Hair And General Sikh Philosophy Study

[BhagatSingh]

Dear Singh said "The reason for keeping your hair is to accept the way God made you. If you cut your hair then you are not excepting God’s gift. The child that cannot grow hair is for a reason and God knows that reason. What we must do is accept it. God made the child that way in his eyes the child is beautiful and radiant even with out the hair. And for you to cut your hair to give to the child you are helping the child change the way he/she looks and not accepting the way God made that child and yourself. For that you are not accepting God’s will. God gave you hair as a gift. God blessed you with hair take care of them and don’t cut them."

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Moving the discussion to this topic. So it starts off with Singh saying the following on the topic "Regarding Sikh Girls".

To which I answer:

You should accept God's gift of haircut, as well as his gift of nails...

Then,

Bhagat Singh ji, i see the point you are making here, but ask yourself a question. Why did the Guru's Cut their nails, but not their hair?

Our nails grow since they are meant to be used quite a lot. If they didn't continue to grow continuously during our lifetimes, they would eventually erode away, leaving nothing behind. Which sucks though, because we need them. (If you have a hard time grasping this concept then look at beaver's teeth, claws of lion, tiger, etc)

In our society, we would need to cut our nails because we don't use our hands alot (we use tools, which protect out hands and nails). So to keep our nails short and manegeable, we simply cut them instead of scraping them along harder/rougher surfaces.

Continues to:

Our nails grow since they are meant to be used quite a lot. If they didn't continue to grow continuously during our lifetimes, they would eventually erode away, leaving nothing behind. Which sucks though, because we need them. (If you have a hard time grasping this concept then look at beaver's teeth, claws of lion, tiger, etc)

In our society, we would need to cut our nails because we don't use our hands alot (we use tools, which protect out hands and nails). So to keep our nails short and manegeable, we simply cut them instead of scraping them along harder/rougher surfaces.

Thanks for the info, but i already knew this.

You should accept God's gift of haircut, as well as his gift of nails...

What were your intentions when you wrote this? If we both agree nails can be cut but not hair.

Thanks for the info, but i already knew this.



What were your intentions when you wrote this? If we both agree nails can be cut but not hair.

Well, you said

If you cut your hair then you are not excepting God’s gift.

My response to this was/is, You should accept God's gift of haircut, as well as his gift of nails...
If you say hair is a gift from God then so are haircuts and nails. My purpose was to make you realize that everything is a gift from God, both hair and haircuts, and that it's upto the individual which gift they want to accept.

Yes BhagatSingh ji, i agree it is up to the individual to accept what they want. But being a Sikh we accept the hair and do not cut it and nails can be cut for the reason you have given and others. This reminds me of the shabads:

Some sing of His Power-who has that Power? Some sing of His Gifts, and know His Sign and Insignia. Some sing of His Glorious Virtues, Greatness and Beauty. Some sing of knowledge obtained of Him, through difficult philosophical studies. Some sing that He fashions the body, and then again reduces it to dust. Some sing that He takes life away, and then again restores it.



Page 2
Some sing that He seems so very far away. Some sing that He watches over us, face to face, ever-present. There is no shortage of those who preach and teach. Millions upon millions offer millions of sermons and stories. The Great Giver keeps on giving, while those who receive grow weary of receiving. Throughout the ages, consumers consume. The Commander, by His Command, leads us to walk on the Path. O Nanak, He blossoms forth, Carefree and Untroubled. || 3 || True is the Master, True is His Name-speak it with infinite love. People beg and pray, "Give to us, give to us", and the Great Giver gives His Gifts. So what offering can we place before Him, by which we might see the Darbaar of His Court? What words can we speak to evoke His Love? In the Amrit Vaylaa, the ambrosial hours before dawn, chant the True Name, and contemplate His Glorious Greatness. By the karma of past actions, the robe of this physical body is obtained. By His Grace, the Gate of Liberation is found. O Nanak, know this well: the True One Himself is All. || 4 ||


What can the poor helpless creatures do? Your Praises are overflowing with Your Treasures. Those, unto whom You give-how can they think of any other? O Nanak, the True One embellishes and exalts. || 4 || 2 ||

Yes BhagatSingh ji, i agree it is up to the individual to accept what they want. But being a Sikh we accept the hair and do not cut it and nails can be cut for the reason you have given and others.

Why?

Its simple as this because it was Guru Gobind Singh Sahib jis hukam for Sikhs to keep their hair. For a Sikh there should be no other Skeptic thoughts after this. But we are Skeptic people and we want to know even more and more. In other words we want to know everything in this world and the universe, but even knowing everthing in this world is useless if you dont accept Guru ji.

It's funny how Guru Gobind Singh and the other Gurus always did the opposite of what you're saying. They never accepted any Guru jis, and they always questioned the flaws in society and not only that they actually did something about them.
A big example and a common one is Guru Nanak rejecting the jenaeoo. His father ordered him, along with a pundit, to put on this jenaeoo. He questioned them and did not wear it. Bottomline, our Gurus weren't brainless zombies and neither am I.

Well if you look at this comment closely why would Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji follow another Guru when he follows God. Guru ji had the direct connection with God. But us on the other hand are just creatures that need to be guided and who do the SIkhs look to for the correct direction? Guru ji. So what must one do to follow Sikhism, follow Guru ji.
I have reminded Sikhs many times you dont have to listen to a word i say, but the only one that you should take into consideration is that ask Guru ji your question. But that doesnt always happen and people start asking question on this site and others. So the best thing anyone else or i can do is give them the facts and there will be always someone out their that disagrees, thats fine as long as its in the best interest of the person who asked the question and others. so if your implying that i am a Guru Lol, then thats your intrepation of me. Which is really funny. You got me laughing really hard here:rofl!!:

Well if you look at this comment closely why would Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji follow another Guru when he follows God. Guru ji had the direct connection with God.

What do you mean by direct connection?

But us on the other hand are just creatures that need to be guided and who do the SIkhs look to for the correct direction? Guru ji. So what must one do to follow Sikhism, follow Guru ji.

Yes humans need guidance from time to time, but guidance doesn't mean you can't question anything.

I have reminded Sikhs many times you dont have to listen to a word i say, but the only one that you should take into consideration is that ask Guru ji your question. But that doesnt always happen and people start asking question on this site and others. So the best thing anyone else or i can do is give them the facts and there will be always someone out their that disagrees, thats fine as long as its in the best interest of the person who asked the question and others.

Follow Guru JI, meaning follow Guru Granth Sahib?
Can you show me where in Guru Granth Sahib, rules are being imposed on the reader, like "don't cut hair"???

so if your implying that i am a Guru Lol, then thats your intrepation of me. Which is really funny. You got me laughing really hard here:rofl!!:

How in the world you got the idea that I was implying that you are a guru, I don't know. In fact, if you read my post correctly, I said, "It's funny how Guru Gobind Singh and the other Gurus always did the opposite of what you're saying." Read my posts carefully mate.
But I am glad I put a smile on your face. :yes:
Unless you laugh without smiling....:shock: hehe

What do you mean by direct connection?

Yes humans need guidance from time to time, but guidance doesn't mean you can't question anything.


Follow Guru JI, meaning follow Guru Granth Sahib?
Can you show me where in Guru Granth Sahib, rules are being imposed on the reader, like "don't cut hair"???


How in the world you got the idea that I was implying that you are a guru, I don't know. In fact, if you read my post correctly, I said, "It's funny how Guru Gobind Singh and the other Gurus always did the opposite of what you're saying." Read my posts carefully mate.
But I am glad I put a smile on your face. :yes:
Unless you laugh without smiling....:shock: hehe

What do you mean by direct connection?

That Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji is already one with God.

Yes humans need guidance from time to time, but guidance doesn't mean you can't question anything.

Yes question what you want but if you do not follow Guru ji then what is the use of all the answers. The answers become meaningless to you and your soul can be lossed in the five theives.

Follow Guru JI, meaning follow Guru Granth Sahib?

Yes

Can you show me where in Guru Granth Sahib, rules are being imposed on the reader, like "don't cut hair", "dont eat meat"???

That i know of nowhere and neither does it say you can cut your hair. Here are some Shabads from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib that helps one realize hair should not be cut nor does it need to be cut.

BHAIRAO, FIFTH MEHL: The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is the Inner-knower of
my heart. The Naam is so useful to me. The Lord.s Name permeates each and every hair of mine. The Perfect True Guru has
given me this gift. || 1 || ang 1144

He gives Support to the unsupported. The
Name of the Lord is the Wealth of the poor. The Lord of the Universe is the Master of the masterless; the Beautiful-haired Lord
is the Power of the weak. The Lord is Merciful to all beings, Eternal and Unchanging, the Family of the meek and humble. The
All-knowing, Perfect, Primal Lord God is the Lover of His devotees, the Embodiment of Mercy.
-1356-
The Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent, Luminous Lord, dwells in each and every heart. Nanak begs for this blessing from
the Merciful Lord, that he may never forget Him, never forget Him. || 21 ||ang 1356

Kabeer, chant the Name of the Beautifully-haired Lord; do not sleep unaware. Chanting His Name night and
day, the Lord will eventually hear your call. || 223 || ang 1376

SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: They pluck the hair out of their heads, and drink in filthy water;
they beg endlessly and eat the garbage which others have thrown away. They spread manure, they suck in rotting smells, and
they are afraid of clean water. Their hands are smeared with ashes, and the hair on their heads is plucked out.they are like
sheep! They have renounced the lifestyle of their mothers and fathers, and their families and relatives cry out in distress. No
one offers the rice dishes at their last rites, and no one lights the lamps for them. After their death, where will they be sent?
The sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage give them no place of protection, and no Brahmin will eat their food. They remain
polluted forever, day and night; they do not apply the ceremonial tilak mark to their foreheads. They sit together in silence, as
if in mourning; they do not go to the Lord.s Court. With their begging bowls hanging from their waists, and their fly-brushes in
their hands, they walk along in single file. They are not Yogis, and they are not Jangams, followers of Shiva.
-150-
They are not Qazis or Mullahs. Ruined by the Merciful Lord, they wander around in disgrace, and their entire troop is
contaminated. The Lord alone kills and restores to life; no one else can protect anyone from Him. They go without giving alms
or any cleansing baths; their shaven heads become covered with dust. The jewel emerged from the water, when the mountain
of gold was used to churn it. The gods established the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage, where the festivals are
celebrated and hymns are chanted. After bathing, the Muslims recite their prayers, and after bathing, the Hindus perform their
worship services. The wise always take cleansing baths. At the time of death, and at the time of birth, they are purified, when
water is poured on their heads. O Nanak, the shaven-headed ones are devils. They are not pleased to hear these words. When
it rains, there is happiness. Water is the key to all life. When it rains, the corn grows, and the sugar cane, and the cotton,
which provides clothing for all. When it rains, the cows always have grass to graze upon, and housewives can churn the milk
into butter. With that ghee, sacred feasts and worship services are performed; all these efforts are blessed. The Guru is the
ocean, and all His Teachings are the river. Bathing within it, glorious greatness is obtained. O Nanak, if the shaven-headed
ones do not bathe, then seven handfuls of ashes are upon their heads. || 1 || ang 150

On the fourteenth day of the lunar cycle, in the fourteen worlds and on each and every hair, the Lord
abides. Center yourself and meditate on truth and contentment. Speak the speech of God.s spiritual wisdom. || 15 ||ang 344

