Controversial Inter-Religious Marriages In Gurdwaras

[pamma]

I feel with these narrow views we are becoming like fanatics. What is real Sikhism? Are we allowed to have alcohol? Aren't we supposed to give a 10th of are earnings in charity? Aren't we supposed to respect women? Where does all the Sikhi go to when we see people rolling drunk at parties in hotels after the Anand Karaj ceremony at a Gurdwara, the sevadars and Gurdwara workers dying of illness coz they don't have funds for medicines, female infanticide being the highest in Punjab?

It's high time we get over issues like inter marriages. I know of people who have had such marriages and they have respect for each other's religious beliefs. they observe both ways of prayers.

We must keep in mind that the Guru Granth Sahib teaches us to aim at spirituality which comes through naam. We have to teach that to our coming generations.

If we don't become broadminded with the present generation we cannot spread the wonderful message of our Gurus.

Wahe Guru ji ki Fateh!

 

[aarti]

i dont know exactly who are the people to rpl here...but i just registered here to say only one thing to them...u called yourself a sikh ..and saying that these weddings will be mockery of guru granth sahib...but with due respect i want to say that you people are not the one to say that....u dnt understand the first word written in guru sahib "ik onkar" which means "god is only one"
and sikhismm is not about making a large no. of population with last names singh or kaur its about living as legends,helping others ,be kind to every one ...these are the traits taught by our gurus to us...but you are forgetting that and dividing our people into religions...shame!!!

 

[Sherdil]

i dont know exactly who are the people to rpl here...but i just registered here to say only one thing to them...u called yourself a sikh ..and saying that these weddings will be mockery of guru granth sahib...but with due respect i want to say that you people are not the one to say that....u dnt understand the first word written in guru sahib "ik onkar" which means "god is only one"
and sikhismm is not about making a large no. of population with last names singh or kaur its about living as legends,helping others ,be kind to every one ...these are the traits taught by our gurus to us...but you are forgetting that and dividing our people into religions...shame!!!

I think a religion has a better chance of surviving in the next generation if both parents are of the same faith. It is not a matter of discrimination, but rather self-preservation. Even if both parents are non-religious, the fact that they have the same background ensures that their children are brought up within that environment. I know a few amritdharis who were raised in non-religious households. They were exposed to Sikhi only slightly, but that was enough to ignite that passion within them.

 

[aarti]

oh GOD you cant get it...its not about preserving anything about religion
its about preserving what have been taught to us
guru gobind singh ji died fighting for hindus because he created sikh panth so tha sikhs can help other people who cant help temselves....we should not tell our children which religion to follow...we should tell them what our gurus told us ,taught us,and let it be child's wish to follow or not...

 

[aarti]

and what you think about sacrifying a girls happiness just because she born in a sikh family...by doing this you are not preserving it instead you are making people think if they are binded in some sort of rules by being born in narrowminded society

 

[aristotle]

@Aarti Ji...
I agree with what you have to say, but I feel you took Sherdil Ji the wrong way. What you understood was not perhaps what he intended to say.

 

[Sherdil]

oh GOD you cant get it...its not about preserving anything about religion
its about preserving what have been taught to us

That is my point. How can we preserve what has been taught to us if our future generations do not identify themselves as Sikhs? In my personal life, I have known two such cases: One was a girl in my college. Her father is Sikh and her mother is Hindu. Some weeks she went to mandir, and other weeks she went to gurdwara. On the one hand, she was doing pooja of statues. On the other hand, she was being told that idol worship is wrong. She was neither here nor there. When pressed on her beliefs, she couldn't give you a straight answer. The second case is a close family friend. He married a Hindu woman from South India. His children have the same story.

A language dies when there isn't anyone to speak it. Similarly, a religion dies when there isn't anyone to practice it. In the interest of preserving our faith, I advocate that both husband and wife be Sikhs. I understand that people fall in love with members of other faiths, but that is a personal decision you must make. No compulsion. If you pursue the interfaith marriage, then there is a strong possibility your children will not identify themselves as Sikhs. If you are truly in love with Sikhi, then you will take this into consideration.

 

[ActsOfGod]

...guru gobind singh ji died fighting for hindus ...

Just would like to clarify, since you took the liberty of assuming some things about our 10th King.

1. He did not fight or die "for hindus". He fought for justice, his mission was to establish righteousness and uproot tyranny. That is what he fought for.

ਹਮ ਇਹ ਕਾਜ ਜਗਤ ਮੋ ਆਝ ॥ ਧਰਮ ਹੇਤ ਗ੝ਰਦੇਵਿ ਪਠਾਝ ॥
I have been sent into this world by the Preceptor-Lord to propagate Dharma (righteousness).
ਜਹਾਂ ਤਹਾਂ ਤ੝ਮ ਧਰਮ ਬਿਥਾਰੋ ॥ ਦ੝ਸਟ ਦੋਖੀਅਨਿ ਪਕਰਿ ਪਛਾਰੋ ॥੪੨॥
The Lord asked me to spread Dharma, and vanquish the tyrants and evil-minded persons. 42.
ਯਾਹੀ ਕਾਜ ਧਰਾ ਹਮ ਜਨਮੰ ॥ ਸਮਝ ਲੇਹ੝ ਸਾਧੂ ਸਭ ਮਨਮੰ ॥
I have taken birth of this purpose, the saints should comprehend this in their minds.
ਧਰਮ ਚਲਾਵਨ ਸੰਤ ਉਬਾਰਨ ॥ ਦ੝ਸਟ ਸਭਨ ਕੋ ਮੂਲ ਉਪਾਰਨ ॥੪੩॥
(I have been born) to spread Dharma, and protect saints, and root out tyrants and evil-minded persons.43.

