Grammer / Vyakarn Gur Gur-oh Guru / ਗੁਰ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੂ

[spnadmin]

Bravo Prakash S. Bagga!

You did find an example of gur in the plural

ਵਾਇਨਿ ਚੇਲੇ ਨਚਨਿ ਗੁਰ ॥ वाइनि चेले नचनि गुर ॥ vā▫in cẖele nacẖan gur. The disciples play the music, and the gurus dance.
ਪੈਰ ਹਲਾਇਨਿ ਫੇਰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਸਿਰ ॥ पैर हलाइनि फेरन्हि सिर ॥ Pair halā▫in ferniĥ sir. They move their feet and roll their heads.

Let's see if we can find more! Also need to know which gurus these are, and whether Sanskrit will help us with the grammar.

 

[spnadmin]

Ishna ji

I identify with the predicament. Have given up searching in English unless I want to find different Punjabi words for the same English word. It is faster than a dictionary. But searching the granth for tuks, now I just use the Punjabi in Gurmukhi font because it is more reliable. You are right. You never know what liberties the translator has taken with arrangements of words.

Ambarsaria ji has done some very careful searching using Dr. Thind's glossary of gurbani words. You can read the results at this link http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurbani-grammar-vyakaran/39462-words-gur-sri-guru-granth-sahib.html

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Here is a chart showing Plural words as per Punjabi Grammar
Punjabi Plural

Learning the Punjabi Plural is very important because its structure is used in every day conversation. The more you master it the more you get closer to mastering the Punjabi language. But first we need to know what the role of Plural is in the structure of the grammar in Punjabi.
Punjabi Plurals are grammatical numbers, typically referring to more than one of the referent in the real world. In the English language, singular and plural are the only grammatical numbers. Here are some examples:
<TABLE class=ver-zebra summary="Punjabi Plural"><COLGROUP><COL class=vzebra-odd><COL class=vzebra-even><COL class=vzebra-odd><COL class=vzebra-even></COLGROUP><THEAD><TR><TH class=vzebra-comedy scope=col>English Plural</TH><TH class=vzebra-adventure scope=col>Punjabi Plural</TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR><TD>Plural</TD><TD>ਬਹੁਵਚਨ, ਇੱਕ ਤੇਂ ਵੱਧ</TD></TR><TR><TD>my book</TD><TD>ਮੇਰੀ ਪੁਸਤਕ</TD></TR><TR><TD>my books</TD><TD>ਮੇਰੀ ਪੁਸਤਕਾਂ</TD></TR><TR><TD>our daughter</TD><TD>ਸਾਡੀ ਕੁੜੀ</TD></TR><TR><TD>our daughters</TD><TD>ਸਾਡੀ ਕੁੜੀਆਂ</TD></TR><TR><TD>I'm cold</TD><TD>ਮੈਨੂੰ ਠੰਢ ਲਗਦੀ ਹੈ</TD></TR><TR><TD>we're cold</TD><TD>ਸਾਨੂੰ ਠੰਢ ਲਗਦੀ ਹੈ</TD></TR><TR><TD>his chickens</TD><TD>ਉਸਦਾ ਕੁੱਕੜ</TD></TR><TR><TD>their chicken</TD><TD>ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਕੁੱਕੜ
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

One can see an obvious difference in Punjabi Grammar and Gurbanee Grammar.

In Punjabi Grammar the singular word is converted to plural word with change in word
itself
whereas in Gurbanee Grammar a word is Singular or Plural is based on use of
matra of Aukad under last letter of the word being there or not.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[spnadmin]

prakash s. bagga ji

Please do not post anything like the grammar chart again. It is very misleading and you contradict yourself.

1. The formation of plurals with Punjabi words is more complicated that what you have posted here. There are 3 different declensions for Punjabi noun words, and each declension has at least two varieties/versions for forming the plural. Then there are some loan or borrowed words that are not declined.

2. The next thing you say is: In Punjabi Grammar the singular word is converted to plural word with change in word itself. But we have just been discussing for days now that "gur" ਗੁਰ does not change. The singular and plural look exactly the same.

