How To Recognize A Fake Preacher/Pop Up Guru/Fake Baba Etc
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singh is king
SPNer
- May 13, 2007
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Surinder Kaur Cheema Ji
Thats what I wanted to say.
Thats what I wanted to say.
The One Who Has Achieved The Param Padvi Is Not Fake - Everything Else Is Fake.
A Fake Can't Recognize Another Fake, Only The One Who Has Achieved Param Padvi Knows The Truth.
Slandering Or Promoting Slandering Is Not Gurmat.
Anybody Can Quote Gurbani - But There Is One In Tens Of Millions Who Becomes What Gurbani Says - And Such A Soul Is Not Fake - Everything Else In This World Is Fake. Only The One Who Has Puran Jyot Parkash In His Hirda Is Not Fake, Everything Else Is Fake, Only The One Who Is One With Akal Purakh Is Not Fake, Everybody Else Is Fake.
A Fake Can't Recognize Another Fake, Only The One Who Has Achieved Param Padvi Knows The Truth.
Slandering Or Promoting Slandering Is Not Gurmat.
Anybody Can Quote Gurbani - But There Is One In Tens Of Millions Who Becomes What Gurbani Says - And Such A Soul Is Not Fake - Everything Else In This World Is Fake. Only The One Who Has Puran Jyot Parkash In His Hirda Is Not Fake, Everything Else Is Fake, Only The One Who Is One With Akal Purakh Is Not Fake, Everybody Else Is Fake.
Last edited:
SSMDCX Ji,
I am not sure with what purpose in mind you have posted your above comments, I read your comments under the other Fake Baba Thread too. You seem like discouraging others from talking about these fake Babas- Banarsi Thugs. It is like an anouncement you are making: 'you dont know the reality, they are not fake'.
DO YOU KNOW ALL OF THEM? DO YOU GURANTEE THEY ARE ALL PARMPADVI BIRAAJMAAN?
Guru Sahib Guru Gobing Singh Ji passed on Gurgaddi (PARAM PADVI) to Gurbani-Guru Granth Sahib. Is there any one equal to Guru Gobind Singh Ji out there or anyone who can match Gurbani? Gurbani has this Param Padvi, Sikh has Gurbani, what else he has to look for.
Quoting Gurbani helps even the worst. One doesn't become anything, Gurbani, Guru Satguru makes them whatever they are- Changaaeean Bureyaaneean Vaache Dharam Hadoor(please excuse me for my spellings).
Making others aware of the existance of 'Banarsi Thugs' is a Noble Task. Even if only one single soul is saved from falling into their trap by reading these threads, all this work done by sevaks of Guru Ji is rewarding. Only a Gurmukh can have courage to face such a social issue and openly talk about it.
SSMDCX Ji, I am sorry but I must say it is hard to remember your name- what does it mean- it may help me to remember it.
SSMDCX Ji, Gurbani Gavo bhai mere, Peeo Daade Da Khajaana Hai- Ral Mil Khavo Kharcho. Guru Mata, Guru Pita Hai.
Tuhada Das
Yograj
I am not sure with what purpose in mind you have posted your above comments, I read your comments under the other Fake Baba Thread too. You seem like discouraging others from talking about these fake Babas- Banarsi Thugs. It is like an anouncement you are making: 'you dont know the reality, they are not fake'.
DO YOU KNOW ALL OF THEM? DO YOU GURANTEE THEY ARE ALL PARMPADVI BIRAAJMAAN?Guru Sahib Guru Gobing Singh Ji passed on Gurgaddi (PARAM PADVI) to Gurbani-Guru Granth Sahib. Is there any one equal to Guru Gobind Singh Ji out there or anyone who can match Gurbani? Gurbani has this Param Padvi, Sikh has Gurbani, what else he has to look for.
Quoting Gurbani helps even the worst. One doesn't become anything, Gurbani, Guru Satguru makes them whatever they are- Changaaeean Bureyaaneean Vaache Dharam Hadoor(please excuse me for my spellings).
Making others aware of the existance of 'Banarsi Thugs' is a Noble Task. Even if only one single soul is saved from falling into their trap by reading these threads, all this work done by sevaks of Guru Ji is rewarding. Only a Gurmukh can have courage to face such a social issue and openly talk about it.
