Gurbani Being Misinterpreted By Sahil Ji

[simpy]

Respected Veer Sahil Ji,

Endless thanks to you for being with us

GuruFateh..

Nice comment by every one..
I have read all comments except rosethorne .. as u r saying that comment is important..I will read that also..
May GOD open my/urs eyes.. jidi vi band he.. odi hi khole.. agar mein galt ha te meri.. nahi te twadi...

anyways Veer Sahil Ji,

sadi eyes di fikar tusi na karo, Saada Guru Sahib bahut khyaal rakhdey han, tusi apni socho.

kher surinder jee behas karan naal kuch nahi hona...
eh poison nahi he.. he gurubani vich likhya rasta.. ki gurbani vich 10th door baare nahi likhya.???? padna jad tak mein jawaab deva.. oste vi koi comment do.. ki o vi misintrepretation he..
he hehe

main ta behas khatam karn di gall kar rahi si, i even ignored you for a good while, you are the one who wanted this behas.

asi padyaa hai tahi ta tuhanu keh rahe haan, ki ninda na karo Guru Sahib Di.(what you doing is Saadh/Sant/Guru di Ninda- and i guess you must know what happens to a person who does this)
10th door da sanu pataa vi hai, Guru di bari kirpa hai. Tusi apni fikar karo, Veer Mere you are lost big time.
Eh marg khandeydhaar hai, jor naal nahi- nirmalta, pavittar pyaar, sat(sach di pahchaan), Santokh and Dayaa naal is da pataa chaldaa hai,

telling others to leave their True path-is haumaey, cannot get anywhere by doing so. you have no clue of a true Guru....

AND
I have not gone anywhere to take answer.. but I have software-release to customers thats why m taking time..
SO I WILL ANSWER AFTER THAT.

Gurufateh

Veer Sahil Ji,

while you are looking for the answers i have another one for you.

you were asking in one of your posts-

No doubts, surinder behan in other thread said very well, that u must know gurumukhi very well to describe the things u want to,
and I said again n again, I accept n agree that u must have read SGGS more than me, thats why I always say that u read gurubani n find out, but behan just emphasise on the things I told about GOD(seeing)...
KABIR JI VERY WELL SAID,
TERA MERA MANUVA KAISE EK HOE RE,
TU KAHE HE KAGAAZ LEKHI, MEIN KAHU HU AKHIN DEKHI..
so sister i want to say, that what ever m saying i have seen, not only read, ya i have read, then i come to know why gurubani is saying this lines...

Dhan Dhan Bhagat Kabir naal brabari karde ho veer ji, te gurbani di vyakhayaa galat paye karde ho.

See gurubani explains so much things::: I will just list out some:::
1>. Gurubani is for the people, who are already initiated , SGGS guides all of us, if u have guru then how to follow on, what is value of GURU,

2>. Importance of human body, kirtan, satsang.
3>, What actual SUKH is, though SGGS also says that for SUKH u have to go for NAAM-SIMRAN... WHAT IS RELIGION, WHAT IS BHAKTI
4>. Reading of scriptures, SGGS tells that scriptures are to read, but not only to read, if u stick only to read then it will nt give u anything.
5>. IT tells that GURU is needed, without guru one cannot reach his destiny(GOD),
BIN GURU KINNE NA PAYA, BIN GURU KINE NA PAYA.
6>. IT tells what FAKE GURUS r, hw FAKE/greedy so called renderers fo RELIGION decieve us.
7>. IT tells what TRUE GURU is, what happens when a true guru comes to our life. HE SHOW US GOD within us,

n many more things about great bhagats, that things are to inspire us on the "panth '(PATH).

Sahil Veer- FYI-

Dhan Dhan Sache Paatshah Dhan Guru Raam Das Ji De Bachan Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji De Panna # 982

rwm gur srin pRBU rKvwry ]
ijau kuMcru qdUAY pkir clwieE kir aUpru kiF insqwry ]1] rhwau ]
pRB ky syvk bhuqu Aiq nIky min srDw kir hir Dwry ]
myry pRiB srDw Bgiq min BwvY jn kI pYj svwry ]1]
hir hir syvku syvw lwgY sBu dyKY bRhm pswry ]
eyku purKu ieku ndrI AwvY sB eykw ndir inhwry ]2]
hir pRBu Twkuru rivAw sB TweI sBu cyrI jgqu smwry ]
Awip dieAwlu dieAw dwnu dyvY ivic pwQr kIry kwry ]3]
AMqir vwsu bhuqu muskweI BRim BUlw imrgu isM|Hwry ]
bnu bnu FUiF FUiF iPir QwkI guir pUrY Gir insqwry ]4]
bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ]
guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry ]5]
sBu hY bRhmu bRhmu hY psirAw min bIijAw Kwvwry ]
ijau jn cMdRhWsu duiKAw iDRstbuDI Apunw Gru lUkI jwry ]6]
pRB kau jnu AMqir ird locY pRB jn ky sws inhwry ]
ik®pw ik®pw kir Bgiq idRVwey jn pICY jgu insqwry ]7]
Awpn Awip Awip pRBu Twkuru pRBu Awpy isRsit svwry ]
jn nwnk Awpy Awip sBu vrqY kir ik®pw Awip insqwry ]8]4]

for you Sahil Ji, as you cannot understand Gurmukhi-

AMg 982
ang 982
Page 982

nt mhlw 4 ]
nutt mehulaa 4
Nat, Fourth Mehl:

rwm gur srin pRBU rKvwry ]
raam gur suran prubhoo rukhuvaarae
In the Sanctuary of the Guru, the Lord God saves and protects us,

ijau kuMcru qdUAY pkir clwieE kir aUpru kiF insqwry ]1] rhwau ]
jio kunchur thudhooai pukar chulaaeiou kar oopur kat nisuthaarae
as He protected the elephant, when the crocodile seized it and pulled it into the water; He lifted him up and pulled him out. ||1||Pause||

pRB ky syvk bhuqu Aiq nIky min srDw kir hir Dwry ]
prubh kae saevuk buhuth ath neekae man surudhaa kar har dhaarae
God's servants are sublime and exalted; they enshrine faith for Him in their minds.