3. Final thing you say is:whereas in Gurbanee Grammar a word is Singular or Plural is based on use of matra of Aukad under last letter of the word being there or not. Is this true? Really, is this true?

Remember you said that GurU was singular and Gur was plural, all based on the "aukad" placement. Problem is that Gur is singular .... most of the time, maybe all of the time minus 4 according to Ishna ji ...in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

I think the reason why so many threads are peppered with repeated statements like this is that moderators just became exhausted and gave up.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Paraksh Ji..
Who says...SADDEE KURREEAN ? The correct word is SADDEEAN kurrean..MERIAAN kitabaan, pustakaan.. the PLURAL of saddee is saddeean..meri-merian..

Perhaps you ahve confused with HINDI/SANSKRIT...because i do notice that spoken Hindi is different...In spoken Hindi its Mein GUSSAH ho gayah..whereas in PUNJABI it would be Mein GUSSEH Ho giayh....Hindi would say..Mein LUDHIAN giyah...Punjabi woudl be Mein LUDHIANEH Giyah....Kapurthaleh (not Kapurtahala)...and in words where the Laam is NOT applicable..then there is a NUU added...Dlhi NU..Jalnadhar NU..Kuala Lumpur NU..malaysia NU..Hindi speakers drop the NU also.

Now a days with the preponderance of HINDI TV SERIALS..where even the so called PUNJABI speakers are deliberately SCRIPTED to speak HINDI with a Punjabi accent..PUNJABI is being CORRUPTED DELIBERATELY !!! I found your examples of saddee/meri + plural pointing in this direction ???..because I have heard such being spoken in some serials i watch on satelite TV...and often wondered how could the script writer be so ignorant becasue no Punjabi will speak like that...in a written exam the marks would be deducted...fro writing saddee KURRIAN !!

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

GIYANI JARNAIL SINGH Ji,
With due regards,
It would be nice of your good self if I am guided about How Singular and Plural words
are depicted in Punjabi Grammar and How these are applicble in Gurbanee understanding.
I find your goodself expert in this as you are currently teaching this subject.
I Would like to learn this .

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

aptly said..ONE Swallow doesnt a Summer make...Rules have EXCEPTIONS...so we must go with the VAST MAJORITY and not nick pick...

ਵਾਇਨਿ ਚੇਲੇ ਨਚਨਿ ਗੁਰ .... the Give away is the NachiN...thats a PLURAL qualifier...one Guru would be Nacheh !!..so CONTEXT makes it clear...no need to go looking for the easter egg Aunkadd..its superflous in this CONTEXT...

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

aptly said..ONE Swallow doesnt a Summer make...Rules have EXCEPTIONS...so we must go with the VAST MAJORITY and not nick pick...

ਵਾਇਨਿ ਚੇਲੇ ਨਚਨਿ ਗੁਰ .... the Give away is the NachiN...thats a PLURAL qualifier...one Guru would be Nacheh !!..so CONTEXT makes it clear...no need to go looking for the easter egg Aunkadd..its superflous in this CONTEXT...

But sometimes One is just enough to make a major chage.I think just ONE is very important for us. isnt it.
I think one is required to be sincere in accepting the fact then only one can approach near the truth otherwise cirlcling is already there.

It would be better one should sincerly refer to a chart given in Gurbanee Viyakaran Book by Prof Sahib Singh ji and see on pp 62.
Apply this chart to the word and see how a particular word is Singular or Plural
If one does not accept or agree to this chart then the matter can be fully
closed for any further deliberations.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

Here is an example where Gur is used both singular and plural:

<TABLE cellSpacing=5><TBODY><TR><TD>ਛਿਅ ਘਰ, ਛਿਅ ਗੁਰ; ਛਿਅ ਉਪਦੇਸ ॥

There are six schools of philosophy, six teachers, and six sets of teachings.


</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਏਕੋ, ਵੇਸ ਅਨੇਕ ॥੧॥

But the Teacher of teachers is the One, who appears in so many forms.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Here is an example where Gur is used both singular and plural:

<TABLE cellSpacing=5><TBODY><TR><TD>ਛਿਅ ਘਰ, ਛਿਅ ਗੁਰ; ਛਿਅ ਉਪਦੇਸ ॥

There are six schools of philosophy, six teachers, and six sets of teachings.