Sixth Chapter of BACHITTAR NATAK

 

[ActsOfGod]

I feel with these narrow views we are becoming like fanatics. What is real Sikhism? Are we allowed to have alcohol? Aren't we supposed to give a 10th of are earnings in charity? Aren't we supposed to respect women? Where does all the Sikhi go to when we see people rolling drunk at parties in hotels after the Anand Karaj ceremony at a Gurdwara, the sevadars and Gurdwara workers dying of illness coz they don't have funds for medicines, female infanticide being the highest in Punjab?

It's high time we get over issues like inter marriages. I know of people who have had such marriages and they have respect for each other's religious beliefs. they observe both ways of prayers.

We must keep in mind that the Guru Granth Sahib teaches us to aim at spirituality which comes through naam. We have to teach that to our coming generations.

If we don't become broadminded with the present generation we cannot spread the wonderful message of our Gurus.

Wahe Guru ji ki Fateh!

You're talking about multiple issues that are impacting society (drug and alcohol abuse, domestic abuse, female infanticide, etc.)

You also mention people not upholding the Rehit.

These are all separate issues which deserve to be discussed in their own right.

These issues are different from the question of whether a non-sikh can get married in Guru Granth Sahib's presence.

I think there is a lot of confusion surrounding this topic. Hopefully this will help:

1) There is no objection to any two people getting married, regardless of their religious background. However, if they are not Sikhs, they should get married according to their own customs (e.g. a Christian wedding should be solemnized by an ordained Minister, etc.) Similarly, a Sikh wanting to get married must come before Guru Sahib for Anand Karaj.

2) The edict was by the Akal Takht, not the SGPC. There is a difference, and people would be wise to understand it.

3) In the case of a mixed marriage, e.g. one Sikh and one non-Sikh, the spouse that is not a Sikh must not be antithetical to Sikh belief. The SRM gives a very clear and very inclusive definition of who is a Sikh. How can someone who is directly opposed to Guru Sahib come to Guru Sahib for the wedding ceremony? For example, if a person believes that Jesus is the Truth, the Light and (ONLY) Way to Heaven, and that all other religious beliefs are false prophets (possibly Satan attempting to deceive the followers of Christ), how can that person possibly be genuine when they come to attend Anand Karaj? They can't be. At best they can reduce the ceremony to a mere ritual so that they can get it over and done with. But as we all know, that is not what Anand Karaj is. So let's not be so hasty to dismiss the guidelines from Akal Takht, calling them narrow-minded. We're not fully understanding the implications of such things.

AoG

 

[aarti]

but people dont fall in love first asking their religion ... i understand what you are saying...but its one's personal interest ...some authorities who have power to make some rule ..should not make rules based on discrimination...

and one more thing..i belong to a very small town..my parents are amritdhari...here we are rebuilding the gurudwara sahib and expenses are 4 crores ...now some responsible people from gurudwara sahib take money from people "grahi" ...the people who are not sikh ,they also give money ...and i noticed they are giving much more than sikhs...

when gurudwara itself made from donations from several religions then everyone should have equal right to do any ritual in gurudwara sahib...

 

[aarti]

it is written that groom and bride both should have singh or kaur as their surname in official documents to register their marriage under "anandkarj bill" but i dont use any sirname because i dont believe in discrimination..so i cant get married in gurudwara isnt it unfair

when it rains it doesnt rain like rain for hindu only sikh only when god himself take his children as equal then who are we...we are just little creatures created by him

 

[ActsOfGod]

but people dont fall in love first asking their religion ... i understand what you are saying...but its one's personal interest ...some authorities who have power to make some rule ..should not make rules based on discrimination...

This statement about Love is true, however this is not a rule based on discrimination. Please note that the Akal Takht did not say that a Sikh cannot marry a non-Sikh. A Sikh and non-Sikh are free to marry and register their marriage with the court. The stipulation by the Akal Takht is for Anand Karaj ceremony, which is when you come before Guru Sahib. If you want to go through the ceremony, you must be a Sikh, or at the very least believe in Sikhi (even if you may not be currently practicing it). There are only four official ceremonies in a Sikh's life: birth, death, baptism/initiation (i.e. amrit sanchar), and marriage. Now imagine someone coming to ask for amrit, but saying he is a Hindu or Christian and wants to keep his belief that Jesus is God and all others are false prophets. And yet this person is asking for Amrit, and if denied he will claim that God is all inclusive and it's discrimination. See how absurd it is?

and one more thing..i belong to a very small town..my parents are amritdhari...here we are rebuilding the gurudwara sahib and expenses are 4 crores ...now some responsible people from gurudwara sahib take money from people "grahi" ...the people who are not sikh ,they also give money ...and i noticed they are giving much more than sikhs...

when gurudwara itself made from donations from several religions then everyone should have equal right to do any ritual in gurudwara sahib...

