Sikhi Is Sikhi A Religion?

[Harry Haller]

Okay, I should've said "service provider", but the message still stands and is intended to benefit the compliance officers at SPN.

but all the compliance officers at SPN do is enforce the terms and conditions of this site which you agreed to when you signed up, if you have an issue with the terms and conditions, don't post, its that simple, find another site that agrees with your views, I can't see the problem, I would hazard a guess that this is to benefit you in some strange way that only you know.

Conducting that kind of a poll on a site that is in itself a representative body of the survey in question can be seen as an expression of willingness to negotiate what might otherwise be deemed non negotiable [IMHO].

or it could just be a simple survey, which is what it appears to me, are you trying to suppress anyone's opinion that does not agree with yours? what you write is an oxy{censored}, how can something be non negotiable in your humble opinion? it either is, or it isn't, if you feel it isn't then don't be humble about it, don't be twee, come out and say what it is you feel, is that not what truth and honesty is? I would respect you a hell of a lot more if you were more clear about your agenda instead of dancing around it, if you feel that such surveys are a gateway to people doubting what you feel, why not just come out and say it? and then back it up? and then debate it?

I'm simply asking the 25% to come forward and justify [academically] how "Sikhi is definitely not a religion"

no your not, your asking the 25% to come forward, provided they are not me or Tej, how does that work?

It will be interesting to see how the arguments pan out.

It will be hugely interesting if you intend to ban anyone that does not agree with you

In so doing, I've intimated that you and Harry Haller be spared from this onerous task, on account, we have in the past killed much of Sikhi to death already, nothing new is likely to emerge.

Nothing new ever emerges as you never answer questions or back up your statements clearly, if you wish, I have a backlog of 20 odd questions you have never answered, I will happily repost them if you would care to answer, maybe it is yourself that finds answering questions onerous?

I took the liberty to pre-empt this decision and stand corrected should you wish to make a statement to the contrary.

If your asking me not to contribute, how can I make any statement at all, whether it is agreeable or contrary?

Moreover, its an invitation to the Admin Team to speak up - purely for me to reflect on.

no, it is an invitation to the admin team to speak up so that you can then decide what steps you can take to mute them, this forum, the contributors, and have it singing from your song sheet.

Wishing you the very best !

provided we agree with you? what if we don't, do you still wish the very best?

I don't mean to be harsh, but your doing this all wrong, if you sincerely believe that those that post what they post on this forum is wrong, then you need to be debate it, talk about it, and face it, not hide behind veiled threats and subterfuge, for that is the lowliest of the low, as I have said before many many times, I actually like you, I liked you when I met you, hugely, I still do, although I do not think that sentiment is felt mutually, but this just makes you sound bitter and angry, passive aggressive, yet I know you to be a charming man, a charitable man, a good man, perhaps you need to amend your approach so that this charity, charm and goodness are felt from your postings instead of the bitterness and anger

Love

Harry

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Erm....I posted this just a genuine interest in why people might not call Sikhi a religion, or do they think there is some overlap there? I don’t want people arguing over it....

Hmm but may I interject that religion itself (all religions) can be considered a ‘way of life’? And in that sense can’t we agree that it falls into both anyway?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Original ji,

Guru Fateh.

I'm simply asking the 25% to come forward and justify [academically] how "Sikhi is definitely not a religion".

Where else did the 25% come from besides from this minute poll on SPN? Would you be kind enough to offer some other tangible examples of your claim?

It will be interesting to see how the arguments pan out.

OK.

, I've intimated that you and Harry Haller be spared from this onerous task,

No one has the right to speak on someone else's behalf without getting a consent.
It may be an onerous task for you which I sympathise with, but it is not for me. Had you asked me that before taking on your own to speak on my behalf, you would have found the answer.
Why did you take this liberty without any consent from me? I have no idea if you did the same with Harry ji or did you ask for his consent.?
Why wouldn't you want Harry ji and I participate in this wonderful debate? What kind of insecurity do you have against differences of opinions which is a norm, not an exemption?
You, a well-known lawyer by your own admission and I have no reason to doubt that, should know better.

we have in the past killed much of Sikhi to death already and, nothing new is likely to emerge.

Please elaborate your above claim with tangible examples. You, as a lawyer, know that well.

I took the liberty to pre-empt this decision and stand corrected should you wish to make a statement to the contrary.

Well, you should not take this liberty as it is not granted to you by me because you are not even capable of responding to the basic questions asked by me for the reasons only known to you.
Why this insecurity on your part?

Moreover, its an invitation to the Admin Team to speak up - purely for me to reflect on.

What does the above even mean? Care to elaborate? Thanks.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Harry Haller]

Erm....I posted this just a genuine interest in why people might not call Sikhi a religion, or do they think there is some overlap there? I don’t want people arguing over it....

Hmm but may I interject that religion itself (all religions) can be considered a ‘way of life’? And in that sense can’t we agree that it falls into both anyway?

no, hang on, we are not arguing over it yet, we have not got that point, this argument is about whether I am allowed to argue over it, so your an argument behind. However it is the first thread I have ever seen where one has to argue to argue, so feel honored it was yours! Unfortunately we have to establish whether I am able to contribute before we can continue, if you have an issue with this, please take it up with Originalji

 

[Original]

Ishna Ji

I'm sorry you've taken it personally, it wasn't that way intended. Forgive me !

The beauty of life is, "overcoming what we think we can't". If there is one thing that unites us all, it is that we are imperfect and insecure. There would be no impactful change if we didn't have these arguments. I'm not imposing idealistic conformances, but rather, transformations of one's own view n virtues in accordance with their system of belief [Sikh].

Your contribution to Sikhi is beyond measure - you're an asset - stick around !

 

[Original]

Erm....I posted this just a genuine interest in why people might not call Sikhi a religion, or do they think there is some overlap there? I don’t want people arguing over it....

..constructive arguments are good, healthy and creative, in that, they help shape our mental and moral attitudes towards certain things, persons and phenomenon.
Personally speaking, you've done a wonderful thing by separating a subject of Art [religion] and Humanities [philosophy].

Hmm but may I interject

..with pleasure

religion itself (all religions) can be considered a ‘way of life’? And in that sense can’t we agree that it falls into both anyway?

..okay, which of the two are you: navy or army ? why can't we class you a civil servant, instead ?

In post #5 above, I've hammered home the rationale and the importance of categorisation and classifications. Lets look at the ramifications for this kind of logic in a real life scenario:

Detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba are classified as:

1. prisoners of war [POW], or
2. unlawful combatants [T, terrorists]

And, on top of that, they are categorised as:

• Extremely High Risk [cat A]
• High Risk [cat B]
• Standard Risk [cat C]
• No Risk [cat D]

Because of their classifications they'll be treated differently, meaning, POW's will have considerable "rights" under the Geneva Conventions [international treaties], including the right to be released and returned to their native country when the war is over, against those that are classified as T, who if any, seem to have limited rights, and may be held indefinitely without charges.

Question ? why do we go to such extremes in dichotomising the particulars of a thing, person, phenomenon to the very core ?

Polite Advice:
The department responsible for classifying Sikh a Religion should be challenged by the 25% and please if you will, copy me in @wahegurusatnam.kom.punjab

Personal Statement

I love you all, mean no harm - love n live is what I preach, sorry I come across "grumpy", hey wait ? it aren't about Original its about Sikhi - let us rejoin the thread - all welcome !

 

[Dulepe Singh]

I ticked 'religion' in the poll, because Sikhi does fit the definition. However, I also just read this on a blog about Stoicism and I thought one could swap 'Stoicism' for 'Sikhi' and it would be as accurate:

I concur! I am studying stoicism, and similarities with Sikhism are there.

 

[WorldReligions]

I ticked 'religion' in the poll, because Sikhi does fit the definition. However, I also just read this on a blog about Stoicism and I thought one could swap 'Stoicism' for 'Sikhi' and it would be as accurate:

Then is Judaism a philosophy not a religion? They don’t have much information about the afterlife. It’s focused more on the here and now (yes there are kibbulistic jews but that is beyond my knowledge.

 

[WorldReligions]

..constructive arguments are good, healthy and creative, in that, they help shape our mental and moral attitudes towards certain things, persons and phenomenon.
Personally speaking, you've done a wonderful thing by separating a subject of Art [religion] and Humanities [philosophy].


..with pleasure



..okay, which of the two are you: navy or army ? why can't we class you a civil servant, instead ?

In post #5 above, I've hammered home the rationale and the importance of categorisation and classifications. Lets look at the ramifications for this kind of logic in a real life scenario:

Detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba are classified as:

1. prisoners of war [POW], or
2. unlawful combatants [T, terrorists]

And, on top of that, they are categorised as:

• Extremely High Risk [cat A]
• High Risk [cat B]
• Standard Risk [cat C]
• No Risk [cat D]

Because of their classifications they'll be treated differently, meaning, POW's will have considerable "rights" under the Geneva Conventions [international treaties], including the right to be released and returned to their native country when the war is over, against those that are classified as T, who if any, seem to have limited rights, and may be held indefinitely without charges.

Question ? why do we go to such extremes in dichotomising the particulars of a thing, person, phenomenon to the very core ?

Polite Advice:
The department responsible for classifying Sikh a Religion should be challenged by the 25% and please if you will, copy me in @wahegurusatnam.kom.punjab

Personal Statement

I love you all, mean no harm - love n live is what I preach, sorry I come across "grumpy", hey wait ? it aren't about Original its about Sikhi - let us rejoin the thread - all welcome !