</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਏਕੋ, ਵੇਸ ਅਨੇਕ ॥੧॥

If gur is both singular and plural then the matra is not important to understand. Your commentary has nothing to do with rules of grammar. Deleted. Please go to the thread on Words with Guru. Thank you, spnadmin

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurbani-grammar-vyakaran/39462-words-gur-sri-guru-granth-sahib.html

Truth usually hurts and it is not that easy to face the Truth from Gurbanee
Prakash.S.Bagga
</TR></TBODY>

 

[spnadmin]

No need to go looking for the easter egg Aunkadd..its superflous in this CONTEXT... (by Gyani ji)

Well put!

Also, it looks as if my questions have some people really searching the Guru Granth, for hours, it seems. That is a great outcome imho. To steep our brains in panna after panna.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Prakash.s.Bagga ji thanks for your post and attempt at clarification. As you will see below your thesis does not prove itself and attempts to make multiple creators out of one creator does not succeed for the three words that have been your focus. Namely, ਗੁਰ– ਗੁਰੁ– ਗੁਰੂ. What you will find is that the matra/accents “ ੁ ੂ” are used for meaning of the words and not for changing singularity/plurality. Singularity and plurality is determined through associative words linked enjoined to these words, before these words or after these words.

<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="mso-cellspacing:1.5pt" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <thead> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70">

English Plural​

</td> <td style="width:116.65pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="156">

Punjabi Plural​

</td> <td style="width:178.5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="238">

Assessment​

</td> <td style="width:67.45pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="90">
</td> </tr> </thead> <tbody><tr style="mso-yfti-irow:1"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70"> Plural
</td> <td padma_font_family_property="tohama,verdana,geneva,lucida,'lucida grande',arial,helvetica,sans-serif" style="width:116.65pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="156"> ਬਹੁਵਚਨ, ਇੱਕ ਤੇਂ ਵੱਧ
</td> <td style="width:178.5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="238">
</td> <td style="width:67.45pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="90">
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:2"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70"> my book
</td> <td style="width:116.65pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="156"> ਮੇਰੀ ਪੁਸਤਕ
</td> <td style="width:178.5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="238">
</td> <td style="width:67.45pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="90">
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:3"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70"> my books
</td> <td style="width:116.65pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="156"> ਮੇਰੀ ਪੁਸਤਕਾਂ
</td> <td style="width:178.5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="238"> ਮੇਰੀਆਂ ਪੁਸਤਕਾਂ
</td> <td style="width:67.45pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="90">
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:4"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70"> our daughter
</td> <td style="width:116.65pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="156"> ਸਾਡੀ ਕੁੜੀ
</td> <td style="width:178.5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="238">
</td> <td style="width:67.45pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="90">
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:5"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70"> our daughters
</td> <td style="width:116.65pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="156"> ਸਾਡੀ ਕੁੜੀਆਂ
</td> <td style="width:178.5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="238"> ਸਾਡੀਆਂ ਕੁੜੀਆਂ
</td> <td style="width:67.45pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="90">
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:6"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70"> I'm cold
</td> <td style="width:116.65pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="156"> ਮੈਨੂੰ ਠੰਢ ਲਗਦੀ ਹੈ
</td> <td style="width:178.5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="238">
</td> <td style="width:67.45pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="90">
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:7"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70"> we're cold
</td> <td style="width:116.65pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="156"> ਸਾਨੂੰ ਠੰਢ ਲਗਦੀ ਹੈ
</td> <td style="width:178.5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="238">
</td> <td style="width:67.45pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="90">
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:8"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70"> his chickens
</td> <td style="width:116.65pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="156"> ਉਸਦਾ ਕੁੱਕੜ
</td> <td style="width:178.5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="238">
</td> <td style="width:67.45pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="90">
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:9;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70"> their chicken
</td> <td style="width:116.65pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="156"> ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਕੁੱਕੜ
</td> <td padma_font_family_property="tohama,verdana,geneva,lucida,'lucida grande',arial,helvetica,sans-serif" style="width:178.5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="238"> ਕੁੱਕੜ is also singular and plural
- ਇੱਕ ਕੁੱਕੜ (one {censored}erel)
- ਦਸ ਕੁੱਕੜ (ten {censored}erels)
ਕੁੱਕੜ is also modifiable plural as ਕੁੱਕੜਾਂ
- ਕੁੱਕੜ ਦਾ ਘਰ (Den of the {censored}erel)
- ਕੁੱਕੜਾਂ ਦਾ ਘਰ (Den of the {censored}erels)
</td> <td style="width:67.45pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top" width="90">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Took out some language that taunted another forum member. The point was made without it. spnadmin