SSMDCX Ji, I am sorry but I must say it is hard to remember your name- what does it mean- it may help me to remember it.
SSMDCX Ji, Gurbani Gavo bhai mere, Peeo Daade Da Khajaana Hai- Ral Mil Khavo Kharcho. Guru Mata, Guru Pita Hai.
Tuhada Das
Yograj
Guru Pyare Jee:
All We Want To Say Is That Only The One Who Has Achieved That Level Of Puran Braham Gyan Can Know Hat Is Fake And What Is Not Fake And Nothing More Than That, For Those Of Us Making These Kinds Of Judgements Is Not A Wise Thing To Do, More Focus On Naam, Naam Simran, Naam Ki Kamai, Puran Bandgi And Seva - Parupkaar And Maha Parupkaar Will Help Us All, Criticism Or Slandering Never Helps And Will Never Help.
Dassan Dass - That Is Our Name
All We Want To Say Is That Only The One Who Has Achieved That Level Of Puran Braham Gyan Can Know Hat Is Fake And What Is Not Fake And Nothing More Than That, For Those Of Us Making These Kinds Of Judgements Is Not A Wise Thing To Do, More Focus On Naam, Naam Simran, Naam Ki Kamai, Puran Bandgi And Seva - Parupkaar And Maha Parupkaar Will Help Us All, Criticism Or Slandering Never Helps And Will Never Help.
Dassan Dass - That Is Our Name
- Apr 4, 2007
- 934
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just curious, but how many of you are there? or is it like the "royal" we that british kings use?
AmbarDhara
SPNer
- Jan 9, 2008
- 271
- 6
Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
SGGS JI
SATGURU PRASAAD
ਅਸੰਖ ਮੂਰਖ ਅੰਧ ਘੋਰ ॥
asankh moorakh andhh ghor ||
Countless fools, blinded by ignorance.
Gurbani eis jag meh chaanan
Gurbani alakh lakhiayaa
Gurbani Gavo Bhaee
charan kamal parabh kay nit Dhi-aava-o
Gurbani alakh lakhiayaa
Gurbani Gavo Bhaee
charan kamal parabh kay nit Dhi-aava-o
AmbarDhara
SPNer
- Jan 9, 2008
- 271
- 6
Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
ANG 232
Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
ANG 232
SGGS JI
SATGURU PRASAAD
ਅੰਧੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੇ ਭਰਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥
andhhae guroo thae bharam n jaaee ||
Those whose guru is spiritually blind - their doubts are not dispelled.
SGGS JI
ANG 491
Those whose guru is spiritually blind - their doubts are not dispelled.
SGGS JI
ANG 491
SATGURU PRASAAD
ਗੁਰੂ ਸਦਾਏ ਅਗਿਆਨੀ ਅੰਧਾ ਕਿਸੁ ਓਹੁ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਪਾਏ ॥੩॥
guroo sadhaaeae agiaanee andhhaa kis ouhu maarag paaeae ||3||
The ignorant, blind man calls himself the guru, but to whom can he show the way? ||3||
guroo sadhaaeae agiaanee andhhaa kis ouhu maarag paaeae ||3||
The ignorant, blind man calls himself the guru, but to whom can he show the way? ||3||
Gurbani eis jag meh chaanan
Gurbani alakh lakhiayaa
Gurbani Gavo Bhaee
charan kamal parabh kay nit Dhi-aava-o
Gurbani alakh lakhiayaa
Gurbani Gavo Bhaee
charan kamal parabh kay nit Dhi-aava-o
- Aug 28, 2010
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If we can recognise the "GUR" of Gurbaani , all fake preachers/propupGuru/Fake Babas
will vanish automatically.
Prakash.S.Bagga
will vanish automatically.
Prakash.S.Bagga
Sangat ji
I noticed there was a lot of off-topic chit chat at various intersections in this thread that may have caused the conversation to take a left turn. So I have reposted the very first comments in the thread just to get back into focus. Thank you.