Hearing the Bani of the Lord.s Name, all my affairs were brought to
perfection and embellished. With each and every hair, with each and every hair, as Gurmukh, I meditate on the Lord. I
meditate on the Lord.s Name, and become pure; He has no form or shape. The Name of the Lord, Raam, Raam, is permeating
my heart deep within, and all of my desire and hunger has disappeared. My mind and body are totally adorned with peace and
tranquility; through the Guru.s Teachings, the Lord has been revealed to me. The Lord Himself has shown His kind mercy to
Nanak; He has made me the slave of the slaves of His slaves. || 3 || ang 443

Your eyes are beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful. Your nose is graceful, and Your hair is so long. Your body is
precious, cast in gold. His body is cast in gold, and He wears Krishna.s mala; meditate on Him, O sisters. You shall not have to
stand at Death.s door, O sisters, if you listen to these teachings. From a crane, you shall be transformed into a swan, and the
filth of your mind shall be removed. Your eyes are beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful. || 7 || ang 567

I have come to Your Sanctuary, Destroyer of pain; O Primal
Immaculate Lord, may I dwell upon You in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. O Lord of beautiful hair, Destroyer of
pain, Eradicator of sins, Nanak lives, gazing upon the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. || 2 || 9 || 125 || ang 829

Finally, the True Guru said, .When I am gone, sing Kirtan in Praise of the Lord, in Nirvaanaa.. Call
in the long-haired scholarly Saints of the Lord, to read the sermon of the Lord, Har, Har. Read the sermon of the Lord, and
listen to the Lord.s Name; the Guru is pleased with love for the Lord. Do not bother with offering rice-***** on leaves, lighting
lamps, and other rituals like floating the body out on the Ganges; instead, let my remains be given up to the Lord.s Pool. The
Lord was pleased as the True Guru spoke; he was blended then with the all-knowing Primal Lord God.
-924-
The Guru then blessed the Sodhi Ram Das with the ceremonial tilak mark, the insignia of the True Word of the Shabad. || 5 || ang 923

BhagatSingh ji, Why would Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji give the order to the Sikhs to keep their hair and why did the Gurus keep their hair uncut?

Yes question what you want but if you do not follow Guru ji then what is the use of all the answers.

Did Guru Nanak follow any Guru Jis? No, and yet he found a use of all the answers.

The answers become meaningless to you and your soul can be lossed in the five theives.

oh pluhlease.
Ill comment once you explain your definition of the soul and five thieves.

That i know of nowhere and neither does it say you can cut your hair. Here are some Shabads from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib that helps one realize hair should not be cut nor does it need to be cut.

Ok let's see...

BHAIRAO, FIFTH MEHL: The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is the Inner-knower of
my heart. The Naam is so useful to me. The Lord.s Name permeates each and every hair of mine. The Perfect True Guru has
given me this gift. || 1 || ang 1144

:}: ...nothing here that says don't, or should not or does not need to be cut, unless you can explain otherwise.

He gives Support to the unsupported. The
Name of the Lord is the Wealth of the poor. The Lord of the Universe is the Master of the masterless; the Beautiful-haired Lord
is the Power of the weak. The Lord is Merciful to all beings, Eternal and Unchanging, the Family of the meek and humble. The
All-knowing, Perfect, Primal Lord God is the Lover of His devotees, the Embodiment of Mercy.
-1356-

Ok for some reason I did not find this on page 1356, so no comments until you can provide me with the correct page number. i am using www.srigranth.org

The Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent, Luminous Lord, dwells in each and every heart. Nanak begs for this blessing from
the Merciful Lord, that he may never forget Him, never forget Him. || 21 ||ang 1356

WOW, talk about off topic. I don't see how this has anything to do with hair.

Kabeer, chant the Name of the Beautifully-haired Lord; do not sleep unaware. Chanting His Name night and
day, the Lord will eventually hear your call. || 223 || ang 1376

Beautifully-haired lord eh? cool. And this is supposed to tell me to not cut my hair, etc etc?
the same kabeer tells me this:
ਕਬੀਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਇਕ ਸਿਉ ਕੀਏ ਆਨ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਜਾਇ ॥
कबीर प्रीति इक सिउ कीए आन दुबिधा जाइ ॥
Kabīr parīṯ ik si*o kī*ė ān ḏubiḏẖā jā*ė.
Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.

ਭਾਵੈ ਲਾਂਬੇ ਕੇਸ ਕਰੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਘਰਰਿ ਮੁਡਾਇ ॥੨੫॥
भावै लांबे केस करु भावै घररि मुडाइ ॥२५॥
Bẖāvai lāʼnbė kės kar bẖāvai gẖarar mudā*ė. ||25||
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||

SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: They pluck the hair out of their heads, and drink in filthy water;
they beg endlessly and eat the garbage which others have thrown away. They spread manure, they suck in rotting smells, and
they are afraid of clean water. Their hands are smeared with ashes, and the hair on their heads is plucked out.they are like
sheep! They have renounced the lifestyle of their mothers and fathers, and their families and relatives cry out in distress. No
one offers the rice dishes at their last rites, and no one lights the lamps for them. After their death, where will they be sent?
The sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage give them no place of protection, and no Brahmin will eat their food. They remain
polluted forever, day and night; they do not apply the ceremonial tilak mark to their foreheads. They sit together in silence, as
if in mourning; they do not go to the Lord.s Court. With their begging bowls hanging from their waists, and their fly-brushes in
their hands, they walk along in single file. They are not Yogis, and they are not Jangams, followers of Shiva.
-150-

They are not Qazis or Mullahs. Ruined by the Merciful Lord, they wander around in disgrace, and their entire troop is
contaminated. The Lord alone kills and restores to life; no one else can protect anyone from Him. They go without giving alms
or any cleansing baths; their shaven heads become covered with dust. The jewel emerged from the water, when the mountain
of gold was used to churn it. The gods established the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage, where the festivals are
celebrated and hymns are chanted. After bathing, the Muslims recite their prayers, and after bathing, the Hindus perform their
worship services. The wise always take cleansing baths. At the time of death, and at the time of birth, they are purified, when
water is poured on their heads. O Nanak, the shaven-headed ones are devils. They are not pleased to hear these words. When
it rains, there is happiness. Water is the key to all life. When it rains, the corn grows, and the sugar cane, and the cotton,
which provides clothing for all. When it rains, the cows always have grass to graze upon, and housewives can churn the milk
into butter. With that ghee, sacred feasts and worship services are performed; all these efforts are blessed. The Guru is the
ocean, and all His Teachings are the river. Bathing within it, glorious greatness is obtained. O Nanak, if the shaven-headed
ones do not bathe, then seven handfuls of ashes are upon their heads. || 1 || ang 150

Did not find these quotes on page 150 so no comments until you provide correct page number, i am using Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib

On the fourteenth day of the lunar cycle, in the fourteen worlds and on each and every hair, the Lord
abides. Center yourself and meditate on truth and contentment. Speak the speech of God.s spiritual wisdom. || 15 ||ang 344

Let me finish this off.
ਚਉਦਸਿ ਚਉਦਹ ਲੋਕ ਮਝਾਰਿ ॥
चउदसि चउदह लोक मझारि ॥
Cẖa*uḏas cẖa*oḏah lok majẖār.
On the fourteenth day of the lunar cycle, in the fourteen worlds

ਰੋਮ ਰੋਮ ਮਹਿ ਬਸਹਿ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ॥
रोम रोम महि बसहि मुरारि ॥
Rom rom meh baseh murār.
and on each and every hair, the Lord abides.

ਸਤ ਸੰਤੋਖ ਕਾ ਧਰਹੁ ਧਿਆਨ ॥
सत संतोख का धरहु धिआन ॥
Saṯ sanṯokẖ kā ḏẖarahu ḏẖi*ān.
Center yourself and meditate on truth and contentment.

ਕਥਨੀ ਕਥੀਐ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨ ॥੧੫॥
कथनी कथीऐ ब्रहम गिआन ॥१५॥
Kathnī kathī*ai barahm gi*ān. ||15||
Speak the speech of God's spiritual wisdom. ||15||

ਪੂਨਿਉ ਪੂਰਾ ਚੰਦ ਅਕਾਸ ॥
पूनिउ पूरा चंद अकास ॥
Pūni*o pūrā cẖanḏ akās.
On the day of the full moon, the full moon fills the heavens.

ਪਸਰਹਿ ਕਲਾ ਸਹਜ ਪਰਗਾਸ ॥
पसरहि कला सहज परगास ॥
Pasrahi kalā sahj pargās.
Its power is diffused through its gentle light.

ਆਦਿ ਅੰਤਿ ਮਧਿ ਹੋਇ ਰਹਿਆ ਥੀਰ ॥
आदि अंति मधि होइ रहिआ थीर ॥
Āḏ anṯ maḏẖ ho*ė rahi*ā thīr.
In the beginning, in the end, and in the middle, God remains firm and steady.

ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰ ਮਹਿ ਰਮਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ॥੧੬॥
सुख सागर महि रमहि कबीर ॥१६॥
Sukẖ sāgar meh rameh Kabīr. ||16||
Kabeer is immersed in the ocean of peace. ||16||

Again doesnt say "don't cut hair", "shouldnt cut hair" or "dont need to cut hair".
the" long haired lord" thing seems to be a trend in Kabeer's writings.

Hearing the Bani of the Lord.s Name, all my affairs were brought to
perfection and embellished. With each and every hair, with each and every hair, as Gurmukh, I meditate on the Lord. I
meditate on the Lord.s Name, and become pure; He has no form or shape. The Name of the Lord, Raam, Raam, is permeating
my heart deep within, and all of my desire and hunger has disappeared. My mind and body are totally adorned with peace and
tranquility; through the Guru.s Teachings, the Lord has been revealed to me. The Lord Himself has shown His kind mercy to
Nanak; He has made me the slave of the slaves of His slaves. || 3 || ang 443

... this is getting repititive. Its talking about how a gurmukh is absorbed into the meditation. That every single hair on his/her body is meditating upon hte lord. Again nothing to do with "helps one realize hair should not be cut nor does it need to be cut."

Your eyes are beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful. Your nose is graceful, and Your hair is so long. Your body is
precious, cast in gold. His body is cast in gold, and He wears Krishna.s mala; meditate on Him, O sisters. You shall not have to
stand at Death.s door, O sisters, if you listen to these teachings. From a crane, you shall be transformed into a swan, and the
filth of your mind shall be removed. Your eyes are beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful. || 7 || ang 567

... copy and paste
Again nothing to do with "helps one realize hair should not be cut nor does it need to be cut."

I have come to Your Sanctuary, Destroyer of pain; O Primal
Immaculate Lord, may I dwell upon You in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. O Lord of beautiful hair, Destroyer of
pain, Eradicator of sins, Nanak lives, gazing upon the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. || 2 || 9 || 125 || ang 829

Again nothing to do with "helps one realize hair should not be cut nor does it need to be cut."