myry pRiB srDw Bgiq min BwvY jn kI pYj svwry ]1]
maerae prabh surudhaa bhugath man bhaavai jun kee paij suvaarae
Faith and devotion are pleasing to my God's Mind; He saves the honor of His humble servants. ||1||

hir hir syvku syvw lwgY sBu dyKY bRhm pswry ]
har har saevuk saevaa laagai subh dhaekhai brehum pusaarae
The servant of the Lord, Har, Har, is committed to His service; He sees God pervading the entire expanse of the universe.

eyku purKu ieku ndrI AwvY sB eykw ndir inhwry ]2]
eaek purukh eik nudhureeaavai subh eaekaa nudhar nihaarae
He sees the One and only Primal Lord God, who blesses all with His Glance of Grace. ||2||

hir pRBu Twkuru rivAw sB TweI sBu cyrI jgqu smwry ]
har prubh thaakur raviaa subh thaaee subh chaeree juguth sumaarae
God, our Lord and Master, is permeating and pervading all places; He takes care of the whole world as His slave.

Awip dieAwlu dieAw dwnu dyvY ivic pwQr kIry kwry ]3]
aap dhaeiaal dhaeiaa dhaan dhaevai vich paathur keerae kaarae
The Merciful Lord Himself mercifully gives His gifts, even to worms in stones. ||3||

AMqir vwsu bhuqu muskweI BRim BUlw imrgu isM|Hwry ]
anthar vaas buhuth musukaaee bhram bhoolaa mirug sinnguaarae
Within the deer is the heavy fragrance of musk, but he is confused and deluded, and he shakes his horns looking for it.

bnu bnu FUiF FUiF iPir QwkI guir pUrY Gir insqwry ]4]
bun bun toot toot fir thaakee gur poorai ghar nisuthaarae
Wandering, rambling and roaming through the forests and woods, I exhausted myself, and then in my own home, the Perfect Guru saved me. ||4||

bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ]
baanee guroo guroo hai baanee vich baanee anmrith saarae
The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained.

guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry ]5]
gur baanee kehai saevuk jun maanai puruthakh guroo nisuthaarae
If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him. ||5||

sBu hY bRhmu bRhmu hY psirAw min bIijAw Kwvwry ]
subh hai brehum brehum hai pusariaa man beejiaa khaavaarae
All is God, and God is the whole expanse; man eats what he has planted.

ijau jn cMdRhWsu duiKAw iDRstbuDI Apunw Gru lUkI jwry ]6]
jio jun chundhrehaas dhukhiaa dhrisuttubudhee apunaa ghur lookee jaarae
When Dhrishtabudhi tormented the humble devotee Chandrahaans, he only set his own house on fire. ||6||

pRB kau jnu AMqir ird locY pRB jn ky sws inhwry ]
prubh ko jun anthar ridh lochai prubh jun kae saas nihaarae
God's humble servant longs for Him within his heart; God watches over each breath of His humble servant.

ik®pw ik®pw kir Bgiq idRVwey jn pICY jgu insqwry ]7]
kirupaa kirupaa kar bhugath dhrirraaeae jun peeshai jug nisuthaarae
Mercifully, mercifully, He implants devotion within his humble servant; for his sake, God saves the whole world. ||7||

Awpn Awip Awip pRBu Twkuru pRBu Awpy isRsit svwry ]
aapun aap aap prubh thaakur prubh aapae srisatt suvaarae
God, our Lord and Master, is Himself by Himself; God Himself embellishes the universe.

jn nwnk Awpy Awip sBu vrqY kir ik®pw Awip insqwry ]8]4]
jun naanuk aapaeaap subh vuruthai kar kirupaaaap nisuthaarae
O servant Nanak, He Himself is all-pervading; in His Mercy, He Himself emancipates all. ||8||4||



i know you are not going to believe this either, but anyways i had to bring it up.

Read Stanza # 5. Dhan Guru Raam Das Paatshah says- Bani Guru Hai, Guru Bani Hai and whosoever humbly believes Bani, Bani(GURU) saves that person.
There is no difference in Guru or Guru's Bani. Guru is unlimited. Guru is already mearged with SuperSelf- that's why his words contain AMBROSIAL NECTAAR-AMRIT. AND AMRIT KADI BEHA NAHI HUNDAA....
where are you lost my veer, you have no clue what you are talking about.

and you are actually saying this-

But i have found a serious issue here is that, our surinder behan is not at all interested in knowing .. what way guru-sahiban wants to tell us,

yes i am not interested in knowing that is not needed. if you had something that was worth considering- i might have.
Instead you are rejecting the ideas represented in Bani
and same you is telling others to Paro Gurbani
and same you is telling others-kite parde hi na reho Gurbani
and same you is twisting the meaning of Dhan Dhan Gurbani Lines
Lots of your posts Do NOT make any sense at all
what you want me to know?????



your question-

I would ask again, where it is written that we dont need guru, in gurubani only..

does not make any sense, what are you asking???? it is confusing

GURUBANI doesnt says this defination of sikh..

WHERE IT IS WRITTEN THAT WE SHOULD FOLLOW ONLY SGGS AS GURU..

GURUBANI IS HERE FOR ENLIGHTEN US. TO LEAD US TO TRUE GURU /LIVING GURU,

U R ACTUALLY DISTORTED,

Gurbani tells us the importance of Guru and it proves the POINT that GURBANI IS GURU.

what else do we need to know from you?????

ALSO TELL ME WHERE IT IS WRITTEN THAT YOU CANNOT HAVE GURBANI AS YOUR GURU-


GURU SAHIB NE TA BANI NU 'NIRANKAAR' KEHA HAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:roll:

ki tuhada guru Nirankaar to vi uppar hai

forgive me please

 

[rosethorne]

Dear surinderji, i respect you and admire you, and salute to you. Great r u.

