Greedy Jathedars And Their Political Motivations

[spnadmin]

I am not sure if this answers your questions.

Here are 3 audio files. The Download option does not work, so you will have to use the player.

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Guru Granth / Guru Panth & Takht's

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Why did kirtan from 'DG' before?

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Why not touch this issue during Akal Takht seva?
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Source is Dasam Granth | Guru Granth Sahib (GGS) Web Academy
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[vikram9274]

RAGI REJECTS NITNEM AND AMRIT SANCHAR BANEES & ARDAAS
PANTHIC.ORG
Published on December 1, 2009

Sri Amritsar Sahib - After the heretic Darshan Singh was summoned to Sri Akal Takht Sahib, further audio and video evidence has surfaced corroborating the complaints filed by Panthic organizations that the Ragi has been openly attacking fundamental Sikh concepts and practices such as the sacred Nitnem, Amrit Sanchar ceremony, and the Sikh Ardaas.
Panthic organizations have requested the Apex Sikh Takht to take strict action against the blasphemous ragi for violating Panthic edicts, challenging age-old Panthic traditions, and hurting Sikh sentiments. The Ragi has been ordered to appear at Sri Akal Takht Sahib at noontime on December 5th, 2009.
For the benefit of Panthic.org readers, below are a small collection of audio and video clips evidencing the Ragi’s offensive remarks.

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"ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ…ਜਦੋਂ… ਨਿਤਨੇਮ ਦੀਆਂ ਕੁਝ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੀਆਂ ਰਚਨਾਵਾਂ ਜਿਹੜੀਆਂ ਨਿਤਨੇਮ ਵਿੱਚ ਸ਼ਾਮਿਲ ਕੀਤੀਆਂ ਗਈਆਂ ਉਹ ਰਵਨਾਵਾਂ ਉਹ ਵੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੇ ਵਕਤ…ਨਹੀਂ, ਮੈ ਇਹ ਗੱਲ ਸਪਸ਼ਟ ਕਰ ਦਿਆਂ – ਗੁਰੂ ਦਸਮ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹ ਦੀਆਂ ਰਚਨਾਵਾਂ ਨਿਤਨੇਮ ਦਾ ਅੱਜ ਜਿਹੜਾ ਅੱਜ ਰੂਪ ਅਸੀਂ ਵੇਖਦੇ ਹਾਂ ਇਹ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਸਮ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹ ਦੇ ਵਕਤ ਦੇ ਫ਼ੈਸਲੇ ਨਹੀਂ"
- Ragi Darshan Singh

​

The true motives of the Ragi and his avid supporters, the Spokesman-Kala-Afghani combine, are rapidly becoming clear. Their goal seems to be the open invalidation of the Khalsa identity and culture. This is being done by repeatedly rejecting the sacred Khanday-ki-Pahul ceremony, the five kakkars and the concept of the Panth Piaray by simply labeling them as Brahman or RSS baggage.
Below is an excerpt of an article written by a pro-KalaAfghani naastic that was recently published on their naastic mouthpiece "Sikh Marg." It sums up the true intentions of the Ragi and his cohorts:

"ਅਸੀਂ ਹੁਣ ਪੂਰਨ ਵਿਸ਼ਵਾਸ਼ ਨਾਲ ਕਹ ਸਕਦੇ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਸਾਡੇ ਸਚੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਨੇ ਪਹਿਲੀਆਂ ਨੋਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀਆਂ ਤੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੁੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੇ ਹੁਕਮਾਂ ਵਿਰੁਧ ਕੋਈ ਨਵੀਂ ਰਹਿਤ ਮਰਯਾਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਬਨਾਈ।

ਖੰਡੇ ਦੀ ਪਹੁਲ, ਕਕਾਰ, ਪੰਜ ਪਿਆਰੇ, ਇਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਰੂਪ ਜਾਨ ਕੇ ਪੂਜਨਾਂ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਮਥੇ ਟੇਕਨਾਂ ਤੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਬਸਤਰ ਅਸਤਰ ਦੇ ਨਿਵਾਜਨਾਂ ਇਸ ਝੂਠੇ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਨੀ ਇਤਹਾਸ ਦੀ ਦੇਨ ਹੈ। ਇਹ ਸਭ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਵਿਰੁਧ ਕਮ ਅਜ ਸਿਖ ਕਰ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ। ਕੀ ਇਸ ਕੂੜੇ ਇਤਿਹਾਸ ਦੀ ਅਸਲ਼ੀਅਤ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਸਮਝਨਗੇ?"
- Dr. Gurmukh Singh, Delhi (SikhMarg) ​

