Hair/ਬਾਲ

[Archived_Member4]

Come on Dal Birk. This is very uncharitable of you and not like you to act in such a manner.

As for hair, when does one actually become a Sikh? After growing hair? or before? Or does something else happen?

If it was all about hair, then I can assure you in the UK we have many long haired bhangi Lafanghaay who do not represent Sikhim what soever, and long hair is seen as a fashion thing.

Lets take this subject seriously as Grewal ji has tried to. Debate it in a rational manner. Debate the subject and not the person.

Regards

As for hair, when does one actually become a Sikh? After growing hair? or before? Or does something else happen?

If it was all about hair, then I can assure you in the UK we have many long haired bhangi Lafanghaay who do not represent Sikhim what soever, and long hair is seen as a fashion thing.

Its not all about hair, but hair keeping of the hair for a Sikh is a must. Once again im stressthe word Sikh. When will we get away from this petty agruement and accept the Tenth Nanak Hukam for what it is. If you want to be the Sikh of the Guru then you give your head not a broken finger nail.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

How can the Janeau be compared to the 5 Kakaars ?
1. Janeau is BY BIRTH....a different one for each Caste.
2. Janeau is FORCED UPON a Hindu..as was on Guru nanak ji.
3. The Janeau "confers" Caste consciousness/superiroty/inferiroty.....not RESPONSIBILITY.
4. The Janeau is "automatically renewed" by the Brahmin..no questions asked !!
5. There is absolutley no discipline/rehat involved - once worn..the janeau stays on till it breaks naturally due to wear and tear...and then replaced !!

The Kakaars are completley VOLUNTARY...an adult SIKH requests them from the Panj...as a BLESSING.
ANYONE can apply. Even a BORN SIKH ..is not automatically a Khalsa
The Kakaars ENFORCE EQUALITY...REMOVE DISCRIMINATORY CASTE etc.
The Kakakrs CANNOT be automatically RENEWED - there is a procedure/tankhah/acceptance/renewal.
The Kakars place HEAVY RESPONSIBILITY on the wearer of a DISCIPLINE/REHAT.

Guru Ji condemned the Janeau/Frontal marks/Tilaks etc as OSTENTATIOUS SHOW of spirituality.... But the Kakars and the Khalsa Discipline/rehat etc are so completley different in OBJECTIVE/Application/ and RESULT.

Still people who just cant bear with the discipline required, and wish to cut their hair..go seek and search deep to justify their own weakness. Actually they neednt do that at all...there is NO COMPULSION in SIKHI.....just be yourself..without guilt.....and justification attempts. Ignore those who do the opposite - no one can force you to grow long hair/wear dastaar if you dont want to. Period.
Its a Game of LOVE..Jin prem kio tin PRABH paiyoh...if you feel your Prabh loves you with your looks..so be it...let others do it their way...just stop twisting Gurbani to different ends and reading between the lines. Love for All....

 

[dalbirk]

Dear Mohinder Ji,

There is no meter to find out the pleasure of God. It is the individual mental peace (Tranquility) or individual spiritual experience which can make him/her understand Its mystery. Spiritual experience cannot be duplicated or shown. So your question is out of place. There are 6.5 billion people in this world while the people with hairs may be 1.5 million and out of them how many has attained serenity? Every day ratio wise we hear what do they do in the Gurudwaras etc. Question is that these 1.5 million always talk about hair or other symbols but not of virtues and good deeds. Guru Nanak specifically condemned all religious symbols. You mean to say that Sikh symbols are superior to Hindu frontal mark or sacred thread. When will you stop judging others? Each individual should be concerned about his/her spirituality.
Let us finally agree to disagree as usual. I have already requested for the moderators to end this thread as it is getting no where. My original comments were that this is a sensitive thread and no where it is written in AGGS that cutting the hair interferes in individual spirituality thus answering the question of the individual.
Regards.
Virinder

