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Is Hindu/Sikh A Valid Adherent?

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Dec 21, 2010
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Prakash.S.Bagga ji couple of comments.

There seems to be misconception that caste system has been rejected in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
The message of Gurbanne is common to all four caste System prevailing at that time.
Sorry Prakash.S.Bagg ji you are wrong above.

Caste system is directly rejected in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji by stating equality of all. Nothing more is needed to reject beyond this. Guru Gobind Singh ji simply manifested and embedded it explicitly in the foundation of Khalsa
The Brahmins always expected to be treated as no-1 by other caste people by virtue of the exclusive possessor of THE DIVINE knowledge.
But with passage of time and complete change in the pattern of living and thinking they could not maintain their reputation of being considered as exclusive caste. This results in these being considered as Minor now.
Prakash.S.Bagga ji wrong again.


Hinduism of 800+ million people is run by Brahmins and their surrogates as in Swami/Maharishi/Guru/Maharaj/etc. this or that. They are the string pullers behind major Hindu initiatives against minorities and other religions destruction, including attacks on Sikhism.


Simply the modus-operandii has changed more towards covert versus overt, to align with the times.


Sat Sri Akal.
 

sanj007

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Dec 13, 2010
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Dogra veer one comment on the following from your post,

Dogra ji good intentions aside, when the classes are identified as in excerpted above from your post, the Genie is out of the bottle. The culture and classes will create the rest of discrimination.

In this case the Brahmins being generally the holders of ancient wisdom and carrying it forward, created and supported a cultural-religious paradigm that was good for them and forever so. As long as Brahmin was on top it really mattered little to them. Hence a system with Brahmins on pedestal and at top. Rest is history and white washing and not practicality of situations.

Reagrds.

Completely disagree with you for following reasons:
1) We are each individual human beings, and not robots
2) Following on from 1) each individual human being qualify to their job in society,
3) Following on from 2) There are various functions within society ie cleaner, priest, defender, what name do you give these, nothing, dont make sense, each function has a name, that is what the quotes talk about the fundamental fact that there are different tyoes of function in society which u cannot deny
4) Moksha end game of Hindu faith, ie merging with God, can result if one leads a noble life ie accepting different people we come across every day of our lives to treat each individual regardless of wealth or function as equal on humane terms.
5) Who said anything about top, there is no top nor bottom, just functions e.g. in an office there is big boss director, there is middle level, clerical workers and cleaner, now cleaner has lowest pay, but does that make them bottom in terms of spirituality, absolutely not, as there is dignity of labour
6) To deny the existence of various function in society is plain delusional,
7) My 'caste' is human, my function is something else, Hindu faith teaches me to practice humanity, whether i do is for me, but scriptures are clear to me, and thats a fact
 

sanj007

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Dec 13, 2010
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Now let us see changes of function sto families born in :
http://agniveer.com/888/caste-system/
Many examples exist of change of Varnas in Vedic history.
a. Aitareya Rishi was son of a Daasa or criminal but became a Brahmin of highest order and wrote Aitareya Brahman and Aitareyopanishad. Aitareya Brahman is considered critical to understand Rigveda.
b. Ailush Rishi was son of a Daasi, gambler and of low character. However he researched on Rigveda and made several discoveries. Not only was he invited by Rishis but also made an Acharya. (Aitareya Brahman 2.19)
c. Satyakaam Jaabaal was son of a prostitute but became a Brahmin.
d. Prishadh was son of King Daksha but became a Shudra. Further he did Tapasya to achieve salvation after repenting.
(Vishnu Puran 4.1.14)
Had Tapasya been banned for Shudra as per the fake story from Uttar Ramayan, how could Prishadh do so?
e. Nabhag, soon of King Nedishtha became Vaishya. Many of his sons again became Kshatriya. (Vishnu Puran 4.1.13)
f. Dhrist was son of Nabhag (Vaishya) but became Brahmin and his son became Kshatriya (VP 4.2.2)
g. Further in his generation, some became Brahmin again (VP 9.2.23)
h. As per Bhagvat, Agniveshya became Brahmin though born to a king.
i. Rathotar born in Kshatriya family became a Brahmin as per Vishnu Puran and Bhagvat.
j. Haarit became Brahmin though born to Kshatriya (VP 4.3.5)
k. Shaunak became Brahmin though born in Kshatriya family. (VP 4.8.1). In fact, as per Vayu Puran, Vishnu Puran and Harivansh Puran, sons of Shaunak Rishi belonged to all four Varnas.
Similar examples exist of Gritsamad, Veethavya and Vritsamati.
l. Matanga was son of Chandal but became a Brahmin.
m. Raavan was born from Pulatsya Rishi but became a Rakshas.
n. Pravriddha was son of Raghu King but became a Rakshas.
o. Trishanku was a king but became a Chandal
p. Sons of Vishwamitra became Shudra. Vishwamitra himself was a Kshatriya who later became a Brahmin.
q. Vidur was son of a servant but became a Brahmin and minister of Hastinapur empire.
 

sanj007

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Dec 13, 2010
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Hinduism or real name Sanatan Dharma, teaches to practice humanity, and verses back up this fundamental fact. Scriptures are clear, just because corruption by a number of priests to maintain their children in better paid positions, does not mean they are following scriptures.
Let us see some more verses that convey the clear truth and reconciling to main messages of God residing in hearts of all beings(what does this mean )
Atharvaved 19.32.8:
O Lord! May I be loved by everyone – Brahmin, Kshatriya, Shudra or Vaishya. May I be admired by everyone.
Atharvaved 19.62.1:
May all noble people admire me. May kings and Kshatriyas admire me. May all look at me with admiration. May the Shudras and Vaishyas admire me.
It is clear from these mantras that a Vedic person:
- seeks to be forgiven for crimes against all including Shudras
- seeks to propagate Vedas to all including Shudras
- considers all Varnas – Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra to be equal and respects them equally.
Thus it is clear that as per Vedas, Shudras deserve the same respect as other Varnas and as per Vedic prayer, Shudras are accorded great esteem.
 

sanj007

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Dec 13, 2010
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Think a number of non hindus who think they know Hinduism ,clearly do not, mind u some Hindus by name, also do not know the truth in scriptures of Sanatan Dharma, it is a case of having to unlearn corruption and see the truth of the verses

In summary any person can be of any function, they gain through their training and/or study, regardless of birth. Equality of all beings enshrined within scriptures, and thats a fact!
 
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Think a number of non hindus who think they know Hinduism ,clearly do not, mind u some Hindus by name, also do not know the truth in scriptures of Sanatan Dharma, it is a case of having to unlearn corruption and see the truth of the verses

In summary any person can be of any function, they gain through their training and/or study, regardless of birth. Equality of all beings enshrined within scriptures, and thats a fact!

To extract what is right from Vedas has always been an uphill task for common persons.Moreover the language and interpretations did requre
the knowledge of Sanskrit language. Due to this barrier the common people were always kept away from knowing the right or wrong of Vedas.
And Brahmins maintained their supremacy over others for a long.

When the real Truth was presented with the advent of NANAK preachings it were these people only who opposed the most and still do not hesitate in manipulating with Sikh philosophy.They have already succeeded in the intrusion which is yet to be recognised by Sikhs.
Prakash.s.Bagga
 

sanj007

SPNer
Dec 13, 2010
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To extract what is right from Vedas has always been an uphill task for common persons.Moreover the language and interpretations did requre
the knowledge of Sanskrit language. Due to this barrier the common people were always kept away from knowing the right or wrong of Vedas.
And Brahmins maintained their supremacy over others for a long.

When the real Truth was presented with the advent of NANAK preachings it were these people only who opposed the most and still do not hesitate in manipulating with Sikh philosophy.They have already succeeded in the intrusion which is yet to be recognised by Sikhs.
Prakash.s.Bagga

There have been saints who have tried to direct the truth of the humanity in Vedas e.g. Ramunuja, Ramanand.
Yes a number of corrupt priests have tried to maintain their family wealth and have not maintained society for the better.
End of the day some of us in Hindu faith have had to unlearn and relearn truth of Vedas and other Holy Texts. With Internet, this is becoming more easier and many more people are moving in this direction of the uncorrupt truth, hence saying My caste= Human
 
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Dogra ji,


Dogra veer one comment on the following from your post,



Completely disagree with you for following reasons:
1) We are each individual human beings, and not robots
2) Following on from 1) each individual human being qualify to their job in society,
3) Following on from 2) There are various functions within society ie cleaner, priest, defender, what name do you give these, nothing, dont make sense, each function has a name, that is what the quotes talk about the fundamental fact that there are different tyoes of function in society which u cannot deny
4) Moksha end game of Hindu faith, ie merging with God, can result if one leads a noble life ie accepting different people we come across every day of our lives to treat each individual regardless of wealth or function as equal on humane terms.
5) Who said anything about top, there is no top nor bottom, just functions e.g. in an office there is big boss director, there is middle level, clerical workers and cleaner, now cleaner has lowest pay, but does that make them bottom in terms of spirituality, absolutely not, as there is dignity of labour
6) To deny the existence of various function in society is plain delusional,
7) My 'caste' is human, my function is something else, Hindu faith teaches me to practice humanity, whether i do is for me, but scriptures are clear to me, and thats a fact

You have made a point which I too more or less had in mind. Mine however would have been without any textual support. One thing that came to me which appears not to be pointed by you:

People in the old days did not have the luxury as we do today, of choosing between different livelihoods. A carpenter’s son had no option but to learn the trade from his father and become one when he grows up, same with a priest, a woodcutter, a farmer, a teacher and a trader. As you said, society had to remain functional and this process of inheriting the trade of the father was one way in which this happened. So really, there is nothing wrong with making the kind of differentiation for the sake of identifying who is who and does what.