Let us look at some example of words in contest that Prakash.s.bagga ji has been raising for years or since he joined spn.

<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="mso-cellspacing:1.5pt" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <thead> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70">

English Plural​

</td> <td style="width:115.9pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="155">

Punjabi Plural​

</td> </tr> </thead> <tbody><tr style="mso-yfti-irow:1"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70"> Plural
</td> <td padma_font_family_property="tohama,verdana,geneva,lucida,'lucida grande',arial,helvetica,sans-serif" style="width:115.9pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="155"> ਬਹੁਵਚਨ, ਇੱਕ ਤੇਂ ਵੱਧ
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:2"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70"> One creator
</td> <td style="width:115.9pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="155"> ਇੱਕ ਗੁਰ
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:3"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70"> Ten creators
</td> <td padma_font_family_property="tohama,verdana,geneva,lucida,'lucida grande',arial,helvetica,sans-serif" style="width:115.9pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="155"> ਦਸ ਗੁਰ (No relevance in Sikhism)
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:4"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70"> One Guru
</td> <td style="width:115.9pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="155"> ਇੱਕ ਗੁਰੂ
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:5"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70"> Ten Gurus
</td> <td style="width:115.9pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="155"> ਦਸ ਗੁਰੂ
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:6"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70"> Calling one creator (Hey creator)
</td> <td style="width:115.9pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="155"> ਗੁਰੁ (ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ, ਗੁਰੂ ਨੂੰ, ਗੁਰੂ ਤੌਂ, ਗੁਰੂ ਹੀ, ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ )
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:7;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes"> <td style="width:52.85pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="70"> Calling ten creators (All creators)
</td> <td style="width:115.9pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="155"> ਸਾਰੇ ਗੁਰੋ
Note: The plural form not in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
ਗੁਰ, ਗੁਰੂ, ਗੁਰੁ are not result of using accents (ੁੂ) to convey singular to plural. The associated modifying word is what defines the singularity or plurality.

• ਗੁਰ ਸਿਖ
  • Addressing one Guru’s/creator’s Sikh
  • One creator and one Sikh
• ਗੁਰ ਸਿਖੋ
  • Addressing many Guru’s/creator’s Sikh
  • One creator’s many Sikhs

Rest of prakash.s.bagga ji’s post I don’t comment on as it is spamming since virtually same sentences he has repeated in tens of posts and all his explanations, extrapolations, conjectures and expounding on these sentences have not stood scrutiny or test of time.

Sat Sri Akal.
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[spnadmin]

prakash s bagga ji

I have deleted your comment because you have been warned many times about the misleading information that you have been posting. If you do not want to receive private messages, then you can go to your profile and turn off private messages so that you do not receive any. Look under the email settings to do that.

Go to the SPN home page. Then find the section on the left of the page "Settings and Options." Then select the link "Edit Options." You will be sent to a page where you can change your email preferences. Uncheck "Enable Private Messages." If you do want to keep private messages but do not want to receive it from some people, just delete the message when it arrives in your inbox.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

SPNADMIN Ji,
I would only feel justice being done by deleting the post of Mr Ambarsaria Ji as an examinar. Otherwise I woulkd consider as a conspiracy .
It is not going to affect me at all .This may affect your reputation as unbiased
administrator.
Such is an accepetable behaviour from any Gursikh. I look forward to your
response in the stance.

Good bye and Gur Fateh

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[spnadmin]

prakash s bagga ji


I understand the point you are making. What I have done is deleted some of forum member Ambarsaria ji's comments. The deletions are in red. The grammatical information is left as he posted it. Also remaining is his explanation of why grammar is correct or incorrect. Deleted is are the personal comments.