Finally, the True Guru said, .When I am gone, sing Kirtan in Praise of the Lord, in Nirvaanaa.. Call
in the long-haired scholarly Saints of the Lord, to read the sermon of the Lord, Har, Har. Read the sermon of the Lord, and
listen to the Lord.s Name; the Guru is pleased with love for the Lord. Do not bother with offering rice-***** on leaves, lighting
lamps, and other rituals like floating the body out on the Ganges; instead, let my remains be given up to the Lord.s Pool. The
Lord was pleased as the True Guru spoke; he was blended then with the all-knowing Primal Lord God.
-924-
The Guru then blessed the Sodhi Ram Das with the ceremonial tilak mark, the insignia of the True Word of the Shabad. || 5 || ang 923

Again nothing to do with "helps one realize hair should not be cut nor does it need to be cut."

BhagatSingh ji, Why would Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji give the order to the Sikhs to keep their hair and why did the Gurus keep their hair uncut?

I don't know I am not Guru Gobind Singh. (been bashed on this forum for formulating a hypothesis of what Guru GObind singh would have thought when doing a certain action. SO I won't be getting into that again):yes:
No proof of whether the other Gurus kept their hair uncut.

HAHA, huge post! Mainly because there are repititions. So if once you get through that you may tell us your views. :}{}{}:

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Hair...

Then Singh replies with the following:

Did Guru Nanak (Guru Nanak Dev Ji) follow any Guru Jis? No, and yet he found a use of all the answers.

So what is your point here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh (Regarding Sikh Girls)
BHAIRAO, FIFTH MEHL: The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is the Inner-knower of
my heart. The Naam is so useful to me. The Lord.s Name permeates each and every hair of mine. The Perfect True Guru has
given me this gift. || 1 || ang 1144


Quote:
..nothing here that says don't, or should not or does not need to be cut, unless you can explain otherwise.

Okay lets look what the shabad is saying. God’s name exist in each and every hair of mine. Some can say the shabad is saying God exist everywhere. But one word changes everything here. “Mine” meaning my hair. So God exist in your and my hair. Now if I cut this hair does that bring me closer to God or further? Just this action alone all other factors stay the same. Then read the next line.

The Perfect True Guru has given me this gift. || 1 ||

What gift is Guru ji referring to here? The gift of the lord’s name. The lord’s name is a gift from the True Guru and this naam permeates on every hair of mine then this hair that is on our body’s is of some use. It must have something really special about it but some do not know why it is so special.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh (Regarding Sikh Girls)
He gives Support to the unsupported. The
Name of the Lord is the Wealth of the poor. The Lord of the Universe is the Master of the masterless; the Beautiful-haired Lord
is the Power of the weak. The Lord is Merciful to all beings, Eternal and Unchanging, the Family of the meek and humble. The
All-knowing, Perfect, Primal Lord God is the Lover of His devotees, the Embodiment of Mercy.
-1356-
Quote:
Ok for some reason I did not find this on page 1356, so no comments until you can provide me with the correct page number. i am using www.srigranth.org

http://www.srigranth.org/
Its on ang 1355 near the end and at the top of 1356. Just look more carefully, you’ll find it.
All I wanted to share with you here was that Guru ji is describing Waheguru with beautiful-hair.

Originally Posted by Singh (Regarding Sikh Girls)
The Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent, Luminous Lord, dwells in each and every heart. Nanak begs for this blessing from
the Merciful Lord, that he may never forget Him, never forget Him. || 21 ||ang 1356

Well not really, the shabad is on the same ang as the top one 1355-1356. So once again be more careful before you rush to a conclusion.

Quote:
Beautifully-haired lord eh? cool. And this is supposed to tell me to not cut my hair, etc etc?
the same kabeer tells me this:

ਕਬੀਰਪ੍ਰੀਤਿਇਕਸਿਉਕੀਏਆਨਦੁਬਿਧਾਜਾਇ॥
कबीरप्रीतिइकसिउकीएआनदुबिधाजाइ॥
Kabīr parīṯ ik si*o kī*ė ān ḏubiḏẖā jā*ė.
Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.

ਭਾਵੈਲਾਂਬੇਕੇਸਕਰੁਭਾਵੈਘਰਰਿਮੁਡਾਇ॥੨੫॥
भावैलांबेकेसकरुभावैघररिमुडाइ॥२५॥
Bẖāvai lāʼnbė kės kar bẖāvai gẖarar mudā*ė. ||25||
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||

Kabeer, be in love with only that one, whose Master is the Lord. The Pandits, the religious scholars, kings and landlords. what good is love for them? || 24 || Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart. You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. || 25 || Kabeer, the world is a room filled with black soot; the blind fall into its trap. I am a sacrifice to those who are thrown in, and still escape. || 26 || Kabeer, this body shall perish; save it, if you can. Even those who have tens of thousands and millions, must depart bare-footed in the end. || 27 || ang 1365

To understand these shabads look at what Kabeer ji is saying first. Kabeer is saying nothing else matters when you are in love with the Lord. Only the one matters. Also he is saying do not get caught up in worldly affairs so much that you forget about the overall goal.

Keeping the hair or cutting the hair can distract a person from the ultimate goal in life. The hair creates an issue for an instance cutting it every time takes time trying to making it look good for yourself or others can start eating at the person. The person constantly alters the hair to be perceived in a certain way and the person then gets tired of that look and moves on to another. This will also be changed in time. nowthe person is caught up in the maya of hair and beauty and forgets the Lord. The person starts going to hair salons spending unbelievable amount of time and money to worry about something that will turn into dust anyway. Also the one that keeps his hair can be doing the same thing. Constantly worrying about how it looks spending so much time trying to make it look good and then forgetting the ultimate goal in life. This theory works in both cases but keeping your hair is the better choice from the two because it was Guru Gobind Sinh Sahibs hukam, the Gurus kept their hair and the science also lead us to believe hair does bring us closer to the Lord.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/sikh-youth/19409-regarding-sikh-girls-13.html#post85543"] (Regarding Sikh Girls)

SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: They pluck the hair out of their heads, and drink in filthy water;
they beg endlessly and eat the garbage which others have thrown away. They spread manure, they suck in rotting smells, and
they are afraid of clean water. Their hands are smeared with ashes, and the hair on their heads is plucked out.they are like
sheep! They have renounced the lifestyle of their mothers and fathers, and their families and relatives cry out in distress. No
one offers the rice dishes at their last rites, and no one lights the lamps for them. After their death, where will they be sent?
The sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage give them no place of protection, and no Brahmin will eat their food. They remain
polluted forever, day and night; they do not apply the ceremonial tilak mark to their foreheads. They sit together in silence, as
if in mourning; they do not go to the Lord.s Court. With their begging bowls hanging from their waists, and their fly-brushes in
their hands, they walk along in single file. They are not Yogis, and they are not Jangams, followers of Shiva.
-150-

They are not Qazis or Mullahs. Ruined by the Merciful Lord, they wander around in disgrace, and their entire troop is
contaminated. The Lord alone kills and restores to life; no one else can protect anyone from Him. They go without giving alms
or any cleansing baths; their shaven heads become covered with dust. The jewel emerged from the water, when the mountain
of gold was used to churn it. The gods established the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage, where the festivals are
celebrated and hymns are chanted. After bathing, the Muslims recite their prayers, and after bathing, the Hindus perform their
worship services. The wise always take cleansing baths. At the time of death, and at the time of birth, they are purified, when
water is poured on their heads. O Nanak, the shaven-headed ones are devils. They are not pleased to hear these words. When
it rains, there is happiness. Water is the key to all life. When it rains, the corn grows, and the sugar cane, and the cotton,
which provides clothing for all. When it rains, the cows always have grass to graze upon, and housewives can churn the milk
into butter. With that ghee, sacred feasts and worship services are performed; all these efforts are blessed. The Guru is the
ocean, and all His Teachings are the river. Bathing within it, glorious greatness is obtained. O Nanak, if the shaven-headed
ones do not bathe, then seven handfuls of ashes are upon their heads. || 1 || ang 150


Did not find these quotes on page 150 so no comments until you provide correct page number, i am using Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib

[/URL]http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0&Param=150
These shabads are on at the end of ang 149 and at the top of ang 150. I wait for your response on this one.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh (Regarding Sikh Girls)
On the fourteenth day of the lunar cycle, in the fourteen worlds and on each and every hair, the Lord
abides. Center yourself and meditate on truth and contentment. Speak the speech of God.s spiritual wisdom. || 15 ||ang 344


Let me finish this off.
ਚਉਦਸਿਚਉਦਹਲੋਕਮਝਾਰਿ॥
चउदसिचउदहलोकमझारि॥
Cẖa*uḏas cẖa*oḏah lok majẖār.
On the fourteenth day of the lunar cycle, in the fourteen worlds

ਰੋਮਰੋਮਮਹਿਬਸਹਿਮੁਰਾਰਿ॥
रोमरोममहिबसहिमुरारि॥
Rom rom meh baseh murār.
and on each and every hair, the Lord abides.

ਸਤਸੰਤੋਖਕਾਧਰਹੁਧਿਆਨ॥
सतसंतोखकाधरहुधिआन॥
Saṯ sanṯokẖ kā ḏẖarahu ḏẖi*ān.
Center yourself and meditate on truth and contentment.

ਕਥਨੀਕਥੀਐਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨ॥੧੫॥
कथनीकथीऐब्रहमगिआन॥१५॥
Kathnī kathī*ai barahm gi*ān. ||15||
Speak the speech of God's spiritual wisdom. ||15||

ਪੂਨਿਉਪੂਰਾਚੰਦਅਕਾਸ॥
पूनिउपूराचंदअकास॥
Pūni*o pūrā cẖanḏ akās.
On the day of the full moon, the full moon fills the heavens.

ਪਸਰਹਿਕਲਾਸਹਜਪਰਗਾਸ॥
पसरहिकलासहजपरगास॥
Pasrahi kalā sahj pargās.
Its power is diffused through its gentle light.

ਆਦਿਅੰਤਿਮਧਿਹੋਇਰਹਿਆਥੀਰ॥
आदिअंतिमधिहोइरहिआथीर॥
Āḏ anṯ maḏẖ ho*ė rahi*ā thīr.
In the beginning, in the end, and in the middle, God remains firm and steady.

ਸੁਖਸਾਗਰਮਹਿਰਮਹਿਕਬੀਰ॥੧੬॥
सुखसागरमहिरमहिकबीर॥१६॥
Sukẖ sāgar meh rameh Kabīr. ||16||
Kabeer is immersed in the ocean of peace. ||16||

Again doesnt say "don't cut hair", "shouldnt cut hair" or "dont need to cut hair".
the" long haired lord" thing seems to be a trend in Kabeer's writings.

Just showing that God abides on every hair and the hair has use and should be kept to find out that use. Otherwise Guru ji would have not put this in. Yes it is a trend and it has meaning my friend. The only thing is we humans do not know the meaning of this trend. Just because it is a trend we should not put it in the back and think nothing of it for the line has reason and meaning.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh (Regarding Sikh Girls)
Hearing the Bani of the Lord.s Name, all my affairs were brought to
perfection and embellished. With each and every hair, with each and every hair, as Gurmukh, I meditate on the Lord. I
meditate on the Lord.s Name, and become pure; He has no form or shape. The Name of the Lord, Raam, Raam, is permeating
my heart deep within, and all of my desire and hunger has disappeared. My mind and body are totally adorned with peace and
tranquility; through the Guru.s Teachings, the Lord has been revealed to me. The Lord Himself has shown His kind mercy to
Nanak; He has made me the slave of the slaves of His slaves. || 3 || ang 443


... this is getting repititive. Its talking about how a gurmukh is absorbed into the meditation. That every single hair on his/her body is meditating upon hte lord. Again nothing to do with "helps one realize hair should not be cut nor does it need to be cut."