That someone thinks what he does is superior to someone else is due to the individual's own conceit. And conceit arises regardless of whether one believes in the caste system or not. Conceit is present when there is comparison, so really it is not only when we think that we are higher / better or lower / worse, but also when we thinking that we are “equal”!! So I think people miss the point when they criticize the caste system but fail to see the ugliness of conceit in its different manifestations.

The problem however is that some people here do not believe in Karma and insist that it is an invention by those Hindus who seek to maintain the caste system. But the fact may simply be that some groups of Hindus have misused the concept of karma in order to support their conceit with regard to their caste. This should however not be used as excuse by anyone else to devalue / disprove karma. But this is what is being done here and I consider this very foolish. It is as if they first make the one appear more evil than it is and then use this to make the other look wrong. And although Karma as put forward by the Hindus is not exactly right, it however points to the fact of some very fundamental laws with regard to the nature of mind and moral cause and effect. To dismiss this is from my point of view, a great loss on the part of those who do.
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Dec 21, 2010
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Some food for thought.

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Depiction of Brahmin in Sri Guru Granth Sahib?

In Hinduism, there is the concept of Varna system where the society is stratified into four Varnas or castes - Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Sudras. The Brahmin occupies the highest level in the varna system and is considered to be the priest class in the Varna system of ancient India. In the Hindu Varna System, Brahmins are the priestly sections of the society. The rigid caste system in India had divided the society into four classes. Amongst these the Brahmins were at the top position. They are responsible for solemnising the religious rituals as they were considered the learned ones. Brahmins, the privileged class in the ancient Indian history, used to hold important positions in the royal court and used to receive handsome rewards for performing rituals and ceremonies.

This ancient Hindu caste system is divided on the basis of occupation. With the Vedic religion in ancient India the history of the Brahmin community actually begins. In chapter ten of the Rig Veda, Brahmins were created from the mouth of Purusha. The primary source of knowledge for all Brahmin tradition, both orthodox and heterodox lies in the Vedas. The name Brahman is derived from the root brih or vrih, meaning to increase. The origin of the Brahmins can be traced back to 6000 B.C. the earliest references are found in Vedas. Brahmins are known as Vedic People. Vedas depict them as a population originating in North India, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Sages like Vishwamitra, Agastya, Brihaspati, Daksha, Kashyapa, Manu, Parasara, Vashishta, Vyasa and Yamaand and several others are mentioned in the mythological texts and Vedas. They imparted education and led a life of simplicity. The life of an Indian Brahmin is divided into four stages - Brahmacharya, Grihastha, Vanaprastha and Sannyasa.

(http://www.indianetzone.com/21/brahmins_indian_caste.htm)

The following a sabad/Hymn from Sikhism SGGS,

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ
आसा महला १ ॥
Āsā mėhlā 1.
Aasaa, First Mehl:
ਰਾਗ ਆਸਾ ਪਹਿਲੀ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ।
xxx
XXX

ਕਾਇਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਮਨੁ ਹੈ ਧੋਤੀ
काइआ ब्रहमा मनु है धोती ॥
Kā▫i▫ā barahmā man hai ḏẖoṯī.
Let the body be the Brahmin, and let the mind be the loin-cloth;
ਮੈਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਤਨ ਨੂੰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਨ, ਦਿਲ ਨੂੰ ਧੋਤੀ, ਗਿਆਨ ਨੂੰ ਜਨੇਊ,
ਕਾਇਆ = ਸਰੀਰ, ਮਨੁੱਖਾ ਸਰੀਰ, ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਬਚਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਸਰੀਰ। ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ = ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ। ਮਨੁ = ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਮਨ।
(ਨਾਮ ਦੀ ਬਰਕਤਿ ਨਾਲ ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਬਚਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ) ਮਨੁੱਖਾ ਸਰੀਰ ਹੀ (ਉੱਚ-ਜਾਤੀਆ) ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਹੈ, (ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਹੋਇਆ) ਮਨ (ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਦੀ) ਧੋਤੀ ਹੈ।

ਗਿਆਨੁ ਜਨੇਊ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕੁਸਪਾਤੀ
गिआनु जनेऊ धिआनु कुसपाती ॥
Gi▫ān jane▫ū ḏẖi▫ān kuspāṯī.
let spiritual wisdom be the sacred thread, and meditation the ceremonial ring.
ਅਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਧਿਆਨ (ਸਿਮਰਨ) ਨੂੰ ਦੱਭ ਦੇ ਪੱਤੇ ਬਣਾਉਂਦਾ ਹਾਂ।
ਗਿਆਨੁ = ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਡੂੰਘੀ ਸਾਂਝ। ਧਿਆਨੁ = ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਯਾਦ ਵਿਚ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਜੋੜਨੀ। ਕੁਸ = ਦੱਭ। ਕੁਸ ਪਾਤੀ = ਦੱਭ ਦਾ ਛੱਲਾ (ਜੋ ਚੀਚੀ ਦੀ ਨਾਲ ਦੀ ਉਂਗਲੀ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਦਾ ਹੈ ਕੋਈ ਪੂਜਾ ਆਦਿਕ ਕਰਨ ਵੇਲੇ)।
ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਡੂੰਘੀ ਜਾਣ-ਪਛਾਣ ਜਨੇਊ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਚਰਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਜੁੜੀ ਹੋਈ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਦੱਭ ਦਾ ਛੱਲਾ।

ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾ ਜਸੁ ਜਾਚਉ ਨਾਉ
हरि नामा जसु जाचउ नाउ ॥
Har nāmā jas jācẖa▫o nā▫o.
I seek the Name of the Lord and His Praise as my cleansing bath.
ਤੀਰਥਾਂ ਉਤੇ ਇਸ਼ਨਾਨ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਮੈਂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਅਤੇ ਸਿਫ਼ਤ ਸ਼ਲਾਘਾ ਮੰਗਦਾ ਹਾਂ।
ਜਸੁ = ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ। ਜਾਚਉ = ਮੈਂ ਮੰਗਦਾ ਹਾਂ।
ਮੈਂ ਤਾਂ (ਹੇ ਪਾਂਡੇ!) ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ (ਦੱਛਣਾ) ਮੰਗਦਾ ਹਾਂ, ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਹੀ ਮੰਗਦਾ ਹਾਂ,

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਿ ਸਮਾਉ ੧॥
गुर परसादी ब्रहमि समाउ ॥१॥
Gur parsādī barahm samā▫o. ||1||
By Guru's Grace, I am absorbed into God. ||1||
ਗੁਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਰਹਿਮਤ ਸਦਕਾ, ਮੈਂ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਅੰਦਰ ਲੀਨ ਹੋ ਜਾਵਾਂਗਾ।
ਪਰਸਾਦੀ = ਪਰਸਾਦਿ, ਕਿਰਪਾ ਨਾਲ। ਬ੍ਰਹਮਿ = ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਵਿਚ। ਸਮਾਉ = ਮੈਂ ਲੀਨ ਰਹਾਂ ॥੧॥
ਤਾਕਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਨਾਲ (ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰ ਕੇ) ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਵਿਚ ਲੀਨ ਰਹਾਂ ॥੧॥

ਪਾਂਡੇ ਐਸਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ
पांडे ऐसा ब्रहम बीचारु ॥
Pāʼnde aisā barahm bīcẖār.
O Pandit, O religious scholar, contemplate God in such a way
ਹੇ ਪੰਡਿਤ! ਐਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਕਰ,
ਪਾਂਡੇ = ਹੇ ਪੰਡਿਤ!
ਹੇ ਪਾਂਡੇ! ਤੂੰ ਭੀ ਇਸੇ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਗੁਣਾਂ ਦਾ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਰ।

