Anoop said:
lol...sorry about that max ji.
To tell you the truth, the recent message you have written, i really liekd it, and i agree with you...
We are fine the way we are. People say we should become sikhi etc, but they dont know what the meaning is. I am a sikh but i was so depressed ebcause i wanted to make a decision about whether i should have kesh or not. But i knew it would be hard for me...am i doing it for god? I dont think it was...i think it was just me trying to panic about whether i will be with god at the end or not. But i realised, everything is perfect the way it is, there was a reason that khalsa was brought, its to do with time. People create a bad impression about sikhism, because they think its a fun way to show others that its a fantasy quest and we are right etc...Its just making us like muslims in islam, they show off about their religion. In fact, i dont belive in religion, i belive in sikhism ofcourse because it was not a religion but gods message at that time. It depends on the person...god made us perfect, and the whole world is perfect, do you think some of us will have time to read every bit of the gurbani and see the divine light. It is up o you, if your capable and have time for it. It depends on what life you live, as lng as you act the way god wants you to act, and have faith in waheguru ji, its all love and devotion for god.
You've got it.
The universe is perfect.
That's what Master Nanak was saying from the outset. Those who chose to listen to him (and no, they are not 'Sikkhs' :}{}{}
found peace. Those who never understood his message and continue in their empty rituals (and yes, these
are 'Sikkhs' :}{}{}
are still at odds with themselves and with the universe. Like you say, you were depressed about not knowing "should I?"/"shouldn't I?" with regards to keeping your hair. You soon reailsed that this was nothing more than a triviality of the physical body. It meant next-to-nothing in terms of God.
----
"Pilgrimages, penances, compassion and alms-giving
Bring little merit, the size of a sesame seed.
But he who hears and believes and loves the Name
Shall bathe and be made clean
In a aplace of pilgrimage within him."
~Guru Nanak, 'Guru Granth Sahib', Japji, p.4 ~
----
As you rightly said, what the Gurus did was an
intelligent analysis of what was required
at the time.
The funny thing is that so many Sikkhs are stuck in a time warp that is
over three centuries old.
I'll leave you to derive your own humour from that :wink:
Surinder Kaur Cheema said:
Respected Max314,
Well my dear, we can tear apart one faith and fabricate another based on our own convenience. It is the very nature of a human being when we don’t like(in fact it is the mind’s play) something, we try to find something that suits us and can provide all the supporting arguments for that.
Hehe...a religion that apparently provides one with all the answers and seems to give one an easy, singular path through life? What's not to "like"? :}{}{}:
It's actually tougher to question yourself. That's the hardest thing to do. It's the last place most people want to go. It's the scariest place in the world.
But once you go there and make it through the fighting phase, you emerge stronger, nobler and more focussed than you ever thought you could be.
It can be a hard road...but think of it as a long-term investment.
The things I say about Sikkhi didn't start with me saying "I don't like this". As I said, the easiest thing in the world to do is just to keep your head down and follow the one in front. But I have always had a questioning nature (my parents will tell you stories about how I used to freak 'em out...when I was four) and simply seeing all of the apparent hypocrisies that were occuring within Sikkhism are what lead me to finally throw down the gauntlet to the faith and to deconstruct its mechanics and see what was
really behind it all.
What I write is not a 'reinvention' of any discription. No. It is an attempt to
deconstruct the reinvention
that has already taken place over many generations and to view Gurbani in the purest possible light, uncorrupted by what 'Uncle-ji' reckons it means.
Myself, as you understood by my name, born into a Sikh family, and then married into one. My father, not an AmritDhari, but a very Spiritual person, raised us(four sisters) no different than boys, we all are very well educated, carrier oriented, with God’s grace very well settled.
Congratulations
My elder three sisters( 8-15 years older than me) are not into Sikhi at all. Even my husband is a clean-shaven.
Since I was a little girl, I used to be fond of going to Mandir/Gurudwara/Church. Listening and reading anything related to God was my passion. Being brought up in Chandigarh, I had the opportunity to learn different languages and then started reading religious and phylosophy books, whatever I got hold of. Gathered all the knowledge (as I was looking for an answer to WHY all this, WHY all that) and what belief I developed was:
God is everywhere, anything and everything happens at His Will, All religious faiths(if studied deeply) boils down to one thing- Experiencing God; does not matter which way they do it. Only thing is that you have to go beyond the religion. Being religious and being God-realized are different. Religion can be the first step, but cannot be the only step. You have to have a mind set for accepting God’s Will, as it is. You have to accept others same as you are. You need to be forgiving, you need to be able to overlook others mistakes; you need to be able to speak the truth. When it is time to follow a Guru, you have to completely surrender (provided the Guru you have chosen is the Perfect). You need a guru who can lead you to that “I AM ALL” state, there started the search for a true Guru. And my ultimate decision became Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Bible and Gita.