Hold up, read the Shabad one more time with an open mind. Lol yes it is getting repetitive which is the point. In the Sri Guru Granth Sahib the Guru tells us to repeat the lords name over and over and this gets repetitive and I don’t see you taking it so lightly. The Guru repeats what they want us to understand so easily. Now if one cuts the hair off the body then how can that person mediate on that hair. That person has loosed the opportunity to mediate on that hair. Now if we are told to constantly mediate on the lord and we take away the hair that also mediates on the lord does that make us better off or worse off?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh (Regarding Sikh Girls)
I have come to Your Sanctuary, Destroyer of pain; O Primal
Immaculate Lord, may I dwell upon You in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. O Lord of beautiful hair, Destroyer of
pain, Eradicator of sins, Nanak lives, gazing upon the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. || 2 || 9 || 125 || ang 829


Again nothing to do with "helps one realize hair should not be cut nor does it need to be cut."

The lord is described with hair and it has meaning to it like I said above.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh (Regarding Sikh Girls)
Finally, the True Guru said, .When I am gone, sing Kirtan in Praise of the Lord, in Nirvaanaa.. Call
in the long-haired scholarly Saints of the Lord, to read the sermon of the Lord, Har, Har. Read the sermon of the Lord, and
listen to the Lord.s Name; the Guru is pleased with love for the Lord. Do not bother with offering rice-***** on leaves, lighting
lamps, and other rituals like floating the body out on the Ganges; instead, let my remains be given up to the Lord.s Pool. The
Lord was pleased as the True Guru spoke; he was blended then with the all-knowing Primal Lord God.
-924-
The Guru then blessed the Sodhi Ram Das with the ceremonial tilak mark, the insignia of the True Word of the Shabad. || 5 || ang 923


Again nothing to do with "helps one realize hair should not be cut nor does it need to be cut."

Look at it again and see why the Guru is so specific when he says who should be called in to read the sermon of the lord. The long-haired scholarly saints are the one he specifies to read the sermon of the lord. Not the one that shave their head bald, but the ones with long-hair. And it does help the reader realize hair should be kept. Because the shabad is saying only the pure one’s are to read the lord’s sermon when the Guru is gone from this earth.

Quote:
I don't know I am not Guru Gobind Singh. (been bashed on this forum for formulating a hypothesis of what Guru GObind singh would have thought when doing a certain action. SO I won't be getting into that again)

No proof of whether the other Gurus kept their hair uncut.

What! All Gurus kept their hair long. Look what the last shabad that I explained says. This is a total shock to me that you would think that any of the Guru would cut their hair. The Gurus Sikhs laid their lifes down because they were told to cut there hair. Here you say there is no proof. Truly astonishing.



Dalsingh ji nicely said. But a few things I would like to point out.

When the question of hair arises in Sikhism like it has now it should be explored. Just pushing it aside is when one person can make a mistakes and end up telling others there is no use of hair. Yes arguing over the issue like animals will get you no where and only hurt the people spiritually in the longrun. Also for a person with kesh to bash a mona is wrong and the cause of this bashing is judging the person without getting to know him/her.

I totally agree people progress spiritually at there own pace, but again this issue has been brought up and it should be explored. I know it gets repetitive to bring it up over and over again but to ignore it is a mistake. The person asking the question does not know the facts and is asking for help. And for us to ignore the person would be really stupid of us. Why not share what you know of the great lord with others. It is the greatest gift one can give to another.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Hair...

My replies in orange.

So what is your point here?

huh?
You said, " Yes question what you want but if you do not follow Guru ji then what is the use of all the answers. "

I replied, "Did Guru Nanak follow any Guru Jis? No, and yet he found a use of all the answers."

My point is we can do the same.

Okay lets look what the shabad is saying. God’s name exist in each and every hair of mine. Some can say the shabad is saying God exist everywhere. But one word changes everything here. “Mine” meaning my hair. So God exist in your and my hair. Now if I cut this hair does that bring me closer to God or further? Just this action alone all other factors stay the same. Then read the next line.
So you're saying God only exists in hair?


The Perfect True Guru has given me this gift. || 1 ||

What gift is Guru ji referring to here? The gift of the lord’s name. The lord’s name is a gift from the True Guru and this naam permeates on every hair of mine then this hair that is on our body’s is of some use. It must have something really special about it but some do not know why it is so special.
Hair are all over your body so what that is saying is the the Lord's name is everywhere. In EACH and EVERY hair of mine. It's called figure of speech. Were not looking at a scientific document here, this is poetry!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh
He gives Support to the unsupported. The
Name of the Lord is the Wealth of the poor. The Lord of the Universe is the Master of the masterless; the Beautiful-haired Lord
is the Power of the weak. The Lord is Merciful to all beings, Eternal and Unchanging, the Family of the meek and humble. The
All-knowing, Perfect, Primal Lord God is the Lover of His devotees, the Embodiment of Mercy.
-1356-


Its on ang 1355 near the end and at the top of 1356. Just look more carefully, you’ll find it.
All I wanted to share with you here was that Guru ji is describing Waheguru with beautiful-hair.
Guru Ji says Waheguru has no form.


Originally Posted by Singh
The Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent, Luminous Lord, dwells in each and every heart. Nanak begs for this blessing from
the Merciful Lord, that he may never forget Him, never forget Him. || 21 ||ang 1356

Well not really, the shabad is on the same ang as the top one 1355-1356. So once again be more careful before you rush to a conclusion.
I did ctrl + f (find), couldn't find it.


Kabeer, be in love with only that one, whose Master is the Lord. The Pandits, the religious scholars, kings and landlords. what good is love for them? || 24 || Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart. You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. || 25 || Kabeer, the world is a room filled with black soot; the blind fall into its trap. I am a sacrifice to those who are thrown in, and still escape. || 26 || Kabeer, this body shall perish; save it, if you can. Even those who have tens of thousands and millions, must depart bare-footed in the end. || 27 || ang 1365


To understand these shabads look at what Kabeer ji is saying first. Kabeer is saying nothing else matters when you are in love with the Lord. Only the one matters. Also he is saying do not get caught up in worldly affairs so much that you forget about the overall goal.
Perfect!!! I think you're getting it now.

Keeping the hair or cutting the hair can distract a person from the ultimate goal in life.
Exactly!
The hair creates an issue for an instance cutting it every time takes time trying to making it look good for yourself or others can start eating at the person.
Why are you just talking about cutting hair? People that don't cut their hair have the same problem. A BIG generalization here!

The person constantly alters the hair to be perceived in a certain way and the person then gets tired of that look and moves on to another.
Human nature...

This will also be changed in time. nowthe person is caught up in the maya of hair and beauty and forgets the Lord.
This is why Buddhist monks shave their head.

The person starts going to hair salons spending unbelievable amount of time and money to worry about something that will turn into dust anyway.
Also the one that keeps his hair can be doing the same thing.
This is better.

Constantly worrying about how it looks spending so much time trying to make it look good and then forgetting the ultimate goal in life.
Exactly!

This theory works in both cases but keeping your hair is the better choice from the two because it was Guru Gobind Sinh Sahibs hukam,
Why is it better? Just because someone says its better??
The Gurus did NOT think that way! So why do you?

the Gurus kept their hair
Once again there is not proof that all the Gurus kept their hair uncut.

and the science also lead us to believe hair does bring us closer to the Lord.
??? Science often leaves God out of things. I don't know where you are getting this from.



These shabads are on at the end of ang 149 and at the top of ang 150. I wait for your response on this one.
Ill get back to you, once I look at them.



Just showing that God abides on every hair and the hair has use and should be kept to find out that use.
God abides everywhere. Yes hair may have a use and we must find out what that use if. I agree with that.

Otherwise Guru ji would have not put this in. Yes it is a trend and it has meaning my friend.
If Kabeer sees his lord with beautiful hair (notice how it's not "uncut"). Then let him, Guru Ji tells us that the Lord is formless.

The only thing is we humans do not know the meaning of this trend. Just because it is a trend we should not put it in the back and think nothing of it for the line has reason and meaning.
Agreed.


Hold up, read the Shabad one more time with an open mind. Lol yes it is getting repetitive which is the point. In the Sri Guru Granth Sahib the Guru tells us to repeat the lords name over and over and this gets repetitive and I don’t see you taking it so lightly. The Guru repeats what they want us to understand so easily. Now if one cuts the hair off the body then how can that person mediate on that hair.
Um, last time I check, we meditate on the infinite Lord.
If you meditate on your hair, then that's fine.

That person has loosed the opportunity to mediate on that hair.
uh...ya...

Now if we are told to constantly mediate on the lord and we take away the hair that also mediates on the lord does that make us better off or worse off?
Neither, the only thing that matters is that we are meditating.

The lord is described with hair and it has meaning to it like I said above.
The lord if defined with hair not "uncut" hair. And the lord has been defined to be formless. Sargun and Nirgun
The lord is defined to posess all attributes and no attributes. both cut hair, uncut hair and no hair come into that.


Look at it again and see why the Guru is so specific when he says who should be called in to read the sermon of the lord. The long-haired scholarly saints are the one he specifies to read the sermon of the lord. Not the one that shave their head bald, but the ones with long-hair. And it does help the reader realize hair should be kept. Because the shabad is saying only the pure one’s are to read the lord’s sermon when the Guru is gone from this earth.
The guru is biased! :rofl!!:
So the Guru calls in ones with long hair. Did he check to see if they were uncut? :rofl!!:



What! All Gurus kept their hair long. Look what the last shabad that I explained says. This is a total shock to me that you would think that any of the Guru would cut their hair.
It's a total shock to me that you think all their Gurus kept uncut hair, without any historical evidence.


The Gurus Sikhs laid their lifes down because they were told to cut there hair. Here you say there is no proof. Truly astonishing.
Buddy, the Gurus were forced to convert to a different religion! They laid down their lives because they wanted to practice their OWN beliefs. Not because they were told to cut their hair. Cutting hair after someone converted to Islam was part of the conversion process.



Dalsingh ji nicely said. But a few things I would like to point out.

When the question of hair arises in Sikhism like it has now it should be explored. Just pushing it aside is when one person can make a mistakes and end up telling others there is no use of hair.
I never said their is no use of hair, I simply commented that both haircuts and uncut hair (and nails) are God's gift. I suggest you read posts carefully before replying.

Yes arguing over the issue like animals will get you no where and only hurt the people spiritually in the longrun. Also for a person with kesh to bash a mona is wrong and the cause of this bashing is judging the person without getting to know him/her.

I totally agree people progress spiritually at there own pace, but again this issue has been brought up and it should be explored. I know it gets repetitive to bring it up over and over again but to ignore it is a mistake. The person asking the question does not know the facts and is asking for help. And for us to ignore the person would be really stupid of us. Why not share what you know of the great lord with others. It is the greatest gift one can give to another.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Hair...

think this is going nowhere?
Yes I agree.:yes:

 

[Archived_Member4]

Re: Hair...

huh?
You said, " Yes question what you want but if you do not follow Guru ji then what is the use of all the answers. "

I replied, "Did Guru Nanak (Guru Nanak Dev Ji) follow any Guru Jis? No, and yet he found a use of all the answers."

My point is we can do the same.