 

[simpy]

Waheguru Aap Karan Kravan Vaala me neech is nothing

 

[rosethorne]

Waheguru Aap Karan Kravan Vaala me neech is nothing

Dear surinderji, Neech oh hi keh sakda hai jo sab te ooch ho. U r great. May God give you all the real wealths of life. God Bless you.

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Bhainji Surinder Kaur Cheema Ji,

Thank you again for an amazing post. I will read it over and over for the many powerful truths you are sharing with us from Guru's Bani.

 

[rosethorne]

.Sorry double post

 

[rosethorne]

GuruFateh..

Nice comment by every one..
I have read all comments except rosethorne .. as u r saying that comment is important..I will read that also..
May GOD open my/urs eyes.. jidi vi band he.. odi hi khole.. agar mein galt ha te meri.. nahi te twadi...

kher surinder jee behas karan naal kuch nahi hona...
eh poison nahi he.. he gurubani vich likhya rasta.. ki gurbani vich 10th door baare nahi likhya.???? padna jad tak mein jawaab deva.. oste vi koi comment do.. ki o vi misintrepretation he..
he hehe


AND
I have not gone anywhere to take answer.. but I have software-release to customers thats why m taking time..
SO I WILL ANSWER AFTER THAT.

Gurufateh

Dear Gursikhs, I have seen Sahilji Betraying Gurbani And Gursikhs at same time he use to write SGGS to mainu akal mili. Too many wrong doers use Gurbani as their shelter. Because it is a sentimental issue to Gursikhs. But as a Gursikh nobody can hear this. If any body wants any knowledge then too many sites are there to share. But annoying somebody or Gurbani is simply unbearable to a Gursikh. And in my view Time has come to make an end to it for Saahilji. It is time to open your eyes Saahilji second time in this topic, I told you about why didn't it is mentioned in SGGS Maharaj ji about our next Guru before in this topic.
I have copied this message below from Dasam Dvar - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

Kindly Saahilji Search for truth here, not in fake truths of your life.

DASAM DVAR (Sanskrit Dasamadvara), literally meaning "tenth gate", has been refered to in SGGS signifying the door to enlightenment and vision being only through NAAM DAAN & ISHNAAN.
This term originate from the Hathayogic system, where it is also known as brahmrandhra, moksadvara, mahapatha and madhya marga, the terms frequently used in the esoteric literature of medieval India. Also sometimes written as "Dasam DUara"
It is a term of religious physiology and its significance lies in its being a concept in the framework of soteriological ideology. Nine apertures (navdvaras) opening towards outside the body serve the physical mechanism of human personality but when their energy, normally being wasted, is consciously channelized towards the self, the tenth gate or the dasamdvar opens inside the body and renders a hyper-physical service by taking the seeker beyond the bondage of embodied existence.
The human body is endowed with nine doors also called holes or streams. These nine are: two eyes, two ears, two nostrils, mouth, ****, and urethra. All these are vital organs of living organism called human being. The Pali Suttanipata (verse 199. In Khuddak nikaya, vol. 1, p. 297) is perhaps one of the very first Indian texts which mentions the idea of nine ‘holes’ in the body. It is from a philosophically ascetic or Sramanic standpoint that the human body is described in this text as a mass of bones, sinews, flesh, etc. and as a bag for belly, intestines, liver, heart, bladder, lungs, kidneys, blood, bile, etc. “Ever from its nine streams (navahi sotehi) the unclean flows.” The Svetasvatara Upanisad (III. 18) and the Bhagavadgita (V. 13) refer to human body as “a city with nine gates” (nava dvara pure dehi) in which the Self dwells, neither acting nor causing to act. The Katha Upanisad (2.51), however, describes human abode of the Unborn One as “a city with eleven gates” (puram-ekadasa-dvaram). Mystical and soteriological significance of dasam dvar is found in the writings of the siddhas and the sants.
As a matter of fact the history of the idea of dasam dvar begins with the Buddhist Siddhas and we owe its popularity to Natha yogis. The term as well as the concept first appears in the works of Siddhas who flourished during the period between eighth and eleventh centuries. The Siddhas transmitted the theory of dasamdvar as a mystical spiritual gateway to Vaisnava Sants and thence it came to the Sikh [Gurus]]. The process of transmission was direct and natural since the Sants (or Bhagats) and Gurus lived and taught in a society thoroughly acquainted with and influenced by the terms, concepts and precepts of the Siddhas. Although the concept of dasam dvar remained the same, its functional value in theistic theology and socio-devotional methodology of the Sikh Gurus became decidedly different from its original one in the non-theistic ideology and esoteric-ascetic methodology of Buddhist Siddhas and Natha yogis.

In the Buddhist caryapadas or hymns of spiritual practice, the dasama dvara is also called vairocana-dvara, the brilliant gate or the supreme gate. In the texts of the Natha school such as the Siddhasiddhanda paddhati (II. 6), the mouth of sankhini is called the tenth gate (sankhini-bibaram-dasam dvaram). Sankhini is the name of a curved duct (banka nala) through which nectar (soma rasa, maharasa or amrit) passes downwards. This curved duct lies between the moon (candra) below the sahasrara-cakra or thousand-petalled lotus plexus in the cebrum region and the hollow in the palatal region. The Goraksavijaya describes sankhini as a double-mouthed (dvi-mukhia) serpent (sarpini), one mouth above, the other below. The life elixir called amrit or nectar pours down through the mouth of sankhini. This mouth called dasamd var has to be shut up and the quintessence of life, amrit or maharasa has to be conserved by the yogi. The amrit which pours down from the dasam dvar falls down in the fire of the sun (surya) where it is dried up by time (kalagni). The yogi by closing the dasam dvar and preserving the amrit deceives Time (death) and by drinking it himself through cumbersome khecari-mudra he attains immortality. Some other hathayogic texts name susumna nari instead of sankhini. However, all the texts agree that the brahmrandhra or the dasamdvar is the cavity on the roof of the palate and khecari mudra has to be performed for tasting the elixir of the amrit pouring down from it.
The notion of dasam dvar, written as dasam duar, occurs several times in the Guru Granth Sahib. Sikhism is a strictly monotheistic system belief and it must be stated at the outset that according to Sikh view of the dasam dvar, the tenth door opens into the abode of God, the Creator — dasam duara agam apara param purakh ki ghati (GG, 974), and again—nau ghar thape thapanharai dasvai vasa alakh aparai (GG, 1036). This fact distinguishes Sikhism from the non-theistic non-dualistic philosophy of the Siddhas. Second outstanding difference is that Sikhism is predominantly a devotional pathway, relying chiefly on the discipline of bhakti, i.e. loving devotion for the divine; the Siddhas and Nathas, on the other hand, practised Tantra or Hathayoga in which the disciplines of psychology and physiology were fused together. With these differences the notion of dasam duar in Sikhism employs the same terms and symbols as used by Siddhas and Nathas.