ਨਾਮੇ ਸੁਚਿ ਨਾਮੋ ਪੜਉ ਨਾਮੇ ਚਜੁ ਆਚਾਰੁ ੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
नामे सुचि नामो पड़उ नामे चजु आचारु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Nāme sucẖ nāmo paṛa▫o nāme cẖaj ācẖār. ||1|| rahā▫o.
that His Name may sanctify you, that His Name may be your study, and His Name your wisdom and way of life. ||1||Pause||
ਕਿ ਉਸ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਵਿੱਤ੍ਰਤਾ, ਉਸ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੀ ਪੜ੍ਹਾਈ, ਉਸ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਿਆਣਪ ਅਤੇ ਜੀਵਨ-ਰਹੁ-ਰੀਤੀ ਹੋਵੇ। ਠਹਿਰਾਉ।
ਨਾਮੇ = ਨਾਮ ਵਿਚ ਹੀ। ਨਾਮੋ ਪੜਉ = ਮੈਂ ਨਾਮ (-ਰੂਪ ਵੇਦ ਆਦਿਕ) ਪੜ੍ਹਦਾ ਹਾਂ। ਚਜੁ = ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਰਸਮਾਂ ਕਰਨੀਆਂ। ਆਚਾਰੁ = ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਰਸਮਾਂ ਕਰਨੀਆਂ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਵਿਚ ਹੀ ਸੁੱਚ ਹੈ, ਮੈਂ ਤਾਂ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ-ਸਿਮਰਨ (-ਰੂਪ ਵੇਦ) ਪੜ੍ਹਦਾ ਹਾਂ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਵਿਚ ਹੀ ਸਾਰੀਆਂ ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਰਸਮਾਂ ਆ ਜਾਂਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਬਾਹਰਿ ਜਨੇਊ ਜਿਚਰੁ ਜੋਤਿ ਹੈ ਨਾਲਿ
बाहरि जनेऊ जिचरु जोति है नालि ॥
Bāhar jane▫ū jicẖar joṯ hai nāl.
The outer sacred thread is worthwhile only as long as the Divine Light is within.
ਬਾਹਰਲਾ ਜੰਞੂ ਤਦ ਤਾਂਈ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜਦ ਤੋੜੀਂ ਈਸ਼ਵਰੀ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਤੇਰੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਹੈ।
ਬਾਹਰਿ = ਸਰੀਰ ਉਤੇ ਪਾਇਆ ਹੋਇਆ।
(ਹੇ ਪਾਂਡੇ!) ਬਾਹਰਲਾ ਜਨੇਊ ਉਤਨਾ ਚਿਰ ਹੀ ਹੈ, ਜਿਤਨਾ ਚਿਰ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੀਰ ਵਿਚ ਮੌਜੂਦ ਹੈ (ਫਿਰ ਇਹ ਕਿਸ ਕੰਮ?)

ਧੋਤੀ ਟਿਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ
धोती टिका नामु समालि ॥
Ḏẖoṯī tikā nām samāl.
So make the remembrance of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, your loin-cloth and the ceremonial mark on your forehead.
ਨਾਮ ਦੇ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਤੇੜ ਦੀ ਚਾਦਰ ਅਤੇ ਤਿਲਕ ਬਣਾ।
xxx
ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਸਾਂਭ-ਇਹੀ ਹੈ ਧੋਤੀ ਇਹੀ ਹੈ ਟਿੱਕਾ।

ਐਥੈ ਓਥੈ ਨਿਬਹੀ ਨਾਲਿ
ऐथै ओथै निबही नालि ॥
Aithai othai nibhī nāl.
Here and hereafter, the Name alone shall stand by you.
ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਏਥੇ ਅਤੇ ਓਥੇ ਤੇਰਾ ਪੱਖ ਪੂਰੇਗਾ।
ਐਥੇ = ਇਸ ਲੋਕ ਵਿਚ। ਓਥੈ = ਪਰਲੋਕ ਵਿਚ।
ਇਹ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਲੋਕ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਵਿਚ ਸਾਥ ਨਿਭਾਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ।

ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਹੋਰਿ ਕਰਮ ਭਾਲਿ ੨॥
विणु नावै होरि करम न भालि ॥२॥
viṇ nāvai hor karam na bẖāl. ||2||
Do not seek any other actions, except the Name. ||2||
ਨਾਮ ਦੇ ਬਗੈਰ, ਹੋਰਸ ਅਮਲਾਂ ਦੀ ਖੋਜ ਭਾਲ ਨਾਂ ਕਰ।
ਹੋਰਿ = {ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ 'ਹੋਰ' ਤੋਂ ਬਹੁ-ਵਚਨ}। ਭਾਲਿ = ਲੱਭ ॥੨॥
(ਹੇ ਪਾਂਡੇ!) ਨਾਮ ਵਿਸਾਰ ਕੇ ਹੋਰ ਹੋਰ ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਰਸਮਾਂ ਨਾਹ ਭਾਲਦਾ ਫਿਰ ॥੨॥

ਪੂਜਾ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਮਾਇਆ ਪਰਜਾਲਿ
पूजा प्रेम माइआ परजालि ॥
Pūjā parem mā▫i▫ā parjāl.
Worship the Lord in loving adoration, and burn your desire for Maya.
ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਪਿਆਰ ਨਾਲ ਉਪਾਸ਼ਨਾ ਕਰ ਤੇ ਧਨ ਦੌਲਤ ਦੀ ਖ਼ਾਹਿਸ਼ ਨੂੰ ਸਾੜ ਸੁੱਟ।
ਪੂਜਾ = ਮੂਰਤੀ ਅਗੇ ਧੂਪ ਧੁਖਾਣਾ। ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਮਾਇਆ = ਮਾਇਆ ਦਾ ਮੋਹ। ਪਰਜਾਲਿ = ਚੰਗੀ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਸਾੜ ਦੇ।
(ਨਾਮ ਵਿਚ ਜੁੜ ਕੇ) ਮਾਇਆ ਦਾ ਮੋਹ (ਆਪਣੇ ਅੰਦਰੋਂ) ਚੰਗੀ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਸਾੜ ਦੇ-ਇਹੀ ਹੈ ਦੇਵ-ਪੂਜਾ।

ਏਕੋ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਭਾਲਿ
एको वेखहु अवरु न भालि ॥
Ėko vekẖhu avar na bẖāl.
Behold only the One Lord, and do not seek out any other.
ਕੇਵਲ ਇੱਕ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਨੂੰ ਦੇਖ, ਤੇ ਹੋਰ ਕਿਸੇ ਦੀ ਤਲਾਸ਼ ਨਾਂ ਕਰ।
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ਹਰ ਥਾਂ ਇਕ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੂੰ ਵੇਖ, (ਹੇ ਪਾਂਡੇ!) ਉਸ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਕਿਸੇ ਹੋਰ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਨੂੰ ਨਾਹ ਲੱਭਦਾ ਰਹੁ।

ਚੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਤਤੁ ਗਗਨ ਦਸ ਦੁਆਰ
चीन्है ततु गगन दस दुआर ॥
Cẖīnĥai ṯaṯ gagan ḏas ḏu▫ār.
Become aware of reality, in the Sky of the Tenth Gate;
ਦਸਵੇਂ ਦਰਵਾਜ਼ੇ ਦੇ ਆਕਾਸ਼ ਤੇ ਤੂੰ ਅਸਲੀਅਤ ਨੂੰ ਵੇਖ,
ਚੀਨੈ = ਜੋ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਵੇਖਦਾ ਹੈ। ਤਤੁ = ਸਰਬ-ਵਿਆਪਕ ਜੋਤਿ। ਗਗਨ = ਆਕਾਸ਼, ਚਿੱਤ-ਰੂਪ ਆਕਾਸ਼, ਚਿਦਾਕਾਸ਼, ਦਿਮਾਗ਼।
ਜੇਹੜਾ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਹਰ ਥਾਂ ਵਿਆਪਕ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੂੰ ਪਛਾਣ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਨੇ ਮਾਨੋ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਦੁਆਰ ਵਿਚ ਸਮਾਧੀ ਲਾਈ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ।

ਹਰਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਠ ਪੜੈ ਬੀਚਾਰ ੩॥
हरि मुखि पाठ पड़ै बीचार ॥३॥
Har mukẖ pāṯẖ paṛai bīcẖār. ||3||
read aloud the Lord's Word, and contemplate it. ||3||
ਅਤੇ ਤੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਮੂੰਹ ਨਾਲ ਹਰੀ ਦੀ ਵਾਰਤਾ ਵਾਚ ਅਤੇ ਇਸ ਦੀ ਸੋਚ ਵੀਚਾਰ ਕਰ।
ਮੁਖਿ = ਮੂੰਹ ਵਿਚ ॥੩॥
ਜੋ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਨੂੰ ਸਦਾ ਆਪਣੇ ਮੂੰਹ ਵਿਚ ਰੱਖਦਾ ਹੈ (ਉਚਾਰਦਾ), ਉਹ (ਵੇਦ ਆਦਿਕ ਪੁਸਤਕਾਂ ਦੇ) ਵਿਚਾਰ ਪੜ੍ਹ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ ॥੩॥

ਭੋਜਨੁ ਭਾਉ ਭਰਮੁ ਭਉ ਭਾਗੈ
भोजनु भाउ भरमु भउ भागै ॥
Bẖojan bẖā▫o bẖaram bẖa▫o bẖāgai.
With the diet of His Love, doubt and fear depart.
ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤ ਦੀ ਖੁਰਾਕ ਨਾਲ ਵਹਿਮ ਤੇ ਡਰ ਦੌੜ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ।
ਭੋਜਨੁ = ਮੂਰਤੀ ਲਈ ਭੋਗ। ਭਾਉ = ਪ੍ਰੇਮ। ਭਰਮੁ = ਮਨ ਦੀ ਭਟਕਣਾ।
(ਹੇ ਪਾਂਡੇ! ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਚਰਨਾਂ ਨਾਲ) ਪ੍ਰੀਤ (ਜੋੜ, ਇਹ) ਹੈ (ਮੂਰਤੀ ਨੂੰ) ਭੋਗ, (ਇਸ ਦੀ ਬਰਕਤਿ ਨਾਲ) ਮਨ ਦੀ ਭਟਕਣਾ ਦੂਰ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ, ਡਰ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।