Elaborate more on this comment. What I think you are getting at is that we have the same spiritually connection as Guru Nanak Dev ji. Guru Nanak Dev ji was sent by God to teach us about God. So your telling me you have all the answers without reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib?

 

[Archived_Member4]

Re: Hair...


BHAIRAO, FIFTH MEHL: The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is the Inner-knower of
my heart. The Naam is so useful to me. The Lord.s Name permeates each and every hair of mine. The Perfect True Guru has
given me this gift. || 1 || ang 1144

Okay lets look what the shabad is saying. God’s name exist in each and every hair of mine. Some can say the shabad is saying God exist everywhere. But one word changes everything here. “Mine” meaning my hair. So God exist in your and my hair. Now if I cut this hair does that bring me closer to God or further? Just this action alone all other factors stay the same. Then read the next line.
So you're saying God only exists in hair?

No where in the Shabad or my explanation of the Shabad I say GOD ONLY EXIST IN HAIR. Read the Shabad again and answer the question I asked you. Then I elaborated on the next line of the shabad which was….

The Perfect True Guru has given me this gift. || 1 ||

….my explanation What gift is Guru ji referring to here? The gift of the lord’s name. The lord’s name is a gift from the True Guru and this naam permeates on every hair of mine then this hair that is on our body’s is of some use. It must have something really special about it but some do not know why it is so special.
Hair are all over your body so what that is saying is the the Lord's name is everywhere. In EACH and EVERY hair of mine. It's called figure of speech. Were not looking at a scientific document here, this is poetry!

Hair are all over your body so what that is saying is the the Lord's name is everywhere.

Yes, the lord’s name is everywhere. Just like the lord exist everywhere. You name it and the lord’s name is there.

In EACH and EVERY hair of mine. It's called figure of speech. Were not looking at a scientific document here, this is poetry!

Its not figure of speech the Guru ji means what he said here. Lord’s name is everywhere its just we cannot see it because of our arrogance and stubbornness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh (Regarding Sikh Girls)
He gives Support to the unsupported. The
Name of the Lord is the Wealth of the poor. The Lord of the Universe is the Master of the masterless; the Beautiful-haired Lord
is the Power of the weak. The Lord is Merciful to all beings, Eternal and Unchanging, the Family of the meek and humble. The
All-knowing, Perfect, Primal Lord God is the Lover of His devotees, the Embodiment of Mercy.
-1356-


Its on ang 1355 near the end and at the top of 1356. Just look more carefully, you’ll find it.
All I wanted to share with you here was that Guru ji is describing Waheguru with beautiful-hair.
Guru Ji says Waheguru has no form.

Waheguru has no form and every form. He exist here and there. He exist in the past. He exist in the present. He exist in the future. And forever and ever and ever.


This theory works in both cases but keeping your hair is the better choice from the two because it was Guru Gobind Sinh Sahibs hukam,
Why is it better? Just because someone says its better??
The Gurus did NOT think that way! So why do you?

Changing the hair only takes time out of your day and that leaves less time to mediate on the lord. So Guru ji advised us to keep it as God made it and you won’t have to go through what you described as human nature. Also you can use that hair to mediate because when we mediate our whole body mediates on the lord not just the mind.

Hold up, read the Shabad one more time with an open mind. Lol yes it is getting repetitive which is the point. In the Sri Guru Granth Sahib the Guru tells us to repeat the lords name over and over and this gets repetitive and I don’t see you taking it so lightly. The Guru repeats what they want us to understand so easily. Now if one cuts the hair off the body then how can that person mediate on that hair.
Um, last time I check, we meditate on the infinite Lord.
If you meditate on your hair, then that's fine.


I meant to say with hair. Sorry about this mistake, I should have been more careful. Here it is again with the change as it was intended

Hold up, read the Shabad one more time with an open mind. Lol yes it is getting repetitive which is the point. In the Sri Guru Granth Sahib the Guru tells us to repeat the lords name over and over and this gets repetitive and I don’t see you taking it so lightly. The Guru repeats what they want us to understand so easily. Now if one cuts the hair off the body then how can that person mediate with that hair.


That person has loosed the opportunity to mediate on that hair.

Same thing as the top meant with hair not on hair.

Now if we are told to constantly mediate on the lord and we take away the hair that also mediates on the lord does that make us better off or worse off?
Neither, the only thing that matters is that we are meditating.

We consist with hair with face with feet with arms with legs. Like I said in my above comment when a person mediates the whole body mediates. Not just one organ.

Look at it again and see why the Guru is so specific when he says who should be called in to read the sermon of the lord. The long-haired scholarly saints are the one he specifies to read the sermon of the lord. Not the one that shave their head bald, but the ones with long-hair. And it does help the reader realize hair should be kept. Because the shabad is saying only the pure one’s are to read the lord’s sermon when the Guru is gone from this earth.
The guru is biased!
So the Guru calls in ones with long hair. Did he check to see if they were uncut?

Why do you only pick one word and try to define it. Read the whole line; Guru ji is not biased but specific; there’s a difference. Guru ji is being specific here for a reason just like how he says the Lord’s name permeates on every hair of mine. You do not even try to understand what the Shabad is saying because you have closed yourself off from other views, which can be the correct views. So first open up that mind of yours. I am being serious here. I have met a lot of people that close themselves off to a different view by laughing it off. It’s a defense mechanism the mind develops when one is unable to understand what the other is saying. So the person goes on with their day without dealing with it and at the end run into a lot of problems.

What! All Gurus kept their hair long. Look what the last shabad that I explained says. This is a total shock to me that you would think that any of the Guru would cut their hair.
It's a total shock to me that you think all their Gurus kept uncut hair, without any historical evidence.

All the Gurus have one soul. And that same soul exists in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib. So Sri Guru Gobind Sahib ji told his Sikh to keep their hair then it would be hypocrite of the other Guru not to keep their hair. One soul different bodies.

The Gurus Sikhs laid their lifes down because they were told to cut there hair. Here you say there is no proof. Truly astonishing.
Buddy, the Gurus were forced to convert to a different religion! They laid down their lives because they wanted to practice their OWN beliefs. Not because they were told to cut their hair. Cutting hair after someone converted to Islam was part of the conversion process.

Here I am talking about the Gurus disciples not the Gurus

When the question of hair arises in Sikhism like it has now it should be explored. Just pushing it aside is when one person can make a mistakes and end up telling others there is no use of hair.
I never said their is no use of hair, I simply commented that both haircuts and uncut hair (and nails) are God's gift. I suggest you read posts carefully before replying.

This comment is not directed at you BhagatSingh no need to defend yourself.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Hair...

In EACH and EVERY hair of mine. It's called figure of speech. Were not looking at a scientific document here, this is poetry!

Its not figure of speech the Guru ji means what he said here. Lord’s name is everywhere its just we cannot see it because of our arrogance and stubbornness.

Ya.. thats wut I said. :}:
when Guru Ji says Lord's name is in each and every hair, what he means is the Lord is everywhere, down to the smallest level (in case, "hair" is used).
I don't know where you are going with this.
So we both agree that the Lord is everywhere? Good.

This theory works in both cases but keeping your hair is the better choice from the two because it was Guru Gobind Sinh Sahibs hukam,

Why is it better? Just because someone says its better??
The Gurus did NOT think that way! So why do you?

Changing the hair only takes time out of your day and that leaves less time to mediate on the lord. So Guru ji advised us to keep it as God made it and you won’t have to go through what you described as human nature.

Guru Ji hasn't advised us to keep hair anywhere in SGGS. What I described as human nature also applies to those who don't cut their hair. It applies to humans, hence human nature.

Also you can use that hair to mediate because when we mediate our whole body mediates on the lord not just the mind.

How does a hair meditate? what is meditation first of all?

Look at it again and see why the Guru is so specific when he says who should be called in to read the sermon of the lord. The long-haired scholarly saints are the one he specifies to read the sermon of the lord. Not the one that shave their head bald, but the ones with long-hair. And it does help the reader realize hair should be kept. Because the shabad is saying only the pure one’s are to read the lord’s sermon when the Guru is gone from this earth.

The guru is biased!
So the Guru calls in ones with long hair. Did he check to see if they were uncut?

Why do you only pick one word and try to define it. Read the whole line; Guru ji is not biased but specific; there’s a difference. Guru ji is being specific here for a reason just like how he says the Lord’s name permeates on every hair of mine. You do not even try to understand what the Shabad is saying because you have closed yourself off from other views, which can be the correct views. So first open up that mind of yours. I am being serious here. I have met a lot of people that close themselves off to a different view by laughing it off. It’s a defense mechanism the mind develops when one is unable to understand what the other is saying. So the person goes on with their day without dealing with it and at the end run into a lot of problems.

I think the message of the shabad was "Read the sermon of the Lord, and
listen to the Lord.s Name; the Guru is pleased with love for the Lord. "
NOT that the Guru invited long haired saints, so we all should keep long hair. OR that we should wonder why guru called in long-haired saints.

What! All Gurus kept their hair long. Look what the last shabad that I explained says. This is a total shock to me that you would think that any of the Guru would cut their hair.

It's a total shock to me that you think all their Gurus kept uncut hair, without any historical evidence.

All the Gurus have one soul. And that same soul exists in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

What's a soul?

So Sri Guru Gobind Sahib ji told his Sikh to keep their hair then it would be hypocrite of the other Guru not to keep their hair.

Why? Were they there to witness the 10th GUru telling people to keep hair?

The Gurus Sikhs laid their lifes down because they were told to cut there hair. Here you say there is no proof. Truly astonishing.

Buddy, the Gurus were forced to convert to a different religion! They laid down their lives because they wanted to practice their OWN beliefs. Not because they were told to cut their hair. Cutting hair after someone converted to Islam was part of the conversion process.

Here I am talking about the Gurus disciples not the Gurus

My mistake, so am I. Acutally I am talking about both.

When the question of hair arises in Sikhism like it has now it should be explored. Just pushing it aside is when one person can make a mistakes and end up telling others there is no use of hair.
I never said their is no use of hair, I simply commented that both haircuts and uncut hair (and nails) are God's gift. I suggest you read posts carefully before replying.

This comment is not directed at you BhagatSingh no need to defend yourself.

I thought I'd clear things up.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Hair...

The lord is described with hair and it has meaning to it like I said above.

The lord if defined with hair not "uncut" hair. And the lord has been defined to be formless. Sargun and Nirgun
The lord is defined to posess all attributes and no attributes. both cut hair, uncut hair and no hair come into that.

What do you say to this? You seemed to have missed it, in your last post.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Hair...

huh?
You said, " Yes question what you want but if you do not follow Guru ji then what is the use of all the answers. "
I replied, "Did Guru Nanak (Guru Nanak Dev Ji) follow any Guru Jis? No, and yet he found a use of all the answers."

My point is we can do the same.

Elaborate more on this comment.

Sure!

What I think you are getting at is that we have the same spiritually connection as Guru Nanak Dev ji.

What's a spiritually(spirituality? is it?) connection?

Guru Nanak Dev ji was sent by God

So is everyone else.
Page 27, Line 1
ਜਿਸ ਹੀ ਕੀ ਸਿਰਕਾਰ ਹੈ ਤਿਸ ਹੀ ਕਾ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥
जिस ही की सिरकार है तिस ही का सभु कोइ ॥
Jis hī kī sirkār hai ṯis hī kā sabẖ ko*ė.
Everyone belongs to the One who rules the Universe.
Page 35, Line 1
ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਆਪੇ ਆਪਿ ਹੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਕਹਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
सभ किछु आपे आपि है हउमै विचि कहनु न जाइ ॥
Sabẖ kicẖẖ āpė āp hai ha*umai vicẖ kahan na jā*ė.
God Himself is everything; those who are in their ego cannot even speak of this.

to teach us about God.

