Is It Wrong For A Sikh To Marry Someone With A Different Religion?

[gurtej khubbar]

Just a second now, where does Guru Granth Sahib say not to marry a non sikh? Marriage is a personal choice and finding a suitable partner is a common sense question as someone else said above and not a religious one. If u can marry a Muslim and be happy with her and u both can respect each other and grow ur kids up to be good ppl then y not, go for it. It's not easy and we know this but no impossible.

 

[Ishna]

Hi Gurtej ji

My first reply to this thread might help with your question (or maybe not).

 

[Luckysingh]

Discrimination on the basis of skin colour. How is that different to discrimination on the basis of caste?

If Sikhs want to enforce who can and cannot have an anand karaj they need to develop a method of determining whether or not someone is a Sikh. If that method is by amrit sanchar then no other kind of Sikh can have an anand karaj, period, even if you've got Kaur or Singh in your name. I'm not arguing either way, but the same rule should be applied ACROSS THE BOARD and not just to white people as that's unfairly discriminatory.

I don't think that I have given my personal criteria here, I have SIMPLY stated the 'criteria' used by the gurdwaras in the UK at this moment from what I know. I am not making any of this up and neither am I discriminating.

I don't know what would make you think that I am in support of discriminating guidelines and criteria used ??
It's a shame that after so long on this forum, some one may conclude that I am racist, discriminative as well as sexist !

 

[Ishna]

Luckyji my post didn't mention you at all - I was discussing the situation as outlined by yourself.

If that's the state of affairs in UK Gurdwaras, that they will allow non-Sikh Punjabis to marry Sikhs but not non-Sikh Goras to marry Sikhs, well, good luck to them.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the situation because it seems a little ridiculous.

 

[kds1980]

Discrimination on the basis of skin colour. How is that different to discrimination on the basis of caste?

If Sikhs want to enforce who can and cannot have an anand karaj they need to develop a method of determining whether or not someone is a Sikh. If that method is by amrit sanchar then no other kind of Sikh can have an anand karaj, period, even if you've got Kaur or Singh in your name. I'm not arguing either way, but the same rule should be applied ACROSS THE BOARD and not just to white people as that's unfairly discriminatory.

I don't think there is any discrimination on the basis of skin here.All they are asking is just to attach kaur or singh to parties which are marrying in the gurdwara.

Anyway this ruling has much bigger impact on Hindu's /sehajdhari sikhs who used to get married by anand karaj but do not have singh or kaur in their
name.

Here is an interesting case of two hindu's marrying with anand karaj

http://www.indiankanoon.org/doc/415400/

The husband has second marriage woman who had anand karaj with him and when the first wife approached the court his lawyer said that both parties are hindu's so anand karaj is not valid marriage.court did not accept this argument and convicted him for second marriage

 

[Harry Haller]

I don't think it is a matter of discrimination, it is more a matter of what is obvious.

Now, I know all my wifes security passwords, and the other day, I needed to get a balance on her account. I toyed with the idea that I could get one of the girls from the chemist next door to pretend to be her, with all the security passwords supplied by me, but in the end, drove home and did it properly. The fact is, if I had rang, the only thing that would have let me down would have been my male voice. ( I have attempted to sound female, but I just sound like a demented frog), the point is, when you have a turbanned brown skinned male, with a kara, no one is going to question his Sikhi credentials. he looks like a Sikh, that is enough, but if he were a western male, with a turban and a kara, most people would think, why is he having Anand Karaj, he is not a Sikh.

It is all in the observation, and it is no more discrimination than I am discriminated against for not having a female sounding voice!

It is wrong, but that is society for you..........

 

[GSingh1984]

That makes no sense, if he has a turban then he is fine. The obvious thing, is because sikhi has become ethno-religious they allow a punjabi person from a 'sikh' family who has not betrayed the community to also have anand karaj.

However, they justify it they justify it but, you can tell when someone's a sikh or not and if they are discriminating then they must be corrected.

Who cares what society is, or does; sikhi is a direct affront against that manmukh society.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

It is all in the observation, and it is no more discrimination than I am discriminated against for not having a female sounding voice!

It is wrong, but that is society for you..........

