Halal Jhataka Debate By Sarna And Calcutta

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

Gurbani Says "maas maas kar moorakh jhagrhay . . ." SGGS page 1289-15
It looks like 'moorakhs' are still residing on earth.


Balbir Singh

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

When we cut the link between brain and spine,there is no pain as in Jhataka and das has done it by his own hands.While in case of Halal,blood vessal of thread is slit and animal dies of animea,when all blood is fineshed.Say Animal stops geting oxzen and later may excreates excreata while dying due to suffocation.It takeas about 15 pain full mintues say in case of Lamb.In our case it does not take minutes or two to die and as brain is off the body due to beheading,Animal does not feel pain.

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear Vijaydeep Singh Jee!

Quote "In our case it does not take minutes or two to die and as brain is off the body due to beheading,Animal does not feel pain."

Are these experiences of yours memorized from many past lives? Those may not be from this life.


Balbir Singh

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Singh Sahib Bhai Balbeer Singh,

Life which is in das is same as in Animal and as in plant.

Waht das was in previous lif eand is going to be in life to come is just the same.all is composed of Akal.

so for for info of yourself.What same das did in form of Singhs many years before and what das will do as Singh after mnay years of destruction of this body same experaince did das writes about Jhataka.

till I remain,you do not and when you(God) is there thenn I no lomnger exists.so doer is Akal in all.

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear Vijaydeep Singh Ji!

Quote "What same das did in form of Singhs many years before and what das will do as Singh after mnay years of destruction of this body same experaince did das writes about Jhataka."

Have I understood it correctly? Singh was always a lion also many years back.
You wrote in this life you converted to a Singh.

Quote "Waht das was in previous lif eand is going to be in life to come is just the same.all is composed of Akal."
Please explain. Who feels pain in beings? I have heard preachers saying God is beyond pain and fear.


Balbir Singh

 

[dalsingh]

"dalsingh

i am not saying that eating meat is bad or not

i am questioning,

if an animal is killed

it feels pain, whether by jhatka or halal, it still dies..

so why make fuss over the method???

this is all pakhand..

if someone wants to eat meat...SGGS doesnot stop him..neither it says donot eat..

do whatever u want to..

but donot put it on SGGS that it PROMOTES Jhatka..."

I've always thought it was for two reasons, first the animal is killed less painfully than the jalal method.

Secondly to differentiate us from Muslims.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

There are mnay verse in Guru Granth Sahib Ji,which do oppse Halal(Bhai Randip Singh ji post have good referance to that and what our Vegitarian people try to prove to anti mear are more anti Halal).

Then about Singh Sahib Bhai Balbeer Singh Ji,


Brother,

soul which is in das and outside das also,is eternal and same was in Singhs das mentioned.when that soul wants we go beyong time space and matter.


Vachitar Natak has Guru saying the same thin g that all previous Avtars were his.As he was one with universe so one with past ,present and futrue.Das has understood this but so far is in path of realisng.when it is realsied then das may become Jvat Mukt or salvaged bing alive.

One is to know that suger is sweet and then one tastses is and relises that.Have mercy on das and under your refuge das may gain this state after which das could be trying for so mnay ages.

Then coming to feel pain in being.Akal is the one who feels all the emotions among us.But Akal is the cause of all.when Akal wants to feel pain.Akal becomes a cause of pain say butcher and Akal feels the pain as say cow.

Akal in self creation or in creation of self does utilise all things,Sarbang Bhukta.Akal may like to feel pain as Akal may like to feel happyness.Creation is mere tool of Akal to realise this intention.May be reson for creation by Akal could be Akal's wish to have feelings via creation.

So butcher is tool of Akal,to realise the wish of having pain vide body of the cow.

Akal Bless.

 

[Archived_member7]

Sat sriakaalji Saadh Sangat...

I am sorry to be missing ..had a busy month ....i am glad finally this topic has been taken ...this is important with respect to Dharam be it us Sikhs , or non-sikh hindus ....

Das has tried to get more info and has stood at slaughter houses watching halal..and seen the agony the animal goes through....

