Halal Or Not Halal: What Is The Difference? By Amar Prakash Singh

[P0TTER]

The meat prepared on Eid and at haj to maccah "may" be constitute a sacrifice, but I don't think the day to day meat preperation is seen or treated as a sacrifice, could you kindly provide proof of your assumption.

Thanks.

Clearly Halal Meat is not the same as normal/ traditional meat in Non-islamic countries.
Halal is an Islamic word that is used by Muslims to signify what is permissible for them according to Sharia Law. We are not living under Sharia Law, because we are not muslims and therefore the word halal is a foreign word and we do not recognise the need to follow muslim rules for living... We do not recognise the need for Islamic dogma - especially concerning our food and the way it is prepared.
There are many differences between Halal Ritual Slaughter and any other slaughter.
The nearest to Halal Ritual Slaughter is Kosher Religious Slaughter... where there is no dedication of each animal... just a prayer said at the beginning of the day... as would be said by any Jew at his place of work.
Jews will not eat halal meat, because of the dedication to Allah and their need for strict adherence to Kosher traditions - yet muslims, in the absence of halal meat, will eat kosher meat rather than go vegetarian... Kosher is seen as the only acceptable substitute.
Many Halal Authorities insist that an Imam must be present at the kill. [Increasing costs]
The slaughterman MUST be a Muslim Male [issue of marginalisation of workers here]
The animal must be turned to face Mecca [indicating a Ritual] and presented as a living [must be alive] sacrifice.
A Blessing to Allah must be said out loud before the throat of a live animal is cut.
So that procedure for day to day Halal meat preparation certainly sounds very much like a Sacrificial Slaughter to me.

 

[pervez]

Clearly Halal Meat is not the same as normal/ traditional meat in Non-islamic countries.
Halal is an Islamic word that is used by Muslims to signify what is permissible for them according to Sharia Law. We are not living under Sharia Law, because we are not muslims and therefore the word halal is a foreign word and we do not recognise the need to follow muslim rules for living... We do not recognise the need for Islamic dogma - especially concerning our food and the way it is prepared.
There are many differences between Halal Ritual Slaughter and any other slaughter.
The nearest to Halal Ritual Slaughter is Kosher Religious Slaughter... where there is no dedication of each animal... just a prayer said at the beginning of the day... as would be said by any Jew at his place of work.
Jews will not eat halal meat, because of the dedication to Allah and their need for strict adherence to Kosher traditions - yet muslims, in the absence of halal meat, will eat kosher meat rather than go vegetarian... Kosher is seen as the only acceptable substitute.
Many Halal Authorities insist that an Imam must be present at the kill. [Increasing costs]
The slaughterman MUST be a Muslim Male [issue of marginalisation of workers here]
The animal must be turned to face Mecca [indicating a Ritual] and presented as a living [must be alive] sacrifice.
A Blessing to Allah must be said out loud before the throat of a live animal is cut.
So that procedure for day to day Halal meat preparation certainly sounds very much like a Sacrificial Slaughter to me.

You are free to belive what you want. The jewish once a day "blessing" is a recent phenemona. Many traditional jews still do it individualy. Thus muslims accept the meat from such jews. Also any muslim can slaughter animal as wittnessed in south asia and many muslim countries. In the west small places where halal meat is not available muslims go to farms and slaughter themselves. The "presented as a living animal" is in your imagination. While it is recommended the animal face the direction of mecca, if not done it does not make it non halal.
I think the issue has been disuussed at length. Perhaps you dont understand the term" inform" which was my intention. You want to argue. I have no intention to convince any one about any thing. I am merely presenting information. Those who tend to be open minded may use it as a valid input for their thinking and may or may not reach the same conclusion as me. Most probably will take a similar stand as you.
The issue seems to be not of the logic or facts but some thing deeper. However a reminder to you that your statements seem strange as surely you realise that you too are an migrant where you live and are also a small minority in all countries.
I think nothing productive will come out in me furthering the discussion on this topic.

 

[palaingtha]

Halal or Not Halal: What is the Difference?

By Amar Prakash Singh

I have always found the concept of Halal very mystifying. Recently there has been much comment about the subject, especially the controversy over comments made by Inder Singh Ghagga that stated that Guru Nanak may have eaten Halal. With this in mind, I wanted to really look at what Halal is and what the Gurus said about.

According to the Rehit, one of the transgressions of a Sikh is to not eat the meat of an animal slaughtered in the Muslim way.I believe that we have confused how an animal is killed and what Halal really is. It is a moot point that there is no humane way to kill an animal. If you believe that it is unacceptable to eat a chicken that has had its throat slit and bled to death but somehow find it acceptable to eat a chicken that has died by having an electrode shoved up its rectum and electrocuted, you are totally missing the point.

What really makes something Halal is not the method of killing but the fact that some ritual or prayer has somehow made the food sanctified or purified in order to make it acceptable and thus every thing else as unacceptable. There should not be any food that is acceptable or unacceptable to a Sikh because Sikhs have no such rituals.

With this said, I find that the group that is most upset about the comments about Guru Nanak eating Halal, the Akhand Kirtini Jatha, has a diet that is almost a text book example of the above definition of Halal.

Let's take a look at what the Gurus had to say about Halal.

"Let what is earned righteously be your blessed food." Guru Arjan page 1084

To Guru Arjan, the only thing that would make a food not blessed would be to earn it non righteously.

In fact, the aim of a Sikh is to become Halal and be purified by the knife in order to be “attached to the Lord.”

"First Mehl: The knife is Truth, and its steel is totally True. Its workmanship is incomparably beautiful. It is sharpened on the grindstone of the Shabad. It is placed in the scabbard of virtue. If the Shaykh is killed with that, then the blood of greed will spill out. One who is slaughtered in this ritualistic way, will be attached to the Lord. O Nanak, at the Lord's door, he is absorbed into His Blessed Vision. 2 "Guru Nanak page 956

The only thing that a Sikh should consider as Halal is a Liberated One.

"FIRST MEHL: The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom. What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?" Guru Nanak page 1289

What I believe the Guru is saying is that food is food and it is foolish to argue about what we should eat. How can there be a sin committed when all we are doing is eating to survive. Then how can a sin be committed if the meat is Halal or not. It is in the mind of the individual if it is Halal or not. I choose to see nothing as Halal and I believe Guru Nanak would have also. I believe that if the food that was served to Guru Nanak was Halal, the food that he ate was not. Eating has nothing to do with spiritual attainment and neither is the manner that it is killed.

Later he writes:

“Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night. They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom. O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said. They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts. They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat.” Guru Nanak page 1289

Here the Guru is saying that vegetarians who look down their noses at people who eat meat are also fools. I remember a conversation I had with a woman from 3HO. I mentioned that someone who we both knew ate meat. Her reply was: 'Then how can he be an Amritdhari Sikh?' This is exactly what Guruji condemns in the above.

When I took Amrit, not eating meat was a part of the vows. I realize now that whether you eat meat or not, should not be a requirement of a group but the choice of the individual.

Transition into Infinity

It is a misnomer to take the word "Halal", which as a verb means "rightfully earned": and as a Noun it means "the way of slaughtering an animal or bird for food". So we do not accept Halal" meat as rightful, only "Jhatka" is rightful for sikhs. Regarding the Panj Piaras advising among other things, that 'from the day you have taken Amrit sanskar, you will not eat Non-veg., is beyond sikhism, and it smells of Brahmanic philosophy. They should advise that "you will never eat non-veg done in a Muslim way which they call Halal."

 

[sikh Engineer]

You are free to belive what you want. The jewish once a day "blessing" is a recent phenemona. Many traditional jews still do it individualy. Thus muslims accept the meat from such jews. Also any muslim can slaughter animal as wittnessed in south asia and many muslim countries. In the west small places where halal meat is not available muslims go to farms and slaughter themselves. The "presented as a living animal" is in your imagination. While it is recommended the animal face the direction of mecca, if not done it does not make it non halal.
I think the issue has been disuussed at length. Perhaps you dont understand the term" inform" which was my intention. You want to argue. I have no intention to convince any one about any thing. I am merely presenting information. Those who tend to be open minded may use it as a valid input for their thinking and may or may not reach the same conclusion as me. Most probably will take a similar stand as you.
The issue seems to be not of the logic or facts but some thing deeper. However a reminder to you that your statements seem strange as surely you realise that you too are an migrant where you live and are also a small minority in all countries.
I think nothing productive will come out in me furthering the discussion on this topic.

