Islam Is Islam Scientific?

[Zahim Nasir]

Zahim Nasir ji

You used the word "you" or "your" several times above. I am sure you are not asking me personally because I did not start this thread.

The "fixation with Islam" your words is something that continues on the world wide web as far as I can tell. The fixation with religion versus science also continues on the world wide web. So it is not surprising to see a thread about Science and Islam here at SPN, because we are on the web.

Here is some light that I can shed on the "fixation" from a different angle. There have been other forum members from the faith of Islam who began threads, or participated in threads, using a very consistent strategy. First to ask what seemed to be an honest question about Sikhism and a concept that seemed ambiguous to them. Second, followed up with the charge that Sikhs lack a scripture that says black and white how to understand a concept or follow a practice. Third step, they then launch into a days-long tirade about the weaknesses of the Sikh faith and Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Finally, a longer discourse is offered on the superiority of Islam as a religion. Some of us have come to recognize this pattern as "dawah" or an a deliberate program of proselytizing. They capitalize on the possibility that there may be individuals who are unsure about the Sikh faith -- for various reasons not limited to but including a lack of religious education. Once it is apparent that "dawah" is underway -- then what do you think happens? Sikhs online take their turn. They reply, and not in a gracious way, because they feel they are being insulted and they are correct. They are.

So this may not be a fixation -- but it may rather be the result of a great deal of pain to see the Sikh religion and culture undermined. That is it from me for now.

The other thing that happens is that I, or one of our moderators, come onto the thread and give warnings about proselytizing and undermining Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj. And if that doesn't work, then the member is banned.

Narayanjot

I have visited various forums including atheist ones and to be honest I haven't had that charge thrown at me (yet) There may well be a pre-conception by sikhs that All Muslims want to convert by force or whatever, but I think that takes much away from the discussions and focus, also dwelling on past issues solves nothing, otherwise you remain philosophically stagnated, cos that's general common sense not undermining any insecurities at all

متشکرم

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Narayanjot

I have visited various forums including atheist ones and to be honest I haven't had that charge thrown at me (yet) There may well be a pre-conception by sikhs that All Muslims want to convert by force or whatever, but I think that takes much away from the discussions and focus, also dwelling on past issues solves nothing, otherwise you remain philosophically stagnated, cos that's general common sense not undermining any insecurities at all

متشکرم

Zahim,

Guru Fateh.

Welcome to the forum and I hope we can have a civil and mature discussion keeping in mind the open- mindedness that all humans irrespective of their hue,creed or faith strive for so that they are able to breed goodness within which can be shared with others.

You write about the misconception among the Sikhs about the forceful conversion in Islam.

Well, it seems you being a Shia Muslim ( please correct me if I am wrong) has not paid attention to your only holy book, Quran.

Here are just some of the verses:

Question: Can Muslims force others to accept Islam?


Summary Answer: Muslims are commanded to fight unbelievers until they are either dead, converted to Islam, or in a permanent state of subjugation under Muslim domination. Allowing people of other faiths to live and worship independently of Islamic rule is not an option.


The Qur'an: Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Suras 9 and 5 are the last "revelations" that Muhammad handed down.
Qur'an (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..." Prayer and charity are among the Five Pillars of Islam, as salat and zakat. See below.
Qur'an (9:11) - (Continued from above) "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion" This confirms that Muhammad is speaking of conversion to Islam.
Qur'an (2:193) - "And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion be only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers." The key phrase is to fight until "religion be only for Allah."

TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Forced Conversion

These are just a few. There are many Hadiths that state the same.

The beauty of Sikhi is that it wants all religions to flourish and want people to find spirituality within with the path they have chosen.

All of us as humans are interconnected by THE ONE but unfortunately, religions create the gulfs which are hard or sometimes impossible to bridge because of the insecurities of the religion itself due to its own dogmas and also the false claims of exclusivity and direct connection to " God", " Allah" which is more like a snake oil rub than anything else.

It is playing with the emotions of the weakest of the lot rather than empowering them which is sad and tragic.

I have no idea whether you are aware that the foundation stone at Harmander Sahib was laid by a Muslim and SGGS, our only Guru has many hymns from your fellow men.