I know I'm offending many many people , some really good members like Randip Singh Ji to whom I shall be indebted for my whole life for his thread on MEAT EATING . I've forwarded this link to at least 20 of my friends , all of whom were speechless after reading that . They all were done in by the likes of AKJ , DDT , SANT SAMAJ other all & sundry . They were really thanking me profously telling that this was real EYE-OPENER . Equally shocked they were how they were done in by those Sants whom they believed so much .
More from this JATTISM of last 15 years ie post 1993 .
1. Gurbani forbids us from consuming liquor , also SRM prohibts it . The JATTS of Punjab hold Guiness record for maximum per capita consumption of alcohal in the world .
2. Gurbani us to treat women equally 'So Kyon manda akhiye ...
SRM prohibts us not to have any relation with KUDI MAARS ( Girl killers ) .
The Jatts of Punjab hold this record for having LOWEST male-female ratio in whole of the world .
3. The SRM as well as Rehitnamas ask a Sikh to marry only Sikh . But the Jatt girls will marry only & only a clean shaven person , never a SABAT SOORAT SIKH at any cost . They will instead marry a Hindu or a Muslim .
4. Gurbani tells us to treat whole mankind as ONE ' Manas Ki Jaat Sabe Eko Pehchan Bo ' . But Jatts of Punjab will maintain separate Gurudwaras ( Not always though ) based on castes but also separate langars for the so-called Shudras ( low castes) , separate cremation grounds , but this is not like this in the cities of Punjab .
5. More Guiness record being approached by Punjabi Jatts are.... hold your breath maximum consumption of DRUGS , TOBBACO (yes tobbaco ) , looking at the rate these things r moving in the state .
The JATTS of Punjab will not maintain any of GURU'S REHAT & will flout each & every of the Hukams of Gurbani , but will insist on calling themselves as the forebearer of the flag of Sikhism .

 

[spnadmin]

Dalbirk ji

With all respect due you -- the thread is about hair and you are redirecting comments in a different direction. Probably you are right that some people need to be offended. However, it is not clear why on this thread or how vsgrewal ji by virtue of his name "grewal" can be justly associated with the breakdown of traditional values in Punjab. Last night I read this .....

"I suppose this is a very clever on part of some Sikhs ( Especially some Jatts ) who have controlled all the finances of Gurudwara & political power in Punjab but they r totally averse or even radically opposed to follow the first of all REHATS ie. HAIR . JATTS r the new BRAHMINS of Sikhism , the super Gurus . A new name had been invented by these BRAHMIN Sikhs which is JATTISM . Wearing their SURNAME on their sleeves eg. Sidhu, Dhillon , Gill, Virk , Brar & of course GREWAL among host lot of other"
----------------
and held my judgment. Please do not continue on like this. Now today I am asking you to stay on topic and hold off on personal inuendo. Thanks aad0002.

 

[dalbirk]

Dalbirk ji

With all respect due you -- the thread is about hair and you are redirecting comments in a different direction. Probably you are right that some people need to be offended. However, it is not clear why on this thread or how vsgrewal ji by virtue of his name "grewal" can be justly associated with the breakdown of traditional values in Punjab. Last night I read this .....

"I suppose this is a very clever on part of some Sikhs ( Especially some Jatts ) who have controlled all the finances of Gurudwara & political power in Punjab but they r totally averse or even radically opposed to follow the first of all REHATS ie. HAIR . JATTS r the new BRAHMINS of Sikhism , the super Gurus . A new name had been invented by these BRAHMIN Sikhs which is JATTISM . Wearing their SURNAME on their sleeves eg. Sidhu, Dhillon , Gill, Virk , Brar & of course GREWAL among host lot of other"
----------------
and held my judgment. Please do not continue on like this. Now today I am asking you to stay on topic and hold off on personal inuendo. Thanks aad0002.

Sorry aad jio ,
I know I made a mistake but I may assure you , right from the start this thread was not going to go anywhere . You can check how many times this topic has been discussed threadbare in last six months , but still instead of continuing to participate in old threads , some members find it attaractive to start new threads in disguised form . Hence this outburst on my part . As living in Punjab & dealing with people day in & day out , I'm quite certain now what lies at the bottom of the hearts of such members . Once again accept my apologies . I'll not repeat it again .
Regards,
Dalbir Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Naamjap Ji
Over here if we take meaning of kesav as wondros hair then it could be literal meaning. If we go in depth I find KESAV is one of name of God which our guru is using.
Best regards
Sahni Mohinder

Mohinder Sahni Ji,
Gurfateh.

YES we can go deeper....but the fact remains that KESAV does have an origin/root word..and its to do with HAIR..and its got to do with "hair" in a Beautiful sense..not matted/dirty/unkempt/ hair.
Simialrly the other "names" of GOD do have meanings....there are no "meaningless/just words types of names....example is Narayan..and its meaning has to do with the Oceans...

I thoroughly enjoy reading your mails...and am sometimes lost ( and thus go into silent mode )...so pardon me if i cannot answer some of the queries you post...simply means i have no answers !!..BUT I did read the mail..maybe five times or more !!

Thanks and keep in Chardeekalla always..

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Dear Members...
SPN is OUR Forum...we make it or break it.
All members are valuable/distinguished/honourable in their own special way - there are no unequals among us all..each has his/her own specialty.
Lets take all at "Face value" and not try to impute ulterior or other motives..shaak...etc
All such are extremely difficult to prove..and just create bad blood and fester wounds that can soon turn gangrenous.
I am aware that many many subjects have been discussed..some threadbare..some come up again and again...under various disguises... but WHY worry..there is no lack of space in the archives...and if you have the time..present your arguments again...and again....every time..somebody new joins in..and learns something....GURU NANAK JI didnt wrap up everything in his lifetime...He had another NINE GURUS...after him..each REPEATING essentially the SAME THING....and we have 1430 pages of SGGS..also repeating, repeating and repeating...I have been discussing the SAME subjects for the past 30 years....20 on the Internet..I am not yet "fed up"..my motto is... JIhhrra "fed up"... giya..oh samjho.. HAAR Giyah GETTING FED UP meaning you have LOST. Khalsa ji never loses !!
Another reason I just Love SPN is the Mods dont try and impose censorship/control the mails/alter mails/edit mails/ban unnecessarily/or make judgements..THAT happens in a lot of Yahoo Forums/Message Boards..and thats why I left them...never to return....Lets make SPN a better place where we all enjoy the interactions as equals...learning about Sikhi...and Life in General.
Thank you:welcome::ice::ice::ice::ice::ice::ice::ice::ice::icelenty to go around..ICE CREAM DA LANGGAR !

 

[japjisahib04]

Giani Ji

Yes you are right and I could be wrong. Then enquiry of namjap ji is remains unanswered as what Hair has got to with this sabd. While contemplating on this pankti, Bhagat namdev sabd, ‘kysvw bcaunI AeIey meIey eyk AwnjIau’ [ - 693.19, came into my mind who most of time address His beloved by kesav, that is why I thought it could be. Giani Ji, I am just a beginner may be sometime not able to express meaning in its real sense that it requires you to read five times. Thank you for the patience.

Best regards
Sahni Mohinder

 

[spnadmin]

Sorry aad jio ,
I know I made a mistake but I may assure you , right from the start this thread was not going to go anywhere . You can check how many times this topic has been discussed threadbare in last six months , but still instead of continuing to participate in old threads , some members find it attaractive to start new threads in disguised form . Hence this outburst on my part . As living in Punjab & dealing with people day in & day out , I'm quite certain now what lies at the bottom of the hearts of such members . Once again accept my apologies . I'll not repeat it again .
Regards,
Dalbir Singh

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

We are making this thread into a bad Khaljagan or as they say in New Orleans a tastelss Gumbo. Allow me to point out somethings so we can unweave this tangled, knotted hairy thread. Pun intended.

First of all, I want to thank Virinder ji for posting this essay. The reason for my thanks is that we are talking about something that is near and dear to us and is part of Sikhi.

Then started the angry arrow lancing about Hair which had nothing to do with the insightful essay based on SGGS by Virinder ji. Yes, we all have different ways to interpret Gurbani, that is the beauty of this gorgeous poetry in SGGS. Sikhs are famous for having opinions which would make any good teacher proud of his/her students.

Dalbirk mentioned Jatts and how they do not keep hair. One wonders why he did not mention any Bhapas or Ramgahrias who have the same appearance as the Jatts and also have or look for the same kind fo power in the Gurdwaras! I have no idea what caste Dalbirk or anyone else is. We all know Sikhi is not about caste yet when something negative is mentioned about some Sikh, caste arrow is the first to be thrown as a derrogatory shot. We should consider each other Sikhs irrespective of the last names we use it or not. Most of the times people use their last names not to flaunt their castes or tribes but just to distinguish from other people who have the same names.

Singh first mentioned in one of his posts:

Once again, Khalsa is not in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji so does this mean Khalsa has nothing to do with spirituality? And do not say this is a sentive issue because when you claim that hair is not apart of spirituality then also you are claiming that Khalsa is not apart of spirituality for the same reason.

Then in his other post, Singh said:

Its not all about hair, but hair keeping of the hair for a Sikh is a must. Once again im stressthe word Sikh. When will we get away from this petty agruement and accept the Tenth Nanak Hukam for what it is. If you want to be the Sikh of the Guru then you give your head not a broken finger nail.