Guru Nanak's main purpose was to teach the humanity how to live together and become one with the Lord.
Page 62, Line 11
ਸਚਹੁ ਓਰੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਉਪਰਿ ਸਚੁ ਆਚਾਰੁ ॥੫॥
सचहु ओरै सभु को उपरि सचु आचारु ॥५॥
Sacẖahu orai sabẖ ko upar sacẖ ācẖār. ||5||
Truth is higher than everything; but higher still is truthful living. ||5||

and


ਪਹਿਲਾ ਸਚੁ ਹਲਾਲ ਦੁਇ ਤੀਜਾ ਖੈਰ ਖੁਦਾਇ ॥
पहिला सचु हलाल दुइ तीजा खैर खुदाइ ॥
Pahilā sacẖ halāl ḏu*ė ṯījā kẖair kẖuḏā*ė.
Let the first be truthfulness, the second honest living, and the third charity in the Name of God.

ਚਉਥੀ ਨੀਅਤਿ ਰਾਸਿ ਮਨੁ ਪੰਜਵੀ ਸਿਫਤਿ ਸਨਾਇ ॥
चउथी नीअति रासि मनु पंजवी सिफति सनाइ ॥
Cẖa*uthī nī*aṯ rās man panjvī sifaṯ sanā*ė.
Let the fourth be good will to all, and the fifth the praise of the Lord.
(page 141)


He says, anyone who tries to describe God is the biggest fool.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਬੋਲੁਵਿਗਾੜੁ ॥
जे को आखै बोलुविगाड़ु ॥
Jė ko ākẖai boluvigāṛ.
If anyone presumes to describe God,

ਤਾ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਸਿਰਿ ਗਾਵਾਰਾ ਗਾਵਾਰੁ ॥੨੬॥
ता लिखीऐ सिरि गावारा गावारु ॥२६॥
Ŧā likī*ai sir gāvārā gāvār. ||26||
he shall be known as the greatest fool of fools! ||26||
(page 6)

So your telling me you have all the answers without reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib?

No and my friend even SGGS doesn't have all the answers.
Page 5, Line 2
ਨਾਨਕ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਪੌ ਜਾਣੈ ਅਗੈ ਗਇਆ ਨ ਸੋਹੈ ॥੨੧॥
नानक जे को आपौ जाणै अगै गइआ न सोहै ॥२१॥
Nānak jė ko āpou jāṇai agai ga*i*ā na sohai. ||21||
O Nanak, one who claims to know everything shall not be decorated in the world hereafter. ||21||

Page 965, Line 7
ਜੀਆ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਜਾਣਲਾ ॥
जीआ अंदरि जीउ सभु किछु जाणला ॥
Jī*ā anḏar jī*o sabẖ kicẖẖ jāṇlā.
You are the Soul within all souls; You alone know everything.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Originally Posted by Singh
Hearing the Bani of the Lord.s Name, all my affairs were brought to
perfection and embellished. With each and every hair, with each and every hair, as Gurmukh, I meditate on the Lord. I
meditate on the Lord.s Name, and become pure; He has no form or shape. The Name of the Lord, Raam, Raam, is permeating
my heart deep within, and all of my desire and hunger has disappeared. My mind and body are totally adorned with peace and
tranquility; through the Guru.s Teachings, the Lord has been revealed to me. The Lord Himself has shown His kind mercy to
Nanak; He has made me the slave of the slaves of His slaves. || 3 || ang 443

BHAIRAO, FIFTH MEHL: The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is the Inner-knower of
my heart. The Naam is so useful to me. The Lord.s Name permeates each and every hair of mine. The Perfect True Guru has
given me this gift. || 1 || ang 1144

Alright, I'll explain this again. The shabad on ang 1144 is specifically talking about hair here. Guru ji is saying on every hair of mine the Lord's name permeates. It is not saying only on hair but being specific. Then read the Shabad on ang 443 which i have provided. Here Guru ji is saying hearing the lords name all my affairs have been dealt with and as a Gurmukh I meditate on each and every hair of mine on the Lord.

Now to figure out what use the hair has we just got to understand these two shabads. Guru ji is telling us that with these hairs we can meditate on the Lord's name. Guru ji is telling us these hairs meditate on the Lord's name. So keeping the hair uncut has some use.

You still haven't answered my question here.Now if I cut this hair does that bring me closer to God or further?Just this action alone all other factors stay the same.


You asked what is meditation?

It is to concentrate the mind on one thing.

Also you asked how does a hair meditate?

How does the mind meditate. The same way

Guru Ji hasn't advised us to keep hair anywhere in SGGS. What I described as human nature also applies to those who don't cut their hair. It applies to humans, hence human nature.

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji has advised us to keep our hair.


And I am still waiting for your response on this Shabad

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh (Regarding Sikh Girls) (Regarding Sikh Girls)
SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: They pluck the hair out of their heads, and drink in filthy water;
they beg endlessly and eat the garbage which others have thrown away. They spread manure, they suck in rotting smells, and
they are afraid of clean water. Their hands are smeared with ashes, and the hair on their heads is plucked out.they are like
sheep! They have renounced the lifestyle of their mothers and fathers, and their families and relatives cry out in distress. No
one offers the rice dishes at their last rites, and no one lights the lamps for them. After their death, where will they be sent?
The sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage give them no place of protection, and no Brahmin will eat their food. They remain
polluted forever, day and night; they do not apply the ceremonial tilak mark to their foreheads. They sit together in silence, as
if in mourning; they do not go to the Lord.s Court. With their begging bowls hanging from their waists, and their fly-brushes in
their hands, they walk along in single file. They are not Yogis, and they are not Jangams, followers of Shiva.
-150-

They are not Qazis or Mullahs. Ruined by the Merciful Lord, they wander around in disgrace, and their entire troop is
contaminated. The Lord alone kills and restores to life; no one else can protect anyone from Him. They go without giving alms
or any cleansing baths; their shaven heads become covered with dust. The jewel emerged from the water, when the mountain
of gold was used to churn it. The gods established the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage, where the festivals are
celebrated and hymns are chanted. After bathing, the Muslims recite their prayers, and after bathing, the Hindus perform their
worship services. The wise always take cleansing baths. At the time of death, and at the time of birth, they are purified, when
water is poured on their heads. O Nanak, the shaven-headed ones are devils. They are not pleased to hear these words. When
it rains, there is happiness. Water is the key to all life. When it rains, the corn grows, and the sugar cane, and the cotton,
which provides clothing for all. When it rains, the cows always have grass to graze upon, and housewives can churn the milk
into butter. With that ghee, sacred feasts and worship services are performed; all these efforts are blessed. The Guru is the
ocean, and all His Teachings are the river. Bathing within it, glorious greatness is obtained. O Nanak, if the shaven-headed
ones do not bathe, then seven handfuls of ashes are upon their heads. || 1 || ang 150

 

[Archived_Member4]

I asked you a couple of post back this question.BhagatSingh ji, Why would Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji give the order to the Sikhs to keep their hair and why did the Gurus keep their hair uncut?
I don't know I am not Guru Gobind Singh. (been bashed on this forum for formulating a hypothesis of what Guru GObind singh would have thought when doing a certain action. SO I won't be getting into that again):yes:
No proof of whether the other Gurus kept their hair uncut.

Now since you do not know the answer and you accept the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as your Guru, which also means you accept Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji, then why do you say the Guru did not say we should or shouldn't keep our hair????? Because clearly Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji said every Sikh must keep their hair.:idea:

 

[BhagatSingh]

Originally Posted by Singh
Hearing the Bani of the Lord.s Name, all my affairs were brought to
perfection and embellished. With each and every hair, with each and every hair, as Gurmukh, I meditate on the Lord. I
meditate on the Lord.s Name, and become pure; He has no form or shape. The Name of the Lord, Raam, Raam, is permeating
my heart deep within, and all of my desire and hunger has disappeared. My mind and body are totally adorned with peace and
tranquility; through the Guru.s Teachings, the Lord has been revealed to me. The Lord Himself has shown His kind mercy to
Nanak; He has made me the slave of the slaves of His slaves. || 3 || ang 443

BHAIRAO, FIFTH MEHL: The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is the Inner-knower of
my heart. The Naam is so useful to me. The Lord.s Name permeates each and every hair of mine. The Perfect True Guru has
given me this gift. || 1 || ang 1144

Alright, I'll explain this again. The shabad on ang 1144 is specifically talking about hair here. Guru ji is saying on every hair of mine the Lord's name permeates. It is not saying only on hair but being specific. Then read the Shabad on ang 443 which i have provided. Here Guru ji is saying hearing the lords name all my affairs have been dealt with and as a Gurmukh I meditate on each and every hair of mine on the Lord.

Now to figure out what use the hair has we just got to understand these two shabads. Guru ji is telling us that with these hairs we can meditate on the Lord's name.

Guru ji is saying that with these hairs, he meditates on the Lord's name. There IS a difference.
He is saying that every part of him meditates! To the extent of each and every hair...get it?
It's not telling you to keep your hair uncut. You are missing the whole point of the shabad by concentrating on bits that are unimportant.

Guru ji is telling us these hairs meditate on the Lord's name.

Wrong. Guru ji is saying that every part of him meditates on the Lord. Not that the hair meditates on the Lord.

So keeping the hair uncut has some use.

Jumping to conclusions are we?
How you are coming to that conclusion remains a mystery to me. I think maybe you are seeing extra lines in the shabad, I don't know.

You still haven't answered my question here.Now if I cut this hair does that bring me closer to God or further?Just this action alone all other factors stay the same.

You are not giving me enough choices. I would say it does nothing. Keep your hair or lose it, its the same, when it comes to how close it brings you to God. If it wasn't like that then according to you Buddhist monks and anyone who cuts hair, are wasting their time. No my friend,
ਕਬੀਰਪ੍ਰੀਤਿਇਕਸਿਉਕੀਏਆਨਦੁਬਿਧਾਜਾਇ॥
कबीरप्रीतिइकसिउकीएआनदुबिधाजाइ॥
Kabīr parīṯ ik si*o kī*ė ān ḏubiḏẖā jā*ė.
Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.

ਭਾਵੈਲਾਂਬੇਕੇਸਕਰੁਭਾਵੈਘਰਰਿਮੁਡਾਇ॥੨੫॥
भावैलांबेकेसकरुभावैघररिमुडाइ॥२५॥
Bẖāvai lāʼnbė kės kar bẖāvai gẖarar mudā*ė. ||25||
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||

In fact, many Bhagats did cut their hair, and the Gurus may have cut their hair as well. If the Gurus were against cutting hair they would have never put in that hymn from Kabeer, in the SGGS, and Guru Gobind Singh ji would have taken it out.

You asked what is meditation?

It is to concentrate the mind on one thing.

Ok...

Also you asked how does a hair meditate?

How does the mind meditate. The same way

"to concentrate the mind on one thing"? So a hair concentrates its mind on one thing... explains a ton. Definitely dumps that biology lecture out the drain. Hair are made of protein and they do not have a mind. Let's keep the facts straight, shall we?

