Kala Afghana: Discussion Redux

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Here is Bhagat Kabir Ji..on those who are Deaf dumb blind etc..and HOW SATGUR shoots them with his LOVE ARROW...the SATGUR has the POWER....to touch anyone in any condition...we should only worry about OURSELVES.....
ਕਬੀਰ ਗੂੰਗਾ ਹੂਆ ਬਾਵਰਾ, ਬਹਰਾ ਹੂਆ ਕਾਨ॥ ਪਾਵਹੁ ਤੇ ਪਿੰਗੁਲ ਭਇਆ, ਮਾਰਿਆ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਾਨ॥ 193॥ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੂਰਮੇ, ਬਾਹਿਆ ਬਾਨੁ ਜੁ ਏਕੁ॥ ਲਾਗਤ ਹੀ ਭੁਇ ਗਿਰਿ ਪਰਿਆ, ਪਰਾ ਕਰੇਜੇ ਛੇਕੁ॥ 194॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 1374} Page 1374

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

ਕਬੀਰ ਗੂੰਗਾ ਹੂਆ ਬਾਵਰਾ, ਬਹਰਾ ਹੂਆ ਕਾਨ॥ ਪਾਵਹੁ ਤੇ ਪਿੰਗੁਲ ਭਇਆ, ਮਾਰਿਆ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਾਨ॥ 193॥ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੂਰਮੇ, ਬਾਹਿਆ ਬਾਨੁ ਜੁ ਏਕੁ॥ ਲਾਗਤ ਹੀ ਭੁਇ ਗਿਰਿ ਪਰਿਆ, ਪਰਾ ਕਰੇਜੇ ਛੇਕੁ॥ 194॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 1374}
Page 1374Kabeer, I have become mute, insane and deaf.
I am crippled - the True Guru has pierced me with His Arrow. ||193||Kabeer, the True Guru, the Spiritual Warrior, has shot me with His Arrow
As soon as it struck me, I fell to the ground, with a hole in my heart. ||194|

THIS is the POWER of SATGURU to touch anyone in any condition..deaf mute blind crippled whatever...

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Gyaniji,
Inder singh is a wise person then me, he can certainly give you a befitted reply with Gurbaani quotients but i see you as a Hippocratic. You are talking two things at a time. Coolness is very good i agree. Painde khan was given three chances not one. Guru Arjan Dev ji has taught the coolness but who else can sit on hot plate. This was made possible by his meditation and continuous naam japp and simran of Akal Purakh.
For example Baba Atal Rai ji left to Sachkhand in no time. By hukam of his father this young boy/sorry the kid immediately went into meditation and left this materialistic world. Similarly there are the instances of Sahibjade in Chamkaur. Can't you get anything done by fear of a slap from any kid of that age. Yes ! you can but those were highly blessed souls appeared to complete the task and to share the path of truth. They were well aware of the Dasam Dwar- the door to sachkhand hence they could not be forced to convert. The secret of Baba Deep Singhji, Bhia Mani Singh ji, Baba Banda Bahadar ji, Bhai Sati Das ji, Bhai mati das ji, the list is endless. All were blessed by Waheguru ji as they were close to, by meditation and Naam simran and japp.
Guru Gobind Singh ji, he always dedicated his life to Waheguru-Akal Purakh. He said,"Kharag ket ko aasro Ik ridey hamaarey !! Mahaj bharosa Prabhu ka Nar kiaa vechaare !!
By the hukam of Akal Purakh he baptized Khalsa and the shastra-KIRPAN was made essential part of a Khalsa's life.
Regards and Guru fateh !!
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Gyaniji,
the definition given by you is away from the true meanings.
Here is Bhagat Kabir Ji..on those who are Deaf dumb blind etc..and HOW SATGUR shoots them with his LOVE ARROW.
What were the results of shooting that arrow? What do you mean of it.
Whereas i translate is By the grace(The baan-arrow) of Guru the deaf and dumbness of 5 taskars are killed and I am now free of them. My lust and all other avgun are no more. By his just one sight of love and grace, i have got the pleasure of his Naam simran and japp.
Regards and Guru fateh !!
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

 

[spnadmin]

Ajmer ji

In this line from Kabir

ਕਬੀਰ ਗੂੰਗਾ ਹੂਆ ਬਾਵਰਾ, ਬਹਰਾ ਹੂਆ ਕਾਨ॥ ਪਾਵਹੁ ਤੇ ਪਿੰਗੁਲ ਭਇਆ, ਮਾਰਿਆ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਾਨ॥ 193॥ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੂਰਮੇ, ਬਾਹਿਆ ਬਾਨੁ ਜੁ ਏਕੁ॥ ਲਾਗਤ ਹੀ ਭੁਇ ਗਿਰਿ ਪਰਿਆ, ਪਰਾ ਕਰੇਜੇ ਛੇਕੁ॥ 194॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 1374}
Page 1374Kabeer, I have become mute, insane and deaf.
I am crippled - the True Guru has pierced me with His Arrow. ||193||Kabeer, the True Guru, the Spiritual Warrior, has shot me with His Arrow



Gyani's giaan is the correct giaan.

The seloka does not say anything about the 5 thieves. If that were the intent Kabir would have said that. The entire seloka, which Gyani ji has given above, is about being overtaken by His Love, taken over heart, soul, mind and body to the Satguru. To be overwhelmed with love for him the Piaaraa. To become crippled, speechless, blinded by the experience, and render senseless. The idea of the glance of His Grace, which we read in many places in Gurbani, is what is termed a poetic allusion to the glance of an arrow. His Grace penetrates like an Arrow.

Gyani ji forgive me for being so presumptuous as to pass judgement on your vichaar.

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Aad ji,
Thanks for shading your views but what i NIMAANA could understand, i wrote. Let us wait what others comment.(Not to be published-just remove)
Regards and Guru Fateh !!
Ajmer Singh randhawa.

 

[spnadmin]

You are welcome Ajmerji and we are thankful to have Gyani's giaan.

 

[Inder singh]

ਲਾਗਤ ਹੀ ਭੁਇ ਗਿਰਿਪਰਿਆ, ਪਰਾ ਕਰੇਜੇ ਛੇਕੁ

The above line is important and means when Satguru struck me with arrow i fell on the ground. That means i got rid of my ego or became humble. Ego is the biggest of five thieves.

 

[spnadmin]

There is another shabad, Inder ji, where you are correct. This is not the correct part of Gurbani for that vichaar. Everytime an arrow is shot in Sri Guru Granth Sahib - the Guru is not talking about ego.

 

[Inder singh]

aad ji

The line quoted by me is from the lines giani ji had written

ਲਾਗਤ ਹੀ ਭੁਇ ਗਿਰਿਪਰਿਆ, ਪਰਾ ਕਰੇਜੇ ਛੇਕੁ
Quote of Giani ji

ਕਬੀਰ ਗੂੰਗਾ ਹੂਆ ਬਾਵਰਾ, ਬਹਰਾ ਹੂਆ ਕਾਨ॥ ਪਾਵਹੁ ਤੇ ਪਿੰਗੁਲ ਭਇਆ, ਮਾਰਿਆ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਾਨ॥ 193॥ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੂਰਮੇ, ਬਾਹਿਆ ਬਾਨੁ ਜੁ ਏਕੁ॥ ਲਾਗਤ ਹੀ ਭੁਇ ਗਿਰਿ ਪਰਿਆ, ਪਰਾ ਕਰੇਜੇ ਛੇਕੁ॥ 194॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 1374}
Page 1374Kabeer, I have become mute, insane and deaf.
I am crippled - the True Guru has pierced me with His Arrow. ||193||Kabeer, the True Guru, the Spiritual Warrior, has shot me with His Arrow
Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25205 (Kala Afghana: Discussion Redux)
As soon as it struck me, I fell to the ground, with a hole in my heart. ||194|

THIS is the POWER of SATGURU to touch anyone in any condition..deaf mute blind crippled whatev

 

[spnadmin]

Inderji

That is the line...Kabir ji is pierced in his heart, not in his munn.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Gyaniji,
Inder singh is a wise person then me, he can certainly give you a befitted reply with Gurbaani quotients but i see you as a Hippocratic. You are talking two things at a time. Coolness is very good i agree. Painde khan was given three chances not one. Guru Arjan Dev ji has taught the coolness but who else can sit on hot plate. This was made possible by his meditation and continuous naam japp and simran of Akal Purakh.
For example Baba Atal Rai ji left to Sachkhand in no time. By hukam of his father this young boy/sorry the kid immediately went into meditation and left this materialistic world. Similarly there are the instances of Sahibjade in Chamkaur. Can't you get anything done by fear of a slap from any kid of that age. Yes ! you can but those were highly blessed souls appeared to complete the task and to share the path of truth. They were well aware of the Dasam Dwar- the door to sachkhand hence they could not be forced to convert. The secret of Baba Deep Singhji, Bhia Mani Singh ji, Baba Banda Bahadar ji, Bhai Sati Das ji, Bhai mati das ji, the list is endless. All were blessed by Waheguru ji as they were close to, by meditation and Naam simran and japp.
Guru Gobind Singh ji, he always dedicated his life to Waheguru-Akal Purakh. He said,"Kharag ket ko aasro Ik ridey hamaarey !! Mahaj bharosa Prabhu ka Nar kiaa vechaare !!
By the hukam of Akal Purakh he baptized Khalsa and the shastra-KIRPAN was made essential part of a Khalsa's life.
Regards and Guru fateh !!
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

Guru Piayrio Jios,
Gurfateh.

Its your perogrative to your opinion. Being a HYPOCRITE is not my intention at all. (btw Hippocratic word is name of person and the OATH named after him is taken by Medical Doctors..called Hippocratic Oath - hypocrite is a different word)
BUT to call another GURSIKH "Hypocrite" BHEKHI is NOT GURMATT. That much I KNOW as per the stage of whaever pad i have reached...you are obviously at Chautha pad or even higher as you can see in to my heart and see my hypocracy.
You MISSED my POST by more than a HUNDRED MILES.
As for being "wise"...simply CUTTING and PASTING from Intenret sources deosnt convey any wisdom..own INTERPRETATION in ones OWN WORDS is needed.
Please keep in Chardeekalla always..
Jarnail Singh

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Aadji, Inder singh ji has also approved what i wrote. I may not be able to describe in high litrarte of English but the meanings i get by the grace of Akal Purakh, i quote. I am sure i am right. Guru ji has blessed me to follow,
When the Granth was compiled a Sikh asked Guruji that who would be able to understand it and define it. Guru Arjan Dev ji replied,"Baani lao beecharsi je ko Gurmukh hoye."
Regards and Guru fateh !!
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Gyani ji I feel sorry if i meant calling you Bhekhi. no Gyaniji, you are very well aware what i meant to. I meant you speak two languages simultaneously-The coolness and martialness. I have called you wise also in my mails. That is a regard so don't be jealous but come to practical grounds of reality on discussion.Don't distract.
I have a good understanding of your language and the post, so i am not missed. I assure you. Regards and Guru Fateh !!
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Aadji, Inder singh ji has also approved what i wrote. I may not be able to describe in high litrarte of English but the meanings i get by the grace of Akal Purakh, i quote. I am sure i am right. Guru ji has blessed me to follow,
When the Granth was compiled a Sikh asked Guruji that who would be able to understand it and define it. Guru Arjan Dev ji replied,"Baani lao beecharsi je ko Gurmukh hoye."
Regards and Guru fateh !!
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

Guru Paiayrio Jios, Gurfateh.

At SPN..high/low literacy etc is of no consequence at all. THAT is why we always encourage every poster to WRITE IN HIS OWN WORDS..what he/she UNDERSTANDS Gurbani...and we discourage copycats/cut and paste artists/remix composers !!
English is the main Language..BUT as long as all can get the gist of what is being said its OK..not everyone is having English as First langauge or bilingual but many are trilingual and even four five langauges...no one is discriminated on taht account.
OF course you are right...and you are welcome to what you understand...Bani birla veech{censored}e is applicable to ALL..and GURMUKHS...we all are/not is up to Guru Ji to judge. Just that we DONT PUSH our own understanding on everybody else...bring the horse to water..BUT DONT DROWN HIM...trying to make him DRINK.

Keep in Chardeekalla Jios..:}{}{}::}{}{}::}{}{}:

 

[Inder singh]

Inderji

That is the line...Kabir ji is pierced in his heart, not in his munn.

It does not alter the meaning.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Inder Singh Ji,

It doesnt change anything..kahia sir mathe parnala utheh da utheh...

 

[spnadmin]

Just to belabor the point ---

Here are 3 different ways in which and "arrow" is shot by Guruji -- who is always very clear in His meaning.

Page449 Line 1 Raag Aasaa: Guru Ram Das

ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਬਾਣੀ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਅਣੀਆਲੇ ਅਣੀਆ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਜੇ ॥
har praem baanee man maariaa aneeaalae aneeaa raam raajae ||
The Bani of the Lord's Love is the pointed arrow, which has pierced my mind, O Lord King.

Guruji is saying that Yes the Love the praem of Hari is like an arrow and it pierces the mind "man." Of course it does -- no argument.



5. Page835 Line 19 Raag Bilaaval: Guru Ram Das

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਪਿਆਸ ਉਠੀ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੇਰੀ ਸੁਣਿ ਗੁਰ ਬਚਨ ਮਨਿ ਤੀਰ ਲਗਈਆ ॥
anthar piaas outhee prabh kaeree sun gur bachan man theer lageeaa ||
The thirst for God has welled up deep within me; hearing the Word of the Guru's Teachings, my mind is pierced by His arrow.

Here Guruji is saying "man is pierced by His arrow" because he has a thirst, spiritual desire. Again, this is about the love of Waheguru overtaking the mind.



6. Page861 Line 18 Raag Gond: Guru Ram Das

ਮੇਰੈ ਮਨਿ ਪ੍ਰੇਮੁ ਲਗੋ ਹਰਿ ਤੀਰ ॥
maerai man praem lago har theer ||
My mind is pierced through by the arrow of the Lord's Love.

This one is very specific - Maerai man My Mind is pierced through by His arrow of love praem


Next comes the one we are talking about. Slightly different translation and the meaning of this line is as Gyani told us -- Kabir speaking is completely and totally overwhelmed by the arrow of His Love. This is not about man or ego but about being completely crippled in every way by His Love. Notice the word cẖẖek or ਛੇਕੁ -- specifically not a reference to ego but to a penetrating glance of an arrow that creates kareje a "hole cẖẖek or ਛੇਕੁ ." When man/munn is intended it is used. Here it is not.


And now the one under analysis

ਕਬੀਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੂਰਮੇ ਬਾਹਿਆ ਬਾਨੁ ਜੁ ਏਕੁ ॥
कबीर सतिगुर सूरमे बाहिआ बानु जु एकु ॥
Kabīr saṯgur sūrme bāhi▫ā bān jo ek.
Kabeer, the True Guru, the Spiritual Warrior, has shot me with His Arrow.

ਲਾਗਤ ਹੀ ਭੁਇ ਗਿਰਿ ਪਰਿਆ ਪਰਾ ਕਰੇਜੇ ਛੇਕੁ ॥੧੯੪॥
लागत ही भुइ गिरि परिआ परा करेजे छेकु ॥१९४॥
Lāgaṯ hī bẖu▫e gir pari▫ā parā kareje cẖẖek. ||194||
As soon as it struck me, I fell to the ground, with a hole in my heart. ||194|| |

 

[Inder singh]

[URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%A4"]ਲਾਗਤ

ਹੀ ਭੁਇ ਗਿਰਿ ਪਰਿਆ ਪਰਾ ਕਰੇਜੇ ਛੇਕੁ ॥੧੯੪॥
लागत ही भुइ गिरि परिआ परा करेजे छेकु ॥१९४॥
Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25205 (Kala Afghana: Discussion Redux)
Lāgaṯ hī bẖu▫e gir pari▫ā parā kareje cẖẖek. ||194||
As soon as it struck me, I fell to the ground, with a hole in my heart. ||194||

[/URL]

Here kabir ji says that arrow pierced his heart and he fell down on the ground. That is literal meaning. The central meaning is that he was flattened and ego was removed.

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Aadji,
I too have to say something regarding shooting of arrows. Dasam Patshah ji said,"Khalsa soi jo charey turang !! Khalsa soi jo nit karey jang !!"
Does this mean we the Khalsa should ride a horse and fight daily with opponents.No the message is that we have to ride the horse (Mann), which is always on the run and to control it, simultaniously we the Khalsa has to fight daily with these five evils (Taskars), the enemies of our body and to defeat them daily. We shall not allow them to ride our mind.
Regards and Guru fateh jio !!
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.