So, let's try to find connection as humans with each other, otherwise it becomes the tug of war of egos which the religions tell us to give up.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

also dwelling on past issues solves nothing, otherwise you remain philosophically stagnated, cos that's general common sense not undermining any insecurities at all

Zahim ji

1. How would you characterize the behavior of Muslims toward Sikhs in Taliban controlled areas of Pakistan right now as regards the imposition of the jizya? That is not happening "in the past." It is happening right now.

2. A dawah at some point invariably includes the charge that someone is "insecure" whenever they express indignation.

 

[oracle1]

Muslims do not say Islam is scientific.Science has through the ages has tried to disprove the facts written in the Quran.The knowledge in the Quran could have only come from one source,the one true god.In the Quran, it is said that if a living thing has visible ears it gives birth to live offspring.If it has no visible ears then it lays eggs.Science has trawled the world to disprove this,but has been unsuccesful.
This is why the Quran is the only religious book which is divine.All other scriptures are man written,so follow them blindly or with your eyes open,it is your choice.The one creator has said he is the one to judge our differences and that on the day of judgement any other who you decide to follow other than god,will say that he never asked you to follow him

 

[BhagatSingh]

Muslims do not say Islam is scientific.Science has through the ages has tried to disprove the facts written in the Quran.The knowledge in the Quran could have only come from one source,the one true god.In the Quran, it is said that if a living thing has visible ears it gives birth to live offspring.If it has no visible ears then it lays eggs.Science has trawled the world to disprove this,but has been unsuccesful.
This is why the Quran is the only religious book which is divine.All other scriptures are man written,so follow them blindly or with your eyes open,it is your choice.The one creator has said he is the one to judge our differences and that on the day of judgement any other who you decide to follow other than god,will say that he never asked you to follow him

Science has not disproved fairies, pink unicorns, flying spaghetti monsters... the list goes on..... are those just as divine as the Quran? :hmm: Actually I think they are! Quran is just as divine as a pink unicorn because science has not disproved them.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Muslims do not say Islam is scientific.Science has through the ages has tried to disprove the facts written in the Quran.The knowledge in the Quran could have only come from one source,the one true god.In the Quran, it is said that if a living thing has visible ears it gives birth to live offspring.If it has no visible ears then it lays eggs.Science has trawled the world to disprove this,but has been unsuccesful.
This is why the Quran is the only religious book which is divine.All other scriptures are man written,so follow them blindly or with your eyes open,it is your choice.The one creator has said he is the one to judge our differences and that on the day of judgement any other who you decide to follow other than god,will say that he never asked you to follow him

Oracle,

Guru Fateh.

Could you be kind enough to elaborate what scientific method did you use to come to the conclusion that "This is why the Quran is the only religious book which is divine," or is it one more snake oil rub call on your part?

You further write:

The one creator has said he is the one to judge our differences and that on the day of judgement any other who you decide to follow other than god,will say that he never asked you to follow him

When is the day of the judgement?

By stating,"who you decide to follow other than god" shows that the god you serve is not omnipotent and is some kind of personified mortal deity and who is rather impotent to steer his followers towards himself and instill goodness in them.

Thanks for sharing.

Tejwant Singh

 

[oracle1]

Baghatji,the list you write for science to disprove has not been disproven or even attempted to disprove is because it is in your head and i am sure a decent psychologist can cure you of this.As an intelligent counter argument it certainly is not.
Tejwant ji,even you as a learned scholar will admit that the Quran is the only scripture that is in its original form.Your obsession with snake oil and parts is a tad alarming but demonstrative of grasp of wider principals of circumstantial.
The day of which there is no doubt will happen when the almighty decides and is not knowledge which we can have.The signs for the day of judgement are all around us and learned people are able to see them,do consult a learned person if you know one.
God has created man and jinn with free will,some use this in the right way and others not.Choice,mankinds ultimate downfall when linked to ignorance.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Oracle,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Tejwant ji,even you as a learned scholar will admit that the Quran is the only scripture that is in its original form.Your obsession with snake oil and parts is a tad alarming but demonstrative of grasp of wider principals of circumstantial.

What do you mean by,"the Quran is the only scripture that is in its original form?"

Did Mohammed who was married to a 7 year old child write it himself and when?

How many years after Mohammad was Quran written and by whom?

If one has the dates and the authour/s, then only one can claim what you have done above. Otherwise it is all hogwash.

Thanks for copping out and not responding to the questions in any honest manner. This must be the cornerstone of your faith. We get people like you here everyday who show their insecurities when asked direct questions and are not able to respond.