It is time for a Dharamyudh if we consider the importance...and dharamyudh doesnt just fighting with swords ..but Sangharsh...

The islamic world has been so insistant with their ways of eating , they imposed halal on us...now its like we don not have choice ...its like either have halal or be vegeterian ..

Das decided to stop eating mutton and chicken which are slaughtered through halal process and stick to sea food....since das resides in mumbai...and sea food cannot be halal...

Also going through ancient texts and concepts ..das realised that any dharam of indian origin doesnt accept halal in any case...

There have been races among hindus like rajputs, and people frm nepal , gharwal who offer animal sacrIfice as a ritual to their respective Deities ...

Even in the south ...das has inquired ....now 'THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WHEN OFFERING A 'BALI' OR ANIMAL SACRIFICE WAS THE ANIMAL WAS TO BE DECAPITATED OR BEHEADED WITH A 'JHATKA' or a swift .THE SWORD OR WEAPON OF SLAUGHTER HAD TO BE SHARP ENOUGH..DAS HAS SEEN PICTURES OF SACRIFICE BY NEPALI HINDUS ON DUSHERA ...THE BUFFALO IS BEHEADED WITH A KHUKRI WITH A QUICK 'JHATKA' . If in case the person offering the bali fails to chop at one go ..the bali isnt accepted.

There are religious texts which do not agree with a halal sacrifice ...and beyond all...they read the Kalma before sacrifice ... why do we need to accept it ???

das has a ardas to all of you...pls ..pls speak up its time we all ..be it other hindus who r non vegeterian or us ..we sikhs ..take this seriously and say no to HALAL MEAT...i know its going to be a hard time ..it was difficult for me ...but do not eat anything that has halal...and spread this word around.

Its time we show ..that we exist...we arent just animals to just accept everything so that our 'muslim' bretheren arent pained ( i hope vijaydeep veerji u r reading )

All of us need to unite...lets plan something strong...well i feel..lets gather all the religious heads of the indian religions and have an appeal issued ...NO HALAL...its not easy but not impossible since a large part is promoting vegeterianism....


Vijay veerji is doing a fantastic job but here are yor previous posts where i seek explanation....

These are vijaydeepji's previous posts which confuse me what he means ...

Re: I'm Muslim Pakistani
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gurfateh
Had das not with security agency of India,das would have had a wife,who had Muslim family.As das is aware that once Muslim lady marries outside Islam,she has to leave her faith.
Due to this Sanatan Sikhs tells Sikh to not to marry Muslim lady.But if we see Sikhism with sprituality then it is a from of Islam only.
anyway you are welcome to marry a Sikh and maintain Islam.Yuo can contact Baba Nidder Singh Ji of midland,if you need some help.Visit site To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily. and link of local Akharas of To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily..
Akal Sahai and Allah Hafiz.

AND

Re: Sikh pupils being served halal meat (Ilford Recorder)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gurfateh
Das has seen this non sense habit in many Muslims who try that we eat Halal.
Das can say that if they give us Halal by falcious mode our faith will still remain but will it be same for them if we give them Jhatka or pork?
They must know that if they want us to respect them thenn they ,must know how to respect others.(Das is not making this as genralyy ofr Muslims but for those who are doing evil).
Thing to to noted is that Ilford in essex is hot bed for Al Mahjouroon ,who along side Pakitani followers are laways up to ,malciously by method of flasehood, there to convert Sikhs,Hindus and Christians alike to thier type of Islam.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now here is the question in one u want to please that female who wants to marry a sikh by saying sikhi is frm islam...i feel ashamed...u have compared this great Panth to the cult of a paedophile.....:}--}:

if someone tells me the greatness of Muhamad i would say maybe he is great and My Dhan Guru Nanakdevji isnt that much great ..but i know for sure that My Pehle Paadhsaahi did not sleep with an 8 year old....and i m proud of it...

The wife of muhmad..was 8 years of age !!!! ayesha was 8 years when the paedophile was in his 30s and he married her and had a physical relationship with her at that age ...!!!! that SUCKS !!!!