Caspian
SPNer
- Mar 7, 2008
- 234
- 154
Is it not possible for someone to be compassionate and humble; yet, still be a fake guru? What is it that makes a guru a guru? If it's something along the lines of "illuminating the truth" (which is a quite frequent response on these forums, that a Guru is someone who shows you the truth) is it not possible to believe something to be true; yet still be wrong?
Dear Caspian Ji
Interesting questions as ever!
And hope your exams are going well
Some thoughts from me then:
Yes!
That's an acceptable quality, yes
Yes, again
But a distinction as well.....what one thinks is Truth and what actually is Truth aren't always the same
Interesting questions as ever!
And hope your exams are going well
Some thoughts from me then:
Yes!
That's an acceptable quality, yes
Yes, again
But a distinction as well.....what one thinks is Truth and what actually is Truth aren't always the same
Caspian
SPNer
- Mar 7, 2008
- 234
- 154
Agreed. Does it suffice then to "go with the flow" so to say and follow a Guru that you think is most closely related to "the truth." Or should skepticism, indecision, and criticism be the defacto response to all Guru's (whether they are fake or not).
I guess the problem is. How do you separate the really good (not so obvious) fakes from the real deals?
Those familiar with the philosophy of art can liken this problem to trying to tell the difference between an Original Van Gogh and a hypothetical Van Gogh that was painted, stroke for stroke (down to the molecular composition of the paint) similarly to the original. One could also suggest that there may not be a difference between the two, although I would say that is a controversial claim
.Not sure about "going with the flow" but you should go with one that you as an individual think is true. What anyone else thinks doesn't matter and don't try to say my guru is better than your guru because etc. I favour "an each to their own" approach but the problem is this rarely happens
No because if they are not fake, then surely you are the one who loses out?
The great Spiritual quest of life!
The point of this thread is: 'how to recognize a fake baba/godman/fake guru. The point of this thread is not whether one should follow same or not. Please stay on the topic and we may discover that once we get beyond playing mind-games and striving to be clever, that the "fake guru" "fake baba" etc etc etc is more than a label or construction. There is a vast and ugly context associated with them. It includes things like kidnapping, extortion, theft, rape, abuse of children, alienation of families, mind control, stock-piling weapons, larceny, and even murder.
So it makes sense to discuss how these unprincipled individuals use their "talents" to relieve people of their dignity, their money and their freedom. It does not make sense to shave a fine point or figure a way to determine who is shady, shadier, shadiest.
The previous post on Pascal's Wager was moved to Internfaith Forums/Ahteism. Please get back to the intent of the thread.
So it makes sense to discuss how these unprincipled individuals use their "talents" to relieve people of their dignity, their money and their freedom. It does not make sense to shave a fine point or figure a way to determine who is shady, shadier, shadiest.
The previous post on Pascal's Wager was moved to Internfaith Forums/Ahteism. Please get back to the intent of the thread.
Archived_member14
SPNer
Caspian ji,
Most thread headings do not arouse my interest and so I avoid opening and reading them. And this morning I came in with the intention to respond to one thread posted yesterday regarding ‘aversion towards Islam’ by way of making a statement about aversion in general. But that thread for some reason has been removed. My attention was then drawn to this one and I opened the last page with your comment at the top.
I was reminded about my own thoughts on a similar topic a few years ago. At the time I had come to the conclusion that people are attracted to teachings and teachers in accordance to their accumulated tendencies. Indeed it is not so much a matter of ‘learning’ something new, but rather hearing that which one has an inclination for and already accepted in the past (read past lives).
The problem however is this; all teachings about what is and what should be, comes with it a sense of being *right*. This is due to the fact that any wrong perceptions and ideas associated must be accompanied by attachment and with this is pleasant feeling. And the truth is that we are moved from moment to moment all our life, by attraction towards pleasant feelings and resistance to unpleasant feelings. On top of this is conceit, which is also usually accompanied by pleasant feelings, and this acts to resist any suggestion that perhaps “we” are wrong.
Furthermore is the problem of the “birds of a feather flock together” phenomenon. We find people who agree with us which further give the impression of our being on the right track. Besides, we are in the company of ‘friends’, and essentially this is based on the attachment to sense pleasures.