I beg to differ... you not having a female sounding voice is a matter of biology. However, I can be Sikh, go to the Gurdwara every week, do lots of seva, but because I am a Gori and do not have Kaur in my name, I should be barred from marriage by Anand Karaj?? Simply because I do not LOOK Punjabi??? By extension you are saying then, that Sikhism is only for Punjabis. And those of us who chose to follow it (ironically because of it's egalitarian ideals - EVERYONE is equal??!) but are not Punjabi, are seen as not Sikh (even though we might attend Gurdwara regularly and live as a Sikh) simply because we are too 'white'???? That, is racism plain and simple... and I thought that was actually against Sikhi!!!

btw I don't have any quams about changing my last name to Kaur, but I thought I could only do that if I do Amrit. And I'd like to do Amrit... however I need clarification on whether I need to cover my head at all times after I do it, or if its ok only at the Gurdwara. Reason being is, in the Canadian military, Sikh men are allowed to wear turbans, but not Sikh women. They are supposed to wear normal head dress... which is a ball cap in work dress. I think a chunni all the time would be cumbersome especially for outdoor sports activities etc, so if I do Amrit I want to wear a dastar.... I just can't while in the military. I looked in rehet, and it only says that turbans are not mandatory for women. It doesn't specify if a woman's head needs to be covered at all times still. If I can change my last name to Kaur now.... without Amrit, I am all for it, if that's all it takes.
Sorry, got a bit off topic there.

edit: And response to the OP: If the other person is a non-Sikh, then you can still get a legal marriage. If the other person chooses to adopt the Sikh faith and become Sikh then I think Anand Karaj should be allowed.

 

[Harry Haller]

Akashaji

If you are correct, then both myself and dear Luckyji are racists and sexists.

Being married to a gori, and having a gora for a stepson pretty much discounts me, and I have read enough of Luckyjis posts to be pretty sure he is on the level.

There is a point being made here, and it seems to be being twisted and turned to suit an agenda, that is also not very Sikh like, so please firstly let me apologise if the tone and content has intimtated what you feel, it certainly was not meant to do that.

To clarify, without humour, or funny stories, most people who have Anand Karaj have liitle or no idea what they are doing, and what they are undertaking. Now where we have two choc coloured folks getting married, no one really cares, they all look pretty, and choc brown, and everything is good, I mean, who really cares whether they understand it or not, the parents are proud, the hall down the road is booked full of booze and meat, everything is good.

However, when you bring someone who is not choc brown into the equation, suddenly, everyone wants to know why a non Sikh is being allowed Anand Karaj, despite the fact that people like yourself know and understand a good deal more than your average 'Sikh',

I have not had Anand Karaj, my wife is an atheist, and I do not consider myself ready for it, to me, it is the 2 way equivilant of taking Amrit.

So, yes it is unfair that non choc coloured people get scrutinised more heavily, yes, it is unfair that questions get asked more about such, however, please also try and remember that the facets and principles of Sikhism that folk like you and I hold so dear, vanish into thin air in most Gurdwaras. They exist as a social club and general meeting place on the whole, as for the people running them, I would not trust them to take my dog for a walk.

I hope I have clarified myself, my own personal thought is that those that come in from outside of Punjab, will be the making of Sikhism in the future, so the future is people like yourself, although my posts can be a bit cryptic, I find nothing but admiration for your faith and general attitude.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

However, when you bring someone who is not choc brown into the equation, suddenly, everyone wants to know why a non Sikh is being allowed Anand Karaj, despite the fact that people like yourself know and understand a good deal more than your average 'Sikh',

This one statement again proves my point (I am not saying that you or Lucky Ji personally are racist, I am saying that this thinking and whoever is thinking it, is racist). This one statement above, ignores the fact that white people CAN and DO become Sikhs!!! If ANYONE who sees a white person getting married in a Gurdwara asks why a 'NON SIKH' is getting married via Anand Karaj, then they are intimating that ALL white people are NOT and could NEVER be Sikhs! They should not automatically come to the conclusion that white people are never Sikhs. Even the tone of how you stated that one sentence, intimates this! Right down to the last part where you stated "despite the fact that people like yourself know and understand a good deal more than your average Sikh" as if to say, I am not a Sikh.... yeah Ok, she understands more than the average Sikh, but she still can not possibly be a Sikh herself, because hey....she is white! Thinking like this makes me feel like I will NEVER be truly accepted by most Punjabi Sikhs, and truly hurts!

 

[spnadmin]

I have been following this conversation. Harry Haller ji has on many posts referred to his wife as more Sikh than the average Sikh. His reasoning is always linked to his wife's disposition of compassion and objectivity toward everyone she meets. His comments are an indictment of hypocrisy among those who flaunt their Sikhism. Frequently, the comparison is an indictment of himself because in Harry ji's opinion he does not rise to the moral level of his wife. It has been clear all along.

Akasha ji Just about every comment Harry has made to explain himself has been an attempt to clear misunderstanding. Please accept his effort as good faith.

Whispering and gossip within any faith congregation about choices of marriage partners is a common pattern. Someone has to assert that he or she is the sharpest knife in the drawer because he or she can see evidence of a mismatch that no one else can see. It has to be ignored. Not racism, nor sexism, it small-mindedness because those are the same people who have something to say about everything and everyone as long as there is an audience to hear it.

How racism or sexism is inferred from Harry ji's statements is difficult to see. He is describing his experiences. Yours may be different.

