flesh trade or free sex and then they will make a porn film of it.They will make profit by it or even black mail young childern.Police often can not help(Here it is not like that your UK police as they are more busy to tackle more henous crimes like terroism)Thugs can even blackmail young children that they may make film public if they are not paid.

As per Indian law girl below 16 years can not go for sex.18 years old can maary.And boy above 21 can marry.

Then coming to Hindu parties.They are worse then your BNP but they are often kept at bay by people and law.Thats the reason that at present we in India have Both president and Prime minister from minorities.Hindu are largest about 80% of Indian population.We have Sikh Prime minster(Sikhs are 1.9% of total population) Yes Military chife is also a Sikh.Then we have Muslim (12% of population) President,he is of totaly differnt race.

And in fact actual chef executive of India,who controls Prime Minister is a Christian(3% of the population) and she is not of Indian origeon but from Itlay in europe.

In UK So far other then having nassir hussain as captain of Criket team no such things are at least by Das not seen.

In order to tackle the mence of illegal immigrents and asylum seeker two things can be done.

1. Laws to be made stricter.
2. Survilance could be made stricter.
3. Some one found misusing the welfare benfit can be stripped of citizenship and sent back to native place packing(during naturalisation these can be as pre condition).

Das has seen a bloody Bad tendency in UK by some bloody Asians(Das is also Asian so no one msut take offense).

They come and live and UK till geting UK passport,When they start to get persion then they go back to live in India.

Often there are some Idiots who drink or even trim there beard or even do not keep 5Ks yet they seek asylum for there casue of 'Khailstan'.They aRe Hardly Sikh yet they can convince home office that they are fighting for Sikh casue.There are very few genunine cases then fake one.

Same can be said for PakistaNIS,Bangladeshis or Sri Lankan or say Somaliyans.There are only 10000 baijunis in the world.But in Uk there are 4 times more then 10000 people have been granted the refuge status as Baijoonois,.

At last Das can say,UK can accomodate good people frommworld over but wrong people may be returned.

And in India wrong things of western culture are taken in and not even a single postive point of westren value is taken.In West true christians hate divorce but Alas in India there are good propotion of adultary or divorce in christian.It would have been better if they would have been hindus if they were not to do sin after becoming Chrsitian.

Waheguru mehar kare,
I fully agree with you. Every country has right to choose right people in a right way

 

[Lee]

RaviSingh I never said English traditions are being lost, I said are we losing English traditions?
I do think that in a multicultural society, all cultures will be watered down to some extent [not a bad thing] due to integration.
Look at Americanised Islam... they have t-shirts/baseball about Allah... but Muslims in Asia do not do that.

Caramel Chocolate ji,

I don't agree actualy. I'm English, and a Londoner to boot. Which English traditions can you see being lost?

What is tradition and what are it's uses?

To me Tradition is doing a thing becuase it has always been done, or doing this way becuase it has always been done this way.

It's athema to me and to the way the world works.

Ask yourself, what is differant now as opposed to 100 years aog, or 50 years ago or even 20 years ago. The world is not static or stagnant, things change, as they must. We as a species it seems do not readily embrace change. No my freind I think if tradition is too important to a human, then it is a clear sign that that this human is far far immeresed in maya.

Our Guru's came and sharing the same jot tore down traditon and showed us what it is, a tool for the unenlightend.

British tradition like say the Maypole, the Hobby horse, or the Morris men, can you tell me what lies behind such traditions, can anybody objectivly answer me? We have forgotten what these traditions mean, so what good are they?

Tradition, like meaningless rituals are, well meaningless.

Ohh we Brits are not the only ones over concerned with tradition it is a species thing. Elsewhere today I saw two Sikh men adivise a young Sikh woman that the wearing of turban by females is not a Sikh nessciaty, but why? Tradition!

Yep it goes against all that Guru ji tells us.

No my freind if we are losing some, then all being according to Gods will, I must belive they are going becuase we simply do not need them.