Guru Ji hasn't advised us to keep hair anywhere in SGGS. What I described as human nature also applies to those who don't cut their hair. It applies to humans, hence human nature.

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji has advised us to keep our hair.

You are going back to my post where I asked "why?" on this EXACT same reply.
Again, why?

And I am still waiting for your response on this Shabad

SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: They pluck the hair out of their heads, and drink in filthy water;
they beg endlessly and eat the garbage which others have thrown away. They spread manure, they suck in rotting smells, and
they are afraid of clean water. Their hands are smeared with ashes, and the hair on their heads is plucked out.they are like
sheep! They have renounced the lifestyle of their mothers and fathers, and their families and relatives cry out in distress. No
one offers the rice dishes at their last rites, and no one lights the lamps for them. After their death, where will they be sent?
The sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage give them no place of protection, and no Brahmin will eat their food. They remain
polluted forever, day and night; they do not apply the ceremonial tilak mark to their foreheads. They sit together in silence, as
if in mourning; they do not go to the Lord.s Court. With their begging bowls hanging from their waists, and their fly-brushes in
their hands, they walk along in single file. They are not Yogis, and they are not Jangams, followers of Shiva.
-149**-

They are not Qazis or Mullahs. Ruined by the Merciful Lord, they wander around in disgrace, and their entire troop is
contaminated. The Lord alone kills and restores to life; no one else can protect anyone from Him. They go without giving alms
or any cleansing baths; their shaven heads become covered with dust. The jewel emerged from the water, when the mountain
of gold was used to churn it. The gods established the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage, where the festivals are
celebrated and hymns are chanted. After bathing, the Muslims recite their prayers, and after bathing, the Hindus perform their
worship services. The wise always take cleansing baths. At the time of death, and at the time of birth, they are purified, when
water is poured on their heads. O Nanak, the shaven-headed ones are devils. They are not pleased to hear these words. When
it rains, there is happiness. Water is the key to all life. When it rains, the corn grows, and the sugar cane, and the cotton,
which provides clothing for all. When it rains, the cows always have grass to graze upon, and housewives can churn the milk
into butter. With that ghee, sacred feasts and worship services are performed; all these efforts are blessed. The Guru is the
ocean, and all His Teachings are the river. it,Bathing within glorious greatness is obtained. O Nanak, if the shaven-headed
ones do not bathe, then seven handfuls of ashes are upon their heads. || 1 || ang 150

Sorry I forgot about that.

:}: Nothing here that says to me don't cut your hair/ don't shave your head.
I think this passage talks about keeping clean. Both mentally and physically.

on a side note: for people who do not bathe, it is often more hygienic for them to shave their heads, faces, armpit hair and pubic hair, and that's because of the large surface area of hair, it accumulates a lot of dust, dirt, sweat, etc, and one can be infected with lice and diseases.

 

[BhagatSingh]

I asked you a couple of post back this question.BhagatSingh ji, Why would Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji give the order to the Sikhs to keep their hair and why did the Gurus keep their hair uncut?

I don't know I am not Guru Gobind Singh. (been bashed on this forum for formulating a hypothesis of what Guru GObind singh would have thought when doing a certain action. SO I won't be getting into that again):yes:
No proof of whether the other Gurus kept their hair uncut.

Now since you do not know the answer and you accept the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as your Guru, which also means you accept Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji, then why do you say the Guru did not say we should or shouldn't keep our hair????? Because clearly Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji said every Sikh must keep their hair.:idea:

Why must every Sikh keep hair?

 

[Archived_Member4]

BhagatSingh Ji, I have one question. Do you accept Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as your Guru? Which means you accpet all the other Gurus from Guru Nanak Dev ji to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji of Sikhism.

 

[BhagatSingh]

BhagatSingh Ji, I have one question. Do you accept Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as your Guru? Which means you accpet all the other Gurus from Guru Nanak Dev ji to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji of Sikhism.

Yes, I do but why do you ask, when I have said, "Bottomline, our Gurus weren't brainless zombies and neither am I."?

 

[Archived_Member4]

BhagatSingh ji, Read what Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji has to say and Guru Nanak Dev ji on this issue. Also read the paragraph were it says hair has more use than just biological functions

Bhai Desa Singh, records Guru Gobind Singh Ji's given discipline in a Rehitnaama (Order of discipline):
ਜਬ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਸਬ ਸਿ੍ਰਸਿਟ ਉਪਾਈ । ਤਬ ਹੀ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹਿ ਬਨਾਈ ।
ਤਨ ਇਸ ਕੇ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਜੁ ਦੀਨੋ । ਸੋ ਇਹ ਤਨ ਸ਼ਿੰਗਾਰਿਹ ਕੀਨੋ ।
ਦਾੜ੍ਹਾ ਮੁੱਛ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਬਨਾਈ । ਹੈ ਇਹ ਦਿ੍ੜ ਜਿਹ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਰਜ਼ਾਈ ।
ਮੇਟ ਰਜ਼ਾਇ ਜੁ ਸੀਸ ਮੁੰਡਾਵੈ । ਕਹੁ ਤੇ ਜਗ ਕੈਸੇ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਵੈ ।
“God created the whole universe and then he fashioned the human body. He gave man a beard, moustaches and hair on the head. He who submits to His Will steadfastly adheres to them. They who deny His Will how will they find God in this world?”

The Janam Saakhis quote Guru Nanak Dev Ji saying:
ਸਾਬਤ ਸੂਰਤ ਰੱਬ ਦੀ, ਭੰਨੇ ਬੇਈਮਾਨ।
ਦਰਗਹਿ ਢੋਈ ਨਾ ਮਿਲੇ, ਕਾਫ਼ਰ, ਕੁੱਤਾ, ਸ਼ੈਤਾਨ।
"God has made the human perfect, but the dishonourable destroy it.
They will find no place in the Court of God, like the unbeliever, dog and Satanist."

Bhai Sahib Singh (one of the original Panj Pyaare), records Guru Gobind Singh Ji's given discipline in a Rehitnaama (Order of discipline):
ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਛਾਪ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਕੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ, ਦੇਇ ਉਤਾਰ ਸੋ ਬੇਮੁਖ ਜਾਨਹੁ।
ਬੇਟੇ ਕੋ ਬੰਧੁ ਕੋ ਛਾਪ ਮੁੰਡਾਵਤ, ਜਮ ਦੁਖ ਭੋਗ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਪਛਾਨਹੁ।
"The Guru's stamp is Kesh and (Khandi di) Pahul, one who removes (their Kesh) is known as an apostate (bemukh). One who shaves the stamp (of the Guru) of their child (i.e. cut their children's hair), realise that person will suffer a terrible death and known as a ghost."

As well as having biological functions and benefits, the hair is sacred due to the fact that spiritual energy abides within each and every pore of hair on the body. The hairs are like electrical wires, which preserve, carry and vibrate energy. When one chants & meditates the Divine- Name (Naam), each hair vibrates. Sikhs do not forcibly or intentionally remove any hair from the body but maintain clean hair with proper washing; tying and keeping them covered are requirements for a Sikh.
Gurbaani (the Divine Word) says:
ਰੋਮ ਰੋਮ ਮਹਿ ਬਸਹਿ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ॥
“On each and every hair, the Lord abides.”
(Ang 344)
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥
“The Gurmukh meditates on the Lord with every hair of his body.”
(Ang 941)

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[satwant]

I find this argument that "where in sri guru granth sahib ji it said that we cannot cut hair" is absolutely stupid. this is a talk of a 3 or 4 yr old child. as soon as you question as to where it is written and need proof, it is so obvious you are a person trying to justify your action by questioning the beliefs of the religion.

you want to cut hair or you already have but you question the fundamentals of the religion. the 5 k's were introduced by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Then, you are just questioning the jusrtification of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

You cut nails beacuse they carry germs in your finger nails. we eat with our hands. we wash our *** with our hands. science will tell you that it is hygienice to cut nails. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji did not made it compulsory not to cut nails becasue he knows of the benefits of cutting nails. Just like his horse that refuse to cross the filed that was growing tobacco. today we have doctors and everyone telling us that smoking is bad.

it tells us that our Gurus had foresight. Yet, today, I have my sikh brothers and sisters questioning why must we cut hair, why cant we smoke. What a shame.

Satwant

 

[BhagatSingh]

BhagatSingh ji, Read what Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji has to say and Guru Nanak Dev ji on this issue. Also read the paragraph were it says hair has more use than just biological functions

Bhai Desa Singh, records Guru Gobind Singh Ji's given discipline in a Rehitnaama (Order of discipline):
ਜਬ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਸਬ ਸਿ੍ਰਸਿਟ ਉਪਾਈ । ਤਬ ਹੀ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹਿ ਬਨਾਈ ।
ਤਨ ਇਸ ਕੇ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਜੁ ਦੀਨੋ । ਸੋ ਇਹ ਤਨ ਸ਼ਿੰਗਾਰਿਹ ਕੀਨੋ ।
ਦਾੜ੍ਹਾ ਮੁੱਛ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਬਨਾਈ । ਹੈ ਇਹ ਦਿ੍ੜ ਜਿਹ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਰਜ਼ਾਈ ।
ਮੇਟ ਰਜ਼ਾਇ ਜੁ ਸੀਸ ਮੁੰਡਾਵੈ । ਕਹੁ ਤੇ ਜਗ ਕੈਸੇ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਵੈ ।
“God created the whole universe and then he fashioned the human body. He gave man a beard, moustaches and hair on the head. He who submits to His Will steadfastly adheres to them. They who deny His Will how will they find God in this world?”

Gurbani tells me that no one can deny his WILL, everyone is subject to it!
Page 1, Line 9
ਹੁਕਮੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਹੁਕਮ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
हुकमै अंदरि सभु को बाहरि हुकम न कोइ ॥
Hukmai anḏar sabẖ ko bāhar hukam na ko*ė.
Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command.
Guru Nanak Dev

I would take the rehitnamas with a "pinch of salt" if I were you.

The Janam Saakhis quote Guru Nanak Dev Ji saying:
ਸਾਬਤ ਸੂਰਤ ਰੱਬ ਦੀ, ਭੰਨੇ ਬੇਈਮਾਨ।
ਦਰਗਹਿ ਢੋਈ ਨਾ ਮਿਲੇ, ਕਾਫ਼ਰ, ਕੁੱਤਾ, ਸ਼ੈਤਾਨ।
"God has made the human perfect, but the dishonourable destroy it.
They will find no place in the Court of God, like the unbeliever, dog and Satanist."

Ok.
Again, same thing with janamsakhis, take them with a pinch of salt.
Can you send the links to the resources from where you found these?
And why isn't this is the Guru Granth Sahib? I mean it's a good quote, seriously.
As much as I love the quote I doubt Guru Nanak Dev ji would say humans are perfect.
I can counter it is with the following quote from SGGS written by Nanak:
Page 17, Line 11
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪੂਰਾ ਜੇ ਕਰੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਾਚੁ ਅਤੋਲੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
गुरमुखि पूरा जे करे पाईऐ साचु अतोलु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Gurmukẖ pūrā jė karė pā*ī*ai sācẖ aṯol. ||1|| rahā*o.
One who attains perfection as Gurmukh, obtains the Immeasurable True Lord. ||1||Pause||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Again, I would like to clear up:
I don't mean to discourage anyone who keeps their Kes. My point is that keeping Kes is one's personal choice and has nothing to do with spirituality of that person.