ਪਾਹਰੂਅਰਾ ਛਬਿ ਚੋਰੁ ਲਾਗੈ
पाहरूअरा छबि चोरु न लागै ॥
Pāhrū▫arā cẖẖab cẖor na lāgai.
With the Lord as your night watchman, no thief will dare to break in.
ਜੇਕਰ ਰੋਹਬ ਦਾਬ ਵਾਲਾ ਸੰਤਰੀ ਪਹਿਰੇ ਤੇ ਹੋਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਚੋਰ ਰਾਤ ਨੂੰ ਸੰਨ੍ਹ ਨਹੀਂ ਲਾਉਂਦਾ।
ਪਾਹਰੂਅਰਾ = ਰਾਖਾ। ਛਬਿ = ਜਬ੍ਹਾ, ਤੇਜ।
ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਰਾਖੇ ਦਾ ਤੇਜ (ਆਪਣੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਕਰ) ਕੋਈ ਕਾਮਾਦਿਕ ਚੋਰ ਨੇੜੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਢੁਕਦਾ।

ਤਿਲਕੁ ਲਿਲਾਟਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਏਕੁ
तिलकु लिलाटि जाणै प्रभु एकु ॥
Ŧilak lilāt jāṇai parabẖ ek.
Let the knowledge of the One God be the ceremonial mark on your forehead.
ਇਕ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਦੀ ਗਿਆਤ ਹੀ ਮੱਥੇ ਉਪਰ ਦਾ ਟਿੱਕਾ ਹੈ।
ਲਿਲਾਟ = ਮੱਥੇ ਉਤੇ।
ਜੋ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਇਕ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਡੂੰਘੀ ਸਾਂਝ ਪਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਉਸ ਨੇ, ਮਾਨੋ, ਮੱਥੇ ਉਤੇ ਤਿਲਕ ਲਾਇਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ।

ਬੂਝੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਿਬੇਕੁ ੪॥
बूझै ब्रहमु अंतरि बिबेकु ॥४॥
Būjẖai barahm anṯar bibek. ||4||
Let the realization that God is within you be your discrimination. ||4||
ਇਹ ਅਨੁਭਵਕਤਾ ਹੀ ਕਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਤੇਰੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਹੈ, ਤੇਰੀ ਪ੍ਰਬੀਨ ਵੀਚਾਰ ਹੈ।
ਬਿਬੇਕੁ = ਦੋ ਚੀਜ਼ਾਂ ਦਾ ਨਿਖੇੜਾ ਕਰਨ ਦੀ ਸੂਝ ॥੪॥
ਜੋ ਆਪਣੇ ਅੰਦਰ-ਵੱਸਦੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ ਪਛਾਣਦਾ ਹੈ ਉਹ ਚੰਗੇ ਮੰਦੇ ਕੰਮ ਦੀ ਪਰਖ ਸਿੱਖ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਇਹੀ ਹੈ ਅਸਲ ਬਿਬੇਕ) ॥੪॥

ਆਚਾਰੀ ਨਹੀ ਜੀਤਿਆ ਜਾਇ
आचारी नही जीतिआ जाइ ॥
Ācẖārī nahī jīṯi▫ā jā▫e.
Through ritual actions, God cannot be won over;
ਕਰਮ ਕਾਂਡਾਂ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੁ ਜਿੱਤਿਆਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ,
ਆਚਾਰੀ = ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਰਸਮਾਂ ਦੀ ਰਾਹੀਂ।
(ਹੇ ਪਾਂਡੇ!) ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਿਰੀਆਂ ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਰਸਮਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਵੱਸ ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ,

ਪਾਠ ਪੜੈ ਨਹੀ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਪਾਇ
पाठ पड़ै नही कीमति पाइ ॥
Pāṯẖ paṛai nahī kīmaṯ pā▫e.
by reciting sacred scriptures, His value cannot be estimated.
ਨਾਂ ਹੀ ਧਾਰਮਕ ਗ੍ਰੰਥਾਂ ਦੇ ਵਾਚਣ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਉਸ ਦਾ ਮੁੱਲ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ।
ਕੀਮਤਿ = ਕਦਰ।
ਵੇਦ ਆਦਿਕ ਪੁਸਤਕਾਂ ਦੇ ਪਾਠ ਪੜ੍ਹਿਆਂ ਭੀ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਕਦਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈ ਸਕਦੀ।

ਅਸਟ ਦਸੀ ਚਹੁ ਭੇਦੁ ਪਾਇਆ
असट दसी चहु भेदु न पाइआ ॥
Asat ḏasī cẖahu bẖeḏ na pā▫i▫ā.
The eighteen Puraanas and the four Vedas do not know His mystery.
ਅਠਾਹਰਾਂ ਪੁਰਾਣ ਅਤੇ ਚਾਰ ਵੇਦ ਉਸਦੇ ਭੇਤ ਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਣਦੇ।
ਅਸਟਦਸੀ = ਅਠਾਰਾਂ (ਪੁਰਾਣਾਂ) ਨੇ। ਚਹੁ = ਚਾਰ ਵੇਦਾਂ ਨੇ।
ਜਿਸ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਭੇਦ ਅਠਾਰਾਂ ਪੁਰਾਣਾਂ ਤੇ ਚਾਰ ਵੇਦਾਂ ਨੇ ਨਾਹ ਲੱਭਾ,

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ੫॥੨੦॥
नानक सतिगुरि ब्रहमु दिखाइआ ॥५॥२०॥
Nānak saṯgur barahm ḏikẖā▫i▫ā. ||5||20||
O Nanak, the True Guru has shown me the Lord God. ||5||20||
ਨਾਨਕ ਸੱਚੇ ਗੁਰਾਂ ਨੇ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਵਿਖਾਲ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ।
ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ = ਗੁਰੂ ਨੇ ॥੫॥੨੦॥
ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਨੇ (ਸਾਨੂੰ) ਉਹ (ਅੰਦਰ ਬਾਹਰ ਹਰ ਥਾਂ) ਵਿਖਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ ॥੫॥੨੦॥
Regards.
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,387
5,690
Some food for thought.

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In Hinduism, there is the concept of Varna system where the society is stratified into four Varnas or castes - Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Sudras. The Brahmin occupies the highest level in the varna system and is considered to be the priest class in the Varna system of ancient India. In the Hindu Varna System, Brahmins are the priestly sections of the society. The rigid caste system in India had divided the society into four classes. Amongst these the Brahmins were at the top position. They are responsible for solemnising the religious rituals as they were considered the learned ones. Brahmins, the privileged class in the ancient Indian history, used to hold important positions in the royal court and used to receive handsome rewards for performing rituals and ceremonies.

This ancient Hindu caste system is divided on the basis of occupation. With the Vedic religion in ancient India the history of the Brahmin community actually begins. In chapter ten of the Rig Veda, Brahmins were created from the mouth of Purusha. The primary source of knowledge for all Brahmin tradition, both orthodox and heterodox lies in the Vedas. The name Brahman is derived from the root brih or vrih, meaning to increase. The origin of the Brahmins can be traced back to 6000 B.C. the earliest references are found in Vedas. Brahmins are known as Vedic People. Vedas depict them as a population originating in North India, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Sages like Vishwamitra, Agastya, Brihaspati, Daksha, Kashyapa, Manu, Parasara, Vashishta, Vyasa and Yamaand and several others are mentioned in the mythological texts and Vedas. They imparted education and led a life of simplicity. The life of an Indian Brahmin is divided into four stages - Brahmacharya, Grihastha, Vanaprastha and Sannyasa.

(http://www.indianetzone.com/21/brahmins_indian_caste.htm)
The following a sabad/Hymn from Sikhism Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji,


Depiction of Brahmin in Sri Guru Granth Sahib?