It seems the above 2 posts are self conflicting a bit. Hair and turban, if I am not mistaken have been part and parcel of Sikhi since Guru Nanak. I have never seen a picture depicted of our first Guru with a cap or with short hair. The same goes for all our Gurus. So one can draw the inference that hair and turban have been part of Sikhi since its inception.

The other interesting part of the creation of Khalsa by our 10th Guru Guru Gobind Singh is that in 5 Kakaars, he bestowed on us, all can be removed,changed, swapped except hair, which again shows that in fact Guru Sahib added only 4 kakaars, Kesh- the first one already existed.

So I would like to know from Sadh Sangat, how many Sikhs do they know who keep their hair but have not taken Khandei de Pahul and act more as true Sikhs than the ones with all the kakaars?

I know lots of them and I also know lots of others wearing long kirpans and all the baana and plus some but act totally against the behaviourial tenets of Sikhi.

I am sure we all know both kinds of people.

Below is the comment I posted regarding I J Singh's excellent essay:Sikhi & Sikhism: A Distinction Without a Difference, which is worth posting here too.

sikhchic.com | The Art and Culture of the Diaspora | Article Detail



Sikhi has a very unique situation. We have the Guru Granth and then we have our history, especially the one that took place on Vaiskahi Day, 1699. Sometimes the two run parallel, sometimes they overlap, and at other times the latter supercedes the former. I took Khandei di pahul on Vaisakhi in 1988 and considered myself a blessed to be able to do so.

However, as we are all instructed to follow the Guru Granth, there is no mention of the adherence of the 5 kakaars or keeping our hair unshorn. The reason could be because Guru Granth is not about 'cans' and 'can-nots', but it instills 'wills' and 'will-nots'. I see Sikhi in this way. Mool Mantar is the blueprint and Japji is the foundation and the rest of the Gurbani is the design to map our own buildings. Now it depends on our inner quest what kind of building the individual wants to erect while having the two basic and vital components.

Our Kakaars are daily reminders of our duties as Sikhs and the goal is to etch their values on our character by breeding goodness which will in turn result in good deeds. To know Ik Ong Kaar, The Infinite, is to measure one's actions and deeds when no one is looking. These are the building blocks that Gurbani teaches us to build our character on.

Once the Kakaars become dogmas of cans and can-nots, decided by a few, then we embark on a slippery slope. Having said that, the most essential ingredient in this recipe of the survival of Sikhi as an institution should be that we all follow the discipline of the faith - such as keeping our hair unshorn - as a prerequiste and the stepping stone for the person to eventually take Khadei de Pahul.

But in order for that to happen, we need educated people holding and leading the Sikhi flag who can guide the rest of us to the next step, not some ego-filled, uneducated honchos at the Takhts, burdened with pot-bellies. They forget that when the Guru Granth says, "Tunn bhi teraa, munn bhi teraa", it means that mental health is tied to physical fitness. Once again, education is a must to walk this tight-rope of Sikhi, as we read in Anand Sahib daily that Sikhi is not a mere event of walking on a tight rope, but a way of life.

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Tejwant ji

Wondering about Sikhism as a way of life. That would make a good thread starting off with may 10 ideas that you would throw out for discussion. Ideas that take the notion of a "way of life" out from the land of habits and customs and into the land of values that guide our daily encounters with one another. Just a though...

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Tejwant ji

Wondering about Sikhism as a way of life. That would make a good thread starting off with may 10 ideas that you would throw out for discussion. Ideas that take the notion of a "way of life" out from the land of habits and customs and into the land of values that guide our daily encounters with one another. Just a though...

Antonia ji

A great idea!

In put from all Sadh Sangat is requested to fill in the blank, Sikhi is a religion, a belief system, a blind faith or a way of life for me because________________.

 

[vsgrewal48895]

Dear Teji Ji,

Thanks for clarifying the thread.

IMHO name will be replaced by a number as the world progresses and the problem of the caste will be solved for ever. I think the following Sabd of Guru Nanak is in order to mention here as the Sikhs are always worried about the other person rather than their own selves;

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਸਿਖ ਸਹੀ ॥ ਲੇਖਾ ਰਬੁ ਮੰਗੇਸੀਆ ਬੈਠਾ ਕਢਿ ਵਹੀ ॥ ਤਲਬਾ ਪਉਸਨਿ ਆਕੀਆ ਬਾਕੀ ਜਿਨਾ ਰਹੀ ॥ ਅਜਰਾਈਲੁ ਫਰੇਸਤਾ ਹੋਸੀ ਆਇ ਤਈ ॥ ਆਵਣੁ ਜਾਣੁ ਨ ਸੁਝਈ ਭੀੜੀ ਗਲੀ ਫਹੀ ॥ ਕੂੜ ਨਿਖੁਟੇ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਓੜਕਿ ਸਚਿ ਰਹੀ ॥
Nānak ākẖai re manā suṇī▫ai sikẖ sahī. Lekẖā rab mangesī▫ā baiṯẖā kadẖ vahī. Ŧalbā pa▫usan ākī▫ā bākī jinā rahī. Ajrā▫īl faresṯā hosī ā▫e ṯa▫ī. Āvaṇ jāṇ na sujẖ▫ī bẖīṛī galī fahī. Kūṛ nikẖute nānkā oṛak sacẖ rahī.

Says Nanak, listen, O mind, to the True Teachings. Opening Its ledger, God will call you to account. Those rebels who have unpaid accounts shall be called out. Azraa-eel, the Angel of Death, shall be appointed to punish them. They will find no way to escape coming and going in reincarnation; they are trapped in the narrow path. Falsehood will come to an end, O Nanak, and Truth will prevail in the end. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 953

Cordially,

Virinder

 

[Saint Soldier]

i suppose this is a very clever on part of some sikhs ( especially some jatts ) who have controlled all the finances of gurudwara & political power in punjab but they r totally averse or even radically opposed to follow the first of all rehats ie. Hair . Jatts r the new brahmins of sikhism , the super gurus .

oh you sound to be a "bhabha":wink:correctly spelled?
let me tell you i can arrange for a back up from the jatt world but i wont do that i'm not a casty "bhabha"

a new name had been invented by these brahmin sikhs which is jattism .

jats never had a religion of their own you are forgetting how they converted to buddhism and jainism in the 12th century of course they were the first one to do so now jatts rule sikhism yes they do and thats the purpose of their conversion you are a fool if you cant understand that

wearing their surname on their sleeves eg. Sidhu, dhillon , gill, virk , brar & of course grewal among host lot of other

they are free to do that why do you want to stop them there are many khatris who don't even add singh to their names why don't you mention them

i'm living in punjab & i'm yet to come across a single individual affluent so-called jatt who does not add surname to his name & who keeps hair.

may be you are living in pakistani punjab

almost 100% of jatts r clean shaven ie apostates according to the definition of sikh rehat maryada .

is there any use of keeping hairs if you are not a sikh by heart no there isn't go and look at khatris who don't cut their hairs but are practicing caste system like you openly.

but they want to control 100% of gurudwara golaks as well as punjab politics .

oh man the people serving the gurudawaras are amritdharis they are not jatts or khatris you don't understand that?

which is why they fell stung when somebody remindes them of sikh rehat maryada .

no they don't sikhism is their possession they can go accordingly

little knowing what their status was before the advent of sikhism . Mere farm labourers working for money lenders & nawabs as bonded labour or daily wagers .

now this hurts me alright jats controlled land from sindh to punjab i need to elaborate? And who was ranjit singh a khatri?
he got victory over all "bhabha" rulers before he was declared the king go read the history and what were you before sikhism came?

no wonder they r currently returning to their roots , looking at the condition of punjabi farmers these days selling off their lands to fund their need for intoxicants , lavish spending & lazy schedule

.
don't worry some of us own acres of land and are still richer than "bhabha's" who own little shops and marry their daughters to hindus

i'm sorry if i sound too offensive or castist because this is the last thing i wish to be blamed for

same from my side
.

and by the way leave punjab aside look at the sikhs abroad they are not only jatts but most of them cut their hairs.and i know a lot of jatts lining abroad who never trimmed their hairs.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Dear Teji Ji,

Thanks for clarifying the thread.

