Jhatka Used For Tilak

[faujasingh]

Vegeterianism is pre dominantly a virtue in the minds of the people of Indian origin and then it became a status. They started digging for it in the Bani too and if they found something that suit their opinion, without even getting the context in which anything was said, they just jumped on it.

I would say if you promote vegeterianism dont trample on non vegeterians, i feel it is good to be a vegeterian although i had been one only for a period of 5 years.Things can be said in different ways unfortunately they are not !

I also would agree to a group of sikhs like 3ho who are for vegeterianism. This is a social aspect and its good to have our share in promoting it. But we need to understand that being a vegeterian and being a sikh cannot be interconnected.

I have read on other sikh sites where they curse and slander the budha dal nihangs for the chatka. There is no end to such tantrums. We have to just fold our hands and say 'do what is good for you and let me do what is good for me'

 

[harbansj24]

Well said faujasingh ji. We have been repeatedly coming to the same conclusion of this being a personal choice.

But I would like to add one thing. None of our Gurus promoted vegetarianism. But they did talk about "sanjam" or moderation. Our eating of non veg should be need based and we should not be seen as gluttonous meat eaters.

Unfortunately that exactly is the image of Sikhs. Eat merrily and wash it down with generous amount of whiskey! All our gurus have actively prohibited taking of intoxicants. But a majority of Sikhs are great drinkers. In fact if you go to any market in Punjab, every fourth shop is liquor shop. The consumption of alcohol in punjab is the highest in India. I do not have the stats but I guess that the quantity consumed in Punjab must be equal to the rest of India!

 

[faujasingh]

You are right harbans ji, what we need to understand is our Gurus were neither for it or against it. There are so many saloks where you find that vegeterianism is promoted and many others which tell us to not wrangle over it .

Liquor addiction is a huge prob in states all over India where there is stress laid on no consumption at all ! Gujarat, Punjab, Rajasthan all are leading . What goes along is wife beating and many other factors leading to bankruptcy.

 

[Randip Singh]

Unfortunately that exactly is the image of Sikhs. Eat merrily and wash it down with generous amount of whiskey! All our gurus have actively prohibited taking of intoxicants. But a majority of Sikhs are great drinkers. In fact if you go to any market in Punjab, every fourth shop is liquor shop. The consumption of alcohol in punjab is the highest in India. I do not have the stats but I guess that the quantity consumed in Punjab must be equal to the rest of India!

Ironically I know many Sikhs who are great alcohol drinkers yet vegetarians.

They say to me they are not harming any life....but I think to myself they are harming the most precious of life. Human Life!

 

[Randip Singh]

Panth is already split into different "Manmat Sects". All different Jathas fall into this catogory. We make our own rules and call ourselves Sants and babble what attracts money rather than Gurmat. We keep SGGS as an idol so people can leave money in front of it and fail to follow our Gurus' teachings.

I think, once a section of Sikhism becomes a teaching or interpretation of one person, rather than Guru Paanth, it becomes Maanmat. I think you are right on this point.

SGPC, maybe imperfect, but it is a form of democracy.

 

[baljeet_singh]

I had a question about the whole jhatka think. I read the article which explains why the Nihangs of Hazur Sahib do it etc. but I still don't understand what the actual point of the tilak is? I don't understand how goat's blood has anything to do with shastar... and if it is purly symbolic.... then what is the point of killing the animal purely for some kind of ritual involving blood?

 

[spnadmin]

I think, once a section of Sikhism becomes a teaching or interpretation of one person, rather than Guru Paanth, it becomes Maanmat. I think you are right on this point.

SGPC, maybe imperfect, but it is a form of democracy.

Almost one year later. Randip ji Do you still agree with this statement. Or were you speaking of SGPC in theory as a form of democracy?

 

[Randip Singh]

Almost one year later. Randip ji Do you still agree with this statement. Or were you speaking of SGPC in theory as a form of democracy?

Theory!

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

NOW..the SGPC is the Sikhs WORST ENEMY..by its sheer size and control of huge resources which are brign used (misused) to UNDERMINE Gurmatt, SGGS, Takhats, SRM.Sikh History, ..virtually EVERYTHING Sikhi. It is vastly more dangerous disesase than nay Baba dera/Jatha/Taksaal due to its sheer size, control of all sikh institutions, historical gurdwras and their Golucks, sikh colleges, schools hopsitals, sikh museums, publishing house. gurmatt parchaar... etc. SGPC has out-sourced " Gurmatt parchaar" to the various Babas/kirtaniyahs, dhadees who shout louder than any worthwhile history/katha etc, management of gurdwara buildings to Kar sewa Babas..its elections are OILED by tons of free flowing LIQUOR and DRUGS.:}--}::}--}::}--}::}--}::}--}::}--}::}--}::}--}::}--}::}--}:

 

[hpannu]

Going back into history of Jhatka @ Takht Shri Hazoor Sahib - Giani Ji at our Gurduara Sahib explained - Times were so bad at one time, there were only few sikhs left. Enemy was everywhere and environment was hostile. When a Sikh had to go out to buy groceries, coming back in one piece or alive was not always possible. So Sikhs had to prepare themselves for this hard times. It was during those times they started to do Jhatka of Bakra's (Goats) out in the open / street - warning people that they can defend themselves. The sole intent was not to mess with the Sikhs. And in this way tradition of Jhatka @ Shri Hazoor Sahib was born out of defense for the few remaining Sikhs. This tradition continues to this day.

Bhul Chuk Maaf - I am neither in favor of it or oppose it. Infact i have never been to Hazoor Sahib. But i will definately visit Hazoor Sahib at least once to do Darshan of the Takht Sahib.:happysingh:

 

[Randip Singh]

Going back into history of Jhatka @ Takht Shri Hazoor Sahib - Giani Ji at our Gurduara Sahib explained - Times were so bad at one time, there were only few sikhs left. Enemy was everywhere and environment was hostile. When a Sikh had to go out to buy groceries, coming back in one piece or alive was not always possible. So Sikhs had to prepare themselves for this hard times. It was during those times they started to do Jhatka of Bakra's (Goats) out in the open / street - warning people that they can defend themselves. The sole intent was not to mess with the Sikhs. And in this way tradition of Jhatka @ Shri Hazoor Sahib was born out of defense for the few remaining Sikhs. This tradition continues to this day.

Bhul Chuk Maaf - I am neither in favor of it or oppose it. Infact i have never been to Hazoor Sahib. But i will definately visit Hazoor Sahib at least once to do Darshan of the Takht Sahib.:happysingh:

No offence, but this is a myth!:seriousmunda:

That is not the reason for Jhatka at all.

Sikhs do not kill animals to frighten people or pleasure.

They kill animals for:

1. Food
2. Protect Human and Live stock (in the case of wild animals)
3. Training for martial arts (in which case 1 and 2 is applicable)

 

[sachbol]

What i feel is, a man offers to GOd what he eats and slaughtering a goat with a swift is belived to inculcate a martial spirit in the minds of the people, this in fact was for testing the weapons before war. Trust me its not easy, there are one thousand thoughts coming before you try to give 'stroke' when it is the first time . The decapitating at one go gives a kind of excitement and it is testing the blade and also the accuracy of the person who perfoms the act.

Fauza Singhji for actual test of Mardangi there should not be a goat but an equally strong man with a sharp sword in handswordfightswordfight

 

[kds1980]

Fauza Singhji for actual test of Mardangi there should not be a goat but an equally strong man with a sharp sword in handswordfightswordfight

Sure and then be prepared to spend rest of your life in Jail as no country allow these type of practices

 

[sachbol]

I spent two years in Srilanka as part of Peace Keeping force. We used to get "meat on hoof" ie live goats as meat ration.
We employed some local Tamils to slaughter the goats. Being operational area this was done in the camps where we lived.
Within a short period around 80% of our non-veg loving troops turned vegetarians!

 

[kds1980]

I spent two years in Srilanka as part of Peace Keeping force. We used to get "meat on hoof" ie live goats as meat ration.
We employed some local Tamils to slaughter the goats. Being operational area this was done in the camps where we lived.
Within a short period around 80% of our non-veg loving troops turned vegetarians!

Our Puratan sikhs use to hunt and do chatka ,but they did not turn vegetarian.
I am sure somewhere pakistani soldiers also get their ration as live goats but they also don't turn vegetarian.

Indians have this type of mentality that is why vegetarian baba's attract them a lot

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

And Now nearly two YEARS fater the FACT....I suddenly realised that I had forgotten to question the very Basis/Title of this Thread vis a vis GURBANI in SGGS....and That is...

IN GURBANI spanning 1429 pages of SGGS..there is no BLOOD TILAK at all. The "TILAK" of Gurbani is the Passing on of GYAAN....handing over of the GYAAN KHARRAGH..the SWORD of KNOWLEDGE....opening of our Third Eye to Genuine SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE of AKAL PURAKH means we have the TILAK on our foreheads....
NO OTHER "TILAK" is even mentioned in SGGS...not even once....
And dont even begin to tell us that...OH..weapons came later...after SGGS..WEAPONS were in the HANDS of even the BHAGATS like Bhagat Kabir Ji...gagan dama bajio...Soora so pehchanneayeah...Jo larreh deen ke het..Purza purza katt mareh kabhoon an chhaddeh khet....Guru nanak ji had the GYAAN KHARRAGH in HIS HAND when he faced Emperor Babars Bloody SWORD !! LONG BEFORE a Mentally deprived Slave for a THOUSAND YEARS can even look at a knife without cringing in FEAR.......he needs the GYAAN KHARRAGH to fortify his mental strength..and SPIRIT...and thats what the Bhagats and the Gurus did....until the SIKHS were READY to carry the actual physical weapons of steel in Guru hargobind Jis Army...and FIGHt to WIN !! against the greatest odds and most profesisonally trained hardened soldiers of the Mughal Empire !! a FEAT ?? sure !! a SUPER FEAT no less...

There is no historicla record that Guru hargobind Sahib began rearing captive goats so his sikhs could play "butcher" and learn the art of war or practise warfare..NO WAY. IF Guur Hargobind Ji didnt need goats bloodf on swords..why do we ?? a Plainly goofy idea. and against Gurbani as well..a clearly archaic game of mans superiority over a helpless animal...If it was me i would suggest those Nihung wanna be warriors get lap Tops and play Street Fighter 2 or one of those Games my sons play all the time...way more War training in thsoie simulation games than in a bleeding goat !!( My fav game then was Wolfstein..)

 

[sachbol]

And Now nearly two YEARS fater the FACT....I suddenly realised that I had forgotten to question the very Basis/Title of this Thread vis a vis GURBANI in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji....and That is...

IN GURBANI spanning 1429 pages of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..there is no BLOOD TILAK at all. The "TILAK" of Gurbani is the Passing on of GYAAN....handing over of the GYAAN KHARRAGH..the SWORD of KNOWLEDGE....opening of our Third Eye to Genuine SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE of AKAL PURAKH means we have the TILAK on our foreheads....
NO OTHER "TILAK" is even mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...not even once....
And dont even begin to tell us that...OH..weapons came later...after Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..WEAPONS were in the HANDS of even the BHAGATS like Bhagat Kabir Ji...gagan dama bajio...Soora so pehchanneayeah...Jo larreh deen ke het..Purza purza katt mareh kabhoon an chhaddeh khet....Guru nanak ji had the GYAAN KHARRAGH in HIS HAND when he faced Emperor Babars Bloody SWORD !! LONG BEFORE a Mentally deprived Slave for a THOUSAND YEARS can even look at a knife without cringing in FEAR.......he needs the GYAAN KHARRAGH to fortify his mental strength..and SPIRIT...and thats what the Bhagats and the Gurus did....until the SIKHS were READY to carry the actual physical weapons of steel in Guru hargobind Jis Army...and FIGHt to WIN !! against the greatest odds and most profesisonally trained hardened soldiers of the Mughal Empire !! a FEAT ?? sure !! a SUPER FEAT no less...

There is no historicla record that Guru hargobind Sahib began rearing captive goats so his sikhs could play "butcher" and learn the art of war or practise warfare..NO WAY. IF Guru Hargobind Ji didnt need goats bloodf on swords..why do we ?? a Plainly goofy idea. and against Gurbani as well..a clearly archaic game of mans superiority over a helpless animal...If it was me i would suggest those Nihung wanna be warriors get lap Tops and play Street Fighter 2 or one of those Games my sons play all the time...way more War training in thsoie simulation games than in a bleeding goat !!( My fav game then was Wolfstein..)

Even in present day warfare training no army uses live stock to practice bayonet fighting, hand to hand fighting or to check the effectiveness of ammunition or fire arms.

 

[findingmyway]

I don't think the killing of a goat for meat is the problem. It is the way it is done as a religious event that is the problem-it should be separate. The biggest problem I have with the affair is the use of blood as a tilak. As Gyani ji says, the concept of tilak in its physical form is not in SGGS and it becomes a form of shastar worship. Again worship of objects is not part of the philosophy in SGGS.

 

[sachbol]

Slaughtering a goat for food is OK. It is our personal matter. If you like meat have it and if you do not like do not eat. Some times when a person takes Amrit he is told not to take meat at all and sometimes he is told to stay away from Non-Jhatka ie kutha.

What I think that it must not be done in Gurdwaras. Using goat blood is another ritual which is not allowed in our religion. Using tilak of any kind is not Sikhi. Also as our most learned Singhs have said, the tilak of shasters is akin to worshipping them which is again not allowed.

It is high time our Jathedars of all the Takhats must sit togather again and again to have a common and only one Maryada for all Takhats and for all Gurdwaras. The Gurdwaras which do not follow this maryada must be declared "Non Sikhi Gurdwara" and the jathedars and sewadars of these Gurdwaras must be excommunicated from Panth. But question is "Is it possiblejapposatnamwaheguru:

 

[kds1980]

My question is still not answered why only this ritual comes under attack.


bangla sahib distribute holy water which they call Amrit not only sikhs but hindu's to line up to drink that water.Is there anywhere written in Guru granth sahib to distribute this type of water?