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ
आसा महला १ ॥
Āsā mėhlā 1.
Aasaa, First Mehl:
ਰਾਗ ਆਸਾ ਪਹਿਲੀ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ।
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XXX

ਕਾਇਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਮਨੁ ਹੈ ਧੋਤੀ
काइआ ब्रहमा मनु है धोती ॥
Kā▫i▫ā barahmā man hai ḏẖoṯī.
Let the body be the Brahmin, and let the mind be the loin-cloth;
ਮੈਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਤਨ ਨੂੰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਨ, ਦਿਲ ਨੂੰ ਧੋਤੀ, ਗਿਆਨ ਨੂੰ ਜਨੇਊ,
ਕਾਇਆ = ਸਰੀਰ, ਮਨੁੱਖਾ ਸਰੀਰ, ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਬਚਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਸਰੀਰ। ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ = ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ। ਮਨੁ = ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਮਨ।
(ਨਾਮ ਦੀ ਬਰਕਤਿ ਨਾਲ ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਬਚਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ) ਮਨੁੱਖਾ ਸਰੀਰ ਹੀ (ਉੱਚ-ਜਾਤੀਆ) ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਹੈ, (ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਹੋਇਆ) ਮਨ (ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਦੀ) ਧੋਤੀ ਹੈ।

ਗਿਆਨੁ ਜਨੇਊ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕੁਸਪਾਤੀ
गिआनु जनेऊ धिआनु कुसपाती ॥
Gi▫ān jane▫ū ḏẖi▫ān kuspāṯī.
let spiritual wisdom be the sacred thread, and meditation the ceremonial ring.
ਅਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਧਿਆਨ (ਸਿਮਰਨ) ਨੂੰ ਦੱਭ ਦੇ ਪੱਤੇ ਬਣਾਉਂਦਾ ਹਾਂ।
ਗਿਆਨੁ = ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲਡੂੰਘੀ ਸਾਂਝ। ਧਿਆਨੁ = ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਯਾਦ ਵਿਚ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਜੋੜਨੀ। ਕੁਸ = ਦੱਭ। ਕੁਸ ਪਾਤੀ =ਦੱਭ ਦਾ ਛੱਲਾ (ਜੋ ਚੀਚੀ ਦੀ ਨਾਲ ਦੀ ਉਂਗਲੀ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਦਾ ਹੈ ਕੋਈ ਪੂਜਾ ਆਦਿਕ ਕਰਨਵੇਲੇ)।
ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਡੂੰਘੀ ਜਾਣ-ਪਛਾਣ ਜਨੇਊ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਚਰਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਜੁੜੀ ਹੋਈ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਦੱਭ ਦਾ ਛੱਲਾ।

ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾ ਜਸੁ ਜਾਚਉ ਨਾਉ
हरि नामा जसु जाचउ नाउ ॥
Har nāmā jas jācẖa▫o nā▫o.
I seek the Name of the Lord and His Praise as my cleansing bath.
ਤੀਰਥਾਂ ਉਤੇ ਇਸ਼ਨਾਨ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਮੈਂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਅਤੇ ਸਿਫ਼ਤ ਸ਼ਲਾਘਾ ਮੰਗਦਾ ਹਾਂ।
ਜਸੁ = ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ। ਜਾਚਉ = ਮੈਂ ਮੰਗਦਾ ਹਾਂ।
ਮੈਂ ਤਾਂ (ਹੇ ਪਾਂਡੇ!) ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ (ਦੱਛਣਾ) ਮੰਗਦਾ ਹਾਂ, ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਹੀ ਮੰਗਦਾ ਹਾਂ,

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਿ ਸਮਾਉ ੧॥
गुर परसादी ब्रहमि समाउ ॥१॥
Gur parsādī barahm samā▫o. ||1||
By Guru's Grace, I am absorbed into God. ||1||
ਗੁਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਰਹਿਮਤ ਸਦਕਾ, ਮੈਂ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਅੰਦਰ ਲੀਨ ਹੋ ਜਾਵਾਂਗਾ।
ਪਰਸਾਦੀ = ਪਰਸਾਦਿ, ਕਿਰਪਾ ਨਾਲ। ਬ੍ਰਹਮਿ = ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਵਿਚ। ਸਮਾਉ = ਮੈਂ ਲੀਨ ਰਹਾਂ ॥੧॥
ਤਾਕਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਨਾਲ (ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰ ਕੇ) ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਵਿਚ ਲੀਨ ਰਹਾਂ ॥੧॥

ਪਾਂਡੇ ਐਸਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ
पांडे ऐसा ब्रहम बीचारु ॥
Pāʼnde aisā barahm bīcẖār.
O Pandit, O religious scholar, contemplate God in such a way
ਹੇ ਪੰਡਿਤ! ਐਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਕਰ,
ਪਾਂਡੇ = ਹੇ ਪੰਡਿਤ!
ਹੇ ਪਾਂਡੇ! ਤੂੰ ਭੀ ਇਸੇ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਗੁਣਾਂ ਦਾ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਰ।

ਨਾਮੇ ਸੁਚਿ ਨਾਮੋ ਪੜਉ ਨਾਮੇ ਚਜੁ ਆਚਾਰੁ ੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
नामे सुचि नामो पड़उ नामे चजु आचारु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Nāme sucẖ nāmo paṛa▫o nāme cẖaj ācẖār. ||1|| rahā▫o.
that His Name may sanctify you, that His Name may be your study, and His Name your wisdom and way of life. ||1||Pause||
ਕਿ ਉਸ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਵਿੱਤ੍ਰਤਾ, ਉਸ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੀ ਪੜ੍ਹਾਈ, ਉਸ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਿਆਣਪ ਅਤੇ ਜੀਵਨ-ਰਹੁ-ਰੀਤੀ ਹੋਵੇ। ਠਹਿਰਾਉ।
ਨਾਮੇ = ਨਾਮ ਵਿਚ ਹੀ।ਨਾਮੋ ਪੜਉ = ਮੈਂ ਨਾਮ (-ਰੂਪ ਵੇਦ ਆਦਿਕ) ਪੜ੍ਹਦਾ ਹਾਂ। ਚਜੁ = ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਰਸਮਾਂਕਰਨੀਆਂ। ਆਚਾਰੁ = ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਰਸਮਾਂ ਕਰਨੀਆਂ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਵਿਚ ਹੀ ਸੁੱਚ ਹੈ, ਮੈਂ ਤਾਂ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ-ਸਿਮਰਨ (-ਰੂਪ ਵੇਦ) ਪੜ੍ਹਦਾਹਾਂ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਵਿਚ ਹੀ ਸਾਰੀਆਂ ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਰਸਮਾਂ ਆ ਜਾਂਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਬਾਹਰਿ ਜਨੇਊ ਜਿਚਰੁ ਜੋਤਿ ਹੈ ਨਾਲਿ
बाहरि जनेऊ जिचरु जोति है नालि ॥
Bāhar jane▫ū jicẖar joṯ hai nāl.
The outer sacred thread is worthwhile only as long as the Divine Light is within.
ਬਾਹਰਲਾ ਜੰਞੂ ਤਦ ਤਾਂਈ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜਦ ਤੋੜੀਂ ਈਸ਼ਵਰੀ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਤੇਰੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਹੈ।
ਬਾਹਰਿ = ਸਰੀਰ ਉਤੇ ਪਾਇਆ ਹੋਇਆ।
(ਹੇ ਪਾਂਡੇ!) ਬਾਹਰਲਾ ਜਨੇਊ ਉਤਨਾ ਚਿਰ ਹੀ ਹੈ, ਜਿਤਨਾ ਚਿਰ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੀਰ ਵਿਚ ਮੌਜੂਦ ਹੈ (ਫਿਰ ਇਹ ਕਿਸ ਕੰਮ?)

ਧੋਤੀ ਟਿਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ
धोती टिका नामु समालि ॥
Ḏẖoṯī tikā nām samāl.
So make the remembrance of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, your loin-cloth and the ceremonial mark on your forehead.
ਨਾਮ ਦੇ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਤੇੜ ਦੀ ਚਾਦਰ ਅਤੇ ਤਿਲਕ ਬਣਾ।
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ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਸਾਂਭ-ਇਹੀ ਹੈ ਧੋਤੀ ਇਹੀ ਹੈ ਟਿੱਕਾ।

ਐਥੈ ਓਥੈ ਨਿਬਹੀ ਨਾਲਿ
ऐथै ओथै निबही नालि ॥
Aithai othai nibhī nāl.
Here and hereafter, the Name alone shall stand by you.
ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਏਥੇ ਅਤੇ ਓਥੇ ਤੇਰਾ ਪੱਖ ਪੂਰੇਗਾ।
ਐਥੇ = ਇਸ ਲੋਕ ਵਿਚ। ਓਥੈ = ਪਰਲੋਕ ਵਿਚ।
ਇਹ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਲੋਕ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਵਿਚ ਸਾਥ ਨਿਭਾਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ।

ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਹੋਰਿ ਕਰਮ ਭਾਲਿ ੨॥
विणु नावै होरि करम न भालि ॥२॥
viṇ nāvai hor karam na bẖāl. ||2||
Do not seek any other actions, except the Name. ||2||
ਨਾਮ ਦੇ ਬਗੈਰ, ਹੋਰਸ ਅਮਲਾਂ ਦੀ ਖੋਜ ਭਾਲ ਨਾਂ ਕਰ।
ਹੋਰਿ = {ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ 'ਹੋਰ' ਤੋਂ ਬਹੁ-ਵਚਨ}। ਭਾਲਿ = ਲੱਭ ॥੨॥
(ਹੇ ਪਾਂਡੇ!) ਨਾਮ ਵਿਸਾਰ ਕੇ ਹੋਰ ਹੋਰ ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਰਸਮਾਂ ਨਾਹ ਭਾਲਦਾ ਫਿਰ ॥੨॥