IMHO name will be replaced by a number as the world progresses and the problem of the caste will be solved for ever. I think the following Sabd of Guru Nanak is in order to mention here as the Sikhs are always worried about the other person rather than their own selves;

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਸਿਖ ਸਹੀ ॥ਲੇਖਾ ਰਬੁ ਮੰਗੇਸੀਆ ਬੈਠਾ ਕਢਿ ਵਹੀ ॥ਤਲਬਾ ਪਉਸਨਿ ਆਕੀਆ ਬਾਕੀ ਜਿਨਾ ਰਹੀ ॥ਅਜਰਾਈਲੁ ਫਰੇਸਤਾ ਹੋਸੀ ਆਇ ਤਈ ॥ਆਵਣੁ ਜਾਣੁ ਨ ਸੁਝਈ ਭੀੜੀ ਗਲੀ ਫਹੀ ॥ਕੂੜ ਨਿਖੁਟੇ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਓੜਕਿ ਸਚਿ ਰਹੀ ॥
Nānak ākẖai re manā suṇī▫ai sikẖ sahī. Lekẖā rab mangesī▫ā baiṯẖā kadẖ vahī. Ŧalbā pa▫usan ākī▫ā bākī jinā rahī. Ajrā▫īl faresṯā hosī ā▫e ṯa▫ī. Āvaṇ jāṇ na sujẖ▫ī bẖīṛī galī fahī. Kūṛ nikẖute nānkā oṛak sacẖ rahī.

Says Nanak, listen, O mind, to the True Teachings. Opening Its ledger, God will call you to account. Those rebels who have unpaid accounts shall be called out. Azraa-eel, the Angel of Death, shall be appointed to punish them. They will find no way to escape coming and going in reincarnation; they are trapped in the narrow path. Falsehood will come to an end, O Nanak, and Truth will prevail in the end. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 953

Cordially,

Virinder

Virinder ji,

In other words what Guru Nanak is saying that these people refuse to follow the Sikhi path and remain on the path they had previously chosen.

1. A Sikh opens his /her day book when he/she gets up and closes it by going through what he/she has accomplished during the day and what he/she has missed and where he/she has slipped and to make it right the next day.

Most of the religions believe that accountability is only after death, which makes one wonder that as we can take nothing with us when we die, how can we carry all the ledgers of our lives there?

This concept was created by a few, sitting crosslegged on their high chairs using fear tactics so that all the ones needing brokers to seek ONE GOD would fall under their spell, which even happens now a days.

Farid ji explains this in a beautiful way:

Farida, char gavaieah hund kei, char gavaieah sun,
Lekha rub mangesiah, tun kerei aahoh kum?

Hey man, you wasted 12 hours wandering around and the other 12 by sleeping,

When your time for accountability comes, how would you explain what you have been upto?

Here, Farid ji is talking about 8 paher meaning 24 hours.

A Sikh has a 'Day book' which he/she opens when they get up. The book is closed shut when we recite Soheila at night:-

Deu sajan assissirian, jei hovei sahib seu meil.

Oh Vaheguru, give me the blessing when I meet you, in other words when my last breath is gone.

So a Sikh is born ( conciously aware) when he wakes up and ready to die when he goes to bed.

In Sikh life accountability is must and it should happen with every breath we take, the same way a bookkeeper keeps track of every transaction in his day book.

In other words, Oh, Ik Ong Kaar give me the blessings if I die while sleeping otherwise I am ready to learn and correct what I did wrong when I get up.

2. So in Sikhi what we sow we reap in this life, sometimes daily.

3. Death is not a punishment in Sikhi. In fact Ik Ong Kaar who is Nirbhau and Nirvair is a true LOVER not a punisher.

4. Because of not followiing Gurmat ideals, these people will remain in their old thought process which will take them back to the belief of reincarnation because once who follows the Sikhi path ceases to be in the cycle of birth and death.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Randip Singh]

I know I'm offending many many people , some really good members like Randip Singh Ji to whom I shall be indebted for my whole life for his thread on MEAT EATING . I've forwarded this link to at least 20 of my friends , all of whom were speechless after reading that . They all were done in by the likes of AKJ , DDT , SANT SAMAJ other all & sundry . They were really thanking me profously telling that this was real EYE-OPENER . Equally shocked they were how they were done in by those Sants whom they believed so much .
More from this JATTISM of last 15 years ie post 1993 .
1. Gurbani forbids us from consuming liquor , also SRM prohibts it . The JATTS of Punjab hold Guiness record for maximum per capita consumption of alcohal in the world .
2. Gurbani us to treat women equally 'So Kyon manda akhiye ...
SRM prohibts us not to have any relation with KUDI MAARS ( Girl killers ) .
The Jatts of Punjab hold this record for having LOWEST male-female ratio in whole of the world .
3. The SRM as well as Rehitnamas ask a Sikh to marry only Sikh . But the Jatt girls will marry only & only a clean shaven person , never a SABAT SOORAT SIKH at any cost . They will instead marry a Hindu or a Muslim .
4. Gurbani tells us to treat whole mankind as ONE ' Manas Ki Jaat Sabe Eko Pehchan Bo ' . But Jatts of Punjab will maintain separate Gurudwaras ( Not always though ) based on castes but also separate langars for the so-called Shudras ( low castes) , separate cremation grounds , but this is not like this in the cities of Punjab .
5. More Guiness record being approached by Punjabi Jatts are.... hold your breath maximum consumption of DRUGS , TOBBACO (yes tobbaco ) , looking at the rate these things r moving in the state .
The JATTS of Punjab will not maintain any of GURU'S REHAT & will flout each & every of the Hukams of Gurbani , but will insist on calling themselves as the forebearer of the flag of Sikhism .