The Sikh community needs to be vigilant against continuous onslaught on the sacred Sikh traditions, and reject the message being spread by the heretical Ragi and his band of atheist riffraffs.






here is the complete link- Panthic.org




I have heard that Ragi has said that all these cd's and audio tapes are doctored and edited and that he has originals. What if his tapes are edited and these are originals? I think they should be tested by professionals to see if they have been doctored (whether the Ragis are "originals" or Lambas "doctored" are truly edited). This would a big offense since it will an open attempt to mislead the Akal Takhat, whether committed by ragi or lamba.

 

[spnadmin]

I can't help wondering why the solution comes from a focus on Professor Darshan Singh and not on the venal corruption of the gurmatta process itself. The focus in my opinion should be on Shiromani Akali Dal where the paralysis of mind heart and soul begins. Until that happens, this is never going to end.

 

[vikram9274]

ma'am this is not a special incident. This happens time and time again. When once goes against the flow or the common belief he is persecuted (galileo, greek philosophers, etc). I am not saying I agree with Ragi or am against him. My problem is with the way this is all being played out by both partied as well as by the media. I personally bleieve that we should professionals look at both the videos that Ragi will provide as well as Lamba and find out which one is doctored. If Lamba has in fact doctored the videos or the audio evidence, then he is in the wrong and should be punished for an attempt to deceive the Sikh Population as well as the Akal Takhat. The way the Jathedars have handled not only the Ragi debacle but also Kala-afgana, Chicago Baba, those in the Haryana Gurdwara Prabandakh Committee situation, and many others, is despicable and outrageously stupid. Every other day there ar new media releases and in the end, either something stupid and injust will be done when Ragi is presented at the Akal Takhat or nothing will be done at all and only another date will set to meet.

 

[spnadmin]

ma'am this is not a special incident. This happens time and time again. When once goes against the flow or the common belief he is persecuted (galileo, greek philosophers, etc). I am not saying I agree with Ragi or am against him. My problem is with the way this is all being played out by both partied as well as by the media. I personally bleieve that we should professionals look at both the videos that Ragi will provide as well as Lamba and find out which one is doctored. If Lamba has in fact doctored the videos or the audio evidence, then he is in the wrong and should be punished for an attempt to deceive the Sikh Population as well as the Akal Takhat. The way the Jathedars have handled not only the Ragi debacle but also Kala-afgana, Chicago Baba, those in the Haryana Gurdwara Prabandakh Committee situation, and many others, is despicable and outrageously stupid. Every other day there ar new media releases and in the end, either something stupid and injust will be done when Ragi is presented at the Akal Takhat or nothing will be done at all and only another date will set to meet.

Thanks for once again in yet another thread misunderstanding the complexities of this issue which has been raging since 1902, and which has reached a crescendo in the past year or so.

Mis-steps by individual Jathedars and their chameleon-like natures have left many of the rest of us wondering what will happen to our core belief that Guru Gobind Singh sealed the Adi Granth and declared it Guru.


Here is something to think about. Professor Darshan Ragi is not the one who is going against the flow of common belief -- i.e., that Guru Granth is our only Guru. That "Dasam Granth" is not Guru. But Professor Darshan Singh is the one we should compare to the persecuted philosophers. Certainly the Jathedars are not among the persecuted. Can you see the contradictions in your own depiction? The one who is a champion for a core belief of Sikhism is the one who is being persecuted. The persecutors are hardly proponents of this core Sikh belief. Or shall I say they have let it be hi-jacked?

 

[spnadmin]

BTW, How is the weather in Chicago?

