Don't you worry about me dear. I know exactly where I am going. Can you follow? That is the real question.
akaalpurakh ji
Yes -- I have a theory about where you are headed. And as I have said previously -- we have been down that road before.
I would like to return to 3 things you have said where common sense are not aligned with the facts.
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1. You say that
The term Wah-e-Guru does not appear in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib (SGGS). I repeat, IT DOES NOT OCCUR IN THE GRANTH SAHIB EVEN ONCE!! Its current use as a generic name for the Supreme Lord is a recent phenomenon and has no precedence in the SGGS. (quoted material)
I next pointed out to you that both Bhagat Gayanand and Bhai Gurdas have used the term. In the transliterated version we can see it is in just this one example (There are several others in this thread):
ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahi jeeo ||
Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o.
You then reply that you have no need of transliterations.
You say: "This is not correct; most of us here can read SGGS in Gurbani. At any rate, I see no point in this argument, for I see no ambiguity with regards to the name in the SGGS. There are countless instances in the SGGS wherein the actual names of the Supreme Lord, such as 'Gopal, Ram, Hari, Mohan, Thakur (generic but specifically referring to Krishna)' etc., are mentioned. I really don't need a Thind 'who has authored more than one book' to sort this out for me. Nor, indeed should you." (quoted material)
Now please tell me what this says! In Gurmukhi! Since you don't need transliterations! ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ
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2. My next concern is based in amazement. Let's go back to your statement as follows:
"I really don't need a Thind 'who has authored more than one book' to sort this out for me. Nor, indeed should you."
In Sikhi - seva is a pre-eminent obligation. And in transliterating the words of the Gurus, Professor Thind is a sevadhar both to the panth and to ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ He is making the Shabad Guru accessible to a host of Punjabi speakers who cannot read Gurmukhi but can connect their phonetic understanding to the Gurus' meaning. Professor Thind devised fonts, transliterations, shabads for printing, and we reap the fruit of his deep linguistic knowledge. He never took a cent for his work. His wife and children continue his legacy.
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3. Guru and Gopal: What is there to say about that?
Sanskrit more than even Punjabi is a language in which meaning is contextualized. So the meaning of any word depends on the context of use. Three major contexts: poetic, liturgical, ordinary language. That is why the major dictionaries give so many meanings, and that is why translators rely on them for contextual applications. This is basic stuff.
3.a The translation of Guru from the Monier Williams Dictionary. Which choice makes sense? In a liturgical or a poetic context? The one in bold red font...a spiritual parent or preceptor...makes more sense than heavy in the stomach, or "heavy" as you claim when you analyze the word "guru."
Guru गुरु
(H1)
गुरु[SIZE=-1] [p= [URL="http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/monier/serveimg.pl?file=/scans/MWScan/MWScanjpg/mw0359-gupta.jpg"]359[/URL],2][/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [L=65987][/SIZE]
mf(
वी)
n. ([SIZE=-1]
cf.[/SIZE]
गिर्/इ ; [SIZE=-1]
comp.[/SIZE]
ग्/अरीयस् , once
°यस्-तर ,
गुरु-तर , superl.
गरिष्ठ ,
गुरुतम » [SIZE=-1]ss.vv.[/SIZE]) heavy , weighty (opposed to
लघ्/उ) [SIZE=-1]
RV. i , 39 , 3 and iv , 5 , 6[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
AV. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] ([SIZE=-1]
g.[/SIZE]
शौण्डा*दि [SIZE=-1]
Gan2ar. 101[/SIZE]) [SIZE=-1] [L=65988][/SIZE] heavy in the stomach (food) , difficult to digest [SIZE=-1]
MBh. i , 3334[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
Sus3r. [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [L=65989][/SIZE] great , large , extended , long [SIZE=-1]
Ya1jn5. ??[/SIZE] (
» -क्रतु) [SIZE=-1]
Bhartr2. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [L=65990][/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
Pra1t. [/SIZE] (a vowel long both by nature and by position is called
गरीयस् [SIZE=-1]
RPra1t. xviii , 20[/SIZE]) [SIZE=-1]
Pa1n2. 1-4 , 11 and 12[/SIZE] (in prosody) long by nature or position (a vowel) [SIZE=-1] [L=65991][/SIZE] high in degree , vehement , violent , excessive , difficult , hard [SIZE=-1]
RV. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
MBh. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [L=65992][/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
Megh. 80[/SIZE] grievous [SIZE=-1] [L=65993][/SIZE] important , serious , momentous [SIZE=-1]
MBh. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [L=65994][/SIZE] valuable , highly prized [SIZE=-1]
Ya1jn5. ?? ii , 30[/SIZE]
गुरु = गरीयस्) [SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] ( [SIZE=-1] [L=65995][/SIZE] haughty , proud (speech) [SIZE=-1]
Pan5cat. [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [L=65996][/SIZE] venerable , respectable (H1B)
गुरु[SIZE=-1] [L=65997][/SIZE]
m. any venerable or respectable person (father , mother , or any relative older than one's self) [SIZE=-1]
Gobh. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
S3a1n3khGr2. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
Mn. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] (H1B
)गुरु[SIZE=-1] [L=65998][/SIZE] m. a spiritual parent or preceptor (from whom a youth receives the initiatory मन्त्र or prayer , who instructs him in the शास्त्रs and conducts the necessary ceremonies up to that of investiture which is performed by the आचार्य [SIZE=-1]Ya1jn5. ?? i ,[/SIZE] 34) RPra1t. A1s3vGr2. Pa1rGr2. Mn. &c (H1B) गुरु [L=65999] m. the chief of (gen. or in comp.) Ca1n2. Ragh. ii , 68 (H1B) गुरु [L=66000] m. (with शाक्तs) author of a मन्त्र (H1B) गुरु [L=66001] m. " preceptor of the gods " , बृहस्पति Mn. xi (H1B) गुरु [L=66002] m. (hence) the planet Jupiter Jyot. VarBr2S. Bhartr2. &c (H1B) गुरु [L=66003] m. " पाण्डु-teacher " , द्रोण L. (H1B) गुरु [L=66004] m. प्रभा-कर (celebrated teacher of the मीमांसा , usually mentioned with कुमारिल) SS3am2kar. vi , 50 ; xv , 157 (H1B) गुरु [L=66005] m. (=धर्म) " venerable " , the 9th astrological mansion VarBr2S. i ,
I hope no one chooses the planet Jupiter just to be clever. And it is wrong to pick the meaning that is going to favor a personal theory you are about to spring on us!
3.b. Gopal, from the Cologne Digital Sanskrit Dictionary. the Sanskrit word to search on is Gopa
gopa m. (= %{-pA4} s.v. %{go4}) a cowherd , herdsman , milkman (considered as a man of mixed caste Para1s3.) Mn. viii MBh. (ifc. f. %{A} , i , 3213) Hariv. &c. ; a protector , guardian RV. x , 61 , 10 Ta1n2d2yaBr. Ka1tyS3r. MBh. ; the superintendent of several villages , head of a district L. ; a king L. ; `" chief herdsman "' , Kr2ishn2a MBh. ii , 1438 ; a particular class of plants BhP. xii , 8 , 21 ; = %{-rasa} L. ; N. of a Gandharva (cf. %{go-pati}) R. ii , 91 , 44 ; of a Buddh. Arhat W. ;
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The translation that I favor is the one that is consistent with the Shabad itself. ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ is our protector, our guardian, the one who herds us to safety. Akaal is the Nourisher and Supporter is referred to with the name Gopal, and by analogy to Krishna.
And that too is the meaning of Sant Ravidas when he says.
ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਸੁਰਤਰ ਚਿੰਤਾਮਨਿ ਕਾਮਧੇਨੁ ਬਸਿ ਜਾ ਕੇ ॥
sukh saagar surathar chinthaaman kaamadhhaen bas jaa kae ||
He is the ocean of peace; the miraculous tree of life, the wish-fulfilling jewel, and the Kaamadhayna, the cow which fulfills all desires, all are in His power.
When one part of Gurbani echos other parts in the way words are used, that is how you know the meaning.