The nine doors (nau daryaje) and the tenth door are often mentioned together to show their differences. The unstruck sound is heard at the tenth door when it is freed from the shackles of nine doors in the body—nau darvaje dasvai mukta anahad sabadu vajavania (GG, 110). It is believed that the tenth door is closed by a hard diamond-like door (bajar kapat) which is haumai (self-centredness). This hard and strong door is opened and the darkness of haumai is dispelled by the instruction of the Teacher (Guru). In other words, the tenth door is the door of enlightenment and it opens only when the door consisting of haumai is broken. It is taken for granted in Sikhism that the tenth door is the supreme state of the mind. It is certainly not a physical door; it is that state of purified consciousness in which God is visible and all contacts with physical existence are cut off. It is called a being’s own house (nij-ghar), that is to say, a being’s real nature which is like light (joti sarup). One hears day and night the anahad sabda there when one dwells in one’s own house through the tenth door—nau dar thake dhavatu rahae, dasvai nijghari vasa pae (GG, 124).

At few places in the Gurbani, the term dasam duar has been used to denote ten organs—five sensory organs and five organs of action, i.e. jnanendriyas and karmendriyas. Says Guru Nanak: “Hukami sanjogi gari das duar, panch vasahi mili joti apar”—in the fortress of the body created in his hukam are ten doors. In this fort five subtle elements of sabda (sound), sparsa (touch), rupa (sight), rasa (taste) and grandha (smell) abide having the infinite light of the Lord in them (GG, 152). The amrit which flows at the tenth door is the essence of Divine name (nam ras) according to the Guru; it is not the physical elixir of immortality conceived by the Siddhas, nor is this amrit to be found by awakening kundalini or by practising khecari mudra; it is to be found through the Teacher’s instruction. When the Satguru is encountered then one stops from running (after the nine doors) and obtains the tenth door. Here at this door the immortalizing food (amrit bhojan), the innate sound (sahaj dhuni) is produced—dhavatu thammia satiguri miliai dasva duaru paia; tithai amrit bhojanu sahaj dhuni upajai jitu sabadi jagatu thammi rahaia (GG, 441).

This wholesome spot is not outside the physical frame. The second Guru also refers to the fort (kotu) with nine doors; the tenth door is hidden (gupatu); it is closed by a hard door which can be opened by the key of the Guru’s word (GG, 954). According to Guru Amar Das, Nanak III, he alone is released who conquers his mind and who keeps it free from defilement; arriving at the tenth door, and staying there he understands all the three spheres (GG, 490).

The importance of dasamdvar is of considerable theological interest. Here at the tenth door the anahad sabda (unstruck sound) is heard; here the divine drink of immortality trickles down; and here the devotee meets with the invisible and inaccessible transcendental Brahman who is described by the sages as unutterable (GG, 1002). The devotional theology of Sikhism requires that the gateway of ultimate release can open only by God’s will. The tenth door is closed with the adamantine hard door (bajar kapat) which can be opened duly with the Guru’s word. Inside the front (i.e. the body) is the tenth door, the house in the cavity (gupha ghar); in this fort nine doors have been fixed according to Divine ordinance (hukam); in the tenth door the Invisible, Unwritten, Unlimited Person shows Himself—bhitari kot gupha ghar jai nau ghar thape hukami rajai; dasvai purakhu alekhu apari ape alakhu lakhaida (GG, 1033). This is the view expressed by the founder of Sikhism and he repeats it at another place also. He says that the Establisher has established nine houses (nau ghar) or nine doors in the city of this body; the Invisible and Infinite dwells at the tenth house or tenth door (GG, 1036). The nectar-like essence (amrit ras) is dripped by the Satguru; it comes out appearing at the tenth door. The sounding of the unstruck sound announces, as it were, the manifestation of God at this door — Amrit rasu satiguru chuaia; dasavai duari pragatu hoi aia; taha anahad sabad vajahi dhuni bani sahaje sahaji samai he (GG, 1069).
Occasionally the term das duar is used in gurbani in the sense of sensory and motor organs of body which should be kept under control. For the most part, however, the Sikh Scripture stresses the need for realization of the dasam duar, apart from God’s ordinance (hukam) and Teacher’s compassion (kirpa, prasad) and the necessity of transcending the realm of three-strand nature (triguna maya). Kabir, for instance, says that the tenth door opens only when the trinity (trikuti) of sattva, rajas and tamas is left behind—trikuti chhutai dasva daru khulhai ta manu khiva bhai (GG, 1123).

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Excellent insights Rosethorne Ji. Thank you so much for sharing. Beautifully written.

 

[rosethorne]

Dear harjas ji, If God is everywhere then we have to accept that Devil is also everywhere but Devil can't survive or succeed till last. So I have to thank you for this great regards, Thank you from Heart.

 

[sahilmakkar1983]

GuruFateh,

Though m really busy in office, but just to check what's going on, I came here,
Thanks Rosethorne paaji, tusi bada hi vadiya analysis kita he,
mein Saara te nahi pad paya.(time sachi bilkul vi nahi he office ch)..
but what I have read .. I found it really excellent.. a great effort by u for bringing such data about dasam-dwar on to this forum....
I have something to say, but will do later after reading it completely.
Yes tenth door can be opened by perfect master only as u wrote.

Thanks,
Sahil Makkar
GuruFateh

Dear Gursikhs, I have seen Sahilji Betraying Gurbani And Gursikhs at same time he use to write SGGS to mainu akal mili. Too many wrong doers use Gurbani as their shelter. Because it is a sentimental issue to Gursikhs. But as a Gursikh nobody can hear this. If any body wants any knowledge then too many sites are there to share. But annoying somebody or Gurbani is simply unbearable to a Gursikh. And in my view Time has come to make an end to it for Saahilji. It is time to open your eyes Saahilji second time in this topic, I told you about why didn't it is mentioned in SGGS Maharaj ji about our next Guru before in this topic.
I have copied this message below from Dasam Dvar - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

Kindly Saahilji Search for truth here, not in fake truths of your life.

DASAM DVAR (Sanskrit Dasamadvara), literally meaning "tenth gate", has been refered to in SGGS signifying the door to enlightenment and vision being only through NAAM DAAN & ISHNAAN.
This term originate from the Hathayogic system, where it is also known as brahmrandhra, moksadvara, mahapatha and madhya marga, the terms frequently used in the esoteric literature of medieval India. Also sometimes written as "Dasam DUara"
It is a term of religious physiology and its significance lies in its being a concept in the framework of soteriological ideology. Nine apertures (navdvaras) opening towards outside the body serve the physical mechanism of human personality but when their energy, normally being wasted, is consciously channelized towards the self, the tenth gate or the dasamdvar opens inside the body and renders a hyper-physical service by taking the seeker beyond the bondage of embodied existence.
The human body is endowed with nine doors also called holes or streams. These nine are: two eyes, two ears, two nostrils, mouth, ****, and urethra. All these are vital organs of living organism called human being. The Pali Suttanipata (verse 199. In Khuddak nikaya, vol. 1, p. 297) is perhaps one of the very first Indian texts which mentions the idea of nine ‘holes’ in the body. It is from a philosophically ascetic or Sramanic standpoint that the human body is described in this text as a mass of bones, sinews, flesh, etc. and as a bag for belly, intestines, liver, heart, bladder, lungs, kidneys, blood, bile, etc. “Ever from its nine streams (navahi sotehi) the unclean flows.” The Svetasvatara Upanisad (III. 18) and the Bhagavadgita (V. 13) refer to human body as “a city with nine gates” (nava dvara pure dehi) in which the Self dwells, neither acting nor causing to act. The Katha Upanisad (2.51), however, describes human abode of the Unborn One as “a city with eleven gates” (puram-ekadasa-dvaram). Mystical and soteriological significance of dasam dvar is found in the writings of the siddhas and the sants.
As a matter of fact the history of the idea of dasam dvar begins with the Buddhist Siddhas and we owe its popularity to Natha yogis. The term as well as the concept first appears in the works of Siddhas who flourished during the period between eighth and eleventh centuries. The Siddhas transmitted the theory of dasamdvar as a mystical spiritual gateway to Vaisnava Sants and thence it came to the Sikh [Gurus]]. The process of transmission was direct and natural since the Sants (or Bhagats) and Gurus lived and taught in a society thoroughly acquainted with and influenced by the terms, concepts and precepts of the Siddhas. Although the concept of dasam dvar remained the same, its functional value in theistic theology and socio-devotional methodology of the Sikh Gurus became decidedly different from its original one in the non-theistic ideology and esoteric-ascetic methodology of Buddhist Siddhas and Natha yogis.

In the Buddhist caryapadas or hymns of spiritual practice, the dasama dvara is also called vairocana-dvara, the brilliant gate or the supreme gate. In the texts of the Natha school such as the Siddhasiddhanda paddhati (II. 6), the mouth of sankhini is called the tenth gate (sankhini-bibaram-dasam dvaram). Sankhini is the name of a curved duct (banka nala) through which nectar (soma rasa, maharasa or amrit) passes downwards. This curved duct lies between the moon (candra) below the sahasrara-cakra or thousand-petalled lotus plexus in the cebrum region and the hollow in the palatal region. The Goraksavijaya describes sankhini as a double-mouthed (dvi-mukhia) serpent (sarpini), one mouth above, the other below. The life elixir called amrit or nectar pours down through the mouth of sankhini. This mouth called dasamd var has to be shut up and the quintessence of life, amrit or maharasa has to be conserved by the yogi. The amrit which pours down from the dasam dvar falls down in the fire of the sun (surya) where it is dried up by time (kalagni). The yogi by closing the dasam dvar and preserving the amrit deceives Time (death) and by drinking it himself through cumbersome khecari-mudra he attains immortality. Some other hathayogic texts name susumna nari instead of sankhini. However, all the texts agree that the brahmrandhra or the dasamdvar is the cavity on the roof of the palate and khecari mudra has to be performed for tasting the elixir of the amrit pouring down from it.
The notion of dasam dvar, written as dasam duar, occurs several times in the Guru Granth Sahib. Sikhism is a strictly monotheistic system belief and it must be stated at the outset that according to Sikh view of the dasam dvar, the tenth door opens into the abode of God, the Creator — dasam duara agam apara param purakh ki ghati (GG, 974), and again—nau ghar thape thapanharai dasvai vasa alakh aparai (GG, 1036). This fact distinguishes Sikhism from the non-theistic non-dualistic philosophy of the Siddhas. Second outstanding difference is that Sikhism is predominantly a devotional pathway, relying chiefly on the discipline of bhakti, i.e. loving devotion for the divine; the Siddhas and Nathas, on the other hand, practised Tantra or Hathayoga in which the disciplines of psychology and physiology were fused together. With these differences the notion of dasam duar in Sikhism employs the same terms and symbols as used by Siddhas and Nathas.