Let's end this part of the conversation now because it shows no sign of finding a middle ground on its own.

 

[GSingh1984]

OP means open poster? That's me right...
Nope I'm not in a relationship. I'm just doing some research.
I have a gora friend that seems so nice. We both have discussed that we could not be together because he is christian and I'm indian so we both have doubts. We are just friends but I just wanted to ask that questions. Thanks for the answer.

O, I c. Well, if you say you're Indian after the blood of millions, this is my final post in this convo.

Hey what does ethnicity have to do with it? I am a Gori, but I follow the Sikh faith of my own accord. Should I not be allowed Anand Karaj because I am a Gori?

Stand up, no one will for you. If you are Sikh, of course but the generalization is gora is atheist or christian same with Kala. Other brown is muslim or Hindu etc. I'd trust these same two to cause the most ruckus if you weren't.

This one statement again proves my point (I am not saying that you or Lucky Ji personally are racist, I am saying that this thinking and whoever is thinking it, is racist). This one statement above, ignores the fact that white people CAN and DO become Sikhs!!! If ANYONE who sees a white person getting married in a Gurdwara asks why a 'NON SIKH' is getting married via Anand Karaj, then they are intimating that ALL white people are NOT and could NEVER be Sikhs! They should not automatically come to the conclusion that white people are never Sikhs. Even the tone of how you stated that one sentence, intimates this! Right down to the last part where you stated "despite the fact that people like yourself know and understand a good deal more than your average Sikh" as if to say, I am not a Sikh.... yeah Ok, she understands more than the average Sikh, but she still can not possibly be a Sikh herself, because hey....she is white! Thinking like this makes me feel like I will NEVER be truly accepted by most Punjabi Sikhs, and truly hurts!

Not into Punjabi society, which is not Sikh society. The best thing to happen was for western children to have have chance to b just Sikh. Punjabi society is corrupt, you had gold medal dhadis coming to Canada . Getting drunk.

Anyway, I wish you well in your fight to have dastar for women in caf. But, know what you're fighting for.

 

[Ishna]

Not into Punjabi society, which is not Sikh society.

Bingo. But can they be separated? Therein lies the question, one this little gori has been struggling with significantly for years, and might even warrant its very own thread.

 

[GSingh1984]

Bingo. But can they be separated? Therein lies the question, one this little gori has been struggling with significantly for years, and might even warrant its very own thread.

Yea, doing it right now but it involves largely ignoring Punjabi people as well. For example, like I said my dad used to be in a gurudawara comitee and was there to see gold medal winning dhadis his name was (Ill get it in a second) drinking in the 80's.

Or the nabha bibi dhadi orw.e end up having someaffair.

The best thing to happen is to be able to separate from Punjab, but still be Punjabi.

VJKVJF

 

[daljitsingha]

leaflet by anand karaj awareness campaign

 

[daljitsingha]

Sikh should marry Sikh. its not up for debate. period.

 

[Dalvinder Singh Grewal]

Just a second now, where does Guru Granth Sahib say not to marry a non sikh? Marriage is a personal choice and finding a suitable partner is a common sense question as someone else said above and not a religious one. If u can marry a Muslim and be happy with her and u both can respect each other and grow ur kids up to be good ppl then y not, go for it. It's not easy and we know this but no impossible.

There is nothing good or bad since what all happens, happens according to Will of God and God does no wrong. However the people among whom we live in, known as society, sets some rules and to live in that society amicably one has to follow these rules. To protect their interest, the Sikh society has made the rule of not marrying out side the Sikhs. Those who want to give preference to society rules follows; those who do not may break it.

 

[LSD]

marry who the hell you want but a Sikh cannot have anand karaj with a non Sikh>>>period

 

[Harry Haller]

marry who the hell you want but a Sikh cannot have anand karaj with a non Sikh>>>period

do you think you could write with a little less anger,
thank you so much

 

[Original]

marry who the hell you want but a Sikh cannot have anand karaj with a non Sikh>>>period

LSD

Kool n calm wins the race - Sikh is always weary of the "five alive" riders constantly reminding us of our human nature [weaknesses]. In this instance is "kroad" [anger]. Disciplined Sikh exercises self-control in civil society. Rise above mere talk, you have the knowledge and the drive; find the gear. Free yourself from the fetters of social convention and become a "true Sikh" of Nanak's house, where kool n deadly attitude is the motto [chad di kala].

Since all is Waheguru, the undercurrent within all reality, who marries who has socio-cultural connotations acting as KPI's and not religious denominators.

Question, do we want to close doors or open them ? SGGSJ is public property assigned not to one but to the whole of humanity, custody of which is conferred upon Khalsa Panth. Perhaps there can be ways in which mix n match marriages are entertained ?

Just my thoughts -

Good day !