Everyone from all walks of life and all faiths are welcome to come visit any Gurudwara. Harimandir Sahib has four doors to signify that all are welcome. Nobody is turned away, no matter what religion they follow. Everyone has equal right to enter and listen to Gurbani Shabad kirtan and the infinite wisdom in Guru's bani.

If someone wanted to come inside Gurudwara Sahib and smoke a cigarette, or drink alcohol, would you welcome that person? I doubt it. But still, he could claim that you are discriminating against him.

What if a Hindu wanted to enter the Gurudwara and perform aarti to Lord Krishna or a puja with havan? Would you allow that under the auspices of allowing them religious freedom to practice their ritual? And Sikhi is not about rituals in any case.

There has to be a standard to follow. We as Sikhs recognize that Guru's bani is the highest Truth that anyone can aspire to. As such, we welcome all to learn from that wisdom and experience Guru's greatness and connect with the Creator in a pure and truthful way. We are inclusive and open in that regard. What we are not about, is allowing people to propagate their own rituals that go against Gurmat, and in so doing subvert the Sikh practices.

The ruling by the Akal Takht should be considered seriously. It is not an optional thing that we can dismiss if it doesn't meet with our own personal opinions.

AoG

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

The ruling by the Akal Takht should be considered seriously. It is not an optional thing that we can dismiss if it doesn't meet with our own personal opinions.

AoG

I don't have a problem with most of it... I plan to marry a Sikh man, and I consider myself as Sikh... my only belief is in SGGSJ. However, I can not change my name officially in my documents very easily as I am in the military and to do so would literally take several years I think and cause a lot of headaches with pay system, official documents on me in the military like medical files, training files etc.

So does that mean I can never have anand karaj, even though I fully believe in Sikhi and follow it? I even plan to do Amrit at some point.

There are many people born into Sikhi who use their family surnames (Malhotra, Sidhu, etc.) are they also barred against anand karaj, since their driver's license etc show their family surname instead of Singh or Kaur? Or are they exempt simply by virtue of being born Punjabi??

 

[Sherdil]

I think it is just a deterrent. I assume the common sense of the gurdwara will prevail in this regard. Some may choose to ignore the hukamnamma altogether.

This is how a Sikh is defined in the Rehat Maryada:

CHAPTER 1
The Definition of Sikh :

Article I
Any human being who faithfully believes in
i. One Immortal Being,
ii. Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Sahib to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib,
iii. The Guru Granth Sahib,
iv. The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and
v. the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh

 

[Harry Haller]

Sikhism, unlike some other religions, encourages common sense rather than black and white thinking, as human beings we have ingrained in our hearts what is true and what is not, and given that Sikhism wished to distance itself as far as possible from rituals and petty rules, it is important that one cuts through the pointless and sees the truth.

If two people who consider themselves Sikhs wish to enter into Anand Karaj and form a union not only with each other but also with Creator and Creation, then some of the more silly reasons stated here as to why they should not remain just that, silly.

A person of another religion would by default have no wish to enter into this, so that is a moot point. The issue of names is what my dear veer Ambarsariaji would call sweating the small stuff, it is important not to get bogged down in the petty and focus on the 'big' stuff, that , in my opinion is what makes a Sikh, the big stuff, not ticking boxes.:interestedsingh:

 

[Brother Onam]

"when gurudwara itself made from donations from several religions then everyone should have equal right to do any ritual in gurudwara sahib.."

With all due respect, if somebody is making generous donations towards the construction of a temple, it means they value what that temple stands for.
If we were to throw open the doors to anyone who had supported the construction, the gurdwara would soon lose its value. To welcome ceremonies or celebrations from any contributor, no matter what tradition or lifestyles they observe, would swiftly undo the Sikh identity and sacredness of that space.

 

[angrisha]

This is s topic that has come up a fair bit in my family, by birth we are hindu. However the it took almost 2 decades before I ever saw an actual hindu wedding. Meaning that we are a mixed family, having both sikhs and hindus for 2-3 generations now.

I dont recall any gurdwara ever having a problem with it, personally Ive followed sikhi for the better of my life. We make this distiniction thinking that because of a certain name or being born into a certain family we have the right to call ourselves sikh/hindu whatever.... but what does it actually mean to be a sikh?

It is more than just simply being born into a sikh family. There are plenty of ppl who get married in accordance to their religious faith (whatever it may be) and probably couldn't really tell you anything about it.... so does that really make them apart of that religion?

I think sometimes we like to believe that such problems dont exist anymore, but rather they shouldnt exist but they do. Plenty of ppl still have problems with inter-religious marriages when neither one of the parties is actually religious... so you have to wonder how much of this actually impacts ppls lives...