The nine doors (nau daryaje) and the tenth door are often mentioned together to show their differences. The unstruck sound is heard at the tenth door when it is freed from the shackles of nine doors in the body—nau darvaje dasvai mukta anahad sabadu vajavania (GG, 110). It is believed that the tenth door is closed by a hard diamond-like door (bajar kapat) which is haumai (self-centredness). This hard and strong door is opened and the darkness of haumai is dispelled by the instruction of the Teacher (Guru). In other words, the tenth door is the door of enlightenment and it opens only when the door consisting of haumai is broken. It is taken for granted in Sikhism that the tenth door is the supreme state of the mind. It is certainly not a physical door; it is that state of purified consciousness in which God is visible and all contacts with physical existence are cut off. It is called a being’s own house (nij-ghar), that is to say, a being’s real nature which is like light (joti sarup). One hears day and night the anahad sabda there when one dwells in one’s own house through the tenth door—nau dar thake dhavatu rahae, dasvai nijghari vasa pae (GG, 124).

At few places in the Gurbani, the term dasam duar has been used to denote ten organs—five sensory organs and five organs of action, i.e. jnanendriyas and karmendriyas. Says Guru Nanak: “Hukami sanjogi gari das duar, panch vasahi mili joti apar”—in the fortress of the body created in his hukam are ten doors. In this fort five subtle elements of sabda (sound), sparsa (touch), rupa (sight), rasa (taste) and grandha (smell) abide having the infinite light of the Lord in them (GG, 152). The amrit which flows at the tenth door is the essence of Divine name (nam ras) according to the Guru; it is not the physical elixir of immortality conceived by the Siddhas, nor is this amrit to be found by awakening kundalini or by practising khecari mudra; it is to be found through the Teacher’s instruction. When the Satguru is encountered then one stops from running (after the nine doors) and obtains the tenth door. Here at this door the immortalizing food (amrit bhojan), the innate sound (sahaj dhuni) is produced—dhavatu thammia satiguri miliai dasva duaru paia; tithai amrit bhojanu sahaj dhuni upajai jitu sabadi jagatu thammi rahaia (GG, 441).

This wholesome spot is not outside the physical frame. The second Guru also refers to the fort (kotu) with nine doors; the tenth door is hidden (gupatu); it is closed by a hard door which can be opened by the key of the Guru’s word (GG, 954). According to Guru Amar Das, Nanak III, he alone is released who conquers his mind and who keeps it free from defilement; arriving at the tenth door, and staying there he understands all the three spheres (GG, 490).

The importance of dasamdvar is of considerable theological interest. Here at the tenth door the anahad sabda (unstruck sound) is heard; here the divine drink of immortality trickles down; and here the devotee meets with the invisible and inaccessible transcendental Brahman who is described by the sages as unutterable (GG, 1002). The devotional theology of Sikhism requires that the gateway of ultimate release can open only by God’s will. The tenth door is closed with the adamantine hard door (bajar kapat) which can be opened duly with the Guru’s word. Inside the front (i.e. the body) is the tenth door, the house in the cavity (gupha ghar); in this fort nine doors have been fixed according to Divine ordinance (hukam); in the tenth door the Invisible, Unwritten, Unlimited Person shows Himself—bhitari kot gupha ghar jai nau ghar thape hukami rajai; dasvai purakhu alekhu apari ape alakhu lakhaida (GG, 1033). This is the view expressed by the founder of Sikhism and he repeats it at another place also. He says that the Establisher has established nine houses (nau ghar) or nine doors in the city of this body; the Invisible and Infinite dwells at the tenth house or tenth door (GG, 1036). The nectar-like essence (amrit ras) is dripped by the Satguru; it comes out appearing at the tenth door. The sounding of the unstruck sound announces, as it were, the manifestation of God at this door — Amrit rasu satiguru chuaia; dasavai duari pragatu hoi aia; taha anahad sabad vajahi dhuni bani sahaje sahaji samai he (GG, 1069).
Occasionally the term das duar is used in gurbani in the sense of sensory and motor organs of body which should be kept under control. For the most part, however, the Sikh Scripture stresses the need for realization of the dasam duar, apart from God’s ordinance (hukam) and Teacher’s compassion (kirpa, prasad) and the necessity of transcending the realm of three-strand nature (triguna maya). Kabir, for instance, says that the tenth door opens only when the trinity (trikuti) of sattva, rajas and tamas is left behind—trikuti chhutai dasva daru khulhai ta manu khiva bhai (GG, 1123).

 

[simpy]

Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,

in continuation of the first post-

Second:

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਦੀਖਿਆ ਕੈਸੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥
बिनु गुर दीखिआ कैसे गिआनु ॥
bin gur deekhi-aa kaisay gi-aan.
Without the Guru's Teachings, how can anyone obtain spiritual wisdom?

ਬਿਨੁ ਪੇਖੇ ਕਹੁ ਕੈਸੋ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥
बिनु पेखे कहु कैसो धिआनु ॥
bin paykhay kaho kaiso Dhi-aan.

Without seeing - tell me: how can anyone visualize in meditation?

If u say meditation, then lines are clearly saying that , Without seeing , u cant visualize in meditation,and no meditaion is possible,
and our Gurus has instructed us for DHYAN(meditaion).. So our devotion starts when we start seeing GOD.. (Ask questions if u have.. this thing can go very beyond in discussion)

very interesting Sahil Ji.

BYrau mhlw 5 ]
ibnu bwjy kYso inriqkwrI ]
ibnu kMTY kYsy gwvnhwrI ]
jIl ibnw kYsy bjY rbwb ]
nwm ibnw ibrQy siB kwj ]1]
nwm ibnw khhu ko qirAw ]
ibnu siqgur kYsy pwir pirAw ]1] rhwau ]
ibnu ijhvw khw ko bkqw ]
ibnu sRvnw khw ko sunqw ]
ibnu nyqRw khw ko pyKY ]
nwm ibnw nru khI n lyKY ]2]
ibnu ibidAw khw koeI pMifq ]
ibnu AmrY kYsy rwj mMifq ]
ibnu bUJy khw mnu Thrwnw ]
nwm ibnw sBu jgu baurwnw ]3]
ibnu bYrwg khw bYrwgI ]
ibnu hau iqAwig khw koaU iqAwgI ]
ibnu bis pMc khw mn cUry ]
nwm ibnw sd sd hI JUry ]4]
ibnu gur dIiKAw kYsy igAwnu ]
ibnu pyKy khu kYso iDAwnu ]
ibnu BY kQnI srb ibkwr ]
khu nwnk dr kw bIcwr ]5]6]19]


here Guru Ji is talking about all those things- how you cannot do certain things without the source it is coming from….