I think we should first analyze what Halal means as per my knowledge Halal means rightfully,truthfully earned living or we can say it is permissible, we often say Haq aur Halal se kamaya huya hi kahana chayie . so it is clear that even in Sikhism Haq aur Halal has importance because our all Guru's stressed on rightful and truthful earning and living which is termed as Halal in Arabic. Sikh don't have any problem with the word Halal but problem for Sikh starts when slaughtering of animal is done in the name of Allah and it is named as Halal, in my opinion its not Halal its sacrificed meat.
Its clear that Guru Gobind Sahib ji never termed we should not eat Halal they clearly mention its Kautha meat which is prohibited for Sikh to eat even most of the Hindu brother do Jatka but it is also done to please GOD which is also prohibited in sikhism, So Sikhism reject the idea of slaughtering done in the name of GOD either adopting Halal or Jatka method.
So its my request not to get confused by the names(Halal or Jatka). we Sikhs have to keep in mind we cannot eat meat slaughtered in the name of GOD

 

[palaingtha]

I think we should first analyze what Halal means as per my knowledge Halal means rightfully,truthfully earned living or we can say it is permissible, we often say Haq aur Halal se kamaya huya hi kahana chayie . so it is clear that even in Sikhism Haq aur Halal has importance because our all Guru's stressed on rightful and truthful earning and living which is termed as Halal in Arabic. Sikh don't have any problem with the word Halal but problem for Sikh starts when slaughtering of animal is done in the name of Allah and it is named as Halal, in my opinion its not Halal its sacrificed meat.
Its clear that Guru Gobind Sahib ji never termed we should not eat Halal they clearly mention its Kautha meat which is prohibited for Sikh to eat even most of the Hindu brother do Jatka but it is also done to please GOD which is also prohibited in sikhism, So Sikhism reject the idea of slaughtering done in the name of GOD either adopting Halal or Jatka method.
So its my request not to get confused by the names(Halal or Jatka). we Sikhs have to keep in mind we cannot eat meat slaughtered in the name of GOD

The Halal meat is what the Muslims say, it is OK for them, but Sikhs are not bound by their religion to follow their dictates. Guru Sahib has specifically forbidden us not to share Roti,Beti with Muslims. Sunnat is Halal for them, but for Sikhs it amounts to rejection of God's gift. Would you say, since Sunnat is Halal and Sikhs should follow suit. Your views are anti-Sikh, probably it is some Muslim asking Sikhs to accept the Kutha Meat which they call Halal. It is preposterous to advise Sikhs to adopt Muslim ways. AS PER YOUR ADMISSION ABOVE THAT GURU GOBIND SINGH JI HAS PROHIBITED KUTHA MAAS; WHICH (KUTHA) MEANS = MEAT PREPARED IN MOHAMMEDAN WAY , what Muslims call "Halal" which is kutha for us. They call us "Kafar"; we retaliate with the word "Malech" for Muslims.

 

[palaingtha]

Further the word "Halal" means:- 1) as a verb -the rightful way of earning etc and 2) as a Noun -that it is Muslim way of slaughter which Muslims accept and why ask Sikhs to accept their version. They say "Mohammed is the last Prophet" just to stake a claim theirs is the only Religion and any religion coming into existence after Mohammed is NO RELIGION. Do you accept this?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

It is a misnomer to take the word "Halal", which as a verb means "rightfully earned": and as a Noun it means "the way of slaughtering an animal or bird for food". So we do not accept Halal" meat as rightful, only "Jhatka" is rightful for sikhs. Regarding the Panj Piaras advising among other things, that 'from the day you have taken Amrit sanskar, you will not eat Non-veg., is beyond sikhism, and it smells of Brahmanic philosophy. They should advise that "you will never eat non-veg done in a Muslim way which they call Halal."

And Kosher.