Bhai Sahib Singh (one of the original Panj Pyaare), records Guru Gobind Singh Ji's given discipline in a Rehitnaama (Order of discipline):
ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਛਾਪ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਕੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ, ਦੇਇ ਉਤਾਰ ਸੋ ਬੇਮੁਖ ਜਾਨਹੁ।
ਬੇਟੇ ਕੋ ਬੰਧੁ ਕੋ ਛਾਪ ਮੁੰਡਾਵਤ, ਜਮ ਦੁਖ ਭੋਗ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਪਛਾਨਹੁ।
"The Guru's stamp is Kesh and (Khandi di) Pahul, one who removes (their Kesh) is known as an apostate (bemukh). One who shaves the stamp (of the Guru) of their child (i.e. cut their children's hair), realise that person will suffer a terrible death and known as a ghost."

This is Bhai Sahib's Singh's opinion. If he wishes to think so then let him. Gurbani tells me no such thing, and I doubt the original 5 Pyarey would say something like this. If they did then that's fine, but I doubt it.

As well as having biological functions and benefits, the hair is sacred due to the fact that spiritual energy abides within each and every pore of hair on the body. The hairs are like electrical wires, which preserve, carry and vibrate energy. When one chants & meditates the Divine- Name (Naam), each hair vibrates. Sikhs do not forcibly or intentionally remove any hair from the body but maintain clean hair with proper washing; tying and keeping them covered are requirements for a Sikh.

I would like to see those biological functions and benefits, at least in document. Has a study ever been done on hair that states they contain spiritual energy?
If so I would like to see it If not then I would like to see studies being done. Maybe Das will do a study, being a biologist in training. :yes:

Gurbaani (the Divine Word) says:
ਰੋਮ ਰੋਮ ਮਹਿ ਬਸਹਿ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ॥
“On each and every hair, the Lord abides.”
(Ang 344)

Again, God abides everywhere, so this is nothing new. The shabad must be put in to context before the message becomes clear.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥
“The Gurmukh meditates on the Lord with every hair of his body.”
(Ang 941)

Again, shabad must be put in to context before the message becomes clear.
Since you insist that this quote says we should keep hair. I will say that since it doesnt say the hair has to be uncut, we can safely say that it is not telling us "don't cut hair".
http://medicalimages.allrefer.com/large/hair-follicle-anatomy.jpgEven if the hair is cut/shaved, a part of it exists near and underneath the skin.

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[BhagatSingh]

I find this argument that "where in sri guru granth sahib ji it said that we cannot cut hair" is absolutely stupid. this is a talk of a 3 or 4 yr old child.

This is an insult to anyone who wishes to talk about this topic. Lucky for you, I will not lower myself to your insults.
But since you have taken the time to reply to the topic, I will answer your post with utmost respect.

"where in sri guru granth sahib ji it said that we cannot cut hair"
You forgot to add a question mark, because in fact, this is a question, not an argument, and no question is stupid. In reality, this question is asked very often, so it must be very important to answer. I appreciate the effort Singh has put in to try and answer it.
For me the the answer remains: No, SGGS does not tell us to keep our hair uncut. It's a personal choice.
In fact, SGGS is not a Do's and Don't's list.
---------------------

as soon as you question as to where it is written and need proof, it is so obvious you are a person trying to justify your action by questioning the beliefs of the religion.

Satwant ji, the sky is green. Don't ask any questions and believe that! If you question then you are trying to justify your belief of a blue sky by questioning the beliefs of the religion, Green Skyism.
------------------------

you want to cut hair or you already have but you question the fundamentals of the religion.

Are you talking about me in that quote? If so, its big assumption, not a good thing on your part.
---------------------------

the 5 k's were introduced by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Then, you are just questioning the jusrtification of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

I am questioning Guru Gobind Singh ji's introduction of kesh as one of the five k's, not his justification. I am actually looking for his justification on this topic.
--------------------------

You cut nails beacuse they carry germs in your finger nails.

That's not why I cut my nails. Please read the very first post on this topic to see my reasoning for cutting nails. When nails get dirty, we can easily clean them. Many women are into this fashion, keeping long nails.
For your convenience, I present you with my response to why we cut nails:

Our nails grow since they are meant to be used quite a lot. If they didn't continue to grow continuously during our lifetimes, they would eventually erode away, leaving nothing behind. Which sucks though, because we need them. (If you have a hard time grasping this concept then look at beaver's teeth, claws of lion, tiger, etc)

In our society, we would need to cut our nails because we don't use our hands alot (we use tools, which protect out hands and nails). So to keep our nails short and manegeable, we simply cut them instead of scraping them along harder/rougher surfaces.

-----------------------------

we eat with our hands. we wash our *** with our hands. science will tell you that it is hygienice to cut nails.

I believe you missed my side note in an earlier post, so I suggest you go back and read the posts.
Here is my side note:

on a side note: for people who do not bathe, it is often more hygienic for them to shave their heads, faces, armpit hair and pubic hair, and that's because of the large surface area of hair, it accumulates a lot of dust, dirt, sweat, etc, and one can be infected with lice and diseases.

Same thing can be said for nails. IF you don't keep them clean, then it's hygeinic to cut them.
----------------------------

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji did not made it compulsory not to cut nails becasue he knows of the benefits of cutting nails. Just like his horse that refuse to cross the filed that was growing tobacco. today we have doctors and everyone telling us that smoking is bad.

Yes, and if Singhs didn't cut their nails back then, they would have lost all battles as they would have trouble doing their daily chores, with a metre long, curled up nails.
--------------------

it tells us that our Gurus had foresight.

I don't know about that but it sure tells us Guru ji wasn't backwards.
---------------------

Yet, today, I have my sikh brothers and sisters questioning why must we cut hair, why cant we smoke.

Today, you have a another brother asking, " Why can't we question anything?"
------------------

What a shame.

Truly, a shame!
--------------------

Satwant

Bhagat Singh

 

[Archived_Member4]

Finally, the True Guru said, .When I am gone, sing Kirtan in Praise of the Lord, in Nirvaanaa.. Call in the long-haired scholarly Saints of the Lord, to read the sermon of the Lord, Har, Har. Read the sermon of the Lord, and listen to the Lord.s Name; the Guru is pleased with love for the Lord. Do not bother with offering rice-***** on leaves, lighting lamps, and other rituals like floating the body out on the Ganges; instead, let my remains be given up to the Lord.s Pool. The Lord was pleased as the True Guru spoke; he was blended then with the all-knowing Primal Lord God. Ang 923

The Guru then blessed the Sodhi Ram Das with the ceremonial tilak mark, the insignia of the True Word of the Shabad. || 5 || ang 924

This Shabad is telling a sakhi when Guru Amar Das ji left this earth and Guru Ram Das Ji was appointed the next Guru. And Guru Amar Das JI said at the time when I am gone sing Kirtan in praise of the Lord and call in the long-haired Scholarly Saints of the Lord to read the sermon of the Lord. Then Guru Amar Das ji says read the sermon of the lord and listen to the lord’s name. And don’t bother with performing rituals.

Yes it does say read the sermon of the Lord, but who should read it the long-haired scholarly saints of the LORD at that time when Guru Amar Das ji left this earth.. They are not just long-haired but scholarly and saints. This is a perfect example why a Sikh should keep the hair uncut. When Guru ji directly asked for specific Sikhs to read the sermons of the lord. There is no need to wonder why he called them to read the sermon of the Lord because he says why in the next three words ‘of the Lord.’ The long-haired scholarly saints are of the Lord.

Guru ji is saying that with these hairs, he meditates on the Lord's name. There IS a difference.
He is saying that every part of him meditates! To the extent of each and every hair...get it?
It's not telling you to keep your hair uncut. You are missing the whole point of the shabad by concentrating on bits that are unimportant.

Exactly, every part of the body mediates on the Lord’s name and the body consists of hair which also meditates. See you have said it yourself to the extent that each and every hair. There you have it. The hair as a use it meditates when the person meditates. Guru ji is telling us that the hair and the whole body meditates when the person meditates. Guru ji is not just saying his hair alone can meditate on the Lord but everyone else’s.

The hair on top of the head are like antenna’s that pick up on signals and we can use these hairs to get a higher frequency when they are kept long and uncut. When these hairs are tied on top of the head in a round ball they can pick up even higher frequency’s. Then the reason why we wear a pagg is because to keep this frequency on one channel. Also the reason why Buddhists shave their head bald is because then they don’t pick up on so many frequency which will make it difficult for them to meditate on nothing. This helps the Buddhist monks concentrate easier on what they are meditating on.

Wrong. Guru ji is saying that every part of him meditates on the Lord. Not that the hair meditates on the Lord.

The hair is part of the body is it not. The body has hair on it and this is one part of Guru jis and our bodies. The body when brought into this world has hair on it.

Jumping to conclusions are we?

How you are coming to that conclusion remains a mystery to me. I think maybe you are seeing extra lines in the shabad, I don't know.

BhagatSingh ji, first you say, “Guru ji is saying that with these hairs, he meditates on the Lord's name.” and now you are asking me how I came to the conclusion that the hair has some use. When you cut that hair off it no longer is on the body and the person cannot meditate with that hair. The use of this hair is that it meditates with the person on the Lord.

You are not giving me enough choices. I would say it does nothing. Keep your hair or lose it, its the same, when it comes to how close it brings you to God. If it wasn't like that then according to you Buddhist monks and anyone who cuts hair, are wasting their time. No my friend,
ਕਬੀਰਪ੍ਰੀਤਿਇਕਸਿਉਕੀਏਆਨਦੁਬਿਧਾਜਾਇ॥
कबीरप्रीतिइकसिउकीएआनदुबिधाजाइ॥
Kabīr parīṯ ik si*o kī*ė ān ḏubiḏẖā jā*ė.
Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.

ਭਾਵੈਲਾਂਬੇਕੇਸਕਰੁਭਾਵੈਘਰਰਿਮੁਡਾਇ॥੨੫॥
भावैलांबेकेसकरुभावैघररिमुडाइ॥२५॥
Bẖāvai lāʼnbė kės kar bẖāvai gẖarar mudā*ė. ||25||
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||

Look at the first line of the Shabad it says WHEN you are in love with the One Lord. For this line to apply for anyone in this world they would have to be one with the Lord. Once you reach this stage then anything you do is true. This is what Kabeer ji is saying. And only WHEN you reach this stage in your life this Shabad apply to you.

In fact, many Bhagats did cut their hair, and the Gurus may have cut their hair as well. If the Gurus were against cutting hair they would have never put in that hymn from Kabeer, in the SGGS, and Guru Gobind Singh ji would have taken it out.

Try to understand what Kabeer ji is saying and the best way to do this is by looking at what Kabeer ji is saying before this Shabad and right after it. Kabeer ji is talking about love for the Lord before these Shabads. He is saying the world is full of maya and to love this maya, and in these lines maya is being referred to as people, is usless,. And then he goes on to say only to love the one whose master is the Lord. Then the Shabads that comes after the lines that you have quoted is saying the world is full of other maya as well and the people that are attached to this maya fall in the trap and lose. Kabeer ji is saying once the duality alienation depart and you are in total love with the Lord THEN whatever you do is always true.