Japji Sahib - "Suniai" Is "Listening" - But Much More Than That

[Lee]

Re: Japji Sahib - Suniai "Listening" - but much more than that

If you look at the shape of 'oankaar' carefully,it is modified from gurmukhi's first alphabet 'uuda'--the modification is the addition of 'kaar' to it.'kaar' (as far as I know) means creation---so the God is in his creation as well(as independent of it).Or perhaps one could say that when God created this universe,he transformed himself to be present in his creation.

May be some learned person in these forums can correct me if I am wrong(which I probably am) and throw more light on this.

Bhul chuk maaf,
Jagmeet

Jagmeet, Cyber Sangat,

This seems correct to me, also to touch upon God's presence within and without the universe. I always thought that before the universe, there was only God, and when God made the universe God made it out of God.

So in a very real sense, the universe can be said to be at least in part the body of God?

Cheers,

lee.

 

[kaur-1]

Re: Japji Sahib - Suniai "Listening" - but much more than that

I just came across this article on SikhSpectrum.com Quarterly Issue No.25, August 2006

Concept of Sünya (Sünn) ) in Aad Guru Granth Sahib By Hardev Singh Virk

As the article has copyright attached, I will provide the link only.

Concept of Sünya (Sünn) ) in Aad Guru Granth Sahib

 

[kaur-1]

Re: Japji Sahib - Suniai "Listening" - but much more than that

Could I say the following:-
Since 'Satnaam' appears after the kaar,it probably means that God is in the form of 'naam'(which is 'sat' or true) in this universe.This 'naam' is some subtle vibration that pervades the whole universe.I don't remember where I read the analogy with vibration.
Also see the following article in Gurmat Prakash:-
Online Gurdwara Publications, Punjabi Religious Publications, Religious Publications Online, Sikh Religious Publications, Online Free Publications, India

Bhul chuk maaf.
Jagmeet

Yes it does make sense. It also follows on to why we are asked how to be truthful ( + truthful living..) and how to 'discover and obtain' naam ie by "gur kai sabadh veechaaraa" (Ang 754) as Gurbani is based on the truth "Satgur ki bani sat sat kar jaanuh gur sekhuh Har Karta aap muhuh kadhaa-ay" (Ang 308)

quote: 'His name is the Truth – Satnaam. Only God and His name are for ever. Everything else in this world is short lived'


***********

Re: Suneea. Suneea in punjabi to listen or listening but we must do with Surtee is my understanding.

Vaaran Bhai Gurdas :Vaar15Pauri16:SearchGurbani.com

Vaar 15 Pauri 16 Guru-Disiple and disciple-Guru
ਰਤਨਾ ਦੇਖੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਰਤਨ ਪਾਰਖੂ ਵਿਰਲਾ ਕੋਈ ।
ratanaa daykhai sabhu ko ratan paarakhoo viralaa koee|
The jewels are beholden by all but the jeweller is any rare one who test checks the jewels.
ਰਾਗ ਨਾਦ ਸਭ ਕੋ ਸੁਣੈ ਸਬਦ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸਮਝੈ ਵਿਰਲੋਈ ।
raag naad sabh ko sunai sabad surati samajhai viraloee|
All listen to the melody and rhythm but a rare one understands the mystery of Word consciousness,

ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਰਤਨ ਪਦਾਰਥਾ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਮਾਲ ਪਰੋਈ ।
gurasikh ratan padaaradaa saadhasangati mili maal paroee|
The Sikhs of the Guru are pearls who are strung in the garland in the form of congregation.
ਹੀਰੈ ਹੀਰਾ ਬੇਧਿਆ ਸਬਦ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਪਰਚਾ ਹੋਈ ।
heerai heeraa baydhiaa sabad surati mili parachaa hoee|
Only his consciousness remains merged in the Word whose mind diamond remains cut by the diamond of Word, the Guru.
ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪੂਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਸਿਾਣੈ ਸੋਈ ।
paarabrahamu pooran brahamu guru govindu siaanai soee|
The fact that the transcendental Brahm is the prefect Brahm and the Guru is God, is only identified by a gurmukh, the Guru-orientated one.
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੁਖਫਲੁ ਸਹਜਿ ਘਰੁ ਪਿਰਮ ਪਿਆਲਾ ਜਾਣੁ ਜਣੋਈ ।
guramukhi sukhadhalu sahaji gharu piram piaalaa jaanu janoee|
Only gurmukhs enter the abode of inner knowledge to attain fruits of delight and only they know the delight of the cup of love and make others also know it.

ਗੁਰੁ ਚੇਲਾ ਚੇਲਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਹੋਈ ॥੧੬॥
guru chaylaa chaylaa guru hoee ॥16॥
Then the Guru and the disciple become identical.

 

[jagmeet]

Re: Japji Sahib - Suniai "Listening" - but much more than that

What is sabad surati?

What is naam?

I know these are difficult to answer questions,but I hope some enlightened soul(s) here shed some light.

 

[Astroboy]

Malār mehlā 1.
Malaar, First Mehl:

ਜਿਨਿ ਧਨ ਪਿਰ ਕਾ ਸਾਦੁ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਸਾ ਬਿਲਖ ਬਦਨ ਕੁਮਲਾਨੀ ॥
जिनि धन पिर का सादु न जानिआ सा बिलख बदन कुमलानी ॥
Jin ḏẖan pir kā sāḏ na jāni­ā sā bilakẖ baḏan kumlānī.
The soul-bride who has not known delight with her Husband Lord, shall weep and wail with a wretched face.

ਭਈ ਨਿਰਾਸੀ ਕਰਮ ਕੀ ਫਾਸੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਨੀ ॥੧॥
भई निरासी करम की फासी बिनु गुर भरमि भुलानी ॥१॥
Bẖa­ī nirāsī karam kī fāsī bin gur bẖaram bẖulānī. ||1||
She becomes hopeless, caught in the noose of her own karma; without the Guru, she wanders deluded by doubt. ||1||

ਬਰਸੁ ਘਨਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਪਿਰੁ ਘਰਿ ਆਇਆ ॥
बरसु घना मेरा पिरु घरि आइआ ॥
Baras gẖanā mėrā pir gẖar ā­i­ā.
So rain down, O clouds. My Husband Lord has come home.

ਬਲਿ ਜਾਵਾਂ ਗੁਰ ਅਪਨੇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਜਿਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਣਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
बलि जावां गुर अपने प्रीतम जिनि हरि प्रभु आणि मिलाइआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Bal jāvāʼn gur apnė parīṯam jin har parabẖ āṇ milā­i­ā. ||1|| rahā­o.
I am a sacrifice to my Guru, who has led me to meet my Lord God. ||1||Pause||

ਨਉਤਨ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਸਦਾ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਸਿਉ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਸੁਹਾਵੀ ॥
नउतन प्रीति सदा ठाकुर सिउ अनदिनु भगति सुहावी ॥
Na­uṯan parīṯ saḏā ṯẖākur si­o an­ḏin bẖagaṯ suhāvī.
My love, my Lord and Master is forever fresh; I am embellished with devotional worship night and day.

ਮੁਕਤਿ ਭਏ ਗੁਰਿ ਦਰਸੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ਜੁਗਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਸੁਭਾਵੀ ॥੨॥
मुकति भए गुरि दरसु दिखाइआ जुगि जुगि भगति सुभावी ॥२॥
Mukaṯ bẖa­ė gur ḏaras ḏikẖā­i­ā jug jug bẖagaṯ subẖāvī. ||2||
I am liberated, gazing on the Blessed Vision of the Guru's Darshan. Devotional worship has made me glorious and exalted throughout the ages. ||2||

ਹਮ ਥਾਰੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਜਗੁ ਤੁਮਰਾ ਤੂ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਉ ਤੇਰਾ ॥
हम थारे त्रिभवण जगु तुमरा तू मेरा हउ तेरा ॥
Ham thārė ṯaribẖavaṇ jag ṯumrā ṯū mėrā ha­o ṯėrā.
I am Yours; the three worlds are Yours as well. You are mine, and I am Yours.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਭਵਜਲਿ ਫੇਰਾ ॥੩॥
सतिगुरि मिलिऐ निरंजनु पाइआ बहुरि न भवजलि फेरा ॥३॥
Saṯgur mili­ai niranjan pā­i­ā bahur na bẖavjal fėrā. ||3||
Meeting with the True Guru, I have found the Immaculate Lord; I shall not be consigned to this terrifying world-ocean ever again. ||3||

ਅਪੁਨੇ ਪਿਰ ਹਰਿ ਦੇਖਿ ਵਿਗਾਸੀ ਤਉ ਧਨ ਸਾਚੁ ਸੀਗਾਰੋ ॥
अपुने पिर हरि देखि विगासी तउ धन साचु सीगारो ॥
Apunė pir har ḏėkẖ vigāsī ṯa­o ḏẖan sācẖ sīgāro.
If the soul-bride is filled with delight on seeing her Husband Lord, then her decorations are true.

ਅਕੁਲ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਸਿਉ ਸਚਿ ਸਾਚੀ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰੋ ॥੪॥
अकुल निरंजन सिउ सचि साची गुरमति नामु अधारो ॥४॥
Akul niranjan si­o sacẖ sācẖī gurmaṯ nām aḏẖāro. ||4||
With the Immaculate Celestial Lord, she becomes the truest of the true. Following the Guru's Teachings, she leans on the Support of the Naam. ||4||

ਮੁਕਤਿ ਭਈ ਬੰਧਨ ਗੁਰਿ ਖੋਲ੍ਹ੍ਹੇ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਪਤਿ ਪਾਈ ॥
मुकति भई बंधन गुरि खोल्हे सबदि सुरति पति पाई ॥
Mukaṯ bẖa­ī banḏẖan gur kẖolĥė sabaḏ suraṯ paṯ pā­ī.
She is liberated; the Guru has untied her bonds. Focusing her awareness on the Shabad, she attains honor.

ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਿਦ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਾਈ ॥੫॥੪॥
नानक राम नामु रिद अंतरि गुरमुखि मेलि मिलाई ॥५॥४॥
Nānak rām nām riḏ anṯar gurmukẖ mėl milā­ī. ||5||4||
O Nanak, the Lord's Name is deep within her heart; as Gurmukh, she is united in His Union. ||5||4||
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Jagmeet ji,

The closest thing to your physical body is your heart beat and your swaas (breathing).

The closest thing to Soul (our real self) is Naam which is the Celestial Music we (souls) hear. Our individuality as a separate soul still remains even after physical death because beyond the physical are other dimensions life. Life after death of the physical body continues but it is not merger with God. Our physical existence has the shortest span while our emotional body (also known as Astral body) continues its existence without changing into another astral body. Merger with God is not possible until impurities of the mind are reduced to a merger level. That's when HIS grace does the merger.

If one does not hear the Anhad Dhun, it doesn't mean it isn't here.

Just like the heart beats because it is made from the body or part of the embryo developed into an organ, so is Soul developed from the nourishment of the Celestial Music. Without the wisdom of Guru Ji, soul development can take ages. Guru Ji's wisdom quickens the process of merger with God.

Why does everyone stick with the same story when explaining spiritual matters?
That because it has gained a wider acceptance level. But reality and theory differ way too widely. Spiritual wisdom cannot be put into words. Only can be experienced.

When you have trained yourself to hear the Anhad Dhun (Naam) it will take you in stages of realization and one such stage is that this sound current is not just heard but also part of you without which soul cannot exist in the worlds of separation (from God).

 

[Sardara123]

Re: Japji Sahib - Suniai "Listening" - but much more than that

What is sabad surati?

What is naam?

I know these are difficult to answer questions,but I hope some enlightened soul(s) here shed some light.

If you are looking for materialistic logics to argue about these terms, then - Sorry

BUT If you have some respect for Gurbani – Guru Granth, then – You have to become a Gurmukh to find the answer to these terms as it is akath ki katha. Gurbani is the only answer for a GurSikh.

Awsw mhlw 4 ]
ihrdY suix suix min AMimRqu BwieAw ]
gurbwxI hir AlKu lKwieAw ]1]

Constantly listening to the Ambrosial Gurbani in the heart, it becomes pleasing to the mind.​

Through Gurbani, the Incomprehensible Lord is comprehended. ​

iqsu rUpu n ryiKAw Git Git dyiKAw gurmuiK AlKu lKwvixAw ]1] rhwau ]

He has no form or shape; He is seen within each and every heart. The Gurmukh comes to know the unknowable. ||1||Pause|| Ang:129



Git Git hir pRBu eyko suAwmI gurmuiK AlKu lKwieAw ]
The One Lord God, the Master, is in each and every heart; the Gurmukh sees the unseen. Ang:772




iqsu rUpu n ryK Aidstu Agocru gurmuiK AlKu lKwieAw ]
He has no form or shape; He is unseen and unknown. The Gurmukh sees the unseen Lord. Ang:448



How one becomes a Gurmukh: By Obeying the Guru, I hope that don’t need any further explanations.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Japji Sahib - Suniai "Listening" - but much more than that

dUir prwieE mn kw ibrhw qw mylu kIE myrY rwjn ]3]
[FONT=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial]door paraa-i-o man kaa birhaa taa mayl kee-o mayrai raajan. ||3||
[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Tahoma,Arial]When the sense of separation was removed from my mind, then I was united with the Lord, my King. ||3||[/FONT]

ibnisE FITw AMimRqu vUTw sbdu lgo gur mITw ]
[FONT=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial]binsi-o dheethaa amrit voothaa sabad lago gur meethaa.
[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Tahoma,Arial]My stubbornness is gone, Ambrosial Nectar rains down, and the Word of the Guru’s Shabad is sweet and pleasing to me.[/FONT]

jil Qil mhIAil srb invwsI nwnk rmeIAw fITw ]4]3]
[FONT=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial]jal thal mahee-al sarab nivaasee naanak rama-ee-aa deethaa. ||4||3||
[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Tahoma,Arial]He is pervading everywhere, in the water, on the land and in the sky; Nanak beholds the all-pervading Lord. ||4||3||

(Bani of Guru Arjan Dev ji; SGGS; Ang 671)[/FONT]

 

[jagmeet]

Malār mehlā 1.
Malaar, First Mehl:

ਜਿਨਿ ਧਨ ਪਿਰ ਕਾ ਸਾਦੁ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਸਾ ਬਿਲਖ ਬਦਨ ਕੁਮਲਾਨੀ ॥
जिनि धन पिर का सादु न जानिआ सा बिलख बदन कुमलानी ॥
Jin ḏẖan pir kā sāḏ na jāni­ā sā bilakẖ baḏan kumlānī.
The soul-bride who has not known delight with her Husband Lord, shall weep and wail with a wretched face.

ਭਈ ਨਿਰਾਸੀ ਕਰਮ ਕੀ ਫਾਸੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਨੀ ॥੧॥
भई निरासी करम की फासी बिनु गुर भरमि भुलानी ॥१॥
Bẖa­ī nirāsī karam kī fāsī bin gur bẖaram bẖulānī. ||1||
She becomes hopeless, caught in the noose of her own karma; without the Guru, she wanders deluded by doubt. ||1||

ਬਰਸੁ ਘਨਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਪਿਰੁ ਘਰਿ ਆਇਆ ॥
बरसु घना मेरा पिरु घरि आइआ ॥
Baras gẖanā mėrā pir gẖar ā­i­ā.
So rain down, O clouds. My Husband Lord has come home.

ਬਲਿ ਜਾਵਾਂ ਗੁਰ ਅਪਨੇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਜਿਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਣਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
बलि जावां गुर अपने प्रीतम जिनि हरि प्रभु आणि मिलाइआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Bal jāvāʼn gur apnė parīṯam jin har parabẖ āṇ milā­i­ā. ||1|| rahā­o.
I am a sacrifice to my Guru, who has led me to meet my Lord God. ||1||Pause||

ਨਉਤਨ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਸਦਾ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਸਿਉ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਸੁਹਾਵੀ ॥
नउतन प्रीति सदा ठाकुर सिउ अनदिनु भगति सुहावी ॥
Na­uṯan parīṯ saḏā ṯẖākur si­o an­ḏin bẖagaṯ suhāvī.
My love, my Lord and Master is forever fresh; I am embellished with devotional worship night and day.

ਮੁਕਤਿ ਭਏ ਗੁਰਿ ਦਰਸੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ਜੁਗਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਸੁਭਾਵੀ ॥੨॥
मुकति भए गुरि दरसु दिखाइआ जुगि जुगि भगति सुभावी ॥२॥
Mukaṯ bẖa­ė gur ḏaras ḏikẖā­i­ā jug jug bẖagaṯ subẖāvī. ||2||
I am liberated, gazing on the Blessed Vision of the Guru's Darshan. Devotional worship has made me glorious and exalted throughout the ages. ||2||

ਹਮ ਥਾਰੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਜਗੁ ਤੁਮਰਾ ਤੂ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਉ ਤੇਰਾ ॥
हम थारे त्रिभवण जगु तुमरा तू मेरा हउ तेरा ॥
Ham thārė ṯaribẖavaṇ jag ṯumrā ṯū mėrā ha­o ṯėrā.
I am Yours; the three worlds are Yours as well. You are mine, and I am Yours.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਭਵਜਲਿ ਫੇਰਾ ॥੩॥
सतिगुरि मिलिऐ निरंजनु पाइआ बहुरि न भवजलि फेरा ॥३॥
Saṯgur mili­ai niranjan pā­i­ā bahur na bẖavjal fėrā. ||3||
Meeting with the True Guru, I have found the Immaculate Lord; I shall not be consigned to this terrifying world-ocean ever again. ||3||

ਅਪੁਨੇ ਪਿਰ ਹਰਿ ਦੇਖਿ ਵਿਗਾਸੀ ਤਉ ਧਨ ਸਾਚੁ ਸੀਗਾਰੋ ॥
अपुने पिर हरि देखि विगासी तउ धन साचु सीगारो ॥
Apunė pir har ḏėkẖ vigāsī ṯa­o ḏẖan sācẖ sīgāro.
If the soul-bride is filled with delight on seeing her Husband Lord, then her decorations are true.

ਅਕੁਲ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਸਿਉ ਸਚਿ ਸਾਚੀ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰੋ ॥੪॥
अकुल निरंजन सिउ सचि साची गुरमति नामु अधारो ॥४॥
Akul niranjan si­o sacẖ sācẖī gurmaṯ nām aḏẖāro. ||4||
With the Immaculate Celestial Lord, she becomes the truest of the true. Following the Guru's Teachings, she leans on the Support of the Naam. ||4||

ਮੁਕਤਿ ਭਈ ਬੰਧਨ ਗੁਰਿ ਖੋਲ੍ਹ੍ਹੇ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਪਤਿ ਪਾਈ ॥
मुकति भई बंधन गुरि खोल्हे सबदि सुरति पति पाई ॥
Mukaṯ bẖa­ī banḏẖan gur kẖolĥė sabaḏ suraṯ paṯ pā­ī.
She is liberated; the Guru has untied her bonds. Focusing her awareness on the Shabad, she attains honor.

ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਿਦ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਾਈ ॥੫॥੪॥
नानक राम नामु रिद अंतरि गुरमुखि मेलि मिलाई ॥५॥४॥
Nānak rām nām riḏ anṯar gurmukẖ mėl milā­ī. ||5||4||
O Nanak, the Lord's Name is deep within her heart; as Gurmukh, she is united in His Union. ||5||4||
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Jagmeet ji,

The closest thing to your physical body is your heart beat and your swaas (breathing).

The closest thing to Soul (our real self) is Naam which is the Celestial Music we (souls) hear. Our individuality as a separate soul still remains even after physical death because beyond the physical are other dimensions life. Life after death of the physical body continues but it is not merger with God. Our physical existence has the shortest span while our emotional body (also known as Astral body) continues its existence without changing into another astral body. Merger with God is not possible until impurities of the mind are reduced to a merger level. That's when HIS grace does the merger.

If one does not hear the Anhad Dhun, it doesn't mean it isn't here.

Just like the heart beats because it is made from the body or part of the embryo developed into an organ, so is Soul developed from the nourishment of the Celestial Music. Without the wisdom of Guru Ji, soul development can take ages. Guru Ji's wisdom quickens the process of merger with God.

Why does everyone stick with the same story when explaining spiritual matters?
That because it has gained a wider acceptance level. But reality and theory differ way too widely. Spiritual wisdom cannot be put into words. Only can be experienced.

When you have trained yourself to hear the Anhad Dhun (Naam) it will take you in stages of realization and one such stage is that this sound current is not just heard but also part of you without which soul cannot exist in the worlds of separation (from God).

Thank you (and others) for the answer(s).To be able to get god's grace and hear the naam(anhad dhun as you say) should one do repetition of God's name(is this different from naam?)--or something else also?

Pl. shed some more light on sabad surati.

 

[kaur-1]

I remember these words used alot "surt , surtee and dhian.." by my parents when we were young and doing our homework etc.. he he

Punjabi Dictionary : SURT

consciousness, awareness, understanding, mental activity or functioning, sanity, attention;power of reflection and recollection, memory

 

[spnadmin]

jagmeet ji

Do not despair. The discussion of "surt" is hard to follow for me too. Very mystical, very subjective. There are people who have written page upon page about this, and how to "pull in the surt." What to do. Why to do it. The right way to do it. What happens if you do it.

You may just have to "experience" it once to understand it for yourself. It may be that "surt" is one of those things that reading and writing make even harder to understand. Making it too theoretical. Perhaps it is a more natural process-- Like getting the butter-fly stroke right for the first time when swimming -- and then you don't have to think about it again.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Japji Sahib - Suniai "Listening" - but much more than that

Jagmeet, Cyber Sangat,

This seems correct to me, also to touch upon God's presence within and without the universe. I always thought that before the universe, there was only God, and when God made the universe God made it out of God.

So in a very real sense, the universe can be said to be at least in part the body of God?

Cheers,

lee.

well, bani also says God is formless. What kind of things are formless? feelings, ideas, relations, etc. So God is this idea/feeling/relation?