 

[sikh Engineer]

The Halal meat is what the Muslims say, it is OK for them, but Sikhs are not bound by their religion to follow their dictates. Guru Sahib has specifically forbidden us not to share Roti,Beti with Muslims. Sunnat is Halal for them, but for Sikhs it amounts to rejection of God's gift. Would you say, since Sunnat is Halal and Sikhs should follow suit. Your views are anti-Sikh, probably it is some Muslim asking Sikhs to accept the Kutha Meat which they call Halal. It is preposterous to advise Sikhs to adopt Muslim ways. AS PER YOUR ADMISSION ABOVE THAT GURU GOBIND SINGH JI HAS PROHIBITED KUTHA MAAS; WHICH (KUTHA) MEANS = MEAT PREPARED IN MOHAMMEDAN WAY , what Muslims call "Halal" which is kutha for us. They call us "Kafar"; we retaliate with the word "Malech" for Muslims.

Dear Palaingthaji
I guess you took it in wrong sense my view are not anti Sikh, all I wanted to convey is that we should not get confused by words ( Halal or Jatka). Sikh is prohibited to eat meat which is slaughter to please GOD or which is slaughter by reciting name of GOD just to satisfy himself that by reciting GOD name he is not doing anything wrong by slaughtering , that is why Guru Sahib ji specifically mention not to take Kautha meat because Kautha broadly mean meat prepared by ritual where some please GOD and others recite his name to satisfied themselves that they are not doing anything wrong by killing.

Lastly I can defend myself by saying this that Kautha meat can be Halal and same way it can be Jatka also, now this seems to be confusing let me clear it
HALAL means reciting Allah's name before slaughtering which is prohibited in Sikhism.
Jatka can be Kautha meat if anyone slaughter it for sacrificing means( like most of Hindus sacrifice goat etc in the name of Goddess which they call bali, but they slaughter it using Jatka methed)
So I guess now you got my point. I also suggest that the method of Halal is termed as ritual in which animal is sacrificed before GOD

 

[palaingtha]

Dear Palaingthaji
I guess you took it in wrong sense my view are not anti Sikh, all I wanted to convey is that we should not get confused by words ( Halal or Jatka). Sikh is prohibited to eat meat which is slaughter to please GOD or which is slaughter by reciting name of GOD just to satisfy himself that by reciting GOD name he is not doing anything wrong by slaughtering , that is why Guru Sahib ji specifically mention not to take Kautha meat because Kautha broadly mean meat prepared by ritual where some please GOD and others recite his name to satisfied themselves that they are not doing anything wrong by killing.

Lastly I can defend myself by saying this that Kautha meat can be Halal and same way it can be Jatka also, now this seems to be confusing let me clear it
HALAL means reciting Allah's name before slaughtering which is prohibited in Sikhism.
Jatka can be Kautha meat if anyone slaughter it for sacrificing means( like most of Hindus sacrifice goat etc in the name of Goddess which they call bali, but they slaughter it using Jatka methed)
So I guess now you got my point. I also suggest that the method of Halal is termed as ritual in which animal is sacrificed before GOD

I have firm belief there is no custom of "Sacrifice' of animal as a ritual or otherwise in Sikhism. We cut vegetables for cooking and in the same way we slaughter a goat or a chicken though there may be a difference in handling. If we remember God during all our activities or otherwise, it is no harm if one remembers God while cutting Veg or Non-veg, provided it is not a ritual to give meaning of a sacrifice of the animal. Above all there is no such ritual in Sikhs, we cut and cook to eat. Simple. the Nepali Hindus offer a Bhensa as sacrifice to their god as a ritual done for specific purpose and on specific days. We Sikhs do not believe in sacrifices and slaughter desired animal or bird for consumption. We feel no guilt in eating non-veg. Thanks.

 

[sikh Engineer]

yes I also know in Sikhism there is no such custom of "Sacrifice' of animal as a ritual. yes we even don't feel guilty when we slaughter animal for eating food

thanks

 

[palaingtha]

yes I also know in Sikhism there is no such custom of "Sacrifice' of animal as a ritual. yes we even don't feel guilty when we slaughter animal for eating food

thanks

We like Sikhs who do not have pretensions but are straight forward from their heart which is well connected with Sikh ethos! Great and Thanks!