 

[vikram9274]

ma'am you have misinterpreted my comment once again. My point was that Ragi is the one being persecuted. I was comparing Ragi to Gailileo who was persecuted for his views that the earth revolved around the sun. My point was that when one goes against the views of "leaders" or those who are at top, attempts are made to shut him up. Ragi is making it so these Leaders views are being challenged and more work is being created for them, which they do not like. I was criticizing the jathedars and their mishandling of the issue just like you stated. I don't particularly care much for Ragi's views or of those who oppose him, just the way this whole thing has been mishandled and become a debacle.

The way the Jathedars have handled not only the Ragi debacle but also Kala-afgana, Chicago Baba, those in the Haryana Gurdwara Prabandakh Committee situation, and many others, is despicable and outrageously stupid.

The weather is okay. It's getting pretty cold. We're expecting to see the first snow of the season either by the end of this week or sometime next week.

 

[spnadmin]

Thank you for your clarification...

 

[vikram9274]

ofcourse ma'am. See, my belief is that we need to stop fighting amongst ourselves. We are in the top ten religions of the world as far as followers go. I jsut believe that rather than spending our time arguing and bickering amongst ourselves, we should expand our religion and deal with the 100's of problems eating at it. The truth is that the youth in punjab have started taking drugs and cutting their hair. And abroad, it is the same.

1) We need to do parchar of Sikhi and I believe that corruption in the religion and negativity (corruption, scandals, Fake Baba's, greedy leaders) just make the youth want to run from Sikhi.

2) After 9/11, we have a chance to differentiate ourselves from other religions and educate and spread information about our religion. We need to capitalize on this.

3) The Jathedars need to stop making trips abroad and take care of business. They just sit around all day and visit functions or go abroad. Just to get together, they make dates months from when complaints are filed. This is their job, their duty. I think they should be taking care of panthic matters daily and in a swift manner. I see laziness on their part and an inconsistency on policy.

4) A movement to separate politics from Religion. A movement towards making sure that no one in a position of authority has any ties to any certain sect or political party. This is perhaps the most important issue but at the same time, the hardest to fix. Political ties, fake Sants and sects provide money and greed is at the heart of these leaders.

5) These jathedars have so much infighting amongst themselves that it is incomprehensible to expect them to sort out panthic issues. We need to make it clear that they represent the religion first and that they should make decisions that are best for the panth and the religion as a whole rather than themselves or their respective Takhats.

These are just some core issues among many others, but I think these are at the heart of the problems in our religion. I believe that we need to clean from the inside out. Clean the leadership, instruct the youth, educate people about our religion. We spend so much time fighting among ourselves and pointing fingers at particular organizations that we have left our panth in ruins. We must construct a strong base and build on that. Then we can deal with all the other issues. This is easier said than done, and I understand that. But we must attempt to make progress, even if it is in baby steps

 

[harbansj24]

vikram9274 ji,

What you have said, I think is in complete alignment with many others in the forum have been passionately being saying for some time .

 

[vikram9274]

I just don't understand why no change is made. If the Sikh people have been saying these things, then changes should be made. Media should push these changes as well but instead they just fuel the controversy and say that they sell good, panthic news. I will go out on a limb and say that if things continue the way they are, we will see our panth fall. There will always be Sikhs but corruption, greed, phony leaders, fake babas, and political influences will ruin the future generations belief in Sikhi. I myself have seen this happen time and time again. I used to visit the Chicago Babas dera every now and then and have seen children doing kirtan their and when his negativity and womanizing was revealed and he became a psycho and started stopping people from coming to the gurdwara, they stopped doing kirtan and cut their hair. When I myself confronted him about why he is stopping people from coming to the gurdwara, he told me to stop coming (which I did). These children question our leaders and phony sants. This is already happening not only abroad but in Punjab. There are already so many kids who are going astray, and all this will only push them away ****her. I'm just apalled that ourl eaders spend time going abroad and attending functions instead of addressing the thousands of issues eating away at our panth. But then again, it shouldn't surprise me, this has been going on in our religion for a long time now and it will be our downfall.

 

[spnadmin]

There are already 2 threads about the Chicagowale Baba. Please do not divert the thread and stay on topic. Future comments about the Chicago baba should be posted on the appropriate threads, or a new thread should be started. Thank you, Narayanjot Kaur