So we have wrong understandings, attachment and conceit all reinforcing each other and this makes it ever hard to question what we hear and are attracted by.
My conclusion at the time was that nothing can then be done. We’d always have all sorts of views going around with people being attracted to one or more of them. And we’d have teachers and fake gurus who teach them and towards whom there is so much attachment, that no one can prove to their followers, that they are wrong. This is the “all embracing net of views” which the whole world unwittingly gets caught in.
You asked:
Quote:
Is it not possible for someone to be compassionate and humble; yet, still be a fake guru?
C: I personally do not think so. Humility comes from understanding and compassion is aimed at the wellbeing of the other.
And I’ll add, that the goodness in terms of morality of another person is determined not simply by having ‘known’ him for a long time, not to speak of the position of a disciple on lower ground, looking up at the guru. It is known by living with him for a good period of time and observing his behavior in all circumstances. But of course, this is only possible if one has the ability to discern and has good morality oneself.
Quote:
What is it that makes a guru a guru? If it's something along the lines of "illuminating the truth" (which is a quite frequent response on these forums, that a Guru is someone who shows you the truth) is it not possible to believe something to be true; yet still be wrong?
C: Of course, and that is what gives power to the guru, namely our own ignorance and attachments.
The person who has some level of right understanding will be able to recognize false teachings. Sometimes however, the guru simply repeats what he has read in certain texts that do reflect the truth. In this case, getting into serious discussions with the guru is the one way which allows any superficiality to be exposed. But this is about the individual concerned and not a matter of exposing the guru.
And as with the case of morality, the individual here would have to have some degree of wisdom himself. His aim is the development of his own understanding and therefore he would rightly not concern himself with trying to expose anyone. After all, simply to expose a guru does not make other disciples, those who are essentially fools, any wiser. We can only help by talking about the truth ourselves and this is never a matter of ‘persons’. You would talk about what is right and what is wrong and your audience may in the process come to recognize the wrongness of teachings by others, and this would be exactly due to his own wisdom accumulated from the past (I know that you do not believe in past lives ;-)).
In conclusion, I believe that we should all try to develop our own understanding and not concern ourselves with matters of the ‘world’, particularly when it comes to other people’s inclination to follow this or that teaching and guru. Besides, an elephant stuck in the mud can’t pull to safety another elephant similarly stuck. But of course only with the arising of wisdom is there this realization, which like everything else, can’t be made to arise by will…………...
Most thread headings do not arouse my interest and so I avoid opening and reading them. And this morning I came in with the intention to respond to one thread posted yesterday regarding ‘aversion towards Islam’ by way of making a statement about aversion in general. But that thread for some reason has been removed. My attention was then drawn to this one and I opened the last page with your comment at the top.
I was reminded about my own thoughts on a similar topic a few years ago. At the time I had come to the conclusion that people are attracted to teachings and teachers in accordance to their accumulated tendencies. Indeed it is not so much a matter of ‘learning’ something new, but rather hearing that which one has an inclination for and already accepted in the past (read past lives).
The problem however is this; all teachings about what is and what should be, comes with it a sense of being *right*. This is due to the fact that any wrong perceptions and ideas associated must be accompanied by attachment and with this is pleasant feeling. And the truth is that we are moved from moment to moment all our life, by attraction towards pleasant feelings and resistance to unpleasant feelings. On top of this is conceit, which is also usually accompanied by pleasant feelings, and this acts to resist any suggestion that perhaps “we” are wrong.
Furthermore is the problem of the “birds of a feather flock together” phenomenon. We find people who agree with us which further give the impression of our being on the right track. Besides, we are in the company of ‘friends’, and essentially this is based on the attachment to sense pleasures.
So we have wrong understandings, attachment and conceit all reinforcing each other and this makes it ever hard to question what we hear and are attracted by.
My conclusion at the time was that nothing can then be done. We’d always have all sorts of views going around with people being attracted to one or more of them. And we’d have teachers and fake gurus who teach them and towards whom there is so much attachment, that no one can prove to their followers, that they are wrong. This is the “all embracing net of views” which the whole world unwittingly gets caught in.