Your comments have been deleted because you have been asked time and time again to stop posting incorrect information. You became angry because someone has corrected what is incorrect.

On balance, editing Ambarsaria's remarks and removing yours completely is objective. I also do not feel required to be "un-biased" when forum warnings are ignored, when spamming is going on, or when misleading information is posted.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

SPNADMIN Ji,
Thanks,

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

Prakash.S.Bagga ji I mean no pain or disrespect but want to state things in pretty black and white style. Sometimes it may appear hurtful or be hurtful but that is not the purpose. If it hurt you I apologize.

As you may notice you do taunting which you may in your heart believe is justified.

Truth usually hurts and it is not that easy to face the Truth from Gurbanee
Prakash.S.Bagga

But for the person or interacting spn members, your statement above can be paraphrased into “ ... you fools don’t understand or want to understand as it is a bitter pill to swallow”. Such statements innocuous as these appear are quite insidious and demeaning to multiple people you address these to.

Prakash.S.Bagga ji you must realize that I have nothing personal against you. You are a worldly, gurbani knowledge wise a great and successful person from what I know. I respect you for that.

The issue is that your complete focus on "Plural Creator" in the ਗੁਰ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੂ as a fundamental contradiction of ੴ /Ik▫oaʼnkār.

ੴ /Ik▫oaʼnkār you again tried to put complementing the ਗੁਰ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੂ thesis. One can visit the following thread for that,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/37225-sri-guru-granth-sahib-review-ik.html

In the following there is a discussion of gender and again an attempt to personify the infinite (unknown) as espoused in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/37654-creator-god-sri-guru-granth-sahib-2.html

Yes the style of poetry is acting as a female spouse (the writers) to the creator (male - groom). This however does not extend into a declaration of reality of gender of the creator or assignment of one or even dialog about one.

This fundamental approach driven by ways to define the one creator is flawed. You, others or I cannot put the creator in a blue or pink box or multiple boxes. Our Guru ji did not try to do it and I am sure they were more capable of doing so if it was possible. This is against the teaching in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and even minimal understanding of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji should guide us to not do so.

Complicating Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji understanding is a clear way to pull people away from it. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji from how I read, how Prof. Sahib Singh ji and others have tried to explain is in people’s language, Punjabi. After the fact books even from the most eminent people cannot form a basis to retroactively create or declare rules followed by Guru ji, Bhagat Kabir ji, Baba Farid ji, and all others. Yes we can use these to better understand but it all starts with Punjabi as a whole including Punjabi Grammar. We cannot and must not declare that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was not understood by anyone before Prof. Sahib Singh ji’s Vyakaran or Talwara ji or others books came out. We need to take all as a balance set of tools that is if we need to use these beyond our basic Punjabi education.

Let us review some shabads together as you have very sharp mind to quickly find related shabads in discussion topics and I have enjoyed your contributions in this regard always.

Sat Sri Akal.

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[prakash.s.bagga]

AMBARSARIA Ji,
I thank you for your gesture.
I dont think any one should have anything as personal when we know each other only thru the views.Similarly I did not ever had any disrespectful feeling about you.
I bellieve here every one as well matured.

The relationship between two Gursikhs should result in happiness for both.ONe can learn from a Quote from Gurbanee as
AYE MIL GURSIKH AYE MIL TOO MERE GUR KE PIYARE

So every Gursikh should have such feelings for every other Gursikh.

I think you should appreciate a distinct difference in our understanding of Gurbanee.
My understanding is purely based on the concept of Gur JoTi only.And I find a wide gap in our basic understandings even A of Gurbanee.
Therefore my views are limited to a very small domain of fundametal concepts
which many would differ as there is no previous evidence available to corroborate
what is presented.
In fact I strongly believe you could/can act as strenth for my weknesses which unfortunalely did not happen so.

So under these circumstances if still you feel I may be of some little use ful to my
fellow Gursikhs I would certaly look forward to your guidance and proceed accordingly.
Looking forward to your valuable cooperation ,
with best wishes
Prakash.s.Bagga