ਪੂਜਾ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਮਾਇਆ ਪਰਜਾਲਿ
पूजा प्रेम माइआ परजालि ॥
Pūjā parem mā▫i▫ā parjāl.
Worship the Lord in loving adoration, and burn your desire for Maya.
ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਪਿਆਰ ਨਾਲ ਉਪਾਸ਼ਨਾ ਕਰ ਤੇ ਧਨ ਦੌਲਤ ਦੀ ਖ਼ਾਹਿਸ਼ ਨੂੰ ਸਾੜ ਸੁੱਟ।
ਪੂਜਾ = ਮੂਰਤੀ ਅਗੇ ਧੂਪ ਧੁਖਾਣਾ। ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਮਾਇਆ = ਮਾਇਆ ਦਾ ਮੋਹ। ਪਰਜਾਲਿ = ਚੰਗੀ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਸਾੜ ਦੇ।
(ਨਾਮ ਵਿਚ ਜੁੜ ਕੇ) ਮਾਇਆ ਦਾ ਮੋਹ (ਆਪਣੇ ਅੰਦਰੋਂ) ਚੰਗੀ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਸਾੜ ਦੇ-ਇਹੀ ਹੈ ਦੇਵ-ਪੂਜਾ।

ਏਕੋ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਭਾਲਿ
एको वेखहु अवरु न भालि ॥
Ėko vekẖhu avar na bẖāl.
Behold only the One Lord, and do not seek out any other.
ਕੇਵਲ ਇੱਕ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਨੂੰ ਦੇਖ, ਤੇ ਹੋਰ ਕਿਸੇ ਦੀ ਤਲਾਸ਼ ਨਾਂ ਕਰ।
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ਹਰ ਥਾਂ ਇਕ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੂੰ ਵੇਖ, (ਹੇ ਪਾਂਡੇ!) ਉਸ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਕਿਸੇ ਹੋਰ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਨੂੰ ਨਾਹ ਲੱਭਦਾ ਰਹੁ।

ਚੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਤਤੁ ਗਗਨ ਦਸ ਦੁਆਰ
चीन्है ततु गगन दस दुआर ॥
Cẖīnĥai ṯaṯ gagan ḏas ḏu▫ār.
Become aware of reality, in the Sky of the Tenth Gate;
ਦਸਵੇਂ ਦਰਵਾਜ਼ੇ ਦੇ ਆਕਾਸ਼ ਤੇ ਤੂੰ ਅਸਲੀਅਤ ਨੂੰ ਵੇਖ,
ਚੀਨੈ = ਜੋ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਵੇਖਦਾ ਹੈ। ਤਤੁ = ਸਰਬ-ਵਿਆਪਕ ਜੋਤਿ। ਗਗਨ = ਆਕਾਸ਼, ਚਿੱਤ-ਰੂਪ ਆਕਾਸ਼, ਚਿਦਾਕਾਸ਼, ਦਿਮਾਗ਼।
ਜੇਹੜਾ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਹਰ ਥਾਂ ਵਿਆਪਕ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੂੰ ਪਛਾਣ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਨੇ ਮਾਨੋ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਦੁਆਰ ਵਿਚ ਸਮਾਧੀ ਲਾਈ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ।

ਹਰਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਠ ਪੜੈ ਬੀਚਾਰ ੩॥
हरि मुखि पाठ पड़ै बीचार ॥३॥
Har mukẖ pāṯẖ paṛai bīcẖār. ||3||
read aloud the Lord's Word, and contemplate it. ||3||
ਅਤੇ ਤੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਮੂੰਹ ਨਾਲ ਹਰੀ ਦੀ ਵਾਰਤਾ ਵਾਚ ਅਤੇ ਇਸ ਦੀ ਸੋਚ ਵੀਚਾਰ ਕਰ।
ਮੁਖਿ = ਮੂੰਹ ਵਿਚ ॥੩॥
ਜੋ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਨੂੰ ਸਦਾ ਆਪਣੇ ਮੂੰਹ ਵਿਚ ਰੱਖਦਾ ਹੈ (ਉਚਾਰਦਾ), ਉਹ (ਵੇਦ ਆਦਿਕ ਪੁਸਤਕਾਂ ਦੇ) ਵਿਚਾਰ ਪੜ੍ਹ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ ॥੩॥

ਭੋਜਨੁ ਭਾਉ ਭਰਮੁ ਭਉ ਭਾਗੈ
भोजनु भाउ भरमु भउ भागै ॥
Bẖojan bẖā▫o bẖaram bẖa▫o bẖāgai.
With the diet of His Love, doubt and fear depart.
ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤ ਦੀ ਖੁਰਾਕ ਨਾਲ ਵਹਿਮ ਤੇ ਡਰ ਦੌੜ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ।
ਭੋਜਨੁ = ਮੂਰਤੀ ਲਈ ਭੋਗ। ਭਾਉ = ਪ੍ਰੇਮ। ਭਰਮੁ = ਮਨ ਦੀ ਭਟਕਣਾ।
(ਹੇ ਪਾਂਡੇ! ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਚਰਨਾਂ ਨਾਲ) ਪ੍ਰੀਤ (ਜੋੜ, ਇਹ) ਹੈ (ਮੂਰਤੀ ਨੂੰ) ਭੋਗ, (ਇਸ ਦੀ ਬਰਕਤਿ ਨਾਲ) ਮਨ ਦੀ ਭਟਕਣਾ ਦੂਰ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ, ਡਰ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।

ਪਾਹਰੂਅਰਾ ਛਬਿ ਚੋਰੁ ਲਾਗੈ
पाहरूअरा छबि चोरु न लागै ॥
Pāhrū▫arā cẖẖab cẖor na lāgai.
With the Lord as your night watchman, no thief will dare to break in.
ਜੇਕਰ ਰੋਹਬ ਦਾਬ ਵਾਲਾ ਸੰਤਰੀ ਪਹਿਰੇ ਤੇ ਹੋਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਚੋਰ ਰਾਤ ਨੂੰ ਸੰਨ੍ਹ ਨਹੀਂ ਲਾਉਂਦਾ।
ਪਾਹਰੂਅਰਾ = ਰਾਖਾ। ਛਬਿ = ਜਬ੍ਹਾ, ਤੇਜ।
ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਰਾਖੇ ਦਾ ਤੇਜ (ਆਪਣੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਕਰ) ਕੋਈ ਕਾਮਾਦਿਕ ਚੋਰ ਨੇੜੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਢੁਕਦਾ।

ਤਿਲਕੁ ਲਿਲਾਟਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਏਕੁ
तिलकु लिलाटि जाणै प्रभु एकु ॥
Ŧilak lilāt jāṇai parabẖ ek.
Let the knowledge of the One God be the ceremonial mark on your forehead.
ਇਕ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਦੀ ਗਿਆਤ ਹੀ ਮੱਥੇ ਉਪਰ ਦਾ ਟਿੱਕਾ ਹੈ।
ਲਿਲਾਟ = ਮੱਥੇ ਉਤੇ।
ਜੋ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਇਕ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਡੂੰਘੀ ਸਾਂਝ ਪਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਉਸ ਨੇ, ਮਾਨੋ, ਮੱਥੇ ਉਤੇ ਤਿਲਕ ਲਾਇਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ।

ਬੂਝੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਿਬੇਕੁ ੪॥
बूझै ब्रहमु अंतरि बिबेकु ॥४॥
Būjẖai barahm anṯar bibek. ||4||
Let the realization that God is within you be your discrimination. ||4||
ਇਹ ਅਨੁਭਵਕਤਾ ਹੀ ਕਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਤੇਰੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਹੈ, ਤੇਰੀ ਪ੍ਰਬੀਨ ਵੀਚਾਰ ਹੈ।
ਬਿਬੇਕੁ = ਦੋ ਚੀਜ਼ਾਂ ਦਾ ਨਿਖੇੜਾ ਕਰਨ ਦੀ ਸੂਝ ॥੪॥
ਜੋ ਆਪਣੇ ਅੰਦਰ-ਵੱਸਦੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ ਪਛਾਣਦਾ ਹੈ ਉਹ ਚੰਗੇ ਮੰਦੇ ਕੰਮ ਦੀ ਪਰਖ ਸਿੱਖ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਇਹੀ ਹੈ ਅਸਲ ਬਿਬੇਕ) ॥੪॥

ਆਚਾਰੀ ਨਹੀ ਜੀਤਿਆ ਜਾਇ
आचारी नही जीतिआ जाइ ॥
Ācẖārī nahī jīṯi▫ā jā▫e.
Through ritual actions, God cannot be won over;
ਕਰਮ ਕਾਂਡਾਂ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੁ ਜਿੱਤਿਆਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ,
ਆਚਾਰੀ = ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਰਸਮਾਂ ਦੀ ਰਾਹੀਂ।
(ਹੇ ਪਾਂਡੇ!) ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਿਰੀਆਂ ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਰਸਮਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਵੱਸ ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ,