My father always said- Religion is a mixture of sand and sugar, and you have to separate the sugar out and leave the sand alone. And this is the hardest thing to do. But if you can develop this ability, Salvation is not far away.
I read Gita, Bible, Vedas, Kuran, Tohra, SGGS, Books on Bahai Faith, and every other book on spirituality I could get hold on to. It is my own experience that tells me that SGGS, Gita, and Bible can be treated as the Guru(by itself) as these are the only ones which covers everything needed for a Sadhak. Other religions when you deeply study them- you need to actually follow a living Guru who can actually initiates you.
For myself Sikhi is not :Amrit Shakna only, Not associating with other people who are not Sikhs, Guru’s Picture is Baba Ji(those people who painted the pictures never saw Guru Sahib, how do they even know how they looked like), Fearing of asking WHY, Believing Bani is God’s Word BECAUSE SOMEBODY TOLD ME.
90% of the Sikhs think that they are better than others because they are Sikhs, and you know what I think; this is the point where the downfall starts. Egoism was the reason, this Sikhi( you can call it a religion, faith or a way of life) was started, and it is the most egoistic set of people at present. When I look at all these different kinds of Churches, it gives me a picture of different kinds of Gurudwaras. And Christianity is an old religion, whereas we are only 500some years old.
I will write you more later, I am very busy for a couple of weeks. I have not even corrected my punctuations etc. Please forgive me for any mistakes.
Guru Bhala Karey.
Forget punctuation, this is excellent stuff :}{}{}: I am in total accordance with much of this. Two things that stood out that you said:
My father always said- Religion is a mixture of sand and sugar, and you have to separate the sugar out and leave the sand alone. And this is the hardest thing to do. But if you can develop this ability, Salvation is not far away.
Your father is a wise man, indeed. This is effectively what I am doing. Separating 'sand' and 'sugar' as it were. You might want to call it 'reinventing religion to suit myself', but with your amalgamation of teachings from the Gita, Bible and Granth, it seems as though you and me are pretty much in the same boat: to get to the essence of truth that underlies all spiritual journeys.
As you so rightly say:
God is everywhere, anything and everything happens at His Will, All religious faiths(if studied deeply) boils down to one thing- Experiencing God; does not matter which way they do it. Only thing is that you have to go beyond the religion.
Going "beyond religion" is precisely right. Religions are human constructs, and not those of God. Heh...God has no use for religion ("na koi Hindu, na kio Musalman"). It is a way for us to quantify a particular set of beliefs. The thing is that you then go on to 'choosing a Guru'. Whereas you have chosen one (or a few, culminating in a whole, from which you take the elements that your own God-given judgement tells you is correct), I have decided that my 'guru' is the Mool Mantra. Even moreso than this, I have decided that "Ek Onkar" is my ultimate 'guru'. It just makes sense to me on every conceiveable level. It unites everything that seems to be conflicting into one unified whole...and I feel at peace with that.
Then, of course, there are the incredible poetries of the Granth that exemplify how one should live a moral life (with a nice side-serving of Guru Nanak's wit...yeesh, the guy must have been a blast to hang with :}{}{} and everything just...falls into place.
I too have some knowledge of the Hindu scriptures, and there are details in there that are also quite beautiful. In particular:
----
"In him are woven the sky and the earth and all the regions of the air, and in him rest the mind and all the powers of life. Know him as the ONE and leave aside all other words. He is the bridge of immortality.
Beyond the senses is the mind, and beyond the mind is reason, its essence. Beyond reason is the Spirit in man, and beyond this is the Spirit of the Universe, the evolver of all.
When the five senses and the mind are still, and reason itself rests in silence, then begins the Path supreme.
And when he is seen in his immanence and transcendence, then the ties that have bound the heart are unloosened, the doubts of the mind vanish, and the law of Karma works no more."
~ Extracts from the Upanishads ~
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I find it to be no coincidence that Guru Gobind Singh Ji translated so many of the Hindu texts during peace time.
Then, of course, there is the reminder from the Bible that all on this Earth are naught but temporary delusions:
----
"Of Kings and Counsellors of the Earth who bult for themselves palaces now lying in ruins."
~ Job 3:14 ~
----
Where did you think my alias came from? :wink:
