Sikhism Is There A Supreme Being / God / Waheguru Or Not?

[Original]

BTW , has anyone of you tried attempting a meditation on waheguru mantar ?
Steps :
1) Wake up very early in morning . Its actually last quarter of night (3 am - 6 am)
2) Take a bath and then sip a cup of tea if you feel drowsy.
3) Sit in crossed leg position (yoga pose) , close eyes and chant "waheguru ... waheguru ... waheguru ... waheguru ..............."
Do this for like atleast 5 minutes. And here's the key : As you chant 'waheguru' , for each repetition of this divine name of god , try to hear it as deeply as possible with as much focus as possible . Your mind will falter here and there . Focusing mind is tough . But if you keep at it daily, guru ji will bless you.

So like have any of you tried this for atleast even a week or something ?
I am just asking , not passing any judgement .

Good morning Seeker 2013,

I often say and indeed have a good reason for saying it, that, with age comes maturity, with maturity comes wisdom and with wisdom comes meditation. What I mean by this is that there comes a time when everything begins to stand on all fours. Meditating with eyes closed and chanting Gur mantra to connect with the creator at young age is, in my view, an outright denial to what is already available and is for the taking in the form of reality [creation]. You've got to break few hearts, experience few dear Johns, ride the creator's roller-coaster of life and then come home to roost [meditate]. Harbouring as it were, or indeed self-exiting from the mix of homogenous social activity on account religious conformance, nothing could be further from the truth. What good is a God found in isolation, away from social life and has set parameters of do's and don'ts, definitely not Waheguru. Waheguru is the first and the last cause of creation, go and play amongst His creation to get an idea of Him, meditation will accrue as a result.

Nanak said to the world, 'yes I accept all philosophies and traditions built around truth [sat], but a mere belief is insufficient unless it's lived'. In other words, sight confirms touch, touch confirms illusion [maya]. That is to say, go out into the world and find out for yourself what is real and unreal. I'm not suggesting you abandon nit nem, I'm conferring upon you an obligation with which you must first discharge, that is, love n live to optimise your endeavours in contemplation.

Sikhism is beautiful when you begin to live it and yes, from a disciplinary perspective it's good to meditate. It keeps the mind healthy and sharp, and indeed, if Waheguru bestows His grace, one experiences the metaphysical truths. Equally, my case in point is, don't close your eyes on the physical in lieu of the metaphysical. You'll miss the plot.

May God bless you and fulfil your inner most desires.

Take care !

 

[Seeker2013]

Hi Original ji ,
one thing I like about this forum is that we have a diverse and tolerated diversity of views .
One user refrains me from doing anything anti-SRM and another one (you) is like "Dude , enjoy your youth for its god-given gift too . Nanak's god will find you later"

I am not condemning your world view , infact a part of me desperately wants that as well .
As I grew up in the 90's bombay (oh sorry .. its mumbai) , I was bombarded by the media with this image of "handsome man" , you know how he's clean shaven, muscular , well-dressed with a cool hairstyle .
As I grew up and realized I was attracted to men, I felt like I wanted to be like that stud hunk guy who I feel attracted to . But the jooda on top of my head had some other plan for me.
As I entered college , back in 2005, I began to look at all these new handsome young lads all around me. I wasn't attracted to sardars (with some rare exceptions) .

The height of procrastination is I still have jooda on top of my head
As I goofed up on my academics and career (its a long long story ) , my guru came to my rescue . I tell you the hukamnamas that I got last year may - june was something so surreal !
I felt god himself created the causes that help me land me in the job , my DREAM JOB !
He took pity on me when I was agnostic / atheist. It turned me back into a sikh again , a believer .
After that, he helped me survive the new workplace, got me an appraisal of 40% .

And after all, shameless me still desires all you said above , namely , living my life in my own terms and that would include , guess what !, cutting my kesh , getting a cool hairstyle, hitting the gym primarily because vanity , I wanna look good , hot , get laid with lots of sexy dudes and then hopefully , I pray, return to guru sahib (hopefully as an amritdhari) a few years down the line !
Yupp, thats how my mind conspires and plans .

The dominant part of me however loathes this idea .

Dominant : "How could you even think like this ! The guru who helped you while you were helpless, he got you a job, he helped you survive the job, he gave you appraisal , how could you just cut your hair ? its so mean and selfish . What if guru sahib rejects you for this sacrilege ? You ungrateful wretch !"

The wannabe-hunk in me : "I think we can come back after a few years. You cut your hair, hit the gym , make a hot physique , wear best clothes, install a gay dating app, get laid lots. Come after few years. Oh and in the meantime, who said you can't go to gurudwara and read from SGGS and do paath and do sewa. you're still connected aren't you . Cites 'tere bharose pyaare main laad ladaya' shabad "

Dominant : "What if guru sahib sees through this ?! I am sure he will. what if he rejects me and doesn't help me again"

this is how 2 parts of my mind keep conversing .

sorry for the length post though .

