Is Western Culture Bringing About Degeneration In Sikhism?

[Sinister]

that does sound right

involuntary altruism ....hmmm

 

[Sinister]

<<opinions galore

may i kindly ask where and on what? >>

free spirit...

the philosophy espoused by her is unable to distinguish between free spirit/soul (if you may call it) and mind.

and in my understanding and belief( experience) both are different

yea i understand why someone of faith would diverge here. (well its pretty obvious why i wouldnt):hmm:

 

[Sinister]

do you agree with what she says on voluntary (conscious) altruism?

i think there might be something wrong with that as well

 

[Archived_Member_19]

as jasleen ji pointed out...there is a phase of Ayn Rand everyone passes through...and outgrows..

 

[Archived_Member_19]

well

her point on voluntary altruism is valid to some extent

and mind is what is embroiled in maya ~ gain, profit

so i am surprised that while trying to disapprove all that, her own logic leaves space for the questiona nd situation i slipped in.

it was an "aha" moment for me while reading her "Romantic Manifesto"

i left te book halfway

 

[Archived_Member_19]

gggg

i am sleepy

 

[Sinister]

well i dont really like this woman ... im trying to stay away from her...but am stumped

 

[Archived_Member_19]

do read her life story...you will figure out why she is so bitter

 

[Sinister]

any book recomendations? or biographies?

 

[Sinister]

I am currently (well... when not working) reading

Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand by Leonard Peikoff

i know of one critic Mr Wittgenstein and some Logical Positivists who criticize her works (im going to have to take a look at those as well...sometime down the road)

 

[Archived_Member_19]

"the Ayn Rand Cult"

"The Passion of Ayn Rand"

i haven't read the first one in toto..it was to vitrolic for my taste..

had gleaned over most of second...a balanced book

 

[Archived_Member_19]

read her novel "we the living"

it is almost an autobiography ~ almost

 

[Sinister]

thankyou

 

[Archived_Member_19]

innit funny??

we are discussing Ayn Rand in Gurmat Vichaar..

wow !!

 

[Sinister]

:rofl!!:

LOL

i know

but if an anti-sikh ever existed ... it is this woman. I have been reading her stuff and almost everything she says is the complete opposite of sikhi

which is why i veiw her as sikhi's greatest threat.

kind of ties in with the whole "westernization" of sikhi and is sikhi under threat from the west

well ya
and Ayn Rand must be a crusader


cheers

to much randian thought for tonight

 

[Archived_Member_19]

there have been many

neitszche (sic) is anti everything

plato to quite some extent

 

[kds1980]

this is a cop-out. a pathetic excuse used by weak willed sikhs who just want an excuse to cut off their kes. it's simply untrue. the vast majority of turbaned sikhs in the US enjoy a normal life. it's only a handful of very highly publicized incidents which makes people in india think that americans hate turbans.

O.K. JAsleen lets continue our discussion

I disagree that there is no racism.Recently I was discussing This issue with my uncle and he too is so much scared about his son if he chooses to move to U.S.A.Please remember without fire there is no smoke.As far fit in arguement is concerned then apart from north india turbaned sikhs have to fit in society everywhere but still cases of sikhs moving to south india or east india and cutting there hair is rare.I am sure there must be some reason for sikhs to cut there hair after moving to u.s.a or europe.

the fact of the matter is that young guys want to look like bollywood heroes and bhangra stars. it's not "western culture" that's causing problems among sikhs, it's bollywood, the indian media, and the hinduization of india.

First let me define you western culture in indian sense.In india a western culture mean's
The culture of Dating,clubbing , premarital sex,girl's wearing exposing clothes etc.
and this culture has spread and spreading at fast rate and in this culture there is hardly any place for religious symbols.So modern western cuture is the main reason for sikhs abandoning turban.also hindu's too are facing this problem very much and there youth's are also getting away from religion.

As far as bollywood is concerned they too make fun of all the indian traditions and show 's heroes in typical western clothes

 

[kds1980]

ask them what harassment or abuse they suffered to make them cut their hair.

i bet they'll say they just wanted to "fit in", or they thought they'd get a job easier.

trust me, all of my turban wearing friends have VERY good jobs at high-tech and financial institutions, as well as government jobs, while the cut surds i know of are usually working in gas stations and liquor stores and driving taxis.

it's just an excuse.

By writing this you have proved my point which i said in another thread that it is very difficuilt for poor sikhs to wear turban.The main factor is that the educated intellectual world is entirly different from grond level world.The people who are very educated and doing high tech job's are generally financially sound .There friend circle is also educated.
They can easily sue their employer if they face discrimination and could even kick a job.
But people who do low level job's have entirely different life.The amount of racism they face is too much.They are desperate so they can't even kick job's.They just entirely live on their own.For them main Thing is just survival.

That's why I am afraid that if turbaned sikhs will discriminate against these people then they will move away from sikhism forever

 

[kds1980]

Jasleen please also read the following ongoing discussion on sikhnet about racism in usa.the experiance sikhs are writing on sikhnet is just shocking

Re: Two Indian Americans shot dead in San Francisco

 

[Archived_Member1]

just for the record, i never said there was "no racism". of course there is racism in the us. lots of it. against EVERYONE, not only against turbanned sikhs.

my point is that there's not nearly as much hate toward sikhs as sikhs in india seem to think.

i remember a few years back, a sikh cab driver in seattle was stabbed to death. everyone was yelling about racism and hate crimes... turns out the same attacker had stabbed two other cab drivers, one white and one mexican. he was a simple robber. one of his victims was sikh and suddenly it's not safe to wear a turban?

look if sikhs work dangerous jobs, they're just as much at risk of violence as any other person. the world is a violent place. it sucks. the best thing we can do is learn to defend ourselves so we can survive if something does happen.