The other quote u again say things abt muslims ..that they are pleased with making others eat halal....

Vijay veerji should i call it double standard ???? I havea lot of respect for u ...but pls throw this hinduness of having a huge heart which is so pseudo secular off !!!
I call it hinduness...since the hindus have done the same....they are eager to say Ishwar allah tero naam...Arre bhai..allah da banda tanu kadi dasda si ..ke haan tuhaada ishwar hor sadda allah vi ik hi hai..????:{-


BHUL CHUK MUAAF KARNI

GAJ-VAJ KE FATEH BULAAO
WAHEGURUJI KA KHALSA - WAHEGURUJI KI FATEH

 

[Archived_member7]

Sat sriakaalji Saadh Sangat...

I am sorry to be missing ..had a busy month ....i am glad finally this topic has been taken ...this is important with respect to Dharam be it us Sikhs , or non-sikh hindus ....

Das has tried to get more info and has stood at slaughter houses watching halal..and seen the agony the animal goes through....

It is time for a Dharamyudh if we consider the importance...and dharamyudh doesnt just fighting with swords ..but Sangharsh...

The islamic world has been so insistant with their ways of eating , they imposed halal on us...now its like we don not have choice ...its like either have halal or be vegeterian ..

Das decided to stop eating mutton and chicken which are slaughtered through halal process and stick to sea food....since das resides in mumbai...and sea food cannot be halal...

Also going through ancient texts and concepts ..das realised that any dharam of indian origin doesnt accept halal in any case...

There have been races among hindus like rajputs, and people frm nepal , gharwal who offer animal sacrIfice as a ritual to their respective Deities ...

Even in the south ...das has inquired ....now 'THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WHEN OFFERING A 'BALI' OR ANIMAL SACRIFICE WAS THE ANIMAL WAS TO BE DECAPITATED OR BEHEADED WITH A 'JHATKA' or a swift .THE SWORD OR WEAPON OF SLAUGHTER HAD TO BE SHARP ENOUGH..DAS HAS SEEN PICTURES OF SACRIFICE BY NEPALI HINDUS ON DUSHERA ...THE BUFFALO IS BEHEADED WITH A KHUKRI WITH A QUICK 'JHATKA' . If in case the person offering the bali fails to chop at one go ..the bali isnt accepted.

There are religious texts which do not agree with a halal sacrifice ...and beyond all...they read the Kalma before sacrifice ... why do we need to accept it ???

das has a ardas to all of you...pls ..pls speak up its time we all ..be it other hindus who r non vegeterian or us ..we sikhs ..take this seriously and say no to HALAL MEAT...i know its going to be a hard time ..it was difficult for me ...but do not eat anything that has halal...and spread this word around.

Its time we show ..that we exist...we arent just animals to just accept everything so that our 'muslim' bretheren arent pained ( i hope vijaydeep veerji u r reading )

All of us need to unite...lets plan something strong...well i feel..lets gather all the religious heads of the indian religions and have an appeal issued ...NO HALAL...its not easy but not impossible since a large part is promoting vegeterianism....


Vijay veerji is doing a fantastic job but here are yor previous posts where i seek explanation....

These are vijaydeepji's previous posts which confuse me what he means ...

Re: I'm Muslim Pakistani
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gurfateh
Had das not with security agency of India,das would have had a wife,who had Muslim family.As das is aware that once Muslim lady marries outside Islam,she has to leave her faith.
Due to this Sanatan Sikhs tells Sikh to not to marry Muslim lady.But if we see Sikhism with sprituality then it is a from of Islam only.
anyway you are welcome to marry a Sikh and maintain Islam.Yuo can contact Baba Nidder Singh Ji of midland,if you need some help.Visit site To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily. and link of local Akharas of To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily..
Akal Sahai and Allah Hafiz.

AND

Re: Sikh pupils being served halal meat (Ilford Recorder)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gurfateh
Das has seen this non sense habit in many Muslims who try that we eat Halal.
Das can say that if they give us Halal by falcious mode our faith will still remain but will it be same for them if we give them Jhatka or pork?
They must know that if they want us to respect them thenn they ,must know how to respect others.(Das is not making this as genralyy ofr Muslims but for those who are doing evil).
Thing to to noted is that Ilford in essex is hot bed for Al Mahjouroon ,who along side Pakitani followers are laways up to ,malciously by method of flasehood, there to convert Sikhs,Hindus and Christians alike to thier type of Islam.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now here is the question in one u want to please that female who wants to marry a sikh by saying sikhi is frm islam...i feel ashamed...u have compared this great Panth to the cult of a paedophile.....:}--}:

if someone tells me the greatness of Muhamad i would say maybe he is great and My Dhan Guru Nanakdevji isnt that much great ..but i know for sure that My Pehle Paadhsaahi did not sleep with an 8 year old....and i m proud of it...

The wife of muhmad..was 8 years of age !!!! ayesha was 8 years when the paedophile was in his 30s and he married her and had a physical relationship with her at that age ...!!!! that SUCKS !!!!

The other quote u again say things abt muslims ..that they are pleased with making others eat halal....

Vijay veerji should i call it double standard ???? I havea lot of respect for u ...but pls throw this hinduness of having a huge heart which is so pseudo secular off !!!
I call it hinduness...since the hindus have done the same....they are eager to say Ishwar allah tero naam...Arre bhai..allah da banda tanu kadi dasda si ..ke haan tuhaada ishwar hor sadda allah vi ik hi hai..????:{-


BHUL CHUK MUAAF KARNI

GAJ-VAJ KE FATEH BULAAO
WAHEGURUJI KA KHALSA - WAHEGURUJI KI FATEH

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Islam means surrender to the will of God,so only in Sikhism we do not treat Allah as our servent that Allah can be influnced by our deeds as Servent get influneced by the deeds of Master.Rather our deeds are influnced by will of Allah.

so to be more claerer,if a Muslim has to follow the true Islam,Amrit ceromny of Sikh baptism awaits them.das hopes the doubt is cleared.

 

[kds1980]

<<Vijay veerji is doing a fantastic job but here are yor previous posts where i seek explanation....

These are vijaydeepji's previous posts which confuse me what he means ...>>

i too don't understand that despite being from rss background why he vijaydeep singh has soft corner for islam,muhammed and quran

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Gurmat tells to be soft for people especialy you have or had haterd ever.Das wants to get out of sin.It may be duja Bhav otherwise.

 

[kds1980]

vijaydeep ji the worst thing of islam is whenever they are in majority they crush the minority this is well known fact.they always impose their laws on
other religiouns.my 87 year old grandmother told me about her pre partition days that in their village muslims were in majority .they respected sikhs
but sikhs have to abide by their laws like no cooking of jhatka meat ,the volume of kirtan should not be high etc.so all those who think that islam can become seculer are living in their imaginery world.

 

[dalsingh]

'The Seiks receive proselytes of almost every caste, a point in which they differ most materially from Hindoos. To initiate Mahommedans into their mysteries, they prepare a dish of hogs legs, which the converts are obliged to partake of, but they are as liberal in the use of opium and bhang as their neighbours. They are not prohibited the use of animal food of any kind, excepting beef, which they are rigidly scrupulous in abstaining from. They never shave their heads or beard;'

John Griffith - 1794

In Siques, Tigers or Thieves.

My point is that here are some early Sikhs not only eating meat but also using pork as a test for Muslim converts. From a later description they seem like Nihungs.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<Secondly to differentiate us from Muslims.>>

why??

doesn't our religion say manas ki jaat sab ekhe pechaanbo..

why any difference?

<< SGGS does not talk about cutting hair, but it is greatest sin in Sikhism>>

is there any particular reason why it was omitted from SGGS ?

if our Gurus REally wanted to warn us abt Sins/adharams they would have warned us about it...like they did about the 5

 

[dalsingh]

"Why differentiate with Muslims"

Having lived in a majority musalman area Sanghera, I have to say that the hippy type philosophy you are pushing is naive at the least. It just makes weak Singhs/Sikhs, who are easily swallowed by other cultures!

Yes we recognise all mankind as one but this doesn't mean we wonder around treating people who bare enmity towards us as non-existant.

Early in Sikh history, it was described as a teesra niara panth, a distinct third path. Look at the writings of Bhai Gurdas, a contemporary of Gurus Arjan and Hargobind Ji, it is full of comments regarding the distinction of the Sikh way over others.

Just because we are distinct it doesn't mean that we cannot show respect and accommodation to others.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

In Sikh Rahit by Tenth Master as we are told about five Kes we are told huqaa ,Hazmat and Halal is Haram.

coming to Manas Ki Jaat Sabhe Eke Pahichanbo,here ek refer to Akal and behold that race of all humans is Akal.So we agree that Halal eating Muslim can get salvation and and we respect his Halal eating.But Muslims trying to force us to eat Halal is bad.so many time Muslims frineds of Das tried him to eat Halal often by deceptions.Akal saved das.

One funny thing for KDS,about why das loves Muslims.Das had a Muslim girl friend.so in Urdu we have proverb.

Sari Kudaye Ek Taraf aur Joru Ka Bhai Ek Taraf but here we should say Sari khudaye Ek Taraf Aur Joru ke Bhaye Ek Taraf.

do not take ti seriusly.

 

[kds1980]

<<Sari Kudaye Ek Taraf aur Joru Ka Bhai Ek Taraf but here we should say Sari khudaye Ek Taraf Aur Joru ke Bhaye Ek Taraf.>>

par woh to aapki joru bhi anhin bani aur aapko chhod kar chali gayi aur aap ab bhi uske bhaiyon ki hifazat kar rahe hain

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<Having lived in a majority musalman area Sanghera, I have to say that the hippy type philosophy you are pushing is naive at the least. It just makes weak Singhs/Sikhs, who are easily swallowed by other cultures!>>>


now culture and religion are a seperate thing altogether ,dear friend...

<<Yes we recognise all mankind as one but this doesn't mean we wonder around treating people who bare enmity towards us as non-existant.>>

ofcourse...go ahead..knock out a few teeth if they knocked out yours....soon dentists would be out of business.. ..jus jokin'..

it again is more of a cultural issue

<<<Early in Sikh history, it was described as a teesra niara panth, a distinct third path. Look at the writings of Bhai Gurdas, a contemporary of Gurus Arjan and Hargobind Ji, it is full of comments regarding the distinction of the Sikh way over others.>>

teesara panth ?

yes it was a way.. a path... but ... once again i question the outward religion and inner religion...yes ..its a seperate stream of PRINCIPLES , which is inner matter...and not outer rituals...

 

[dalsingh]

--------------
<<Having lived in a majority musalman area Sanghera, I have to say that the hippy type philosophy you are pushing is naive at the least. It just makes weak Singhs/Sikhs, who are easily swallowed by other cultures!>>>


now culture and religion are a seperate thing altogether ,dear friend...

<<Yes we recognise all mankind as one but this doesn't mean we wonder around treating people who bare enmity towards us as non-existant.>>

ofcourse...go ahead..knock out a few teeth if they knocked out yours....soon dentists would be out of business.. ..jus jokin'..

it again is more of a cultural issue
------------------

Again naive talk, cultures, religion whatever. some of both are still out to shaft Sikhs. Go ahead live like a coward, like that was what Dasmesh Pita promoted!! See how quick that will make us slaves!


----------<<<Early in Sikh history, it was described as a teesra niara panth, a distinct third path. Look at the writings of Bhai Gurdas, a contemporary of Gurus Arjan and Hargobind Ji, it is full of comments regarding the distinction of the Sikh way over others.>>

teesara panth ?

yes it was a way.. a path... but ... once again i question the outward religion and inner religion...yes ..its a seperate stream of PRINCIPLES , which is inner matter...and not outer rituals...-------------

Again talk and live like a hippy, see what sort of trouble that will bring our way!

The outer does matter, hence the STRONG emphasis on external symbols or easy identification by our 10th Guru. No Judas's! Can't deny what you are and give back crap to those that bring it to you!