ਪਾਠ ਪੜੈ ਨਹੀ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਪਾਇ
पाठ पड़ै नही कीमति पाइ ॥
Pāṯẖ paṛai nahī kīmaṯ pā▫e.
by reciting sacred scriptures, His value cannot be estimated.
ਨਾਂ ਹੀ ਧਾਰਮਕ ਗ੍ਰੰਥਾਂ ਦੇ ਵਾਚਣ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਉਸ ਦਾ ਮੁੱਲ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ।
ਕੀਮਤਿ = ਕਦਰ।
ਵੇਦ ਆਦਿਕ ਪੁਸਤਕਾਂ ਦੇ ਪਾਠ ਪੜ੍ਹਿਆਂ ਭੀ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਕਦਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈ ਸਕਦੀ।

ਅਸਟ ਦਸੀ ਚਹੁ ਭੇਦੁ ਪਾਇਆ
असट दसी चहु भेदु न पाइआ ॥
Asat ḏasī cẖahu bẖeḏ na pā▫i▫ā.
The eighteen Puraanas and the four Vedas do not know His mystery.
ਅਠਾਹਰਾਂ ਪੁਰਾਣ ਅਤੇ ਚਾਰ ਵੇਦ ਉਸਦੇ ਭੇਤ ਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਣਦੇ।
ਅਸਟਦਸੀ = ਅਠਾਰਾਂ (ਪੁਰਾਣਾਂ) ਨੇ। ਚਹੁ = ਚਾਰ ਵੇਦਾਂ ਨੇ।
ਜਿਸ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਭੇਦ ਅਠਾਰਾਂ ਪੁਰਾਣਾਂ ਤੇ ਚਾਰ ਵੇਦਾਂ ਨੇ ਨਾਹ ਲੱਭਾ,

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ੫॥੨੦॥
नानक सतिगुरि ब्रहमु दिखाइआ ॥५॥२०॥
Nānak saṯgur barahm ḏikẖā▫i▫ā. ||5||20||
O Nanak, the True Guru has shown me the Lord God. ||5||20||
ਨਾਨਕ ਸੱਚੇ ਗੁਰਾਂ ਨੇ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਵਿਖਾਲ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ।
ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ = ਗੁਰੂ ਨੇ ॥੫॥੨੦॥
ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਨੇ (ਸਾਨੂੰ) ਉਹ (ਅੰਦਰ ਬਾਹਰ ਹਰ ਥਾਂ) ਵਿਖਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ ॥੫॥੨੦॥
Regards.
 

BhagatSingh

SPNer
Apr 24, 2006
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Confused ji,
We also pass on our genes. So the genes which make someone an excellent Brahmin are passed on to his offspring, increasing the likelyhood that he will be good at (and thus more likely to choose) the same profession. The qualities we posses like intelligence, love for learning, love for knowledge and truth, ability to maintain focus, etc actually have a biological basis. So the offspring is more likely to have the qualities a Brahmin has. They do often carry over from profession to profession. Strong leadership is good not only for Kshatriya, for example.

Dogra ji,
5) Who said anything about top, there is no top nor bottom, just functions e.g. in an office there is big boss director, there is middle level, clerical workers and cleaner, now cleaner has lowest pay, but does that make them bottom in terms of spirituality, absolutely not, as there is dignity of labour
I agree in that sense. But a Guru is definitely higher than a student. Should we then place all the blame on Gurus for controlling society? No we don't do this. Gurus have earned that place because they have worked for it. They know what is good for a society so it is good for us that they guide us. Should we blame a good warrior for violence and bloodshed? No we don't do this because they have a role to play, that is to defend our territories so that we can live in a safe environment which gives us freedom to blame them in teh first place. Should we blame a scientist for appealing to scientific authority? The scientist is the one in the front lines doing experiments and expanding a particular field, working within a paradigm. You are not the one doing so. You do not understand his field of expertise, therefore you RELY on his authority to guide. He can only be challenged by other scientists in the field. If you want to challenge him you need to go into the field and gain a similar level of expertise. It is the same in any field. The experts of the field control it. Brahmins are no different.

I think Brahmins are unduly bashed in Sikh circles, and there is a unrealistic image of them, almost as if they (and Muslims) were the demons of Sikh mythology. This is a false image of both communities. Adi Shankaracharya ji bowed to a low caste, whom he realized to be enlightened. Guru Ramanand ji (whose student Bhagat Kabir ji's writings form a large portion of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, as Kabir ji's writings were available) was a Brahmin, he allowed members of all castes and outcastes to benefit from his teachings (Bhagat Ravidas and Bhagat Dhana were two of his students). An example of such a Brahmin (economist and political scientist) is also present as the guide of King Chandra Gupta Maurya, who helped Maurya build the Mauryan empire. Kirpa Ram Dutt was Guru Gobind Singh ji's Sanskrit teacher.

Prakash ji,
You are right, it was in the Khalsa that there was no class. But you have to admit, Khalsa is itself technically the warrior class. Guru Gobind Singh ji ordered all Khalsa to carry a kurd, dagger (along with wearing kachera and kes), to learn shastar vidya, to learn to defend themselves and their territories and families and to wreck havoc on their enemies. He made accessible to them the warrior epics of Indian tradition, the exploits of Chandi in battle. He told them to hunt. He gave all Khalsa the same last name of Singh, the common ruling, warrior class last name. All of which was done to instill within them a warrior spirit.

The Khalsa reminds me of the 300 men in Leonidas's army.
Spartans, What is your Profession? - YouTube
"Khalsa! what is your profession?"
"Akal! Akal! Akal!"

Khalsa did not consider themselves to be potters, sculptors and blacksmiths but warriors serving under the guidance of their Guru.
 
Nov 14, 2004
408
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Bhagat ji,


I read you express this view before in other messages and wanted to respond to it but couldn't. But I will do it now.


Confused ji,
We also pass on our genes. So the genes which make someone an excellent Brahmin are passed on to his offspring, increasing the likelyhood that he will be good at (and thus more likely to choose) the same profession. The qualities we posses like intelligence, love for learning, love for knowledge and truth, ability to maintain focus, etc actually have a biological basis. So the offspring is more likely to have the qualities a Brahmin has. They do often carry over from profession to profession. Strong leadership is good not only for Kshatriya, for example.


I am quite sure that you will not find a correspondence between this and any of the ancient religions, including Sikh. And it is not because there was no knowledge about genes then, but rather that the view you express is a materialistic one. Science which reduces mental phenomena as being byproduct of material phenomena will read into all its discoveries the materialistic view. The ancients however knew mental phenomena to be completely different from physical phenomena.

As I suggested in a message to Ambarsaria ji, genes being ultimately material phenomena, what is passed on from one generation to the next are only physical attributes. Mental phenomena on the other hand rise and fall away and condition the next one to arise on and on. All tendencies reside in the one instance of consciousness which passes on everything to the succeeding consciousness by way of several conditions, most notably contiguity condition.

Physically, I am almost a carbon copy of my father. But mentally, apart from being hot tempered and great attachment to taste, I see few similarities. Yes, there is this that when we think in terms of basic tendencies such as attachment to sense objects, anger, lust, pride, kindness, giving, morality and so on, we *all* have these to a lesser or greater degree. It is therefore easy to jump to conclusions when observing any two persons who happen to react more or less similarly to particular situations that their habits are the same, but this can be misleading. Indeed it is our habit to generalize and jump to conclusions, but this is because we do not in fact at the time, understand reality.

But of course there is also the fact that the Karma which conditions rebirth, just as this determines the kind of being one is born as, when a human being, also determines the kind of family one is born into. Just like now, we tend to associate with like-minded people; members of one family may have certain inclinations similar to each other. Also that particular karma marshals other karmas to bear fruit in what might then be seen as a 'pattern'. So if different members of a family receive more or less the same set of experiences, it is not surprising that the son for example, has developed over time, conditioned responses similarly to the father.

And imagine this. If the son becomes enlightened but the father doesn't, the habits of the son must clearly have changed completely. Would this mean that his genes must also have changed? No, because genes don't change…..

But really, gene is a concept and is never the object of wisdom, which is why it would never be the concern of the wise of old. More importantly though, they knew that particular material realities (from which the concept 'gene' is derived) may act as “base” or place of birth for the arising of mental realities, for example, the eye-base is birthplace for seeing consciousness and ear-base for hearing, and they know that some of them are “caused by” mentality, such as speech and bodily intimation. *But materiality can never be the “cause” for mentality*. To think that it does must be due to the influence of a materialistic view which is one kind of wrong view. Indeed this view understands neither mental nor physical phenomena since to understand one requires understanding the other as well. So really, science is completely ignorant when it comes to reality / Truth.

Why would someone interested in religion be moved by the findings of science in such matters? Religion encourages the increase in good and reduction of evil and these clearly points to a mechanism within the mental phenomena not related to any material phenomena. Wisdom is developed by repeated arising. Good vs. evil, one increase in frequency over the other is by virtue of whether there is more wisdom or there is more ignorance.