I am stuck between these 2 frame of minds . The manmukh and the gurmukh.

 

[Seeker2013]

TBH, if I were straight , and since its more socially acceptable and therefore a silent encouragement , I might as well have not been so shy of all these outside world stuff , esp the sexual one.
Who knows I might as well have had multiple flings by now. But being gay constricts my life, or is it my mindset that constricts it . The jury of my mind is divided on this one.
Another jury member is saying "Perhaps , being gay is actually a blessing in disguise. Heck , your soul might have asked for it from waheguru before coming on this planet, you know just so you could be chastised a bit"

 

[Original]

...there's a saying, it goes something like this, 'it's better to have played and lost than never to have played at all'. Get it out of your system and just do it otherwise you'll be a moaner and a groaner for the rest of your life. God lives in both, the naughty and the nice, common denominator being courage.

Sikhism seeks to promote long term happiness over short-lived pleasures. Take your pick !

 

[Seeker2013]

...there's a saying, it goes something like this, 'it's better to have played and lost than never to have played at all'. Get it out of your system and just do it otherwise you'll be a moaner and a groaner for the rest of your life. God lives in both, the naughty and the nice, common denominator being courage.

Sikhism seeks to promote long term happiness over short-lived pleasures. Take your pick !

but sikhism considers sexual desire as short term pleasure , isn't it ? and spiritual goal as long term ?

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

but sikhism considers sexual desire as short term pleasure , isn't it ? and spiritual goal as long term ?

There is a difference between sexual desire though, and actual sharing of love on a deep level with your spouse. Its not done for physical pleasure so much at that point but to connect on multiple levels, physical, emotional, spiritual etc and is as close as we can get to experiencing actual merging with another being. The act of sex can be a spiritual experience in it's own right, but only when done for the right reasons. When done for purely physical pleasure, it's true meaning is lost and the 'gift' ends up being abused - this is why its outright discouraged outside of marriage. Because there is an energy transfer / sharing there beyond a physical level.

 

[Seeker2013]

There is a difference between sexual desire though, and actual sharing of love on a deep level with your spouse. Its not done for physical pleasure so much at that point but to connect on multiple levels, physical, emotional, spiritual etc and is as close as we can get to experiencing actual merging with another being. The act of sex can be a spiritual experience in it's own right, but only when done for the right reasons. When done for purely physical pleasure, it's true meaning is lost and the 'gift' ends up being abused - this is why its outright discouraged outside of marriage. Because there is an energy transfer / sharing there beyond a physical level.

I am scared of my own mind ! Its the biggest demon !

 

[Dalvinder Singh Grewal]

To understand the concept of manmukh n gurmukh we need to first, establish whether there is a Supreme Being or not ?

Take care -

se akhdian beann jina disandro man piri. It means 'Those eye are different who have seen God." Everyone cannot see Him. Those who develop such eyes can certainly see Him. There is no denying the fact. This may be called 'inner eye', 'third eye' .. or the like. One has to develop this through deep meditation on Him.

 

[Harry Haller]

There is a difference between sexual desire though, and actual sharing of love on a deep level with your spouse. Its not done for physical pleasure so much at that point but to connect on multiple levels, physical, emotional, spiritual etc and is as close as we can get to experiencing actual merging with another being. The act of sex can be a spiritual experience in it's own right, but only when done for the right reasons. When done for purely physical pleasure, it's true meaning is lost and the 'gift' ends up being abused - this is why its outright discouraged outside of marriage. Because there is an energy transfer / sharing there beyond a physical level.

Welcome back, good to see you safe and sound.

Some questions, have you come to this conclusion through living, or through God?
Should we encourage or discourage experience over theory as a means of learning?

we may need to open another thread as this is a question that has been on my mind

 

[Original]

Good morning Everyone [UK 06:32]

It's Monday, start of a yet another "exciting" week. For some, its the same old thing on a different day, but for many, it is special. I'm one of those who like to think it special, case in point being, you either moan or groan, or get on with it. Generally speaking, Sikhs don't doom n gloom, but rather, "chuk da fattah" outlook, almost all the time. And as a result, coined a term 'chardi kala' for that very reason, meaning, ascending spirit, more commonly referred to as, optimism. This is contrary to Stoic philosophy [self alienation or detachment from society], which is seemingly cynical and has a pessimistic ring to it.

I am scared of my own mind ! Its the biggest demon !

..nonsense ! choose your words carefully young man, there is no such thing as a demon. It is you and your outlook. Look at what Guru Ji says about the mind, "man tu jyot saroop ha apna mool pehchan" [meaning, mind you too emerge from the same light of eternity, cotton on]. Besides, look at all those who'd befriended the mind to give us the marvels of science and technology. You n me are connected across seven seas because some people had put their mind to good use. So should you, and if anything, your pranks are youthful exuberances - don't worry, like all things they too will come to pass.

not done for physical pleasure so much at that point but to connect on multiple levels, physical, emotional, spiritual etc and is as close as we can get to experiencing actual merging with another being.

..beautifully put Harkiran ! Sign of spiritual maturity - thank you !

se akhdian beann jina disandro man piri

..beautiful !

One has to develop this through deep meditation on Him.

Sir, I'm a little sceptical ? would it suffice to suggest that understanding of Him precedes meditation and the process is organically, one of supplanting ? That is to say, understanding becomes meditation.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Welcome back, good to see you safe and sound.

Some questions, have you come to this conclusion through living, or through God?
Should we encourage or discourage experience over theory as a means of learning?

we may need to open another thread as this is a question that has been on my mind

Entirely subjective of course to the one who experiences it. But you will easily find MANY people who concur that intimate relations CAN reach a level that far surpasses the physical. Its mentioned in many spiritual paths and philosophies all over the world and all through time. There must be something to it. So I have come to this conclusion through a combination of experience, history, theology in general etc. I only mentioned that in Sikhi, why it's discouraged outside of marriage is that unbridled physical pleasure without the other aspects (emotional, spiritual etc) can only lead to abuse (kaam, lust) and you will be missing out on the deeper aspects of it. In other words, the only one who you will be hurting by acting on lust and / or outside of marriage with someone you love, is yourself.

 

[Sikhilove]

Mool Mantar Is the answer to this threads question. The entire Gurbani is an expansion of Mool Mantar.

The entire universe is a projection of Him- formed from His Heart and easily absorbed back into Him. We are created from Love and His desire to share his discovery of Himself (Sat) with another.

 

[Dalvinder Singh Grewal]

Good morning Everyone [UK 06:32]

It's Monday, start of a yet another "exciting" week. For some, its the same old thing on a different day, but for many, it is special. I'm one of those who like to think it special, case in point being, you either moan or groan, or get on with it. Generally speaking, Sikhs don't doom n gloom, but rather, "chuk da fattah" outlook, almost all the time. And as a result, coined a term 'chardi kala' for that very reason, meaning, ascending spirit, more commonly referred to as, optimism. This is contrary to Stoic philosophy [self alienation or detachment from society], which is seemingly cynical and has a pessimistic ring to it.

..nonsense ! choose your words carefully young man, there is no such thing as a demon. It is you and your outlook. Look at what Guru Ji says about the mind, "man tu jyot saroop ha apna mool pehchan" [meaning, mind you too emerge from the same light of eternity, cotton on]. Besides, look at all those who'd befriended the mind to give us the marvels of science and technology. You n me are connected across seven seas because some people had put their mind to good use. So should you, and if anything, your pranks are youthful exuberances - don't worry, like all things they too will come to pass.

..beautifully put Harkiran ! Sign of spiritual maturity - thank you !

..beautiful !

Sir, I'm a little sceptical ? would it suffice to suggest that understanding of Him precedes meditation and the process is organically, one of supplanting ? That is to say, understanding becomes meditation.

Various stages have been given in Japuji i.e., performing dharma, service to society (dharam khand), knowing him, realsiing Him and self (gyan khand), meditating on him (saram khand), attaining His blessings (karam khand), becoming like Him, realm of truth; (sachkhand).

 

[Original]

Various stages have been given in Japuji i.e., performing dharma, service to society (dharam khand), knowing him, realsiing Him and self (gyan khand), meditating on him (saram khand), attaining His blessings (karam khand), becoming like Him, realm of truth; (sachkhand).

Sir,

Just an iota of Nanak's wisdom to the westerns would be like sight to the blind, but no, cross-cultures must take precedence and exert their influence on society to give it the dominant ideology [capitalism] shape favoured by evolution. The achievements of the ancient Indians [Indus valley] in terms of social organisation and philosophical development are, but very imperfectly known to the English speaking nations and remains pretty much the same till today. There was once, a small body of scholars living a retired life in solitude, who were well acquainted with the subject of ancient philosophy, but sadly, lacked conventional modes of expression to popularise and make known to the world, their inner thought. That as a result, allowed the westerns wannabe advocates of Indian thought to fill the gap and translate it in the only medium available, English; cash-value of which was lost in transition and forever, modern scholars are crisscrossing on debris leftover to rationalise and shape it in what is otherwise academia. Religious thought is far removed from the ordinary debates of wannabe realists and the academians. The Europeans in a reasonably given proximity were probably still hunting-gathering as a means to survival when the contemplative Indians were entertaining abstruse items of fruitful thinking. Classic example of which, "the rough red cow eats green grass and gives white milk" said the mind of the Indian poet, and "the sparkling waters of all rivers flow into one ocean without ever filling it" wondered the Indian philosopher. The Indians were and still are, to an extent, the children of nature and every natural phenomenon excites them so much that they call it Waheguru.

Your text above is of phenomenal magnitude, but of little consequence to the multicultural Sikh living to become what he is not and forgetting to live what he was - the first ape to walk n talk on God's green Earth.

Good day Sir !

 

[Dalvinder Singh Grewal]

Dear original,
The difference appears to be in perception and practice. Guru Nanak has taught an ideology which needs total commitment and dedication through practice. Mere academic discussion would not do. One has to jump into water to learn swimming. Please initiate with practice say start living truth and you will find a change; start concentration on Him in quiet hours and you will find a change; start serving the poor and you will find a change; start seeing the nature as one; all equal and no duality you will find a change. Problem comes when you want every thing served on plate, and you do not get that. Well this is the difference which I meant. Don't sit and watch at the bank; jump in and realise. It is not to counter you but to ask you to try and see for yourself.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Dear original,
The difference appears to be in perception and practice.

Dalvinder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Well put. No one could have said it better. It is easy to cast stones at others sine ratione-without basis, as some try to do here almost daily and yet call themselves Sikhs.

It is a shame that these people ignore your well thought words above.

 

[Ishna]

Dear original,
The difference appears to be in perception and practice. Guru Nanak has taught an ideology which needs total commitment and dedication through practice. Mere academic discussion would not do. One has to jump into water to learn swimming. Please initiate with practice say start living truth and you will find a change; start concentration on Him in quiet hours and you will find a change; start serving the poor and you will find a change; start seeing the nature as one; all equal and no duality you will find a change. Problem comes when you want every thing served on plate, and you do not get that. Well this is the difference which I meant. Don't sit and watch at the bank; jump in and realise. It is not to counter you but to ask you to try and see for yourself.

This post belongs in a hall of fame somewhere. 10/10.

 

[Ishna]

Sir,

Just an iota of Nanak's wisdom to the westerns would be like sight to the blind, but no, cross-cultures must take precedence and exert their influence on society to give it the dominant ideology [capitalism] shape favoured by evolution. The achievements of the ancient Indians [Indus valley] in terms of social organisation and philosophical development are, but very imperfectly known to the English speaking nations and remains pretty much the same till today. There was once, a small body of scholars living a retired life in solitude, who were well acquainted with the subject of ancient philosophy, but sadly, lacked conventional modes of expression to popularise and make known to the world, their inner thought. That as a result, allowed the westerns wannabe advocates of Indian thought to fill the gap and translate it in the only medium available, English; cash-value of which was lost in transition and forever, modern scholars are crisscrossing on debris leftover to rationalise and shape it in what is otherwise academia. Religious thought is far removed from the ordinary debates of wannabe realists and the academians. The Europeans in a reasonably given proximity were probably still hunting-gathering as a means to survival when the contemplative Indians were entertaining abstruse items of fruitful thinking. Classic example of which, "the rough red cow eats green grass and gives white milk" said the mind of the Indian poet, and "the sparkling waters of all rivers flow into one ocean without ever filling it" wondered the Indian philosopher. The Indians were and still are, to an extent, the children of nature and every natural phenomenon excites them so much that they call it Waheguru.

Your text above is of phenomenal magnitude, but of little consequence to the multicultural Sikh living to become what he is not and forgetting to live what he was - the first ape to walk n talk on God's green Earth.

Good day Sir !

By "ancient Indians" do you mean the indigenous population on the area we now call India/Pakistan, or the Indo-European invaders who make up the largest population of "desis" in India?

The rest of your post makes the non-desi people on SPN feel the warm fuzzies. Nice one, bro!

 

[Tejwant Singh]

The rest of your post makes the non-desi people on SPN feel the warm fuzzies. Nice one, bro!

I think this was the whole point. You bloody Western Aryans, some of you may have a darker hue, can not even fathom the Universal Message of Guru Nanak.

Please try to grasp the notion, what Universal Message means.

 

[Original]

Dear Mr Grewal

The rationale behind my email [post #34] was to effect at least three important aspects:

1. The wisdom of the east [Sikhism spiritualism] is best understood and realised through the practice of belief and not through academia.
2. Whether English as a medium could be justified in interpreting the scriptures of civilisations that predates its own development ?
3. Much is lost by way of interpretation and transliteration.

Otherwise, please consider me your fan because I quite often enjoy your write-ups !

Thank you