Now without seeing, meditation is not possible- it does not mean that eyes have to see something specific first(as you have presumed)- it is general idea of seeing within meditation.



And FYI Sahil Veer- in Spritual sense seeing has a very deep meaning- that cannot be described……. Especially where you are, it cannot make any sense to you, you have to get out of this veil of ego to feel it, see it hear it….

What happens with meditation????-VISUALIZATION OF WHAT TRUTH/GOD/ALMIGHTY is….

And God is not limited to a little small thing in a little small body. It is apaar, beyant, without any limits of any SORT………



Sahil Ji,

By twisting Guru Ji’s word you are loosing the touch to the reality.

Other references-
Respected Sahib Singh Ji-

hy BweI! auh smwDI kwhdI, jy Awpxy ieSt dw drsn nhIN huMdw?

For you Sahil Veer as you cannot read this kind of Punjabi-
Hey bhai! Oh Smadhi Kahdi, Jey aapney isht da darshan nahee hundaa.


Mere Veer, stop doing surface sailing. Seeing God is not a child’s play. One has to be purified in and out completely- avayain dujiaan magar lag ke aapney sir paapan daa bhaar na chadaa, Tenu koi khabar nahi tu kee kar rehaa hain.

Somebody is making a big fool of you my dear brother. Choice is yours- you have Gurbani and you have somebody who is misguiding you……..

also read
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-...o-objections-raised-sahil-ji-3.html#post53243

Forgive me please

 

[sahilmakkar1983]

GuruFateh
Lo apni likhi gal hi dubara pad lo
Hey bhai! Oh Smadhi Kahdi, Jey aapney isht da darshan nahee hundaa.

bhai sahab ...ethe darshan di hi gal kar rahe he, oh menu hoa he, or honda he..
GUR da kaam hi te rab dikhana he

Tvannu darshan hoa nahi na..
Tai eho jiya gala karde ho..

menu samjh nahi aa raya ki... tvannu sidha sidha likhya samjh kyon nahi aanda, SGGS vich sab sidha sidha hi te likhya he

BIN GUR DIKHYA...
again read it, intrepretations from any one.

ITs saying na, that without seeing one cant attain the knowledge.
thats all.


Ha behan, I do agree with ur understanding from SGGS ...
that BANI is nirankar...

but sister i wud request u again to read SGGS and emphasise
"WHAT IS BANI"
AS I told earlier with help of our great Scripture..
that BANI is in within us..

BANI BIRLA VICHAAR SI, JE KOI GURMUKH HOE,
EH BANI MAHAPURAKH KI, NIJ GHAR VAASA HOE..

(hope u will not feel this as misinter...)
means::ALL it means is BANI resides in NIJ GHAR(within body)

that is BANI..

I wud like to request u to just search on srigranth.org
put BANI as keyword there... and u will find all references to BANI..

and u urself can understand... I hope u will not say the interpretations of srigranth.org as wrong..

Sorry, If I said something wrong

GuruFateh.

Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,

in continuation of the first post-

Second:



very interesting Sahil Ji.

BYrau mhlw 5 ]
ibnu bwjy kYso inriqkwrI ]
ibnu kMTY kYsy gwvnhwrI ]
jIl ibnw kYsy bjY rbwb ]
nwm ibnw ibrQy siB kwj ]1]
nwm ibnw khhu ko qirAw ]
ibnu siqgur kYsy pwir pirAw ]1] rhwau ]
ibnu ijhvw khw ko bkqw ]
ibnu sRvnw khw ko sunqw ]
ibnu nyqRw khw ko pyKY ]
nwm ibnw nru khI n lyKY ]2]
ibnu ibidAw khw koeI pMifq ]
ibnu AmrY kYsy rwj mMifq ]
ibnu bUJy khw mnu Thrwnw ]
nwm ibnw sBu jgu baurwnw ]3]
ibnu bYrwg khw bYrwgI ]
ibnu hau iqAwig khw koaU iqAwgI ]
ibnu bis pMc khw mn cUry ]
nwm ibnw sd sd hI JUry ]4]
ibnu gur dIiKAw kYsy igAwnu ]
ibnu pyKy khu kYso iDAwnu ]
ibnu BY kQnI srb ibkwr ]
khu nwnk dr kw bIcwr ]5]6]19]


here Guru Ji is talking about all those things- how you cannot do certain things without the source it is coming from….

Now without seeing, meditation is not possible- it does not mean that eyes have to see something specific first(as you have presumed)- it is general idea of seeing within meditation.



And FYI Sahil Veer- in Spritual sense seeing has a very deep meaning- that cannot be described……. Especially where you are, it cannot make any sense to you, you have to get out of this veil of ego to feel it, see it hear it….

What happens with meditation????-VISUALIZATION OF WHAT TRUTH/GOD/ALMIGHTY is….

And God is not limited to a little small thing in a little small body. It is apaar, beyant, without any limits of any SORT………



Sahil Ji,

By twisting Guru Ji’s word you are loosing the touch to the reality.

Other references-
Respected Sahib Singh Ji-

hy BweI! auh smwDI kwhdI, jy Awpxy ieSt dw drsn nhIN huMdw?

For you Sahil Veer as you cannot read this kind of Punjabi-
Hey bhai! Oh Smadhi Kahdi, Jey aapney isht da darshan nahee hundaa.


Mere Veer, stop doing surface sailing. Seeing God is not a child’s play. One has to be purified in and out completely- avayain dujiaan magar lag ke aapney sir paapan daa bhaar na chadaa, Tenu koi khabar nahi tu kee kar rehaa hain.