When a religion encourages us to do good and avoid evil, what does this imply? Is it not that one must see the value of good and the harm of evil and that in this very seeing is the right course of action taken? Wherefore the necessity to refer to materiality and gene or even brain? If materiality was the cause for mentality then science could very well come out one day with an enlightenment pill. But enlightened people of the past *did not* have any pill nor it mattered which caste he or she was born into. This is because the development of wisdom follows a path which requires recognition of the obstructions such as ignorance, craving, wrong understanding and so on. Can a pill eradicate any of these tendencies, ones that have been accumulated from aeons in the past?

Besides if we are to except Karma and the fact of rebirth, what of the fact that in the last life we were a {censored}roach and now a human being and these two have very different genes?

Very misleading I'd say this idea that genes influence our inclinations and habits. Besides this actually leans toward a deterministic view which science itself at other times object to. :-/
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
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Dec 21, 2010
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Besides if we are to except Karma and the fact of rebirth, what of the fact that in the last life we were a {censored}roach and now a human being and these two have very different genes?
Confused ji thanks for your post.

I hope you realize tha Genetics has killed re-incarnation. A la ".. last life we were a {censored}roach and now a human being". This don't happen bro :sippingcoffeemunda:.

I am running low on energy but will pick up and comment on other posts in the future. I virtually read all your posts end-to-end but timing varies. Always enjoy whether agree, disagree or get beaten by you lol

Metta.
 
Nov 14, 2004
408
388
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Ambarsaria ji,


Confused ji thanks for your post.

I hope you realize tha Genetics has killed re-incarnation. A la ".. last life we were a {censored}roach and now a human being". This don't happen bro :sippingcoffeemunda:.

I am running low on energy but will pick up and comment on other posts in the future. I virtually read all your posts end-to-end but timing varies. Always enjoy whether agree, disagree or get beaten by you lol


Metta.


:)
And I thought that I just killed genetics, the part it professes to make a statement about habitual tendencies.

But I'll wait for your response to say more.
 

sanj007

SPNer
Dec 13, 2010
136
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Confused ji,

Adi Shankaracharya ji bowed to a low caste, whom he realized to be enlightened. Guru Ramanand ji (whose student Bhagat Kabir ji's writings form a large portion of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, as Kabir ji's writings were available) was a Brahmin, he allowed members of all castes and outcastes to benefit from his teachings (Bhagat Ravidas and Bhagat Dhana were two of his students). An example of such a Brahmin (economist and political scientist) is also present as the guide of King Chandra Gupta Maurya, who helped Maurya build the Mauryan empire. Kirpa Ram Dutt was Guru Gobind Singh ji's Sanskrit teacher.

.

Indeed, but again there is no higher nor lower caste, in fact there is no caste in Sanatan Dharma. Varna system is that whereby any individual can attain any function by their practice and study, completere freedom of choice regardless of any Birth.
http://agniveer.com/888/caste-system/
Varna’ means one that is adopted by choice. Thus, while Jaati is provided by God, ‘Varna’ is our own choice.
Those who choose to be Arya are called ‘Arya Varna’. Those who choose to be Dasyu become ‘Dasyu Varna’. Same for Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra.
That is why Vedic Dharma is called ‘Varnashram Dharma’. The word Varna itself implies that this is based on complete freedom of choice and meritocracy.
Due to Internet verses are reducating many more people, and we are questioning more, and trying to reconcile main points.
Point of Guru being higher is in terms of Knowledge, but in terms of essence of human being, treat Cleaner and Guru on equal terms, e.g. accept themto Dinner table, share food together, accept any of their offspring, if suitable in character terms, for marriage for relatives.....
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Jan 31, 2011
5,769
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Confusedji

some comments

You feel horny and about to wake your wife up, but suddenly think that she needs a rest, so you don't wake her up.

Do all these not clearly point to mental actions?
When you steal or kill, these are bodily actions, but are they not conditioned by the mind? What you refer to as discipline, is this not about will, determination and restraint all mental phenomena? Body is body, it is a physical phenomenon and physical phenomenon, unlike mental phenomenon, does not know anything.

I have to concede this

So you still think Hesse had something substantial to say and understood what enlightenment means…..

In all honesty, I have a huge affinity for Hesse, I think we are both as misguided and lost as each other


But frankly I don't understand your response, what point are you making? Besides what I said with reference to the past is not that there is no learning *in* the past, but rather that there is no learning *from thinking about* the past.

I think about the past a lot, and not always in a learning capacity, I am ashamed to say that if I am honest, I yearn for the past, and not to change things either, but to do it all again, but I guess that is selective memory, I remember the good times, the pleasure, not the fear, not the pain.

And in case you doubt this, allow me draw your attention to the fact of wise people of all traditions, including I believe Sikhism as well, pointing out the uselessness of thinking about the past and future and the importance being in the present. Indeed given that we think almost all the time with attachment, aversion and ignorance, in this particular case of seeking to learn from the past there must also be wrong understanding involved. And this more than anything else, takes one further away from the possibility of understanding the reality of what is “now”.

Again, if I am posting honestly, and I am in a particular honest mood, I spend a lot of the time either in the past or planning the future, the now seems to be something I just have to suffer

You are attached to the story of your life as we all are to ours. What is recalled, how different scenes are arranged and what value is given to each and the overall story is dictated by the ignorance and attachment now. Would you want this to continue on or would you rather develop more understanding of thinking and what motivates the thinking?

Although I was happy that I had felt I had conquered my demons, you are suggesting that all I have done is develop an aversion to them, and I still do not understand why. I think you could be correct

There can be no real learning when ignorance and attachment is at the root. And it is clear that when such thinking goes on, conceit or ego is being encouraged as well. Knowing this, I'm sure you'd not want this to continue, would you?

There are some days when it flows, when everything makes sense, days like the day I posted this reply, today I struggle to see the point of view I was making, possibly because I am agitated, I am not sure, however, today I feel like I have learned nothing, I have simply been burnt, I have a childish response to it, not a response of true understanding, so, no, I do not wish this to continue, however I run the risk of losing those days when it does flow, when it does make sense, for understanding 100% of the time, it is a risk and one I have to think carefully about taking

If there is no wisdom, can anything of value be seen for what it is?

certainly food for thought


You can go on with your life as it is without the need to judge any of it as 'progress'. Indeed if you think this way with attachment, this is a step backwards is it not? You should take care not to judge any reduction in sense-indulgence as 'moderation' as this in fact is an aspect of wisdom. If what you do is diversion and / or suppression of some kind, you'd need to know it for what it is and not think that you've made progress in terms of morality and wisdom. And why would someone who seeks to understand, look for peace? So again you should not judge the value of what you do in terms of how much peace you now experience.

This is something to contemplate on tonight, I thank you again for your time and energies
 
Mar 22, 2012
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SSA,

Just I want to add one of the Hindu point of view on the above article.

I have gone through all the post on this article, what I noticed here that few Sikhs see hindu religion as untouchable and a total myth, even tough they again and again say they respect Hindu religion. What type of respect is this?
I have a deep faith in Sri Guru Granth Sahibji and all Ten Gurus and his beloved ones, and for this I dont need any Sikh certificate to prove my love and respect to Sri Guru Granth Sahibji and all Ten Gurus and his beloved ones.

My mind and soul is in Babjis feet, I know he will show me what a true Sikhi is.

U Sikh behave just like Brahmins, how Hindu Gods are just property of Brahmins, Same way Sikh want to keep Sri Guru Granth Sahibji and all Ten Gurus only to them.

But they belongs to all who love them, Baba Nanak has eaten food from Low cast Bhai Lalo (might be he was a Low cast hindu), same way Lord Ram has eaten, half eaten barries from Low cast Sabri.

My knowledge on Sri Guru Granth Sahibji in nothing I can not even touch him, but just a meer glance on him gives me peace in my heart.

I know you all are big scholars on Sri Guru Granth Sahibji, but still I fee "Ja ke rahe bhavna Jaise, Hair Murat Dikhe tin tahe taise" (means Gods will look same as how u want to see him), so if some one says Sri Guru Granth Sahibji says all Hindus texts and books are myths, Its just that individual feeling want he want to take it out of Babaji and its not actually Sri Guru Granth Sahibji word.

Gurfateh
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
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Babajis Servant ji thanks for your post. Very well written post. I have one comment,
I know you all are big scholars on Sri Guru Granth Sahibji, but still I fee "Ja ke rahe bhavna Jaise, Hair Murat Dikhe tin tahe taise" (means Gods will look same as how u want to see him), so if some one says Sri Guru Granth Sahibji says all Hindus texts and books are myths, Its just that individual feeling want he want to take it out of Babaji and its not actually Sri Guru Granth Sahibji word. Gurfateh
Your comment about seeing what you want to see is generally quite applicable. In respect to Guru ji's we need to note though that they were trying to encourage different and beyond Hinduism beliefs. Their end objective to me was that to enlighten people and encourage them to openly and truthfully see what is the creator. They made tremendous use of existing beliefs as those were their audience. They did encourage people to unshackle from blind believing and I believe that is fundamental.

Beyond the above everyone is unique and special in creation and so it should be recognized.

Regards. mundahug
 
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