Hi Dal,

I have taken a lot of flack from Jatts online (jattworld, jatland etc) on this topic, so I know a lot about it. My own family is a non-Jatt farming family and I took a lot of flack for marrying a Jatt lady. This however, enabled me to understand the Jatt psyche even more and I have a hell of a lot of sympathy for Jatts.

I feel Jatts are being manipulated and have been done for a while by external forces and forces within their community. For may of them, it is their interest to keep Jatts dumped down, so they do not realise how Sikhi will release them. They are not the only ones.

Hair is just one aspect, yet when it suited the Jatt community they kept long hair pre-Sikhism to mimic the Kshatriya community to which they think they rightly belonged too. Now the reverse is happening with Radhaoswami's saying so long as you are vegetarian you can smoke and cut your hair???. I guess Punjabi's as a whole are gullible.

But let us take people who have a Pugh and Long hair? They have trimmed beards. The ones that don't know have no idea why they have it? Are yjey any worse than those cut haired people? I would say far worse.

As Gyani ji said, Sikhi is a game of love.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Singh first mentioned in one of his posts:

Quote:
Once again, Khalsa is not in Sri [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/guru-granth-sahib/"]Guru Granth Sahib[/URL] ji so does this mean Khalsa has nothing to do with spirituality? And do not say this is a sentive issue because when you claim that hair is not apart of spirituality then also you are claiming that Khalsa is not apart of spirituality for the same reason.
Then in his other post, Singh said:

Quote:
Its not all about hair, but hair keeping of the hair for a [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/sikh/"]Sikh[/URL] is a must. Once again im stressthe word [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/sikh/"]Sikh[/URL]. When will we get away from this petty agruement and accept the Tenth [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/guru-nanak-dev/"]Nanak[/URL] Hukam for what it is. If you want to be the [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/sikh/"]Sikh[/URL] of the Guru then you give your head not a broken finger nail.

It seems the above 2 posts are self conflicting a bit. Hair and turban, if I am not mistaken have been part and parcel of Sikhi since Guru Nanak. I have never seen a picture depicted of our first Guru with a cap or with short hair. The same goes for all our Gurus. So one can draw the inference that hair and turban have been part of Sikhi since its inception.

Sir, I have never stated that from Guru Nanak Dev ji to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji that they wore a cap or cut their hair, and did not wear a turban. You have not understood my post correctly. When I speak of Khalsa I am speaking of taking Amrit from the Panj Pyare. For this is not in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and by Mr. Grewals reasoning this would mean Amrit from Panj Pyare has no spirituality because it is not in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Guru Nanak Dev ji introducted the Khalsa and Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji completed the Khalsa. The Tenth Nanak made keeping of the hair uncut a Hukam, if you have an earlier Hukam by any of the other Gurus stating hair must be kept uncut by Sikhs then please please present it. I accept that Guru Nanak Dev ji kept hair uncut and wore a turban, it is some of the other members that needed to be reminded of this.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Sir, I have never stated that from Guru Nanak Dev ji to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji that they wore a cap or cut their hair, and did not wear a turban. You have not understood my post correctly. When I speak of Khalsa I am speaking of taking Amrit from the Panj Pyare. For this is not in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and by Mr. Grewals reasoning this would mean Amrit from Panj Pyare has no spirituality because it is not in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Guru Nanak Dev ji introducted the Khalsa and Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji completed the Khalsa. The Tenth Nanak made keeping of the hair uncut a Hukam, if you have an earlier Hukam by any of the other Gurus stating hair must be kept uncut by Sikhs then please please present it. I accept that Guru Nanak Dev ji kept hair uncut and wore a turban, it is some of the other members that needed to be reminded of this.