What does Guantanamo Bay have anything to do with the question is Sikhism a religion? I’d hope that sikhism has absolutely nothing to do with that horrible place

 

[adian808]

Definitively Sikhism is a religion, a monotheism religion
and i want to inspire myself of this religion to make revive ancient egyptian religion ( netjerism, amonism, atenism, kemitism) who was a monotheism too , in Amon the god which is all other gods, the king of gods or Ptah the cosmic cow who is all the gods or Osiris who is Ptah through Apis and who is also Shiva according to an ancient greek legend or Re who is the holy light or Atoum who is the uncreated and created sun like Mithra
there's one god with many names and avatars
Sikhism is a good model!

 

[adian808]

Erm....I posted this just a genuine interest in why people might not call Sikhi a religion, or do they think there is some overlap there? I don’t want people arguing over it....

Hmm but may I interject that religion itself (all religions) can be considered a ‘way of life’? And in that sense can’t we agree that it falls into both anyway?

the Rightful response !

 

[Ishna]

Then is Judaism a philosophy not a religion? They don’t have much information about the afterlife. It’s focused more on the here and now (yes there are kibbulistic jews but that is beyond my knowledge.

This is a great comparison. There are similarities between Judaism and Sikhi, as well.

 

[Don_Punjab]

From a Indian perspective. Sikhi is Indian and of Hindu Origins.

From a Roman English perspective classification are not necessary to further create division.

#Khatri , Walia, Bedi, Gotri = all is referring to Kshatriyas!!
Okay the slang has changed over thousands of years. Yet our Blood is this same!

A SIKH SHOULD SEE SIKHI AND HINDU AS ONE OTHER WISE ITS AGAINST GURBANI

CHAUPAI SAHIB
SWAIYAA
Raam Raheem Puraan Kuraan
RAM OR RAMA-DAN WALA RAM
HINDU PURAN OR MUSLIM QURAN
aneyk kaahai mat eyk na maanyo.
WE CALL IT EK. YET WE DON'T BELIEVE IT TO BE ONE!

Simrit Shaastar Bed sabhai
WAHEGURU NAM JAAP, OUR WEAPONS..
bahu bhed kahai ham ek na jaanyo.
.......... WE DON'T UNDERSTAND IT AS ONE!

our Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj
In Jaap Ji Sahib Pauri.

:5 sabhnaa jee-aa kaa ik daataa so mai visar naa jaa-ee.

:8 suni-ai Eesar Barmaa Ind

:26 gaavahi eesar bar-maa dayvee sohan sadaa savaaray.

: 4 gur eesar gur gorakh barmaa gur paarbatee maa-ee

Excuse me? GUR MEANING GURU THE TITLE GIVEN BY GURU NANAK DEV JI MAHARAJ HIMSELF?? WHY WOULD ANY SIKH DISRESPECT THIS.
GUR EESAR - SHIVA
GUR GORAKH- VISHNU
BRAHMA
GUR PAARBATEE MAA-EE. - PARVATI MAI!

THIS SOUNDS 100% HINDU TO ME.

IF YOU USE ROMAN CATEGORIZATION. EVERYTHING IS DIVIDED!!

SIKH-E IS Ek
Ek -Om - Kar

Ek Om Kar Karan hai!
A-lug nai hai!
Further the Ek Om Kar has a Partial Om inside Omkar

 

[Ishna]

From a Indian perspective. Sikhi is Indian and of Hindu Origins.

From a Roman English perspective classification are not necessary to further create division.

#Khatri , Walia, Bedi, Gotri = all is referring to Kshatriyas!!
Okay the slang has changed over thousands of years. Yet our Blood is this same!

A SIKH SHOULD SEE SIKHI AND HINDU AS ONE OTHER WISE ITS AGAINST GURBANI

CHAUPAI SAHIB
SWAIYAA
Raam Raheem Puraan Kuraan
RAM OR RAMA-DAN WALA RAM
HINDU PURAN OR MUSLIM QURAN
aneyk kaahai mat eyk na maanyo.
WE CALL IT EK. YET WE DON'T BELIEVE IT TO BE ONE!

Simrit Shaastar Bed sabhai
WAHEGURU NAM JAAP, OUR WEAPONS..
bahu bhed kahai ham ek na jaanyo.
.......... WE DON'T UNDERSTAND IT AS ONE!

our Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj
In Jaap Ji Sahib Pauri.

:5 sabhnaa jee-aa kaa ik daataa so mai visar naa jaa-ee.

:8 suni-ai Eesar Barmaa Ind

:26 gaavahi eesar bar-maa dayvee sohan sadaa savaaray.

