Lessons From God - What Happens When We Die? - Where Could We Go? - What Is Attachment & Detachment?

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Kanwaljit Singh ji...any idea how a BRAND NEW Chick of a stork..BORN in SIBERIA....naturally knows the way to fly THOUSANDS of miles to MALAYSIA....each year ?? How a SALMON knows just where to RETURN to breed...million miles away...and then GO BACK to live out its life a million miles away from its BIRTH PLACE...

That KNOWLEDGE is in the GENES..passed ON from Generation to generation..
HUMANS also pass on KNOWLEDGE...we TRAIN our NEXT JOON while alive..our children are our JOON...if a SANT breeds a CHOR....as his son...the sant has failed..and its HIS PUNISHMENT to see his son languish in jail for theft..and die with that thought...??? a thought ???
Tomorrow i will post an interesting article on this..

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

The highlighted line in the post tells how Karma can be useless if Guru doesn't approve in the end game!

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥ Siree Raag, Fourth Mehl:
ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵਾ ਗੁਣ ਵਿਥਰਾ ਗੁਣ ਬੋਲੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਇ ॥ I sing His Glories, I describe His Glories, I speak of His Glories, O my mother.
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਜਣੁ ਗੁਣਕਾਰੀਆ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਜਣ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇ ॥ The Gurmukhs, my spiritual friends, bestow virtue. Meeting with my spiritual friends, I sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord.
ਹੀਰੈ ਹੀਰੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਬੇਧਿਆ ਰੰਗਿ ਚਲੂਲੈ ਨਾਇ ॥੧॥ The Diamond of the Guru has pierced the diamond of my mind, which is now dyed in the deep crimson color of the Name. ||1||
ਮੇਰੇ ਗੋਵਿੰਦਾ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵਾ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਿ ਮਨਿ ਹੋਇ ॥ O my Lord of the Universe, singing Your Glorious Praises, my mind is satisfied.
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਪਿਆਸ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਤੁਸਿ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Within me is the thirst for the Lord's Name; may the Guru, in His Pleasure, grant it to me. ||1||Pause||
ਮਨੁ ਰੰਗਹੁ ਵਡਭਾਗੀਹੋ ਗੁਰੁ ਤੁਠਾ ਕਰੇ ਪਸਾਉ ॥ Let your minds be imbued with His Love, O blessed and fortunate ones. By His Pleasure, the Guru bestows His Gifts.
ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਏ ਰੰਗ ਸਿਉ ਹਉ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ ॥ The Guru has lovingly implanted the Naam, the Name of the Lord, within me; I am a sacrifice to the True Guru.
ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਲਭਈ ਲਖ ਕੋਟੀ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਉ ॥੨॥ Without the True Guru, the Name of the Lord is not found, even though people may perform hundreds of thousands, even millions of rituals. ||2||
ਬਿਨੁ ਭਾਗਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਨਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਘਰਿ ਬੈਠਿਆ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਨਿਤ ਪਾਸਿ ॥ Without destiny, the True Guru is not found, even though He sits within the home of our own inner being, always near and close at hand.
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਅਗਿਆਨ ਦੁਖੁ ਭਰਮੁ ਹੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਪੜਦਾ ਦੂਰਿ ਪਈਆਸਿ ॥ There is ignorance within, and the pain of doubt, like a separating screen.
ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭੇਟੇ ਕੰਚਨੁ ਨਾ ਥੀਐ ਮਨਮੁਖੁ ਲੋਹੁ ਬੂਡਾ ਬੇੜੀ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੩॥ Without meeting with the True Guru, no one is transformed into gold. The self-willed manmukh sinks like iron, while the boat is very close. ||3||
ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਬੋਹਿਥੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਵ ਹੈ ਕਿਤੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਚੜਿਆ ਜਾਇ ॥ The Boat of the True Guru is the Name of the Lord. How can we climb on board?
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਭਾਣੈ ਜੋ ਚਲੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਬੋਹਿਥ ਬੈਠਾ ਆਇ ॥ One who walks in harmony with the True Guru's Will comes to sit in this Boat.
ਧੰਨੁ ਧੰਨੁ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜਿਨਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਲਏ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥੪॥੩॥੬੭॥ Blessed, blessed are those very fortunate ones, O Nanak, who are united with the Lord through the True Guru. ||4||3||67||

 

[Manni Singh 85]

Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji. Sat Sri Akal. Could you please clearify that if such souls ghosts etc etc exist through gurbani ? Please. Dhanwad

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

in Sikhism God has no form, no light shows, no large TV

Veer Ji God created the very first Plasma 3d projection Tv. (Tv=thought vista)

It comes with a 6 Billion year warranty.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Why 6 billion year warranty?

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Veera first law of warranties is that they only last half as long as the Universal T.v.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Well we don't know how long the Universal Tv is going to last.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Veera relax our shows will be cancelled much before that Tv,anyway it does not end, the viewer just loses the remote control .

 

[Manni Singh 85]

Bhagat Singh Ji. SSA. You are 100% percent right about meditation. I know someone who have had the darshans. And that person meditate lot. And that what sant maskeen ji says in all of his kathas. Thank you ji

 

[BhagatSingh]

Spji, The viewer thinks he has a remote control. The illusion is so strong it's not even funny. When you meditate and "lose" that remote control, you die while you are still alive. The 'you' who thinks he has control dies. Reminds me of that shabad by Guru Arjan Dev ji that LuckySingh ji and I discussed on that other thread Hindu Sikh identity.

"Dieing while you are still alive" has to be the wackiest thing I have ever heard. But it makes so much sense when you actually do it. icecreammunda You may not stay dead for long but at least you get a glimpse into what Gurus are talking about and what you gotta practice doing.

"So Bhagat what did you do over the study week break?"
"You know... the usual... I practiced dieing every now and then."
"Oh like for a suicide bombing mission?" *nudge nudge* :grinningsingh:
"..uh..." lol

Manni Singh ji, yeah it seems there has been a disconnect between the ancient traditions and the modern generation. A lack of understanding of what meditation is. I am just trying to bridge that gap through any medium/language available. I am working on some art as well. Martyrs are great for promoting meditation. Guru Arjan Dev ji on a hot plate completely "chill", totally relaxed,
Bhai Taru Singh as he gets his scalp chiseled off, immersed in the transcendent reality, etc.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Ambarsaria ji,

However I read your posts with great interest and genuine desire to understand.

I am glad you do so. Keep up the effort.

"you cannot be the judge and jury at the same time"
I don't know what the phrase means. I tried looking it up but didn't find anything.

I am actually not talking about hallucinations or darshans in posts where I didn't mention them. Can you see "Dieing while you are still alive" as something other than a hallucination? Think about what it could be.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Ambarsaria ji,

I am glad you do so. Keep up the effort.

"you cannot be the judge and jury at the same time"
I don't know what the phrase means. I tried looking it up but didn't find anything.
Bhagat Singh veer ji the phrase relates to the trial by Jury. The judges instruct the "Juries", usually set number of people from the community without pre-established bias for a case in court.

• Judges Instruct Juries as,
  • So basically judge lays out the facts of the case (evidence allowed)
    • Admissible and inadmissible evidence is clarified
    • Jury left with evidence they can deliberate up
  • Law guiding the case
    • Provide Laws applicable to the case
  • Instrcut the Jury to come back with a decision to the court
• Juries based on the evidence and Law identified do,
  • Deliberations
  • Discuss and come to a decision
  • Decision is conveyed to the Court and Announced in the court
• Judges detemine sentences or acquittal based on Jury decision

So the phrase releates to conflicts when "one sets the rulee" and "also decides on the outcome" based on these rules.

It is called biased and inappropriate process.

I am actually not talking about hallucinations or darshans in posts where I didn't mention them. Can you see "Dieing while you are still alive" as something other than a hallucination? Think about what it could be.

• Veer the issue is you are defining "Dieing" so you set the parameters around it.
• You are also defining "Living" and the parameters around it.
• So the combo of "Dieing while you are still alive" is very personal unless fully described in detail.
• I can see certain ways it is plausible to a limited degree but as a generic paradigm that can be simply understood if one knew what is meant by "Death" versus "Living", the answer is "NO", I cannot see.

• Let me know if any questions or comments.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[amarjit singh bamrah]

Dying while you are still alive.
means when you eneter deep Samadhi and seperate your senses you die while living.

Means being immersed in God's name all the time
and having no attachments

With learning to become Detached we
Die while we live.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Dying while you are still alive.
means when you eneter deep Samadhi and seperate your senses you die while living.

Means being immersed in God's name all the time
and having no attachments

With learning to become Detached we
Die while we live.

Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji thanks for your post.

The issue with the logic of your post and perhaps Bhagat Singh ji's too is that you are arbitrarily redifining the definition of "Life" and "Death". Death is cessation of Life that 99.9999+% of the world understands. Death state cannot revert back to Life state to where it was before death occurred. If it did it simply will mean that the declaration of death was false.

Using the words like death and Living is erroneous. If you mean getting to forget your conscious or detaching from it while awake that is a different item. Confusing awake and in Samadhi/Trans with "Life" and "Death/Dieing" is highly illogical.

Sat Sri Akal. mundahug

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

The illusion is so strong it's not even funny

Veera thats because it's very High Definition,Gods Tv makes Blu Ray look like silent movies.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Haha Ambarsaria ji,
Using definitions is good but some things cannot be conveyed so the conveyor looks for words and assembles them to convey the reality. Guru Sahib are trying to convey something when they say "Die while remaining alive".
They say when one one dies while remaining alive one:
-has the Lord enshrined in his mind
-understands God's will
-has no ego
-is liberated while still being alive
-is not reborn again
etc

Death is the cessation of life. If you think life is one way and after some experience you realize that was not life. This is also death. Death of life as you knew it. At this point you are still alive.

We are looking at death from the point of view of the individual. What happens?
1. Amarjit Singh ji mentions withdrawal of senses
ਪੰਚ ਪਹਰੂਆ ਦਰ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਨਹੀ ਪਤੀਆਰਾ ॥
पंच पहरूआ दर महि रहते तिन का नही पतीआरा ॥
Pancẖ pahrū▫ā ḏar mėh rahṯe ṯin kā nahī paṯī▫ārā.
The five senses stand as guards at the gate, but now can they be trusted?

ਚੇਤਿ ਸੁਚੇਤ ਚਿਤ ਹੋਇ ਰਹੁ ਤਉ ਲੈ ਪਰਗਾਸੁ ਉਜਾਰਾ ॥੨॥
चेति सुचेत चित होइ रहु तउ लै परगासु उजारा ॥२॥
Cẖeṯ sucẖeṯ cẖiṯ ho▫e rahu ṯa▫o lai pargās ujārā. ||2||
When you are conscious in your consciousness (definition of smadhi), you shall be enlightened and illuminated. ||2||

ਨਉ ਘਰ ਦੇਖਿ ਜੁ ਕਾਮਨਿ ਭੂਲੀ ਬਸਤੁ ਅਨੂਪ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥
नउ घर देखि जु कामनि भूली बसतु अनूप न पाई ॥
Na▫o gẖar ḏekẖ jo kāman bẖūlī basaṯ anūp na pā▫ī.
Seeing the nine openings of the body, the soul-bride is led astray; she does not obtain that incomparable thing.

ਕਹਤੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਨਵੈ ਘਰ ਮੂਸੇ ਦਸਵੈਂ ਤਤੁ ਸਮਾਈ ॥੩॥੨੨॥੭੩॥
कहतु कबीर नवै घर मूसे दसवैं ततु समाई ॥३॥२२॥७३॥
Kahaṯ Kabīr navai gẖar mūse ḏasvaiʼn ṯaṯ samā▫ī. ||3||22||73||
Says Kabeer, the nine openings of the body are being plundered; rise up to the Tenth Gate, and discover the true essence. ||3||22||73||

page 339

2. Nothing belongs to the individual anymore
ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਤੂੰ ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨਹਿ ਤੇ ਪਾਹੁਨ ਦੋ ਦਾਹਾ ॥
जिस नो तूं असथिरु करि मानहि ते पाहुन दो दाहा ॥
Jis no ṯūʼn asthir kar mānėh ṯe pāhun ḏo ḏāhā.
That which you believe to be permanent, is a guest here for only a few days.

ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਕਲਤ੍ਰ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਸਗਲ ਸਮਗ੍ਰੀ ਸਭ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਅਸਨਾਹਾ ॥੧॥
पुत्र कलत्र ग्रिह सगल समग्री सभ मिथिआ असनाहा ॥१॥
Puṯar kalṯar garih sagal samagrī sabẖ mithi▫ā asnāhā. ||1||
Children, wives, homes, and all possessions - attachment to all of these is false. ||1||

ਰੇ ਮਨ ਕਿਆ ਕਰਹਿ ਹੈ ਹਾ ਹਾ ॥
रे मन किआ करहि है हा हा ॥
Re man ki▫ā karahi hai hā hā.
O mind, why do you burst out laughing?

ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਦੇਖੁ ਜੈਸੇ ਹਰਿਚੰਦਉਰੀ ਇਕੁ ਰਾਮ ਭਜਨੁ ਲੈ ਲਾਹਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
द्रिसटि देखु जैसे हरिचंदउरी इकु राम भजनु लै लाहा ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ḏarisat ḏekẖ jaise haricẖanḏ▫urī ik rām bẖajan lai lāhā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
See with your eyes, that these things are only mirages. So earn the profit of meditation on the One Lord. ||1||Pause||
page 402

3. The individual has no friends, no strangers, no enemies.
ਬੈਰੀ ਮੀਤ ਹੋਏ ਸੰਮਾਨ ॥
बैरी मीत होए समान ॥
Bairī mīṯ ho▫e sammān.
Enemy and friend are all the same to me.

ਸਰਬ ਮਹਿ ਪੂਰਨ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥
सरब महि पूरन भगवान ॥
Sarab mėh pūran bẖagvān.
The Perfect Lord God is permeating all.

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਆਗਿਆ ਮਾਨਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
प्रभ की आगिआ मानि सुखु पाइआ ॥
Parabẖ kī āgi▫ā mān sukẖ pā▫i▫ā.
Accepting the Will of God, I have found peace.

ਗੁਰਿ ਪੂਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ ॥੩॥
गुरि पूरै हरि नामु द्रिड़ाइआ ॥३॥
Gur pūrai har nām driṛ▫ā▫i▫ā. ||3||
The Perfect Guru has implanted the Name of the Lord within me. ||3||
page 1147

ETC

 

[Ambarsaria]

Bhagat Sing ji fundamental flaw that I raised with you in an other thread persists and actually got stronger.

Haha Ambarsaria ji,
Using definitions is good but some things cannot be conveyed so the conveyor looks for words and assembles them to convey the reality.....

We are looking at death from the point of view of the individual. What happens?
1. Amarjit Singh ji mentions withdrawal of senses
Pray tell who is the judge and jury that you have withdrawn the senses!

2. Nothing belongs to me anymore
Pray tell who is the judge and jury that you have given up all!

3. I have no friends, no strangers, no enemies.
Pray tell who is the judge and jury that you don't differentiate between friends, strangers and enemies!

ETC
Pray tell who is the judge and jury that you have ETC ETC! lol

Your logic and argument belies you every step of the way and so called ideal states are not possible, nor to be sought, in by as objectives. Logic is hard and the ultimate test of truth and you cannot weazle your way around it.

Sikhism is living with and not living without.

Sat Sri Akal. mundahug

 

[BhagatSingh]

You are, Ambarsaria ji. You can do it. I believe in you. :grinningsingh: You have to trust yourself to judge e.g whether you see attachments as transient and false. I think it is possible when you develop the kind of mind-set that keeps an eye on your actions. An ideal is what you measure yourself against, in order to see your progress. This is the way to learn from a book. The book sets standards which you measure yourself against. If it was a human Guru then it would be different.

Now of course ideals are hard to obtain just like it's super hard to get 100% on a test but you can crudely measure your progress by seeing how far you are from 100%. The idea is to be the best you can be whilst striving to be better.

PS Logic is part of Truth not a test of it or the Truth itself.

 

[Ambarsaria]

You are, Ambarsaria ji. You can do it. I believe in you. :grinningsingh:
..............

Now of course ideals are hard to obtain just like it's super hard to get 100% on a test but you can crudely measure your progress by seeing how far you are from 100%. The idea is to be the best you can be whilst striving to be better.

Brother very simple Sikhism is. Gurbani keeps telling about the futility of seeking, defining or striving for 100%. It appears that our fascination never gives up. If we are not going to listen to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji what are my chances with you or any other friends and others who may think of me as a for. I suppose only way to do it is spend all your life doing it and regret at the last moment that you put and assigned yourself wrong objectives for life. The beauty is that is what creation is all about.

PS Logic is part of Truth not a test of it or the Truth itself.

Brother that is exactly what I said perhaps not the way you are used to reading it. No problem here either as we are all different.

No problems, you go your way and I go mine.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

Lessons about life and death best captured!

Teri Duniya Me Dil _ Mukesh in Bawre Nain - YouTube