Jhatka In Gurdwaras

[Chaan Pardesi]

KDS1980.

Sadly, it is ironic that although tyhe back boone of the SRM is from the teachings of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and rehatnamas related to his contemporaries, trhe very plaace which is his Takhat, @ hazoor sahib has snubbed the entire Panth and continues to insist its own rituals that it passes off as the Local maryada.

But I like the suggestions put forward by Giani Ji, take up the matter at all levels possible.Do not be frightened off by louts or local self styled gangsters, or threats...bide your time Guru Ji will be with you if you are doing the righteous actions.

I have has one such experiences when one raises the awarness of the sikhs, then some self styled goon will emerge , he may not even know how to write, but he will says he is right but the other is wrong because he will claim the person who says the right thing as seen from maryadic point .... is a liar, owner of alcoholic factories etc, carrying fake ids, etc..just worry not...go your way, Guru Ji will be with you ...


Sadly, our instituitions have side tracked and allowed many issues to be hang in the air and pendeing that we have so much issues..these days ...

 

[kds1980]

KDS1980.

Sadly, it is ironic that although tyhe back boone of the SRM is from the teachings of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and rehatnamas related to his contemporaries, trhe very plaace which is his Takhat, @ hazoor sahib has snubbed the entire Panth and continues to insist its own rituals that it passes off as the Local maryada.

But I like the suggestions put forward by Giani Ji, take up the matter at all levels possible.Do not be frightened off by louts or local self styled gangsters, or threats...bide your time Guru Ji will be with you if you are doing the righteous actions.

I have has one such experiences when one raises the awarness of the sikhs, then some self styled goon will emerge , he may not even know how to write, but he will says he is right but the other is wrong because he will claim the person who says the right thing as seen from maryadic point .... is a liar, owner of alcoholic factories etc, carrying fake ids, etc..just worry not...go your way, Guru Ji will be with you ...


Sadly, our instituitions have side tracked and allowed many issues to be hang in the air and pendeing that we have so much issues..these days ...

At present all sikh sects claim that they are the one with genuine version of Sikhism,so what should a common sikh do?If people will point fingers at them then they could point fingers to many sikh sects and their rituals.

 

[aristotle]

At present all sikh sects claim that they are the one with genuine version of Sikhism,so what should a common sikh do?If people will point fingers at them then they could point fingers to many sikh sects and their rituals.

I believe that the common Sikh should follow the SRM and not the 'Babas' and 'Singh Sahibs'. There is no place for sects or any sub-groups within Sikhism, The Khalsa is a 'Panth', an institution. The question is not of pointing fingers at someone but maintaining one's own religion, anything that is against the Gospel of Guru Granth Sahib and the SRM is against Sikhism and needs to be dealt strongly with.
In no religion other than Sikhism as in SRM are the religious and physical rules such clearly stated and maintained without paradox, Muslims have the voluminous Hadiths, In Jews and Christians too are scattered all over the scripture and most times very vague, Eastern religions cannot even boast of a single source of religious instruction. The SRM is a light and clear book, an advantage to our side, we must maintain and uphold its message among ourselves.
One in the Panth.
Waheguru
animatedkhanda1

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Aristototle Ji...exactly and aptly put.
SIKHS that follow the SRM ar mainstream and have no need to justify anything to nayone..esp the solinter derawadees and jathedbandis. Guur Gobind Singh ji founded the GURU KHALSA PANTH under SGGS. period. all sects, deras, cults came later and are of no consequence...

 

[kds1980]

I believe that the common Sikh should follow the SRM and not the 'Babas' and 'Singh Sahibs'. There is no place for sects or any sub-groups within Sikhism, The Khalsa is a 'Panth', an institution. The question is not of pointing fingers at someone but maintaining one's own religion, anything that is against the Gospel of Guru Granth Sahib and the SRM is against Sikhism and needs to be dealt strongly with.
In no religion other than Sikhism as in SRM are the religious and physical rules such clearly stated and maintained without paradox, Muslims have the voluminous Hadiths, In Jews and Christians too are scattered all over the scripture and most times very vague, Eastern religions cannot even boast of a single source of religious instruction. The SRM is a light and clear book, an advantage to our side, we must maintain and uphold its message among ourselves.
One in the Panth.
Waheguru
animatedkhanda1

Aristotle ji

Sikhism being divided in sects is reality.Its better to live in real world rather than theoritical one which we have in mind.

As far SRM is concerned I agree with it but the problem is when something does not suite your mind in SRM then sikhs start giving arguments against it.

Here are some example

SRM is created in 1945

SRM is man made

SRM was not approved by the whole panth

etc

so its much better we accept diversity in Sikhism for the sake of unity.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

KDS Ji wrote:....As far SRM is concerned I agree with it but the problem is when something does not suite your mind in SRM then sikhs start giving arguments against it.

Here are some example are these 'arguments "" ??? Funny definition of argument ..

SRM is created in 1945............so it ISNT ?? whats wrong with this ??

SRM is man made..........So it ISNT ?? who made it then ??

SRM was not approved by the whole panth.....IT WAS...and IS....

The ONLY 2 members of the ORIGINAL Comittee.... to oppose it in 1945 were BSB Randhir singh of AKJ and Sant Kartar Singh of Taksaal..BOTH disagreed on the Hallal-MEAT part ONLY. THese 2 groups Still OPPOSE..the SRM..but now they are in the Company of a thousand and one other "Baby Saadhs/deras/taksaals/jathas" who in turn have give birth to their very OWN MARYADAS...like nanksaree maryada...Rarrehwalle Maryada..Dhadriwallhee Maryada, ram rahim maryada, Asutosh maryada, Beas Maryada..Bhaniara Sadah Maryada....etc etc etc..and a few "NEW BABY SAADHS " are born very month in Punjab..and Haryana etc etc...Some are nearer to SRM..some are Farther..thats the ONLY Difference between these derawadees and Jathas.

2. Secondly in a travesty of sorts...due to the GROSS and almost Criminal NEGLIGENCE of the SGPC....no elections for almost like 25 Years at one time etc etc...the VERY Jathas/Taksaals that REJECTED the SRM of SGPC and AKAL TAKHAT managed to INFILTRATE these two Institutions via their Granthis,Ragis...ardassiahs trained from TAKSAAL and AKJ instead of the SGPC Missionary Colleges as they should have been. sewadaars etc etc and now these CONTROL the Akal takhat and other Takhats and the SGPC. Thats is why the SGPC/Takhats are now in a mess and the Jat decisons are universally not accepted by all sikhs... NOT a SINGLE Granthi/Ragi/Ardassiah or JATHEDAR at present is from the SGPC Missionary College..each and every single one is either Taksalli or AKJ andthese sit in the SGPC Dharam parchaar comitees as well. Recently there was an attempt to recruit three Misionary college Trained Granthis for darbar sahib..an attempt that was fOILED by vested interests controlling sgpc. SGPC President Jagir Kaur herself is Baba of a Dera Begowaal.. RECENT Past .jathedars like pooran singh, Vedanati, present Jathedar Gurbachan singh all are TAKSALIS. And these "internal saboteurs" have been busy implementing Takslai/AKJ Maryadas in Takhats and SGPC Gurdawars..thats why so many SRM Violations liek Ghee Jyots, idosl, akhand paatsh on Pir graves, Baba smaadhs etc etc taking place so regularly all over. Now SGPC Electiosn the Baba Federation called SANT SAMAAJ has an agreement with the Badal dal to share SEATS...so future SGPC will have a large BABA-DERA NEXUS in the SGPC !! 99% of SGPC aspirants are non rehatwaan...anyway or baba chelas... Thsi is a fact undisputable...and reason for a New SINGH SABHA LEHR or Movement to cleanse the SGPC and takhats and RESTORE the SRM.There are Awakened Sikhs in the Diaspora even if Indian Sikhs are comatose by Baba drugs...and Badal corruption...

etc

so its much better we accept diversity in Sikhism for the sake of unity. NO JI..I dotn agree with this.....then we might as wella ccept the BEAD, SIRSA..ASHUTOSH..Bhaniaras and all....for "unity" and NUMBERS running into millions ????

 

[sachbol]

KDS Ji wrote:....As far SRM is concerned I agree with it but the problem is when something does not suite your mind in SRM then sikhs start giving arguments against it.

Here are some example are these 'arguments "" ??? Funny definition of argument ..

SRM is created in 1945............so it ISNT ?? whats wrong with this ??

SRM is man made..........So it ISNT ?? who made it then ??

SRM was not approved by the whole panth.....IT WAS...and IS....

The ONLY 2 members of the ORIGINAL Comittee.... to oppose it in 1945 were BSB Randhir singh of AKJ and Sant Kartar Singh of Taksaal..BOTH disagreed on the Hallal-MEAT part ONLY. THese 2 groups Still OPPOSE..the SRM..but now they are in the Company of a thousand and one other "Baby Saadhs/deras/taksaals/jathas" who in turn have give birth to their very OWN MARYADAS...like nanksaree maryada...Rarrehwalle Maryada..Dhadriwallhee Maryada, ram rahim maryada, Asutosh maryada, Beas Maryada..Bhaniara Sadah Maryada....etc etc etc..and a few "NEW BABY SAADHS " are born very month in Punjab..and Haryana etc etc...Some are nearer to SRM..some are Farther..thats the ONLY Difference between these derawadees and Jathas.

2. Secondly in a travesty of sorts...due to the GROSS and almost Criminal NEGLIGENCE of the SGPC....no elections for almost like 25 Years at one time etc etc...the VERY Jathas/Taksaals that REJECTED the SRM of SGPC and AKAL TAKHAT managed to INFILTRATE these two Institutions via their Granthis,Ragis...ardassiahs trained from TAKSAAL and AKJ instead of the SGPC Missionary Colleges as they should have been. sewadaars etc etc and now these CONTROL the Akal takhat and other Takhats and the SGPC. Thats is why the SGPC/Takhats are now in a mess and the Jat decisons are universally not accepted by all sikhs... NOT a SINGLE Granthi/Ragi/Ardassiah or JATHEDAR at present is from the SGPC Missionary College..each and every single one is either Taksalli or AKJ andthese sit in the SGPC Dharam parchaar comitees as well. Recently there was an attempt to recruit three Misionary college Trained Granthis for darbar sahib..an attempt that was fOILED by vested interests controlling sgpc. SGPC President Jagir Kaur herself is Baba of a Dera Begowaal.. RECENT Past .jathedars like pooran singh, Vedanati, present Jathedar Gurbachan singh all are TAKSALIS. And these "internal saboteurs" have been busy implementing Takslai/AKJ Maryadas in Takhats and SGPC Gurdawars..thats why so many SRM Violations liek Ghee Jyots, idosl, akhand paatsh on Pir graves, Baba smaadhs etc etc taking place so regularly all over. Now SGPC Electiosn the Baba Federation called SANT SAMAAJ has an agreement with the Badal dal to share SEATS...so future SGPC will have a large BABA-DERA NEXUS in the SGPC !! 99% of SGPC aspirants are non rehatwaan...anyway or baba chelas... Thsi is a fact undisputable...and reason for a New SINGH SABHA LEHR or Movement to cleanse the SGPC and takhats and RESTORE the SRM.There are Awakened Sikhs in the Diaspora even if Indian Sikhs are comatose by Baba drugs...and Badal corruption...

etc

so its much better we accept diversity in Sikhism for the sake of unity. NO JI..I dotn agree with this.....then we might as wella ccept the BEAD, SIRSA..ASHUTOSH..Bhaniaras and all....for "unity" and NUMBERS running into millions ????

HEADS OF ALL TAKHTS MUST MEET AGAIN AND AGAIN TO HAVE ONE AND ONLY ONE RAHIT MARYADA IN ALL SIKH GURDWARAS. THEN IT MUST BE FIRST PRACTISED IN ALL TAKHTS SO AS OTHER GURDWARAS MUST FOLLOW.japposatnamwaheguru:

 

[kds1980]

SRM is created in 1945............so it ISNT ?? whats wrong with this ??

So there was no SRM for 18th century sikhs? SRM used to pass orally from one generation to another .It was after years of research that Akal takht decided to set up one single maryada for the panth.the exact word will be Maryada was standardised not created.

SRM is man made..........So it ISNT ?? who made it then ??

If I am not wrong SRM was made by Guru gobind singh but with the time so many different versions were created ,by saying SRM as man made we are saying that uncut hair,halal, and other kurehits were introduced by SGPC

so its much better we accept diversity in Sikhism for the sake of unity. NO JI..I dotn agree with this.....then we might as wella ccept the BEAD, SIRSA..ASHUTOSH..Bhaniaras and all....for "unity" and NUMBERS running into millions ???

Do sirs wala baba,Ashutosh ,Bhaniara's accept themselves as part of Sikhism? A sikh sect means who accept basic tenants of Sikhism not just any baba or dera

 

[sachbol]

Why our Takhats have different maryadas?

 

[Chaan Pardesi]

I am sorry to say, exactly as individuals wrangle here, was the SRM wrangled about to get one' s own recognition.The MAJORITY of the Panth accepted it after almost 20 years and more of discussions and preparation.The Maryada was already in existence, but some adulteration was also taking place as Giani Ji has touched upon.Many Nirmala, sadh practices,Arya samajist activities along with brahmin based sadh groups were designing to ruin the right and true spirit of Sikhi.

The Sikh intellectual recognised the nefarious designs and actions to constrict Sikh identity back into the fold of Hinduism and other various branches of many persuasions, with strands of Sikhi and mostly Guru Granth used as the attracting pole; thus the need to standardise the maryada was imperative, in order to save the Sikh identity and also preserve the true message of Guru Gobind Singh and the Guru sahibaan.

This is nothing new or different to the law and order of any country or other religions.The fact remains the majority of the Sikhs adhered to and accepted the maryada- which even the small segments trying to impose their own nonsense should have followed- the majority!

But sadly, as said the failure of the SGPC and the infiltration by the sant samajists types, into the premier oraganisation of the Sikhs, created red herrings and diverted the attention of the Panth from the real issues, and all have now began chasing political chairs.Because of the political weightage, the sant samaj[the current days nirmnala, arya samajist etc types] has managed to throw its weight around, and persuaded, those who were seeking opportunities, to start saying the SRM was "never agreed " by the majority!
This is a total travesty of historical and facts.It was a very small and insignificant minority that tried to hold the majority of Sikhs in ransom and impose their own ideas.

The pluralism of Sikhism lies intact, but it is the small groups that are causing the disunity and wrecking sikh aspirations to be united.Sadly, many of those in the large Sikh institutions are adherents of one sadh or another.This causes more issues.Even looking at local Gurduaras abroad, when one surveys, most of the parbandhaks are clean shaven -MONEs- then how can one expect them to implement the central rules of the Sikh sidhant, when they themselves have no understanding of it nor the will to follow it?

Recently, I cam across one such president of a Sikh gurduara- who was happily using terms such as murtad, kaffir...etcc, and he had no clue that as Sikhsim is an independent religion, such terms are alien and not applicable in Sikhi!

Sikhism did not kick out the small groups , quite the contrary told them to adhere to the majority.But because the SGPC and main stream became locked into a situation where their own'

I see here the situation similar to one like where a small majority disagrees with some law being passed by the majority, and once it goes through, the minority then lamants that it was accepted by all.Exactly that is what those Sikhs who are followers of the sadh groups doing now.

As I see it, these small groups should accept the majority and then sat the secen for a dialogue, where these issues can be ironed out sensibly and agreed accomodating the righteous priciple and values per sikhi religion.But the problem is these groups KNOW that their own views will not stand up to the scrutiny of the four principles used to determine the maryada. So their maryadas etc will not get through as they have individual values not that of Gurbani and Guru sahibaan.

So what one does , when they cannot win their own way, then confuse the other side and people who are ever willing scapgoats to fight over irresponsibly, while the groups will sit aside and pick up the results of the pickings!

This is no way explains all, but it is a minbute attempt as the subject in discussion is very wide and sensitive and has to be 190% accurate according to the Gurbani, not tittle tattle decsions of individuals.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

The deras like ashutosh or Sirsa raam rahim may not claim to be "sikhs" per se..BUT its a FACT that MAJORITY of the followers are "SIKHS" ? How do one distinguish..say between a "Gurdwara with SGGS Parkash..and a Second Gurdwara with a SGGS Parkash + Ganesh Moortee/or Guru nanak Statue Parkash at Par with SGGS....and lots of "Sikhs" in sangat listening to sggs paath...and a "Pandaal where Baba Asutosh is "parkash" on stage and the very same "Sikhs" are also in Sangat !! in ALL 3 places ?? What makes one place "SIKH" and the other NOT SIKH ?? I have personally seen more "Sikhs" in Dastaars at BEAS than in a Gurdwara ?? Only difference was that at the Gurdwara the SGGS was on Palki..and in Beas the Dehdharee sat on Stage !! Audience was the same people...and these same ones complete with gatras and all also matha tek and charrah chadars at muslim graves...No more a question of WHO CLAIMS WHAT...its the "SIKHS" who are at fault....Chelleh jaan Chharrapp !!!

 

[aristotle]

The SRM was validated and approved by the 'Sarbat Khalsa' and was a direct result of the sacrifices and martyrdom suffered by the Sikh brotherhood during the 'Gurudwara Sudhar Lehar'. The dera people cannot digest the fact that Sikhism is the only community in the world to have a uniform and rational code-of-conduct approved by the 'whole' community. The task on us is to educate the whole community about the advantages and merits of the SRM, open ourselves to discussion, and sooner all the communities of the world will wish they too had a a code-of-conduct on the lines of SRM. May the day come soon.....
Waheguru

:interestedsingh:

 

[Randip Singh]

The SRM was validated and approved by the 'Sarbat Khalsa' and was a direct result of the sacrifices and martyrdom suffered by the Sikh brotherhood during the 'Gurudwara Sudhar Lehar'. The dera people cannot digest the fact that Sikhism is the only community in the world to have a uniform and rational code-of-conduct approved by the 'whole' community. The task on us is to educate the whole community about the advantages and merits of the SRM, open ourselves to discussion, and sooner all the communities of the world will wish they too had a a code-of-conduct on the lines of SRM. May the day come soon.....
Waheguru

:interestedsingh:

Excellent post Aristotle ji!!