God has created man and jinn with free will,some use this in the right way and others not.

Your above claim shows that your idol god is not omnipotent. If your deity god is omnipotent then no one has any power to have any kind of will. I thought you knew that.Thanks for clarifying it.

But, I will give you one credit. You are a good parrot, I have no idea about the plumage though.

You can keep your on worshiping your idol god. It does not bother me a bit.

Good luck in your journey.

Tejwant Singh

 

[sikh Engineer]

Is Islam scientific ?

That's a pretty stupid question if you think about it, which I suspect many of you wouldn't have...

If it is not for argument sake, does that make Sikhism, Hinduism or Buddhism automatically scientific ? Obviously not...I do suspect that some of you do look up to Islam in a curious way cool

First of all religion is not a science, its a bit like saying is a box of matches a banana?
Now I suspect some of you might agree with that, while some may still struggle with the albeit simple concept that science, religion, politics and culture are really different things folks, BUT there are some feeble witted people in all religions who profess that their religion is scientific, cuddly, genius, all-singing-all-dancing Santa Claus bla bla bla, thats.

If your perception of Allah (SWT) or God as you call him, is confined to your religion, you might as well carry on asking dumb questions....ad infinitum...

khodaa negahdor

Dear sir,

Is Islam is Scientific this thread is written by me. I would like to say why I posted this this thread, bcoz all muslim have this misconception that science came out of Islam???? that is why i mention in my thread every now and then muslims are connecting islam with science why this is so ???? I guess they dont exist without comparing islam with science. :2:.

what r ur views :welcome:

 

[oracle1]

Tejwant ji,
You obviously dont like muslims and the way you make up facts to try and make a non existant point.If you refer to the famous speech about there are no muslims,christians,jews or hindus,by guru Nanak you will see that all you are doing is harbouring hate in your heart cotrary to your beliefs.Try and educate yourself and try being a better human as you are supposed to be.I feel pity for you that you harbour so much hate in your heart.
If you do noy likre truthful answers then do not ask the question
It must be 12 oclock where you are!

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Tejwant ji,
You obviously dont like muslims and the way you make up facts to try and make a non existant point.If you refer to the famous speech about there are no muslims,christians,jews or hindus,by guru Nanak you will see that all you are doing is harbouring hate in your heart cotrary to your beliefs.Try and educate yourself and try being a better human as you are supposed to be.I feel pity for you that you harbour so much hate in your heart.
If you do noy likre truthful answers then do not ask the question
It must be 12 oclock where you are!

Oracle ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for copping out once again. You make your idol worshipping faith proud. It is laughable to notice that you claim to know a lot more about others than about yourself. FYI, I have lots of Muslim friends who do not agree with your posts and call you a zealot when I shared your posts with them.

It must be 12 oclock where you are!

I am trying to get your sister back from your Muslim cousins who abducted her and did many bad things to her, all night long. Sikhs always waited for 12 o clock when the Muslim rapists, some may be your own ancestors, abducted Hindu girls and women, because 12 PM is the hottest time of the day when the lazy Muslims are asleep after having done what their god told them to do, that is to rape the innocent.

Please let me know when you need me the next time at 12pm. I will do as any Sikh would.

Tejwant Singh

PS: Watch out for your cousin brothers and hide your sisters and your mother otherwise I would have to help you freeing them again after your Muslim cousins have done the same naughty things to them, the ones they did to your sister whom I saved at 12 0 clock.

 

[sikh Engineer]

Muslims do not say Islam is scientific.Science has through the ages has tried to disprove the facts written in the Quran.The knowledge in the Quran could have only come from one source,the one true god.In the Quran, it is said that if a living thing has visible ears it gives birth to live offspring.If it has no visible ears then it lays eggs.Science has trawled the world to disprove this,but has been unsuccesful.
This is why the Quran is the only religious book which is divine.All other scriptures are man written,so follow them blindly or with your eyes open,it is your choice.The one creator has said he is the one to judge our differences and that on the day of judgement any other who you decide to follow other than god,will say that he never asked you to follow him

great mr oracle.
you know in your islam there is no family planning that is biggest blunder according to me, want to know why. you people are producing children without any sense and thus increasing the over all population and when population increasing with out any control thus causing lack of resources , that in return give rise to all kind of adultration in food bcoz when poplution increases demand also increases but supply is less due to limited recources.
this is one fact that shows how scienctic islam is???/ and my freind i got many more facts like that:happy:

for you and all ur muslims friends its my request why you people feel insecure that is why you wanna prove that Islam is scientific so that people from other faiths convert to islam. sometimes i wonder to see islam promotes two things

1-- islam is scientific

2-- try to convert other poeple in islam

why this??? if your religion islam is gods own religion then why u people are after other people for conversion:2:. you just mediate in the name of god if ur religion is good poeple wil come by their own you need not to worry.