You asked:
Quote:
Is it not possible for someone to be compassionate and humble; yet, still be a fake guru?
C: I personally do not think so. Humility comes from understanding and compassion is aimed at the wellbeing of the other.
And I’ll add, that the goodness in terms of morality of another person is determined not simply by having ‘known’ him for a long time, not to speak of the position of a disciple on lower ground, looking up at the guru. It is known by living with him for a good period of time and observing his behavior in all circumstances. But of course, this is only possible if one has the ability to discern and has good morality oneself.
Quote:
What is it that makes a guru a guru? If it's something along the lines of "illuminating the truth" (which is a quite frequent response on these forums, that a Guru is someone who shows you the truth) is it not possible to believe something to be true; yet still be wrong?
C: Of course, and that is what gives power to the guru, namely our own ignorance and attachments.
The person who has some level of right understanding will be able to recognize false teachings. Sometimes however, the guru simply repeats what he has read in certain texts that do reflect the truth. In this case, getting into serious discussions with the guru is the one way which allows any superficiality to be exposed. But this is about the individual concerned and not a matter of exposing the guru.
And as with the case of morality, the individual here would have to have some degree of wisdom himself. His aim is the development of his own understanding and therefore he would rightly not concern himself with trying to expose anyone. After all, simply to expose a guru does not make other disciples, those who are essentially fools, any wiser. We can only help by talking about the truth ourselves and this is never a matter of ‘persons’. You would talk about what is right and what is wrong and your audience may in the process come to recognize the wrongness of teachings by others, and this would be exactly due to his own wisdom accumulated from the past (I know that you do not believe in past lives ;-)).
In conclusion, I believe that we should all try to develop our own understanding and not concern ourselves with matters of the ‘world’, particularly when it comes to other people’s inclination to follow this or that teaching and guru. Besides, an elephant stuck in the mud can’t pull to safety another elephant similarly stuck. But of course only with the arising of wisdom is there this realization, which like everything else, can’t be made to arise by will…………...
- Aug 28, 2010
- 1,514
- 1,116
- 73
I think the problem is that we are trying to see GURU/BABA in human form whereas the word GURU in Gurbaani is not related for persons,
We should find out some criterion from within Gurbaani for such conclusion.There is a Qoute in Gurbaani pp444 we should seethat.A FAKE GURUor BABA in human form shall always avoid talking about GUR or GURMATi RAM NAAMu.This is a very strong point to verify.
TRUE GURU SGGS is all about GUR only.
Prakash.S.Bagga
We should find out some criterion from within Gurbaani for such conclusion.There is a Qoute in Gurbaani pp444 we should seethat.A FAKE GURUor BABA in human form shall always avoid talking about GUR or GURMATi RAM NAAMu.This is a very strong point to verify.
TRUE GURU SGGS is all about GUR only.
Prakash.S.Bagga
- Jul 14, 2007
- 4,576
- 1,609
Going with the flow can be associated with water which flows within the pipe. A Baba is revealed as fake when he breaks the divine and moral principles. Then he is like the broken pipe that doesn't allow the flow to continue in the same direction.
There are many fake babas because they never intended to become babas in the beginning but saw the power they held on the blind faith of women especially who repeatedly give them large doses of reverence. They become fake when they dress like a baba. Sometimes it is necessary for them to continue this disguise because the blind faith which it commands from the masses begin to create miracles. The credit is usually given to the baba for the miracles not realizing that the miracles are created by the believers' own devotion.
There are many fake babas because they never intended to become babas in the beginning but saw the power they held on the blind faith of women especially who repeatedly give them large doses of reverence. They become fake when they dress like a baba. Sometimes it is necessary for them to continue this disguise because the blind faith which it commands from the masses begin to create miracles. The credit is usually given to the baba for the miracles not realizing that the miracles are created by the believers' own devotion.
- Jul 14, 2007
- 4,576
- 1,609
To understand the power of this placebo effect, please view the video. We definitely can't say that there are fake doctors and psychologist out there to rob us of our money.
YouTube - SSS(12of14) - The Placebo Effect and Psychic Surgery
YouTube - SSS(12of14) - The Placebo Effect and Psychic Surgery
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