Karma, Freewill & Hukam In Sikhism

[Sikh80]

Respected Gyani ji,

I have seen your write ups on some very popular sikhi sites on Jap ji sahib.

These were every enlightening.

If this is the level of understanding that you have what shall be the fate of people like me who have just entered into sikhi or intend to practice the same seriously.Who shall guide us.?

Without disrespect to anyone ,I also find that at many places Bani does not make sense to me .

What do you advise me as a new entrant as I have not yet spent even an year in reading Bani and understanding the same so that I become Amritdhari.

It seems I should stop thinking of becoming Amritdhari and concentrate on my job.

No offence meant. I am as serious as you are. I write too much so that i get to know as to how other sikhs feel about the way I think and in the process improve upon my understanding of sikhism.

I await your advice.

Regards.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Respected Gyani ji,

I have seen your write ups on some very popular sikhi sites on Jap ji sahib.

These were every enlightening.

If this is the level of understanding that you have what shall be the fate of people like me who have just entered into sikhi or intend to practice the same seriously.Who shall guide us.?

Without disrespect to anyone ,I also find that at many places Bani does not make sense to me .

What do you advise me as a new entrant as I have not yet spent even an year in reading Bani and understanding the same so that I become Amritdhari.

It seems I should stop thinking of becoming Amritdhari and concentrate on my job.

No offence meant. I am as serious as you are. I write too much so that i get to know as to how other sikhs feel about the way I think and in the process improve upon my understanding of sikhism.

I await your advice.

Regards.

Guru Piayario Jio, Gurfateh.

No offense taken meant or implied as always. We are all Sikhs..learners.
I am a third generation Gurbani Teacher - my great grandfather, and grandfather/dadee ji... and parents were all Gyanis and teachers of Gurbani..
my point in this is what i learnt on the knees of my mum early was..that understanding Gurbani lies in its ESSENCE....ESSENCE ....... ESSENCE..
This is what i teach my students as well.... to go deep into Gurbani...not just the surface..look for what Guru ji is really saying.

2. Amrtidharee...what you have asked is akin to...which came first..chicken or the egg ?? To me understanding Gurbani and LIVING it in our daily life is infinitely more important than just becoming an "Amrtidharee" for the sake of it...Amrit of Gurbani comes first....then the Khandeh Batte DEe PAHUL. I myself had become "Amrtidharee" at age 50..after LIVING GUrbani for 40 years of my life. Today I see youngsters of age 5 becoming "amrtidharees" just because the parents want them to..... then these reach age 18..and instnatly transform into clean shaven overnight...AHHHH FREE AT LAST !! an "amrtidharee" father i have known for 40 years...threw off his dastaar and shaved clean..at age 55...he had been amrtidharee at his fathers behest...not knowing anythign baout Gurbani..all he knew was BOW to SGGS when in Gurdawra...he still BOWS to SGGS but with a patka temporarily adorned..he told me I wanted to do thsi for decades..just didnt have the GUTS..and furthermore a "DOCTOR" must have a white dastaar..so when i retired and closed the clinic for good..i decided to give up the sham dastaar kesh etc also for good.
This is not to say that a particular age is good /not good.... the Younger Sahibzadehs of Guru Gobind Singh ji did wonders at tender age....what i mean is CONVICTION comes FIRST...and i can definitley say the Zorawar Singh and fateh Singh were CONVINCED to the HILT.
I read all your posts...carefully..you are on the right path. continue.
warmest regards and Best wishes...

PS. By the way have you read the articles on Japji Sahib by my Younger Brother..DR Karminder Singh Dhillon PHD. from Boston USA now in malaysia. These are serialised in the Sikh bulletin from Sacramento. Have a look and give me your comments on those as well....

Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Dear Aad ji

Thanks for the post ! I felt happy reading your response ( really dont know why!)
But you really got the point exactly what I was trying to make.

Knowledge about Good and evil and morals to follow particular path has all the value attached to it , there is no question about their validity

But the problem is that to do as above stated i.e to follow morals as concious decision one has exist as Body /Mind complex with some name ( e.g Jatinder) so Jatinder will try to follow truth living and same jatinder will reap its fruits But the sad thing is While Jatinder is Body/Mind it wil be in illusion of being seperate entity and so the pain fo seperation from Absolute( God)!

As with the Grace of God this Identification with Body /Mind and Name Jatinder Breaks! Life becomes blissfull watching all this good and bad Kramas being earned and Similar Fruits being reaped again and again

I would like to stop just here

Thanks so Much

Jatinder Singh

drKhalsa ji

That is what I was trying to say. And Gyani ji also filled in a lot of the specifics. Things are much clearer now.

 

[Canuck Singh]

Based upon Karma, it is stipulated that we are born into our current situation ie. family primarily. However, how we live our life depends on whether we live a conscious experience - Dharma - or live an unconscious experience, that is allowing Karma to accumulate, which is an animalistic nature. For example you must observe how animals live, accoding to their primitive reactive state. Dharma can cover Karma as that means you are living on purpose. People who live Dharma create their realities. Thus when you pray, know that the answer is on the way, and receive it in its various manifest forms when it arrives.

I believe we are creator's of our own UNiverse, it is just that the creation is not an external experience, it is a Spiritual one...

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Guru piayario Jios...

imho..our GURUS SAHIBAANS...havent kept any secrets...ALL is revealed...as Guru Arjun ji has written..Pio Daddeh ka KHOL DITTHA KHAZANAH...the 1429 pages of Sahib Sri Guur Garnth Sahib Ji contains EVERYTHING that is relevant for us..SIKHS. ( Ever noticed that our "religion" is NOT named after the Founder..Nanakism....BUT after the FOLLOWERS..SIKHISM...further consolidated by Guru Gobind Singh ji in Anandpur Sahib 1699 as Waho Waho Gobind Singh Ji aapeh GUR..CHELA )

THIS is the "MIRACLE" of Sikhism.... the GURU..FOUNDER and the Follower SIKH are at the same LEVEL. Thus we have Guru Arjun Ji sitting calmly on Hot Plate proclaiming serenely Tera Bhanna Meetha Laggeh..and Bhai Dyala Ji sitting calmly in a BOILING POT and proclaiming the same Tera bhanna Meetha Laggeh..ONE is "GURU"..the other is "CHELA".....and this "MIRACLE" is not just once or twice..not just tens..or hundreds..or thousands..its in the MILLIONS.

GURBANI declares that the GENUINE GURU is PARAS....a PARAS is the mythical stone that can TRANSFORM anything it touches into ITSELF !! Thus the SECOND "Paras" is EXACTLY the same as the Original....just as nothing distinguishes the "Flame" of the millions of candles LIGHTED from just ONE ORIGINAL candle....similarly the "Flame" that burns in each and every Genuine SIKH is the SAME as the "flame" that the GURUS had from 1469-1708 and NOW burns inside the SGGS....

The GURU NEVER kept anything from US...NEVER treated US as any different..lower..less than HIMSELF....HE held US tightly to His BREAST..and still does....

FALSE and FAKE.."classifications"..have been created...to identify..and put in "boxes"....so and so is a "Brahmgiani"...so an ordinary SIKH is lower..less than him..etc etc. Sukhmani Sahib is quoted to reinforce thsi artificial classes/discriminations....Brahmgiani ki gat brahmgiani janneh....meaning ONLY a "Brahmgiani" can "KNOW" about another similar stage "Brahmgiani". To me imho..this BRAHMGIANI is AKAL PURAKH HIMSELF..and what Gurbani means is that ONLY AKALPURAKH knows about AKALPURAKH. Period. The Satgur..the GURU..the Saadh..the SANT..is NOW manifested in GURBANI of SGGS. NO other Saadh/Sant/Brahmgiani/guru/satguru..etc etc EXISTS TODAY..ONLY the Sacred GURBANI of SGGS.

This is in relation to some apprehensions raised by some of my dear readers on this Forum ( as well a s elsewhere)..as to why the GURU JYOT is being compared/questioned....as ONLY the GURU/BRAHMGIANI can know about such matters ?? The fact is the GURBANI encourages us to ask questions... that is WHY Bhagat Kabir ji asks the "Brahmin...supposedly infallible GURU of all.." as to WHY he too comes into this World the SAME way as anybody else ?? O Brahmin..if you are so special why didnt you come another way ?? This question had to be asked because the Brahmin wanted to be treated as different...infallible and et al...while the GENUINE GURU....the writers of the True GURBANI (SGGS) wanted to reveal the TRUTH. No where did our GURUS or the writers of sacred Gurbani anywhere even remotely attempt to say...I am DIFFERENT...better...higher..special...they all revealed so much HUMILITY..humbleness..serenity..sehaj..pyaar..ALL the GUNNS of AKAL PURAKH without claiming any such. WE are SIKHS..followers of THOSE "TRUE GENINE GURUS"...now their JYOT is is SGGS...thus we have the KEYS to all their TREASURES...without discrimination..each SIKH has his own personal KEY to SGGS....use it please...to UNLOCK the secrets of the JYOT of Guru nanak ji.

Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[drkhalsa]

Based upon Karma, it is stipulated that we are born into our current situation ie. family primarily. However, how we live our life depends on whether we live a conscious experience - Dharma - or live an unconscious experience, that is allowing Karma to accumulate, which is an animalistic nature. For example you must observe how animals live, accoding to their primitive reactive state. Dharma can cover Karma as that means you are living on purpose. People who live Dharma create their realities. Thus when you pray, know that the answer is on the way, and receive it in its various manifest forms when it arrives.

I believe we are creator's of our own UNiverse, it is just that the creation is not an external experience, it is a Spiritual one...

Dear Canuck.

I really Liked your post ! thanks for the post

But I like you to elaborate more about the things you mentioned especially living a conscious experience and also hows it different from animals way of living ?


Thanks

Jatinder Singh

 

[spnadmin]

quote from Gyani Jarnail ji above

This is in relation to some apprehensions raised by some of my dear readers on this Forum ( as well a s elsewhere)..as to why the GURU JYOT is being compared/questioned....as ONLY the GURU/BRAHMGIANI can know about such matters ?? The fact is the GURBANI encourages us to ask questions... that is WHY Bhagat Kabir ji asks the "Brahmin...supposedly infallible GURU of all.." as to WHY he too comes into this World the SAME way as anybody else ?? O Brahmin..if you are so special why didnt you come another way ?? This question had to be asked because the Brahmin wanted to be treated as different...infallible and et al...while the GENUINE GURU....the writers of the True GURBANI (SGGS) wanted to reveal the TRUTH. No where did our GURUS or the writers of sacred Gurbani anywhere even remotely attempt to say...I am DIFFERENT...better...higher..special...they all revealed so much HUMILITY..humbleness..serenity..sehaj..pyaar..ALL the GUNNS of AKAL PURAKH without claiming any such. WE are SIKHS..followers of THOSE "TRUE GENINE GURUS"...now their JYOT is is SGGS...thus we have the KEYS to all their TREASURES...without discrimination..each Sikh has his own personal KEY to SGGS....use it please...to UNLOCK the secrets of the JYOT of Guru nanak ji.
/end of quote

This is very special stuff. Thank you. We are not cranes in meditation or parrots in dhyan. I am certain the Gurus answered any question they were asked, and continue to answer them today. With sincere effort and an open mind these questions go straight to them.

 

[Sikh80]

Respected gyani ji,
Why restrict it to sikhs.?
Anyone who has an access to Granth sahib should have the key.
But we do help one another as human beings in advising as to how to use the keys when the groves are multiple and the key is single.
Bani is Nirankaar.Even reading it should make one feel near the God.

Regards

 

[Canuck Singh]

Dear Canuck.

I really Liked your post ! thanks for the post

But I like you to elaborate more about the things you mentioned especially living a conscious experience and also hows it different from animals way of living ?

Dear Ji,

I will elaborate. If we can imagine for a minute the beginning of the know Universe, we can speculate that all of the event's that have occurred have done so out of randomness. Or alternatively we can imagine that the event's that have led up to humanity showing up here on this 3rd planet from the sun, can also be considered one of the potentially infinite possible combinations of natural course of events, known as parsimony in phylogenetics. What this means is that if we take a single celled organism for example, it is bound by the forces, and biochemical reactions that occur simultaneously in any given time. If 'food' is present it responds to it by a process known as chemotaxis. This is the same primitiveness of non-consciousness that all species experience with the exception of humanity. All species before us were bound to the environment and did not have the capacity to 'think' and mold the Universe in any fashion that they desired. This means that all events leading up to humanity showing up on earth were not entirely random, they were the most parsimonious occurrences since the UNiverse's inception. Reality would not unfold in any other way if the Universe unless the Universe in the first few moment's was significantly different. But it was not, else we wouldn't be here.

Thus, step on the scene the humanity. Human's for the most part have the capacity of being aware, or living consciously, but if we examine history we see for the most part they have been living an unconscious existence. THe nature of humanity is one of ego, selfishness, power-struggle, inability to control sensory/environmental emotions/experiences.

If you have perhaps heard Descarte's famous quote "I think therefore I am", upon which all of medical science has been based in the last 300 years, we can realize the inability for the individual or collective human consciousness to escape from the mind. What Descartes failed to realize is that, if he was thinking and the only thing that he could do was think, then technically all he is is thought. The most significant mistake was the fact that Descarte is not who he is because he can think, but he is who he is because he is AWARE that he can think. What is awareness? Awareness is Conscious awakening. It is moments in human existence where although we leave our mind, we delve into a space or Gap between being unconscious and conscious. We arrive to the Secret of all existence that is Source-Consciousness. This is the state that can be reached via meditation. This state can be reached by Spiritual Saints, and through history we see various examples. Source or God-Consciousness transcends primitive human/animalistic emotions, and awakens the human being to be the preceptor of their Universe. Where once they were bound by the human body and mind, they are now unleashed to experience the Universe via being Awake and Aware of the Universe that surrounds them.

This state in reality is achieved by very few. Examples include the Various Saints and Bhagats, and the Great Guru's. They realised that amidst human existence, amidst all the unconscious and destructive behaviour of the human mind, that God is Dwelling in all places and at all times. They were capable of seeing the Lord in animals, in fields and crops, in those who committed evil atrocities. They realized the Allusion of this primitive human existence and reached the emancipated state. This state which we the follower's of the Shabad Guru can only achieve if we live according to Dharma, else we live according to the Karma and create more Karma.

Finally, from a researcher in the field: there's recent research in the field, which is called neuro-theology, where they've used MRI scans to observed what happens in the brain during meditation and prayer. And what they've discovered is that the hippocampus — which is the memory center of the brain — is also a relay station, in that all the impulses go through the hippocampus and are relayed to the other parts of the brain. So when a person meditates, chants, or prays, the impulses go through the hippocampus and then to a lateral part of the brain.

In other words, while a person is having an experience of transcendence, or God, there are indications on the MRI. So I would postulate, although I don't really know the answer, that built-into the design of the brain is that we're supposed to remember that we're spiritual beings after all. Because the memory center is the relay station for spiritual experience.

We often think of ourselves as human beings trying somehow to "plug into" our spirits. Perhaps it's the other way around. Perhaps we're spiritual beings trying to have a human experience. We have to remember that we live in our spirits, not in our bodies.

 

[pk70]

(quote canuk Singh)
If you have perhaps heard Descarte's famous quote "I think therefore I am", upon which all of medical science has been based in the last 300 years, we can realize the inability for the individual or collective human consciousness to escape from the mind. What Descartes failed to realize is that, if he was thinking and the only thing that he could do was think, then technically all he is is thought. The most significant mistake was the fact that Descarte is not who he is because he can think, but he is who he is because he is AWARE that he can think. What is awareness? Awareness is Conscious awakening. It is moments in human existence where although we leave our mind, we delve into a space or Gap between being unconscious and conscious. We arrive to the Secret of all existence that is Source-Consciousness. This is the state that can be reached via meditation. This state can be reached by Spiritual Saints, and through history we see various examples. Source or God-Consciousness transcends primitive human/animalistic emotions, and awakens the human being to be the preceptor of their Universe. Where once they were bound by the human body and mind, they are now unleashed to experience the Universe via being Awake and Aware of the Universe that surrounds them.
This state in reality is achieved by very few. Examples include the Various Saints and Bhagats, and the Great Guru's. They realised that amidst human existence, amidst all the unconscious and destructive behaviour of the human mind, that God is Dwelling in all places and at all times. They were capable of seeing the Lord in animals, in fields and crops, in those who committed evil atrocities. They realized the Allusion of this primitive human existence and reached the emancipated state. This state which we the follower's of the Shabad Guru can only achieve if we live according to Dharma, else we live according to the Karma and create more Karma.

canuk Singh Ji
I wish people realize that fact in the same manner as you worded out; I feel this is the point people miss while in intellectual flights. We cannot disregard others experience always as hallucinations or so. Personal experiences found in Guru Granth Sahib are so amazing that our limitations seem laughable. I adore your comments here because they have fragrance.

 

[Sikh80]

Knowingly or unknowingly we all create karmas unless you explain the tri-badh.It should be a challenge for you. it would be a service to humanity pk 70 ji,.

Warm regards.

 

[pk70]

Knowingly or unknowingly we all create karmas unless you explain the tri-badh.It should be a challenge for you. it would be a service to humanity pk 70 ji,.

Warm regards.

Sikh80 jio

I am just lover of Gurbani, totally grounded in it ,nothing appeals me better than it. NONE. What we do knowingly or unknowingly is part of His great Ordinance. I have no challenge against any one, the only challenge is for myself. Struggling to walk on Guru shown path, I fall, energized feeling by Gurbani, makes me stand again, it goes on. It doent allow me to follow the crowd. Only thing I can claim is I am not what I was ten years ago. Service to community is an illusion people try to enjoy by saying so; the big service is done by Him through all of us ( HIS medium). Thanks.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Respected gyani ji,
Why restrict it to sikhs.?
Anyone who has an access to Granth sahib should have the key.
But we do help one another as human beings in advising as to how to use the keys when the groves are multiple and the key is single.
Bani is Nirankaar.Even reading it should make one feel near the God.

Regards

Guru Piayario Jio,
Gurfateh.

Imho you have taken the "superficial" meaning of "SIKHS".... I dont mean just you and me..."Sikhs" we see or meet up with in the Gurdwara...in Punjab..typically wearing.... say... a dastaar/karra/kirpan gatra....etc

My meaning of "SIKHS" is just about every human being who has access to the Divine Gurbani..in any langaugae..in any script...in any form...kirtan..youtube video...cds dvds computer based..multimedia.. etc etc...whomsoever the GURU touches gets the KEY....
Just as an off hand experience... I have a very dear friend in Uganda...an African Male who was just passing by a Gurdwara...he heard some "divine music" in a totally alien language...but he was drawn in..and after listening to the kirtan..he was so entranced that he just had to go to...AMRITSAR ( after finding out some relevant facts about what he had heard and what the place was etc etc...)

That was where I met him... in AMRITSAR outside the Baba deep Singh Gurdwara..I was lost in my own little world having travelled back in time to Baba Jis shaheedee....and was in vairaag..and suddenly i felt a soft tap on my shoulder...i had to LOOK UP to see what it was....a totally black person with skin like black ebony in shiny white dastaar gatra and all...... i had met a soul-bride !!! and we both had KEYS to Gurbani...mine was handed to me after 50 years of living in a Sikh Household..his was brand NEW handed to him just like THAT !!!

That was wayback in 2005 december..we now correspond daily....and have yet to get bored with "Questions about Gurbani"....he asks and i answer..or i ask and he answers...

All over the world i have acquaintances who are Ukrainian..greek..bosnian...albanian..canadian..germans..etc etc..and all were handed the KEY by Guru ji at odd tiems and places....and NOT all are "Sikhs" as you took the meaning to be....but they are certainly SIKHS of Guur nanak ji....

Warm Regards
Gyani Jarnail Singh:yes:

 

[Sikh80]

Thanks for clarification.What is this ..imho...??
I do have questions and feel that i should ask irrespective of the fact whether some members may mind.I shall do that in the thread of Hinduism and sikhisim off shoot. etc....I even do not remember the thread and the members are grappling with one another.it was my mistake. It seems.imho...!!

what is this imho!!!

 

[Sikh80]

Sikh80 jio

I am just lover of Gurbani, totally grounded in it ,nothing appeals me better than it. NONE. What we do knowingly or unknowingly is part of His great Ordinance. I have no challenge against any one, the only challenge is for myself. Struggling to walk on Guru shown path, I fall, energized feeling by Gurbani, makes me stand again, it goes on. It doent allow me to follow the crowd. Only thing I can claim is I am not what I was ten years ago. Service to community is an illusion people try to enjoy by saying so; the big service is done by Him through all of us ( HIS medium). Thanks.

Yes, Sir, it is a nice way of ignoring those who need most.Kindly reconsider. Yes, It is different if you do not want to share at all.

 

[Canuck Singh]

IMHO = In my honest opinion

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

IMHO = In my honest opinion

..

OR....also acceptable by me....

In My Humble Opinion....

Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[Sikh80]

IMHO = In my honest opinion

Thank you And Gyani ji ,Sir.
The vibes I get from this is very positive.You should be very holy personalities.

Regards.!!

 

[Ishna]

Apologies for bumping an old thread, but this is a really amazing thread to read with some really inspiring paragraphs! I'd like to think I'm understanding, but I don't think I am. I'm still a tad confused about hukam.

Reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it seems to me that nothing can occur outside of Hukam. Therefore, no true "free will" exists (free will, ie, doing anything of your own volition, is an illusion). We all act as we are guided to act (see post #14 of this thread, on page 2, by Sikh80, for gurbani supporting this). Some will be drawn close, some driven further away.

If this is he case, why then are we instructed to follow Hukam, when we don't actually have a choice to follow it? Is it an instruction to accept the Hukam, rather than struggle against it? But if one was to struggle against it, wouldn't one be following Hukam anyway???

I also get mentally stuck trying to rationalise and justify the birth of a young girl (for example) in an impoverished country, who is cut up, and sold into prostitution before she's even 10, and her life is hell thenceforth. Is it Hukam that this should happen to her? Is it her karma? Is it the free will (if it exists) of others forcing her into this situation? This issue causes me great personal struggle, and perhaps it will diminish if I can better understand concepts like Hukam.

Many thanks in advance to any who choose to reply.

Ishna

 

[Ishna]

The more I read into the idea of Hukam and free-will, the more I detect a contradiction within Gurbani. I'm sure that is not the case and it is my understanding which is flawed. I would appreciate assistance with this problem if possible, please.

ਪੂਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਮੰਨੈ ਓਹੁ ਮਨਮੁਖੁ ਅਗਿਆਨੁ ਮੁਠਾ ਬਿਖੁ ਮਾਇਆ ॥
Pūre gur kā hukam na mannai oh manmukẖ agi▫ān muṯẖā bikẖ mā▫i▫ā.
One who does not obey the Hukam, the Command of the Perfect Guru - that self-willed manmukh is plundered by his ignorance and poisoned by Maya. (P303)

ਜਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਾ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਮਨਾਵੈ ॥
Jā ṯis bẖāvai ṯā hukam manāvai.
When it is pleasing to Him, then He inspires us to obey the Hukam of His Command. (P337)

ਮੰਨੇ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਸੁ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਜਾਇ ॥
Manne hukam so pargat jā▫e.
One who obeys the Hukam of the Lord's Command, goes to Him openly.(P355)

ਸੋ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰੇ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਮਨਾਇਸੀ ॥
So sevak sevā kare jis no hukam manā▫isī.
That servant, whom the Lord causes to obey the Order of His Will, serves Him. (P471)

ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਮੰਨਈ ਤਾ ਘਰ ਹੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਦੂਰਿ ॥
Nānak hukam na mann▫ī ṯā gẖar hī anḏar ḏūr.
O Nanak, if one does not obey the Hukam of the Lord's Command, then within one's own home, the Lord seems far away. (P510)

ਜਿਤੁ ਕੋ ਲਾਇਆ ਤਿਤ ਹੀ ਲਾਗਾ ਤੈਸੇ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥
Jiṯ ko lā▫i▫ā ṯiṯ hī lāgā ṯaise karam kamāvai.
He is attached to that, to which the Lord has attached him, and he acts accordingly. (P476... not one of my favourite pages...)

So which is is?? Sometimes it is written we can choose to follow the Hukam. Other times it is written that Waheguru directs us to follow the Hukam or not. My brain is going to explode soon!

Thanks for any assistance (if possible).

Ishna