Kesh: Dreadlocks
- Thread starter Gobinda
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Thanks. I hope your words ring as loud and as clear for everyone else as they do for me.
I certainly agree with you. People need to open their eyes. Such a small matter will not alter your future if done correctly
self deception right ?? freedom to Walk IN..and OUT as and when one pleases ? right ? When feeling "pure" believe ones self to be Khalsa..when faced with "Convert or DIE..Guru Arjun Ji..Guru Teg bahadur Ji..Bhai Mati dass Ji..Bhai taru Sigh Ji..etc....SUBMIT QUIETLY and admit..OH Islam is also PURE ?? Right ??
Fortunately not Right at all...NOT a SINGLE one said that and converted..or gave up their "KHALSAHOOD"...
The Khalsa I am talking about is the one that Guru Gobind Singh ji declares as "MERA ROOP HAI KHAS...and the roop that stays NIARA..DISTINCT and DISTINGUISHABLE in a crowd of Hundreds Thousands..the Roop that has VISIBLE DISCIPLINE....RIGHT ?? YES right.
This KHALSA requires the Discipline..and the REHAT..and the ROOP as well as a PURE HEART. When Guru Gobind Singh Ji drew a Naked sword and asked for a HEAD..He wasnt looking (via??? Maybe some sort of Invisible Lser eye at everyones hearts and checking IF they were PURE/Dirty/Filthy....I SERIOUSLY DOUBT anyone has this Laser Eye even Today to check PURITY...)
and when DYA RAAM stood up and offered his head..and Guru Ji took it...and then again another FOUR TIMES...and then FINALLY GURU GOBIND SINGH JI HIMSELF KNELT DOWN before the PANJ to recieve the PAHUL and JOIN the KHALSA...any one seriously doubt Guru ji had PURE heart or not ?? RIGHT ??? NO JI SERIOUSLY WRONG.
Playing with WORDS...is NOT RIGHT.PERIOD. The PAHUL is simply a CEREMONY..voluntary and not coecerd on anyone..whether one is PURE or FILTHY depends on ONES SELF...and YES a FILTHY one can "cheat" the PANJ and enter the PAHUL and emerge a "KHALSA"..just as easily....But at the end of the day its SELF DECEPTION...that he is now PURE !!! Such a Khalsa will be the first to RUN away from Battle..be the first to CONVERT..etc. RIGHT ?? You bet.
Any information on..Bhai dassu and Bhai Dattu ji (one who KICKED Guru Amardass ji in snagat for being overlooked by his father Guru Angad sahib ji for the Gurgadee)...Bhai Prithyah Chand.( elder brother of Guru Arjun Ji who actively assited Bhai Chandu ji in the martyrdom of Guru Arjun Ji..and a host of others who like Bhai Sri chand had dreadlocks.???.and also attained Mukhti ??
The GURUS had lots of relatives, sons, etc..who must have attained mukhti like Sri Chand despite disobeying their Fathers (GURU SAHIBS)....but Sikh history doesnt mention them...i wonder why they are neglected since they too attained Mukhti by being disobedient, disrespectful and downright envious and full of enmity and revenge too...One guy SHOT at Guru teg bahadur jia nd MISSED..today his descendats run a HUGE DERA..where they drive out BHOOTS..and dish out MUKHTI to followers...Dera Wadbhag Singh !!! Imho MUKHTI is also available there..and of course Baba Wadbhag Singh is MUKHT too...
Anyone and Everyone who EVER BOWED down is mentioned in SGGS...but SRI CHAND, Dassu, Dattu, Prithiyah Chand m etc etc are NOT among those. The SGGS is AUTHENTIC .
This Sri chand theory is a total FAKE...disobedient to the point that Guru Nanak ji REJECTED him as the next GURU is beyond reproach as true fact.
I meant to say the other Sikh Gurus bowed down to Sri Chand.
If I remember correctly, he did NOT want Gurugudee, and a Sikh Guru has also given one of his sons to Sri Chand as well, our Gurus know best.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is certainly authentic, I agree!!
While I do not know why his bani is not in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, it doesn't mean he is najais.
This is also FAKE. Baba Gurditta was born in 1613 and died in 1638 aged 15.
Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji MET Sri Chand BEFORE the Birth of Baba Gurditta ji in 1613...and Sri Chand DIED in 1629...when Baba Gurditta Ji was just 15. In Fact 4 out of the five sons of Guru hargobind ji died during the lifetime of Guru Ji...ONLY Guru Teg bahadur ji survived.
2. Baba Attall rai third son of Guru hargobind ji REVIVED a DEAD BODY..and Guru ji told him he would have to recompense that by giving up his own life...YET one of Sri Chands MIRACLES is REVIVING DEAD BODIES ??? A Guru who teaches his own SON Attal rai..something..IGNORES it and "bows" to Sri Chand ?? and how did Sri Chand escape the punishment that Attal rai received for reviving dead bodies ??
Fact is ALL these are TALL TALES spun by the wily BIPPAR to waylay SIKHS form the true Path of SGGS...
NO one bowed to anyone...ALL those who BOWED are NAMED in SGGS. SO IF any Guru did bow to sri chand..its NOT MENTIONED in SGGS....WHY ?? why leave out such a VITAL info ?? fact is its not true.
Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji MET Sri Chand BEFORE the Birth of Baba Gurditta ji in 1613...and Sri Chand DIED in 1629...when Baba Gurditta Ji was just 15. In Fact 4 out of the five sons of Guru hargobind ji died during the lifetime of Guru Ji...ONLY Guru Teg bahadur ji survived.
2. Baba Attall rai third son of Guru hargobind ji REVIVED a DEAD BODY..and Guru ji told him he would have to recompense that by giving up his own life...YET one of Sri Chands MIRACLES is REVIVING DEAD BODIES ??? A Guru who teaches his own SON Attal rai..something..IGNORES it and "bows" to Sri Chand ?? and how did Sri Chand escape the punishment that Attal rai received for reviving dead bodies ??
Fact is ALL these are TALL TALES spun by the wily BIPPAR to waylay SIKHS form the true Path of SGGS...
NO one bowed to anyone...ALL those who BOWED are NAMED in SGGS. SO IF any Guru did bow to sri chand..its NOT MENTIONED in SGGS....WHY ?? why leave out such a VITAL info ?? fact is its not true.
I would like to see a return to discussion of dreadlocks. Sometime back I made this request and expected it to be taken seriously.
A 21st Century cartoon of Guru Gobind Singh and his sons, worshiping Sri Chand (blue with dreadlocks), who was dead by the time of the 10th Master is evidence of WHAT?
No one has any longer to hold up the argument against these chronic Mahant explanations of Sikhi, its history and scriptures. You can take a well-deserved break now and enjoy the on-going discussion.
There is no rule against interpretations of Sikhi and its history that are out of sync with historical evidence. Opinion is welcome. Not welcome is a pattern of visits to the forum taken up with purely imaginary information and cartoons. Often this has taken the form of half-baked Hindu philosophy .Maybe that is even what happened in the times of our Gurus. It will not happen here.
As a reminder, although SPN does not endorse the point of view of a poster, SPN does have terms of service that require staying on topic and condemns statements that undermine Sikhism or the Sikh Gurus and their sacred texts. Comments can be deleted without warning. Continued infractions, chronic inability to represent Sikhism with respect, and refusal to heed admin requests leads to suspension of privileges on this network. All that was gained by the discussion and picture posting of Sri Chand was to trivialize the serious inquiries of the OP.
Thanks
A 21st Century cartoon of Guru Gobind Singh and his sons, worshiping Sri Chand (blue with dreadlocks), who was dead by the time of the 10th Master is evidence of WHAT?
No one has any longer to hold up the argument against these chronic Mahant explanations of Sikhi, its history and scriptures. You can take a well-deserved break now and enjoy the on-going discussion.
There is no rule against interpretations of Sikhi and its history that are out of sync with historical evidence. Opinion is welcome. Not welcome is a pattern of visits to the forum taken up with purely imaginary information and cartoons. Often this has taken the form of half-baked Hindu philosophy .Maybe that is even what happened in the times of our Gurus. It will not happen here.
As a reminder, although SPN does not endorse the point of view of a poster, SPN does have terms of service that require staying on topic and condemns statements that undermine Sikhism or the Sikh Gurus and their sacred texts. Comments can be deleted without warning. Continued infractions, chronic inability to represent Sikhism with respect, and refusal to heed admin requests leads to suspension of privileges on this network. All that was gained by the discussion and picture posting of Sri Chand was to trivialize the serious inquiries of the OP.
Thanks
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Gobinda
SPNer
- Nov 19, 2013
- 6
- 31
Luckysingh: Thank you for further historic knowledge. I can understand the distinction that Guruji wanted to make between His Sikhs and the others. Yes, you are correct, my dreadlocks are clean and well kept. I decided to style my hair with dreadlocks out of practicality, ease, and health of my hair. My decision had nothing to do with renunciation or being a follower of Shiva or any other. I also have no issues with declaring that these dreadlocks are for the ease of keeping kesh inline with Hukam, and or course I will keep kanga as well I will wear a turban, so not many will even know they are there. You have hit a great point on the head, ignore those holy rollers and continue as planned. And this is what I shall do, which nowadays means gathering up the remaining 5Ks on my to buy list
Harry Holler: I've been studying with Sikhi for almost a year now. I have walked many different religious paths and lived in different countries in search of such connection. In many ways, this is the end for me So along this train of thought, I have found Satguru and now by Guruji's kirpa I want to give my head. Shortcomings will always remain. What I do with them or in spite of them is the focus. I don't think I will ever feel worthy or completely ready, of such a grace as Pahul. Ultimately, my emotional feelings are of no great consequence in this regard. It is my turn and I want to play....
Kggr: Becoming apart of the Khalsa via Pahul is about much more then being pure or the roop. Now those two are for sure apart of it, but it is the act of giving one's head and following Hukam that is essential. Guruji Himself also took part of the ceremony, which gives an indication of the importance of the ceremony. He goes from Gobind Rai to Gobind Singh, along with His Sikhs. The roop of the Khalsa also has great significance. The Shadeedi of Sir Guru Teg Bahadur Ji, the father of Sir Guru Gobind Signh Ji, is why we have the roop. Fascinating read, google it! There is much, for lack of a better word, theology found within the Pahul.
I do not believe that having dreadlocks will place me outside of Guruji's kirpa. My question is more along the lines of, will I be refused by the Panj and denied Pahul because my kesh is dreadlocks (therefore out of bounds with rehat.) It hadn't crossed my mind that my hair could possibly be a barrier until now, after listening to a lecture.
Kamila: I do agree dirty hair would not be a good thing Have no fear, my hair is always fresh&clean. I take great joy in creating my own shampoo/conditioners&oils. The babes are well cared for and grow like dazed weeds. And yes, I do think greater things are of more importance, and deserve even greater thought than dreadlocks.
Gyani Jarnail Singh: That is a great lesson, using the correct name! One that must be remembered! Thank you for sharing it here! Yeah, I do believe we will slip further before we rise. Hopefully not too much further.
I will wear a turban, so not many will even know they are there. You have hit a great point on the head, ignore those holy rollers and continue as planned. And this is what I shall do, which nowadays means gathering up the remaining 5Ks on my to buy list Harry Holler: I've been studying with Sikhi for almost a year now. I have walked many different religious paths and lived in different countries in search of such connection. In many ways, this is the end for me
So along this train of thought, I have found Satguru and now by Guruji's kirpa I want to give my head. Shortcomings will always remain. What I do with them or in spite of them is the focus. I don't think I will ever feel worthy or completely ready, of such a grace as Pahul. Ultimately, my emotional feelings are of no great consequence in this regard. It is my turn and I want to play....Kggr: Becoming apart of the Khalsa via Pahul is about much more then being pure or the roop. Now those two are for sure apart of it, but it is the act of giving one's head and following Hukam that is essential. Guruji Himself also took part of the ceremony, which gives an indication of the importance of the ceremony. He goes from Gobind Rai to Gobind Singh, along with His Sikhs. The roop of the Khalsa also has great significance. The Shadeedi of Sir Guru Teg Bahadur Ji, the father of Sir Guru Gobind Signh Ji, is why we have the roop. Fascinating read, google it! There is much, for lack of a better word, theology found within the Pahul.
I do not believe that having dreadlocks will place me outside of Guruji's kirpa. My question is more along the lines of, will I be refused by the Panj and denied Pahul because my kesh is dreadlocks (therefore out of bounds with rehat.) It hadn't crossed my mind that my hair could possibly be a barrier until now, after listening to a lecture.
Kamila: I do agree dirty hair would not be a good thing
Have no fear, my hair is always fresh&clean. I take great joy in creating my own shampoo/conditioners&oils. The babes are well cared for and grow like dazed weeds. And yes, I do think greater things are of more importance, and deserve even greater thought than dreadlocks.Gyani Jarnail Singh: That is a great lesson, using the correct name! One that must be remembered! Thank you for sharing it here! Yeah, I do believe we will slip further before we rise. Hopefully not too much further.
The Punj never actually take hold of your hair and comb it or soemthing...what they do is just EXPOSE the Top of the HEAD and sprinkle the Pahul there five times while you say the FATEH after them....so dreadlocks covered with dastaar/Patka would get the same treatment...no problem.
- Jul 11, 2012
- 274
- 640
- 62
Gobinda ji,
I feel you when you speak of arriving at the Door. Sister, I don't know where you plan to seek Pahul; will it be in India? If so, be prepared for some funny looks. In Punjab one doesn't encounter so many foreigners, especially from other races, so what is just bafflement or curiosity may be misinterpreted as rudeness. Please don't let that put you off; the love of the people is genuine and sincere.
In Pahul ceremony, you should be asked the open dashtar a bit to allow Amrit to fall on the head; one needn't uncover more than a bit, so locks ought not be an issue, or even noticed. If you think it may be an issue, you may also approach a piyare before the ceremony, to avoid potential awkwardness at the moment.
To the community: if I've stated anything wrong, please I stand to be corrected.
Gobinda ji, in the Bible (Deut 28:2) there is a passage: "And ...blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, because you obey the voice of the Lord". It sounds like you are indeed being led by the bani of Guru; blessings on the journey.
ਬਹੁਤੁ ਦੁਆਰੇ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਆਇਆ ॥
After wandering around at so many doors, I have come to Yours, O Lord.
ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੇ ਤੁਮ ਸਰਣਾਇਆ ॥
By Your Grace, I have entered Your Sanctuary.
I feel you when you speak of arriving at the Door. Sister, I don't know where you plan to seek Pahul; will it be in India? If so, be prepared for some funny looks. In Punjab one doesn't encounter so many foreigners, especially from other races, so what is just bafflement or curiosity may be misinterpreted as rudeness. Please don't let that put you off; the love of the people is genuine and sincere.
In Pahul ceremony, you should be asked the open dashtar a bit to allow Amrit to fall on the head; one needn't uncover more than a bit, so locks ought not be an issue, or even noticed. If you think it may be an issue, you may also approach a piyare before the ceremony, to avoid potential awkwardness at the moment.
To the community: if I've stated anything wrong, please I stand to be corrected.
Gobinda ji, in the Bible (Deut 28:2) there is a passage: "And ...blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, because you obey the voice of the Lord". It sounds like you are indeed being led by the bani of Guru; blessings on the journey.
ਬਹੁਤੁ ਦੁਆਰੇ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਆਇਆ ॥
After wandering around at so many doors, I have come to Yours, O Lord.
ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੇ ਤੁਮ ਸਰਣਾਇਆ ॥
By Your Grace, I have entered Your Sanctuary.
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- Jul 11, 2012
- 274
- 640
- 62
Sorry, is Maru Mehl 5:14
ਬਹੁਤੁ ਦੁਆਰੇ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਆਇਆ ॥
After wandering around at so many doors, I have come to Yours, O Lord.
ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੇ ਤੁਮ ਸਰਣਾਇਆ ॥
By Your Grace, I have entered Your Sanctuary.
ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਸੰਤਹ ਸੰਗਿ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਏਹੁ ਨਾਮ ਦਾਨੁ ਦੇਵਾਇਣਾ ॥੧੪॥
Forever and ever, keep me in the Company of the Saints; please bless me with this Gift of Your Name. ||14||
ਬਹੁਤੁ ਦੁਆਰੇ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਆਇਆ ॥
After wandering around at so many doors, I have come to Yours, O Lord.
ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੇ ਤੁਮ ਸਰਣਾਇਆ ॥
By Your Grace, I have entered Your Sanctuary.
ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਸੰਤਹ ਸੰਗਿ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਏਹੁ ਨਾਮ ਦਾਨੁ ਦੇਵਾਇਣਾ ॥੧੪॥
Forever and ever, keep me in the Company of the Saints; please bless me with this Gift of Your Name. ||14||
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Gobinda
SPNer
- Nov 19, 2013
- 6
- 31
Gyani Jarnail Singh: Yeah, I thought the same thing before listening to the lecture and reading the caption, no dreadlocks. Hopefully, I'm just overreacting to the initial introduction of what is possibly the view of dreadlocks within Sikhi.
Ishna: There many styles one can wear with dreadlocks, while wrapping a turban. There are also many factors to be taken into consideration. Like thickness, quantity, and length. My dreadlocks are at bra-strap length and thickness has been lessened with quantity. So I have a fair amount of pencil sized dreadlocks, and a few maker sized ones.
I simply make a rishi knot (now this knot when wrapped loosely is bigger, and when wrapped tightly is smaller) at the crown, now this does become a very nice sized knot. I don't need any extra padding. After that point, I wrap a simple woman's house turban (for now, I'm new to wrapping turbans. I will branch out) However, I believe the typical 3HO (woman) turban styled will also wrap nicely with my dreadlocks and may be the best bet for Pahul. And yes, dumallah would also be a great choice for dreadlocks and those who have a lot of heavy thick hair. I think the key points when wrapping such hair as above is to have a generous amount of fabric, 5 meters at the minimum, and to be innovative in creating new methods of wrapping. And also open to making modifications to other traditional wraps/turbans to create your own. I have been inspired by other traditional headcovers: Jewish, Muslim, and various African cultures. A little bit of this and a little bit of that, and bam a turban made to fit my kesh. If worried of being mistaken for another, pin a Khanda atop the turban.
Brother Onam: I had a feeling you would understand I plan to receive Pahul in my hometown of Austin, TX. Although, it could happen in San Antonio. I do have plans to visit India, so thank you for the heads up.
Nice Biblical verse, and thank you for the blessings. That has been the most repeated advice, to speak to the Panj before Pahul if I think it an issue. So I will take it and do just that before the ceremony.
I thank you all for the replies, support, and further knowledge. Sat Siri Akaal!
Ishna: There many styles one can wear with dreadlocks, while wrapping a turban. There are also many factors to be taken into consideration. Like thickness, quantity, and length. My dreadlocks are at bra-strap length and thickness has been lessened with quantity. So I have a fair amount of pencil sized dreadlocks, and a few maker sized ones.
I simply make a rishi knot (now this knot when wrapped loosely is bigger, and when wrapped tightly is smaller) at the crown, now this does become a very nice sized knot. I don't need any extra padding. After that point, I wrap a simple woman's house turban (for now, I'm new to wrapping turbans. I will branch out) However, I believe the typical 3HO (woman) turban styled will also wrap nicely with my dreadlocks and may be the best bet for Pahul. And yes, dumallah would also be a great choice for dreadlocks and those who have a lot of heavy thick hair. I think the key points when wrapping such hair as above is to have a generous amount of fabric, 5 meters at the minimum, and to be innovative in creating new methods of wrapping. And also open to making modifications to other traditional wraps/turbans to create your own. I have been inspired by other traditional headcovers: Jewish, Muslim, and various African cultures. A little bit of this and a little bit of that, and bam a turban made to fit my kesh. If worried of being mistaken for another, pin a Khanda atop the turban.
Brother Onam: I had a feeling you would understand
I plan to receive Pahul in my hometown of Austin, TX. Although, it could happen in San Antonio. I do have plans to visit India, so thank you for the heads up.Nice Biblical verse, and thank you for the blessings. That has been the most repeated advice, to speak to the Panj before Pahul if I think it an issue. So I will take it and do just that before the ceremony.
I thank you all for the replies, support, and further knowledge. Sat Siri Akaal!
- Jul 11, 2012
- 274
- 640
- 62
SPNAdmin, please, I was mentioning to Gobinda about Black Sikhs in India. My brother, Daya Singh, has just moved to Punjab with his wife and daughter; the only African Sikhs they've ever seen. And they are embraced with full love and warmth.
He just sent me this photo, and I hoped to include it in the forum. If you believe this is the wrong thread, please feel free to repost it elsewhere; hopefully where Gobinda might see it.
Sat Sri Akal to all, Onam
He just sent me this photo, and I hoped to include it in the forum. If you believe this is the wrong thread, please feel free to repost it elsewhere; hopefully where Gobinda might see it.
Sat Sri Akal to all, Onam
Attachments
I wanted to use this picture as the header for the thread and move the thread to the spotlight. Then I realized that dreadlocks do not equal black sikhs and black sikhs do not equal dreadlocks. So I was stumped. The photo is stupendous, absolutely riveting in its emotional tone. A mixture of chardi kala, good humor, confidence and strength.
So now I am think we should start a thread that lives up to the photo. Usually one picks a photo for a thread. This time we need to pick a topic for the photo. So much applies, and it all has to be uplifting.
So now I am think we should start a thread that lives up to the photo. Usually one picks a photo for a thread. This time we need to pick a topic for the photo. So much applies, and it all has to be uplifting.
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