Somebody is making a big fool of you my deer brother. Choice is yours- you have Gurbani and you have somebody who is misguiding you……..

also read
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-...o-objections-raised-sahil-ji-3.html#post53243

Forgive me please

 

[simpy]

GuruFateh
Lo apni likhi gal hi dubara pad lo
Hey bhai! Oh Smadhi Kahdi, Jey aapney isht da darshan nahee hundaa.

bhai sahab ...ethe darshan di hi gal kar rahe he, oh menu hoa he, or honda he..
GUR da kaam hi te rab dikhana he

Tvannu darshan hoa nahi na..
Tai eho jiya gala karde ho..

menu samjh nahi aa raya ki... tvannu sidha sidha likhya samjh kyon nahi aanda, SGGS vich sab sidha sidha hi te likhya he

BIN GUR DIKHYA...
again read it, intrepretations from any one.

ITs saying na, that without seeing one cant attain the knowledge.
thats all.


Ha behan, I do agree with ur understanding from SGGS ...
that BANI is nirankar...

but sister i wud request u again to read SGGS and emphasise
"WHAT IS BANI"
AS I told earlier with help of our great Scripture..
that BANI is in within us..

BANI BIRLA VICHAAR SI, JE KOI GURMUKH HOE,
EH BANI MAHAPURAKH KI, NIJ GHAR VAASA HOE..

(hope u will not feel this as misinter...)
means::ALL it means is BANI resides in NIJ GHAR(within body)

that is BANI..

I wud like to request u to just search on srigranth.org
put BANI as keyword there... and u will find all references to BANI..

and u urself can understand... I hope u will not say the interpretations of srigranth.org as wrong..

Sorry, If I said something wrong

GuruFateh.

Respected Veer you are truely being brainwashed badly

Bani nu adhaar banaa ke jeoon nu dassan vaaleyeo, je tuhadaa Guru eidaa krani vaala hai ta mere savaalan de jawaab keoon nahi sujhde tuhaanu
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-t...html#post53243


you are chasing your own tail my brother

i know srigranth.org and many other sites, no dearth of these....

transltions cannot teach you Gurbani
you need to reach to the reality-LEARN GURMUKHI FROM A REALIABLE SOURCE

Read Bhai Veer Singh Ji
Read Bhai Sahib Singh Ji

READ GURBANI AND THEN LIVE THE TRUTH IT TELLS YOU

GET OUT OF THIS KOOR MY BROTHER

YOU ARE LOST BIG TIME

NONE OF 'YOUR OWN EXPLANATIONs' EVER MAKE ANY SENSE

forgive me please

 

[simpy]

menu samjh nahi aa raya ki... tvannu sidha sidha likhya samjh kyon nahi aanda, SGGS vich sab sidha sidha hi te likhya he

BIN GUR DIKHYA...
again read it, intrepretations from any one.

ITs saying na, that without seeing one cant attain the knowledge.
thats all.

Respected Veer Sahil Ji, how many of you are answering these posts-

everytime your explanation changes or is twisted :hmm:

the one that i was refering to, previously posted translations by you says-

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਦੀਖਿਆ ਕੈਸੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥
बिनु गुर दीखिआ कैसे गिआनु ॥
bin gur deekhi-aa kaisay gi-aan.
Without the Guru's Teachings, how can anyone obtain spiritual wisdom?

no doubt you are confused my brother

waheguru bhalaa karey

forgive me please

 

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

Dear Admin,

Sincere apologies for my previous message in reply to the topic above. Many thanks for removing it. I shall exercise constraint in the future. I hope my new reply will be more palatable.

ekmusafir_ajnabi

 

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

Mr Sahil

Surinder Kaur Cheema
YOU HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF GURBANI WHATSOEVER, THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T HAVE ANY RESPECT FOR GURBANI

I totally agree with the above quote by Surinder Kaur Cheema.

You are repeatedly manipulating the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. You do not posess the Qualities or Understanding of a Bhramgyani. The quotes you are using to make your own point actually translate as follows:

ibnu gur dIiKAw kYsy igAwnu ]
Without the Guru's instruction (Naam), how can Divine knowledge be acquired?

dIiKAw = instruction(Naam) and NOT seeing.

ibnu pyKy khu kYso iDAwnu ]
Say, without seeing, how can one fix his attention?

This line refers to the visionary sense, of seeing and NOT referring to seeing God. For example a blind person cannot be asked to concentrate on an object because he cannot see the object. (That does not imply that he cannot concentrate.) Therefore you have to be able to see the object with your eyes to be able to concentrate.

This shabad is a conversation between Guru ji and a Siddh. The siddh is trying to quiz to confuse Guru ji on the issue of meditation in order to make his own point. A bit like what you have been trying to do for some time. The following two lines are the answer to the Siddh by Guru ji and let these lines also be a lesson to you as well. Have fear of God.

ibnu BY kQnI srb ibkwr ]
Without the Lord's fear, all utterance is in vain.
khu nwnk dr kw bIcwr ]5]6]19]
Says Nanak, this alone is the doctrine of the Lord's court.


hukmY AMdir sBu ko bwhir hukm n koie ]
hukmai andar sabh ko baahar hukam na ko-ay.
Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command.
nwnk hukmY jy buJY q haumY khY n koie ]2]
naanak hukmai jay bujhai ta ha-umai kahai na ko-ay. ||2||
O Nanak, one who understands His Command, does not speak in ego. ||2||

It is clear from the above verses and your mis-translations that you have not understood the Hukam.

Stop Day Dreaming and feel the Earth beneath you, where you still reside.

 

[simpy]

REspected EkMusafirAjnabi Ji,

it is not removed,
forum is working on the new setup

your reply is the best one

we all are missing 2/3 days posts, will soon be resumed

thanks for your contributions

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

your reply is the best one

Quoted for truth!

 

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

Jaisī mai āvai kẖasam kī baṇī ṯaisṛā karī gi­ān vė lālo.
As the Word of the Forgiving Lord comes to me, so do I express it, O Lalo.

Mera mujme kish nahi, Jo kuj hai so Tera
Tera tujko sompte, kya lage mera

 

[simpy]

Jaisī mai āvai kẖasam kī baṇī ṯaisṛā karī gi­ān vė lālo.
As the Word of the Forgiving Lord comes to me, so do I express it, O Lalo.

Mera mujme kish nahi, Jo kuj hai so Tera
Tera tujko sompte, kya lage mera

Waheguru