 

[sikh Engineer]

Oracle ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for copping out once again. You make your idol worshipping faith proud. It is laughable to notice that you claim to know a lot more about others than about yourself. FYI, I have lots of Muslim friends who do not agree with your posts and call you a zealot when I shared your posts with them.

I am trying to get your sister back from your Muslim cousins who abducted her and did many bad things to her, all night long. Sikhs always waited for 12 o clock when the Muslim rapists, some may be your own ancestors, abducted Hindu girls and women, because 12 PM is the hottest time of the day when the lazy Muslims are asleep after having done what their god told them to do, that is to rape the innocent.

Please let me know when you need me the next time at 12pm. I will do as any Sikh would.

Tejwant Singh

PS: Watch out for your cousin brothers and hide your sisters and your mother otherwise I would have to help you freeing them again after your Muslim cousins have done the same naughty things to them, the ones they did to your sister whom I saved at 12 0 clock.

thanks tejwant

you showed them their level :happy::happy::happy::happy:

 

[spnadmin]

oracle ji

Use a civil tongue! Debate issues not personalities. That is a forum rule.

The conversation needs to return to the topic of the thread. Thanks, Narayanjot Kaur

 

[spnadmin]

Second warning, and this time to any potential poster. Return to the topic. Refrain from focusing on personalities. Even if you were provoked. Discuss the issues. Next infraction by anyone-- the thread will be closed for a cooling off period. Narayanjot Kaur

 

[spnadmin]

The thread has been closed for 12 hours. When it is re-opened, penalties will be administered if taunting continues. Narayanjot Kaur

 

[Zahim Nasir]

also dwelling on past issues solves nothing, otherwise you remain philosophically stagnated, cos that's general common sense not undermining any insecurities at all

Zahim ji

1. How would you characterize the behavior of Muslims toward Sikhs in Taliban controlled areas of Pakistan right now as regards the imposition of the jizya? That is not happening "in the past." It is happening right now.

2. A dawah at some point invariably includes the charge that someone is "insecure" whenever they express indignation.

Afghan friends I have some have said they categorically hate Sikhs, remember Iranis and Pakhtuns are pretty much the same people bar them being Sunni etc...but our culture and language are identical, we celebrate Noruz, but their history has always been hostile to the manipulation mentality of the sikhs, hence their distrust. I even heard they make jokes about sikhs but I don't know any personally.

متشکرم

 

[spnadmin]

Afghan friends I have some have said they categorically hate Sikhs, remember Iranis and Pakhtuns are pretty much the same people bar them being Sunni etc...but our culture and language are identical, we celebrate Noruz, but their history has always been hostile to the manipulation mentality of the sikhs, hence their distrust. I even heard they make jokes about sikhs but I don't know any personally.

متشکرم

Indeed?

 

[kee_jaana_mein_kaun]

Oracle ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for copping out once again. You make your idol worshipping faith proud. It is laughable to notice that you claim to know a lot more about others than about yourself. FYI, I have lots of Muslim friends who do not agree with your posts and call you a zealot when I shared your posts with them.

I am trying to get your sister back from your Muslim cousins who abducted her and did many bad things to her, all night long. Sikhs always waited for 12 o clock when the Muslim rapists, some may be your own ancestors, abducted Hindu girls and women, because 12 PM is the hottest time of the day when the lazy Muslims are asleep after having done what their god told them to do, that is to rape the innocent.

Please let me know when you need me the next time at 12pm. I will do as any Sikh would.

Tejwant Singh

PS: Watch out for your cousin brothers and hide your sisters and your mother otherwise I would have to help you freeing them again after your Muslim cousins have done the same naughty things to them, the ones they did to your sister whom I saved at 12 0 clock.

Sikh Articles - 12 O' clock Joke