: 4 gur eesar gur gorakh barmaa gur paarbatee maa-ee

Excuse me? GUR MEANING GURU THE TITLE GIVEN BY GURU NANAK DEV JI MAHARAJ HIMSELF?? WHY WOULD ANY SIKH DISRESPECT THIS.
GUR EESAR - SHIVA
GUR GORAKH- VISHNU
BRAHMA
GUR PAARBATEE MAA-EE. - PARVATI MAI!

THIS SOUNDS 100% HINDU TO ME.

IF YOU USE ROMAN CATEGORIZATION. EVERYTHING IS DIVIDED!!

SIKH-E IS Ek
Ek -Om - Kar

Ek Om Kar Karan hai!
A-lug nai hai!
Further the Ek Om Kar has a Partial Om inside Omkar

Ji

Please stop insisting Sikhi is a Hindu religion. You've made this point in many threads.

Personally, I believe your assertion is incorrect. But at any rate, you've said it enough times now.

Please heed the warning.

 

[Logical Sikh]

Religion is a western concept.
In indian subcontinent it's called ਧਰਮ
ਧਰਮ is more related to moral duty.

Religion has no translation in Sikh philosophy.

 

[Don_Punjab]

Ji

Please stop insisting Sikhi is a Hindu religion. You've made this point in many threads.

Personally, I believe your assertion is incorrect. But at any rate, you've said it enough times now.

Please heed the warning.

If you personally have a issue's with Pauri's that's confirm this point, you need to take that up within your self inside your heart!

As to why this topic such a trigger point for you!

I didn't write Nitnem, I didn't write the Guru Granth Sahib. Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj has provided certificate headers to certain deities.
Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj has provided incite.

Who are you confuse it?

I personally have tremendous issue's with those that have infused ego and confusion into Sikhism.
THE TEACHINGS OF GURU NANAK DEV MAHARAJ are clear!
Nirbha-o nirvair

When you come across this topic you need to practice this teaching from Nitnem

I know where Sikh come from, why and how GUR SIKHS where created. I know the reason behind this.
My family left behind thousands of acres and cities behind to Islamic Pakistan, because we are Indian! & Proud.

Only a IsI. Pakistan Intelligence services international agent or paid sleeper cell would have such a aggressive stance on this topic. Trying Muscle confusion!

 

[Don_Punjab]

If you personally have a issue's with Pauri's that's confirm this point, you need to take that up within your self inside your heart!

As to why this topic such a trigger point for you!

I didn't write Nitnem, I didn't write the Guru Granth Sahib. Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj has provided certificate headers to certain deities.
Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj has provided incite.

Who are you confuse it?

I personally have tremendous issue's with those that have infused ego and confusion into Sikhism.
THE TEACHINGS OF GURU NANAK DEV MAHARAJ are clear!
Nirbha-o nirvair

When you come across this topic you need to practice this teaching from Nitnem

I know where Sikh come from, why and how GUR SIKHS where created. I know the reason behind this.
My family left behind thousands of acres and cities behind to Islamic Pakistan, because we are Indian! & Proud.

Only a IsI. Pakistan Intelligence services international agent or paid sleeper cell would have such a aggressive stance on this topic. Trying Muscle confusion!

Why Would the Golden Temple's name be Har Mandir Sahib? If we were not Ek with all including Hinduism?

Why would Maharaja Ranjit Singh donate 1000 Kilos of Gold to Kashe Vishwanath Mandir. They donated 100 kilos to Har Mandir Sahib.

I see this hard stance against 1 (ek) India in Canada as well. I'm here to break it!

Raj Kharega Khalsa!
I want Sikhs to hold and take control of all of India. All of Hinduism. Then all of Pakistan and Islam. Then all of Christianity and Buddhism. Then all African nations and beyond!
How Can Khalsa Raj become world wide with such Limited narrow thinking!

Those that have a issue with this will have to leave Khalsa and Hinduism. Where else is there to go? Islam

 

[Ishna]

Guru Granth Sahib indeed speaks for itself.

As does history.

You are free to believe whatever you wish.

 

[gjsingh]

Christianity was started by Jews and Greeks, and their holy book used certain Jewish and Greek conceptual frameworks and terminology, but nobody would say Christianity and Judaism are the same.

Likewise, Sikhism's founders employed certain idiomatic expressions and and assumed familiarity with certain concepts from Hinduism and Islam, but the meanings put into them are completely divergent and original.

Moreover, SGGS does not require, uphold or mandate any of the holy books from Hinduism or Islam in the manner that Christianity includes the Old Testament from the Jews.

Therefore, because Christianity and Judaism are not the same, then even more so are Sikhism and Hinduism not the same. This is emphasized by the stark philosophical difference laid out in Sidh Gosti and other places.

 

[gjsingh]

Guru Nanak said, "There is no Hindu, there is no Muslim." Reasoning inductively, we can conclude that his disciples are neither Hindu nor Muslim.