Singh ji

Guru Fateh.

First of all please do not address me by the title "Sir". My name is Tejwant and I am a Seeker like you. Secondly please read my whole post which I do not think you did, because I have also talked about the people who keep Kesh but have not taken Khandei de Pahul are also good Sikhs and some of them are better than the ones who have taken khandei de pahul and flaunt their Baana.

It is sad to notice that you have missed those important Sikhs and their good works. It is also worth reminding ourselves as often as possible what SGGS says which is our only Guru and our benchmark ' Sabh Gobind hein, Gobind bin nahin koi", no matter what we wear or if we live naked in the jungles of the Amazons.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Archived_Member4]

Singh ji

Guru Fateh.

First of all please do not address me by the title "Sir". My name is Tejwant and I am a Seeker like you. Secondly please read my whole post which I do not think you did, because I have also talked about the people who keep Kesh but have not taken Khandei de Pahul are also good Sikhs and some of them are better than the ones who have taken khandei de pahul and flaunt their Baana.

It is sad to notice that you have missed those important Sikhs and their good works. It is also worth reminding ourselves as often as possible what SGGS says which is our only Guru and our benchmark ' Sabh Gobind hein, Gobind bin nahin koi", no matter what we wear or if we live naked in the jungles of the Amazons.

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant singh ji, I call all my elders men sir, its to show respect of the wisdom one collects as they grow older. If you prefer not to be addressed as sir then I won't do it again.

I read through most of your post and didn't read the last couple of paragraphs. I did catch the part where you spoke about the ones that kept hair, but haven't taken amrit yet. I thought i wouldn't have to comment on this because I never said anything about them. For me it does not matter as Guru Sahib taught us, if you cut your hair, kept your hair intact, and if you have taken amrit. The important thing in all three of these types of people is that they still have to progress on the path of Sikhi; and some are closer than others to attain the state of Khalsa. A person that cuts hair and doesn't follow Sikhi, a person that kept hair and doesn't follow Sikhi, and a person that took amrit and just wears the 5 kakkars are all in one category because their life has become a ritual. These last three because of their ignorance have thought for some reason all they need to do is keep practicing equality and deny rest of Sikhi teaching, kept hair but denied rest of teaching, took amrit, but didn't bother to progress, take anyone of them and they are practicing a ritual.

Progress and keep learning is what we all are doing. In this progress all I ask for is, if you don't want to progress any further, than don't try to justify it because there is no need and this is between you and Guruji. ( this includes all of the sangat here, which includes me neither am I saying a person is doing this.) When I declared myself Sikh of the Guru then I took a oath and promised Guru ji i will not stop on this path till I reach the state of Khalsa, with your(Guru ji's) kirpa that is my lifes goal as you(Guru ji) taught me to give my head for the teachings. I follow my Guru ji and don't pay attention to public opinion.

It is sad to notice that you have missed those important Sikhs and their good works.

You have come to a conclusion about me without even knowing me. So here is a little bit about me. I had taken Amrit at a young age then broke away from it due to my ignorance, you are speaking to what everyone likes to call a patit, as Guru Sahib has kept is kirpa on me and i'm back on the path of Sikhi, I have seen both sides of the coin. (Must have done something good in my past life, to deserve his forgiveness.) My life was a ritual at a certain point with only worldly hopes of life; not a pleasant place to be in. I speak today on this site as a patit or Kesdhari whatever people want to call me is fine with me. I will never belittle a Kesdhari neither have I ever in the past. All I am concerned with is progressing and attaining Khalsa.

When I get time I'll read rest of your post and if I have anything to say I'll write on it.

Singh

 

[prabhsmart]

See dear writer of this post, hairs r inseparable part of ur body. God didn't gave us anything that is jsut a waste, every part has its own importance. u don't wish to keep hairs then u r welcome not to, but those who does don't discourage them. if God wanted us to cut ur hairs as the rest of humans r doing, he would have give us small hairs as is seen on our hands and legs. Womans don't have a facial hair as God wanted them to have a special identity, so man has one to give him a special identity.

When it was reintroduced by Guruji, it wasn't that we were not keeping hairs, it was that that wasn't giving us an identity. by making us to keep unshorn hair, with the rest kakars, he gave us an identity, an identity that makes a sardar different from a grp of thousands of others.

If u r weak don't make others like u r, don't be stupid to challenge the WILL OF GOD, he will show u his power if u go beyond ur limits.:inca: