Maintaining Our Culture

[clarkejoey]

"As far cooking and keeping house is concerned there is no sikh way in these things at all."

Sure there is: keep house with an extra room for Guru, keep house in such a way as to wake up at 3 a.m., and as for cooking... there's a thread here called "fools who wrangle over flesh" that says there IS a sikh way to cook, or at any rate, a non-sikh way to cook.

Culture, frankly, is everything you do in your lifestyle, and if as amarsanghera says: "sikhi is your inner belief set which influences your lifestyle," then all that you do will flow from your belief set into your life, into your culture! Perhaps this is a difficulty of semantics.

kds ji, i must clarify: is it technically ok to worship with shabads in, say, reggae? provided the music is respectful to the material? Is it valid worship to sing kirtan in, say, english? This is only a part of my question. It's been busy in my corner, i hope i'm not rushing, and i do mean to ask a good solid question real soon. In the mean time...

I discovered that on Nov 24 we were celebrating "Guru Nanak Dev ji Prakash Utsav". But the place where i found it (You were Blocked) only discussed the dear Guru, without telling me what a Prakash Utsav is. Let me be clear: i love that particular site, it's very informative, but i find that many writers/webmasters take a lot for granted.

NOTE - not throwing stones at anybody!

This is the sort of thing that leaves me a little confused, feeling that if i don't know the language, i can't share the festivity.

 

[kds1980]

Sure there is: keep house with an extra room for Guru, keep house in such a way as to wake up at 3 a.m.,

Well it is for people who want to keep guru granth sahib in their house.more than 90%
of sikhs don't have guru granth sahib in their house.Moreover any one can keep guru granth sahib in parts and there is no need for extra room or waking up at 3 A.M.

there's a thread here called "fools who wrangle over flesh" that says there IS a sikh way to cook, or at any rate, a non-sikh way to cook.

Meat is a separate issue.At present there is only 1 restriction and that is not to eat halal.
You will find this issue whether to eat meat or not in many religions.

kds ji, i must clarify: is it technically ok to worship with shabads in, say, reggae? provided the music is respectful to the material? Is it valid worship to sing kirtan in, say, english? This is only a part of my question. It's been busy in my corner, i hope i'm not rushing, and i do mean to ask a good solid question real soon. In the mean time

If you ask me then i beleive there is nothing wrong in it.Our guru's accepted many languages.if someone sing hymns in english with spiritual music there is nothing wrong in it.

I discovered that on Nov 24 we were celebrating "Guru Nanak Dev ji Prakash Utsav". But the place where i found it (You were Blocked) only discussed the dear Guru, without telling me what a Prakash Utsav is. Let me be clear: i love that particular site, it's very informative, but i find that many writers/webmasters take a lot for granted.

I already told you that majority of sikhs are punjabi so they create article with indian words forgetting That non indian could also be sikhs.

 

[Archived_Member1]

kds ji, i must clarify: is it technically ok to worship with shabads in, say, reggae? provided the music is respectful to the material? Is it valid worship to sing kirtan in, say, english? This is only a part of my question. It's been busy in my corner, i hope i'm not rushing, and i do mean to ask a good solid question real soon. In the mean time...

you can sing shabads to whatever music you can play. you can also sing them in english. personally, i enjoy it when people mix the two- singing in the original language then repeating it in english. check out Gurbani Music, Shabd Kirtan, Sikh stories and videos, MP3 files and more and click "western shabads" for a nice selection.

one caveat: if you're singing in front of Guru Granth Sahib ji, please only sing from Gurbani or the vaars Bhai Gurdas ji. everything else is "kachee bani" and is not acceptable. it's ok to sing non-gurbani in other places, but in front of Guru it's strictly a no-no.

 

[spnadmin]

clarkejoey ji,

How I identify with your state of mind. It is hard to learn all there is to learn as fast as you want to. It takes time to fill in all the details and get all of the nuances too.

What helps? Learning about Sikhism in a forum will teach you how many points of view are part of Sikhi. But facts and opinions get inter-mingled. It is better to read information in non-forum sites. Then when you are in a forum you are in a better position to judge what you read. Sikhism is actually very diverse. Using vegetarianism as an example -- yes, there are individuals and sects of Sikhism that practice vegetarianism as a matter of faith. But you have to read a lot to figure who and where they are.

Forums are rambunctious places -- which is why they are so enjoyable. This is particularly true for all forums with religious content and not just SPN. Religion is a very emotional topic.

Kelley-kaur ji -- I have a question for you. Would you say a little more about kachi bani. Help me get to the bottom of this. When a raagi sings a raag from Gurbani on a CD is that kachi bani? Or am I getting mixed up about this. Thanks for any insight you can provide.

 

[Archived_Member1]

Kelley-kaur ji -- I have a question for you. Would you say a little more about kachi bani. Help me get to the bottom of this. When a raagi sings a raag from Gurbani on a CD is that kachi bani? Or am I getting mixed up about this. Thanks for any insight you can provide.

i've never heard anything about CDs being kachi bani... my understanding is only the words contained in the Guru Granth Sahib, the writings of Guru Gobind Singh ji, and Bhai Gurdas ji's vaars are Gurbani and may be recited in front of Guru Granth Sahib ji. everything else is kachi bani, and isn't allowed in Guru ji's presence.


the term Kachi Bani comes from the 24th pauree of Anand Sahib:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਿਨਾ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ॥
सतिगुरू बिना होर कची है बाणी ॥
Saṯgurū binā hor kacẖī hai baṇī.
Without the True Guru, other songs are false.
ਬਾਣੀ ਤ ਕਚੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥
बाणी त कची सतिगुरू बाझहु होर कची बाणी ॥
Baṇī ṯa kacẖī saṯgurū bājẖahu hor kacẖī baṇī.
The songs are false without the True Guru; all other songs are false.

ਕਹਦੇ ਕਚੇ ਸੁਣਦੇ ਕਚੇ ਕਚੀ ਆਖਿ ਵਖਾਣੀ ॥
कहदे कचे सुणदे कचे कचीं आखि वखाणी ॥
Kahḏė kacẖė suṇḏė kacẖė kacẖīʼn ākẖ vakẖāṇī.
The speakers are false, and the listeners are false; those who speak and recite are false.
ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਿਤ ਕਰਹਿ ਰਸਨਾ ਕਹਿਆ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ॥
हरि हरि नित करहि रसना कहिआ कछू न जाणी ॥
Har har niṯ karahi rasnā kahi­ā kacẖẖū na jāṇī.
They may continually chant, 'Har, Har' with their tongues, but they do not know what they are saying.

ਚਿਤੁ ਜਿਨ ਕਾ ਹਿਰਿ ਲਇਆ ਮਾਇਆ ਬੋਲਨਿ ਪਏ ਰਵਾਣੀ ॥
चितु जिन का हिरि लइआ माइआ बोलनि पए रवाणी ॥
Cẖiṯ jin kā hir la­i­ā mā­i­ā bolan pa­ė ravāṇī.
Their consciousness is lured by Maya; they are just reciting mechanically.

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥੨੪॥
कहै नानकु सतिगुरू बाझहु होर कची बाणी ॥२४॥
Kahai Nānak saṯgurū bājẖahu hor kacẖī baṇī. ||24||
Says Nanak, without the True Guru, other songs are false. ||24||

i hope that helps.

 

[spnadmin]

Thanks kelley_kaur ji

What you are saying was my original understanding. Then as other folks spoke about this I began to wonder -- well what is kachi bani anyway. So you have cleared this up for me.

 

[clarkejoey]

Sat nam

Thanks for answering, everyone; On the subject of language/style of shabads, i've actually heard/read both "aye" and "nay" to diversity. I think the official position is "aye" except before the Holy Guru, as kelly kaur ji says.

kdsji, i didn't mean for you to repeat yourself; i agree with your observation, ("majority of sikhs are punjabi so they create article with indian words forgetting That non indian could also be sikhs") but that's exactly the problem!

Truth is, while i find little cultural/linguistic obstacles a bit off-putting, it's only a little bit; i'm here as long as guru will have me. And, as aad ji says, it's only irritating because it feels like slowing me down. I continue to learn a lot just by lurking here... learning what goes and what does not. Coming here i have a sample of sikh diversity... may it grow more diverse (with Guru's grace)!

 

[kds1980]

kdsji, i didn't mean for you to repeat yourself; i agree with your observation, ("majority of sikhs are punjabi so they create article with indian words forgetting That non indian could also be sikhs") but that's exactly the problem!

I agree with it but every problem take's its time to solve.If more non punjabi's will embrace sikhism then this problem will gradually solve

also look at the language in which guru granth sahib is written
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The poetry of the Guru Granth is in itself a subject worthy of the highest consideration. The language principally employed is the language of the saints evolved during the medieval period-a language which, allowing for variations, still enjoyed wide currency in Northern India. Its appeal lay in its directness, energy and resilience. Based upon some of the local dialects, it was leavened with expressions from Sanskrit, Prakrit, Persian and Arabic.
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So if you beleive that for an average punjabi guru granth sahib is easy to understand then you are wrong.The language of guru granth sahib is complex for a common person.

The influence of culture on religion is not a new thing. in india european christian missionaries spread christianity so the influence western culture is more on them than an average indian.They talk more in english and wear western clothes compared to an average indian.

 

[clarkejoey]

So if you beleive that for an average punjabi guru granth sahib is easy to understand then you are wrong.The language of guru granth sahib is complex for a common person.

I believe no such thing! As far as i can make out, it is in the nature of spiritual literature to be difficult and ambiguous... probably one reason that folk are always arguing about what God means.

The influence of culture on religion is not a new thing. in india european christian missionaries spread christianity so the influence western culture is more on them than an average indian.They talk more in english and wear western clothes compared to an average indian.

What you are describing is so true, and applies to just about every religion. In Judaism, you encounter special terms in Hebrew, in Rasta you find a tendency towards things African - or neo-African - and these things are sometimes doctrine, sometimes tradition, and sometimes just personal preference disguised as doctrine. In my wanderings, the only religion that seems culturally (almost) neutral is Bahai' ... however, this leaves them a little bland, to my tastes.

Perhaps the lesson is that it's important to embrace your faith's origin, while also accepting your own origin. I suspect that the art is in balancing the two.

 

[Sikh80]

I think the question primarily boils down if we have to make sikhi more popular then what are the measures that are avaialble with us. In india which the fountain head of Sikhi and where more than 90 percent of the population of sikh resides we do not have any specific previlige of being a sikh.
Infact sikhs do not have rights of a normal citizen. Sikhs are not recognised as sikhs as per the constitution of India. This has been stated in some of the posts that I had the chance to go thru. A sikh is treated as any Hindu or jain or any other person practicising faith.

Of what use is the spreading a religion whose captains [SGPC] are sleeping for last 60 years. No action has been taken. Sikhs with just over 2.50 percent of the population there and are not treated as minoroity class while Muslims who are about 20-25 percent are considered as a minority class. They enjoy the benefits of minority and get their HAj subsidised from the Indian Government.
Psh, sikhs have nothing much to say except find solutions on the net. Even 'Titler' has been given clean chit for his involvement in 1984 riots, though sikhs know about his role in the riots. Do we have any central body worth the salt to represent us ? No , we do not have anything favoring sikhs.Can you count more than 5 sikhs who have made it to the top here as per international media.

Let us make our house clean first.

Submitted for perusal.